Scraping/Scrunching Noise from Front of Vehicle During Low Speed Turning and Braking

[iceman]

#02-03-10-003


Scraping/Scrunching Noise From Front of Vehicle During Low Speed Turning and Braking (Clean the Front Wheels and Replace Front Tires Only)
1999-2002 Oldsmobile Alero

1999-2002 Pontiac Grand Am

with RPO QSK (Goodyear® Eagle™ RSA Tires) or RPO QQK (Goodyear® Eagle™ LS Tires)

Built Prior To the Following VIN Breakpoints:

VIN
Tire

2C250655
with Goodyear® Eagle™ RSA Tires

Prior to DOT #M6WXAWE0502

2M655421

2C283578
with Goodyear® Eagle™ LS Tires

Prior to DOT #PDWXC5E1002

2M689350


Condition
Some customers may comment on a noise from the front of the vehicle during low speed cornering, braking and parking lot maneuvers. The noise sounds like a scrunching/scraping noise. ONLY vehicles equipped with 16 inch (406 mm) aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle™ RSA or Goodyear® Eagle™ LS tires are affected.

Cause
This condition may be caused by raised ribs on the tire sidewall contacting the rim flange and creating an audible noise during vehicle cornering maneuvers. The rubbing action may cause minor cosmetic chafing on the rim flange, but will have no negative affect on the tire/wheel performance or durability.

Correction
Diagnosis
The vehicle will be equipped with 16 inch (406 mm) aluminum wheels with Goodyear® Eagle™ RSA or Goodyear® Eagle™ LS tires ONLY.
The noise is commonly misdiagnosed as a faulty front wheel bearing or worn front brake pads.
Raise the front tire pressure to 303 kPa (44 psi) or substitute the front tire/wheel assemblies with a known good set and road test the vehicle. If the noise is reduced or eliminated, the tire