View Full Version : Drag racing at Byron - Matt v. the Street Arsenal car, round 1...
mfuller
09-09-2002, 09:04 AM
Okay, first of all, this is not a racing story, even though it involves drag racing.
Steve (FastSteve) and I were at Byron Dragway this past weekend and were curious about how much his SA-fortified motor has helped. As some of you recall, Steve ran very quickly at Milan for GAP '02 (he was 3-for-3 against SC'd cars), but we were unable to get any times. So, Steve and I lined up (only once) at Byron on Saturday, a beatiful (but rather hot) day. Here are the results - Steve is car #61; I am car #70
Car # 70.................61
R/T .841---------- .664
60' 2.265-------- 2.445
330' 6.443-------- 6.515
1/8 9.913-------- 9.835
MPH 71.57-------- 74.28
1000' 12.868-------12.692
1/4 15.406-------15.216
MPH 88.24-------- 87.19
Conclusion? Something is amiss. He should have obliterated me, but it was closer than either of us had though it would be.
Analysis: Okay, Steve had a better R/T than me, but that's no shocker (R/T doesn't figure into ET, anyway). Even though I had a .2 advantage in 60' and a stronger 330' (probably due to my stickier tires - Potenza S-03's v. his BFG g-force T/A KDW), he was gaining fast. Obviously, Steve's car with his SA motor has a killer mid-range. He is almost .1 ahead by the 1/8 mark, but look at his speed - almost 3mph faster! But then he started to fade a bit. He was still ahead at the 1000' mark, but not as much as you'd think. By the end, he still beat my by just under 2 tenths (which I expected he would), but look at the trap speed - he is over 1mph slower! I could tell because near the end I was very slowly creeeping up on him.
Clearly, the Street Arsenal car was not running as strong today as it was in Milan.
But wait, let's try to even the playing field a bit more. Steve's car has a gearing advantage - his 3.29 final drive to my 3.05. He can also claim a weight advantage - he doesn't have heavy front brakes, 17" wheels, heavier swaybars, or strut tower braces. While this doesn't seem like much, it's probably enough for a good 60lbs. Also, Steve had removed his front-passenger seat and I didn't - another 35lbs. or so (we both had removed the spare tire and jack from our trunks).
We think his car may have a fuel problem (he does have a FPR, but I have an ASE chip to his stock PCM), or maybe his stock airbox is still holding him back (I have a CAI). Also, I am using a Random Technology downpipe/cat, while he is stock (we both have Borla cat-backs). More testing is needed, so stay tuned.
Tonyyank
09-09-2002, 09:09 AM
R/T .841:huh: :nono: Matt!!! Come on buddy get those reaction times down a little bit!!! lol
SilverGT1
09-09-2002, 09:14 AM
i will be delaying my sa order till further news.. this is a sad day :(
jaketuff
09-09-2002, 09:45 AM
Yeah!
This seems off, his car was faster than that!!!!!
Steve, did you have wheelspin? That time does not do justice to the SA Parts. I lost to FastSteve after being iced down, it was close and I drove shi++y on the run, but I believe that he had a high 14 sec that day.
We both had wheelspin off the line, and I let off more than I should have to compensate. He spun right thru it and got grip. I lost by about 3/4 a car length. But I suppose I ran about a 15.2 or so, I suppose he was around a high fourteen.
But I may be mistaken.:rolleyes: Perhaps my car/driving was awful that day and perhaps that made him seem faster to me. Anyway, I believe that HEADWORK will give a large amount of HP.
Pat
black99gt
09-09-2002, 10:07 AM
Wow... he ran the EXACT time i did... 15.216 lol!!
If he can get off the line a bit quicker... he could run a high 14.
Good job steve:thumbs:
but all in all.. it still took me 140 bucks to run a 15.2 :thumbs: hehe
PS. Steve. GET RID OF THE STOCK AIRBOX :eek: :confused: That would help that beefed up motor your running bud
mfuller
09-09-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by black99gt
but all in all.. it still took me 140 bucks to run a 15.2 :thumbs: hehe
Some cars are more equal than others. Be glad you've got a ringer.
Drew99GT
09-09-2002, 12:32 PM
Damn, if you guys that have major work (blowers, ported stuff etc) would invest in some kind of a digital management system like an Accel DFI, dyno tune it perfectly, and get a better torque converter, I think you could drop at least a half second or more! It would be expensive, but the benefits would be enormous, especially for the blown cars.
Macleod52
09-09-2002, 02:14 PM
Well considering Steve was running 15.4's or even lower (can't remember) stock those numbers are quite dissapointing. I think it was just a bad day cause I know for sure he should be running a lot faster than that. Oh well.. Maybe next time!
MetaGTP1
09-09-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by jaketuff
Yeah!
This seems off, his car was faster than that!!!!!
Steve, did you have wheelspin? That time does not do justice to the SA Parts. I lost to FastSteve after being iced down, it was close and I drove shi++y on the run, but I believe that he had a high 14 sec that day.
We both had wheelspin off the line, and I let off more than I should have to compensate. He spun right thru it and got grip. I lost by about 3/4 a car length. But I suppose I ran about a 15.2 or so, I suppose he was around a high fourteen.
But I may be mistaken.:rolleyes: Perhaps my car/driving was awful that day and perhaps that made him seem faster to me. Anyway, I believe that HEADWORK will give a large amount of HP.
Pat I agree, his car was running fast at Milan. I was very impressed with it.
Dr_Kyle
09-09-2002, 06:12 PM
my theory is too much wheelspin. that 60' time killed him. However, even with that, he still pulled a 15.2, so that's not bad at all. I am confused though...why only one run??
P.S. Steve, get a CAI!!
His 60' completely blows. Thats the problem right there. I was running 2.4 flat with my 4 cyl. He can't be hooking up at all. He needs to get that down to 2.1s and he will be in the 14s. Practice, practice, practice :)
SpyhunteR
09-09-2002, 08:10 PM
hehehe... i have a better 60ft!!! 2.35 hehehehe !!!! still blows me out of the water.. :\
IrateSpeed6
09-09-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Drew99GT
and get a better torque converter, I think you could drop at least a half second or more!
ah HA... so there are some people using their heads on this board... :D There is so much to gain with a $400 TC... ours suck. I'm going to go out on a limb and say a standard GAGT blown against an automatic GAGT blown would run .5 faster...
[edit]d'oh
Originally posted by IrateGT
ah HA... so there are some people using their heads on this board... :D There is so much to gain with a $400 TC... ours suck. I'm going to go out on a limb and say a standard GAGT blown against a manual GAGT blown would run .5 faster...
Yeah, I know that's not what you meant but it's funny considering your first line.
:thumbs:
IrateSpeed6
09-09-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by embe
Yeah, I know that's not what you meant but it's funny considering your first line.
:thumbs:
hey, thanks buddy...:tool:
resevil83
09-10-2002, 12:09 AM
what sa parts does steve have? where is all motor he may have some ughh times for us maybe? I don't know guys but I'll tell you this winter is coming I'm not doing performance mods, but when it his spring I'll tell you my car will be in the 13's less if the turbo is done by then. I want to to Everrrrrything.. down pipe hi flow cat, granatelli maf, headers, ported heads, upper intake manifold lower, pulley, turbo with intercooler - wastegate and anything else possible, chip - ase reprogram or waiting for another.. and also... a shot of nos? maybe.... i dunno torque converter and tranny too..... :) hopefully we can see some of the times now though!
ALEROone
09-10-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by resevil83
what sa parts does steve have? where is all motor he may have some ughh times for us maybe? I don't know guys but I'll tell you this winter is coming I'm not doing performance mods, but when it his spring I'll tell you my car will be in the 13's less if the turbo is done by then. I want to to Everrrrrything.. down pipe hi flow cat, granatelli maf, headers, ported heads, upper intake manifold lower, pulley, turbo with intercooler - wastegate and anything else possible, chip - ase reprogram or waiting for another.. and also... a shot of nos? maybe.... i dunno torque converter and tranny too..... :) hopefully we can see some of the times now though!
With all of those mods you better be looking at getting a new tranny!;)
MidwestJosh
09-10-2002, 01:57 PM
Hey Matt, where is FastSteve? He hasn't registered yet. I know he is busy between work/school/family, but I don't think anyone but you has heard from him in a few weeks.
mfuller
09-10-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by resevil83
what sa parts does steve have?
The full monty....throttle body, upper and lower intake manifolds, and Stage 2 cylinder heads. He also has a Granatelli MAF, a Casper's AFPR, Accel coils, Taylor wires, RAT underdrive pullies, and a Borla cat-back exhaust.
mfuller
09-10-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by MidwestJosh
Hey Matt, where is FastSteve? He hasn't registered yet. I know he is busy between work/school/family, but I don't think anyone but you has heard from him in a few weeks.
He's been extremely busy. His dad is still recovering from quadruple-bypass heart surgery, and school takes up a lot of his time. He just hasn't had the time to re-register. We try to keep in touch every so often.
AaronGTR
09-11-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Drew99GT
Damn, if you guys that have major work (blowers, ported stuff etc) would invest in some kind of a digital management system like an Accel DFI, dyno tune it perfectly, and get a better torque converter, I think you could drop at least a half second or more! It would be expensive, but the benefits would be enormous, especially for the blown cars.
Easier said than done. There are many stand alone engine managment systems on the market, but if they don't make one that's plug-n-play for your car you have to replace alot of your stock sensors and add sensors and wiring harness for that computer. Also, our transmissions are controlled by the ECM. Aftermarket ECM's won't control it, so you'd have to leave the stock ECM in to control the tranny, and find a way for the aftermarket unit to control the engine without the stock ECM throwing a fit. It's just not worth the time and $$$ with the limited power capacity of the stock tranny. A re-programmed stock ECM should be fine for the kind of power we'll be making.
Sorry_Officer
09-11-2002, 09:05 AM
Wow.........I am speechless.
mfuller
09-11-2002, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by jaketuff
Steve, did you have wheelspin? That time does not do justice to the SA Parts. I lost to FastSteve after being iced down, it was close and I drove shi++y on the run, but I believe that he had a high 14 sec that day.
We both had wheelspin off the line, and I let off more than I should have to compensate. He spun right thru it and got grip. I lost by about 3/4 a car length. But I suppose I ran about a 15.2 or so, I suppose he was around a high fourteen.
Horsepower and torque don't mean diddley if you can't reliably put it to the ground.....:rolleyes:
I'm not quite sure what he holds the revs at to launch, but I usually tach up to only 1700rpm or so....
Sorry_Officer
09-11-2002, 09:38 AM
When my car is done in a few weeks I better not be in the 15's............or my car will be for sale.:rage:
Hopefully FastSteve can get his car running well so hopefully we can line them up (C&S Performance vs. SA):D
bszopi
09-11-2002, 12:33 PM
Arron explained the aftermarket ECM problem very well. I have first hand knowledge about the difficulties of installing such a unit, for mine is still not installed! And (for now), I will be utilizing the stock ECM for tranny controls and the aftermarket unit for fuel and spark control. Since school and work are keeping me pretty busy right now, I don't think I'll have a chance to work on it again until December, but I'll let everyone know how it turns out when I eventually get it running.
Oh, there is a stand-alone tranny computer, but its $1500, so I doubt many people will be interested in it. I have a 4T60HD sitting outside right now, so I may eventually just get rid of the electronically controlled tranny. Haven't decided yet...
bonecrrusher
01-01-2003, 01:19 AM
FastSteve only ran a 15.2? Timmah with his SA 3400 Z26 has been running those times and doesnt even have the engine tuned! Strange that a 94 Z26 with the full SA 3400 is keeping up with a GAGT that is running the correct engine code and tranny shifts. heh....
Hopefully Tim's car is done by FastSteve's next spring meeting.
Grand am weighs more.....
bonecrrusher
01-01-2003, 12:45 PM
wow I just realized that I brought this topic back from the dead, but i did use the seach button for dynos of the TOG headers. hehe
BTW what is the curb weight of the GAGT's?? The Berettas are around 2970 lbs....
jaketuff
01-01-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by bonecrrusher
BTW what is the curb weight of the GAGT's?? The Berettas are around 2970 lbs....
On the run Steves car should have been right around 3050 lbs. When I weigh the car at the track I am usually right around 3200lbs, with myself in the seat. I have a coupe. The 4dr is a bit heavier, by around 75lbs.
*Anxiously waiting Round 2 here Matt!!! And my Round 2 with you as well Steve!!!;):D
Pat
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.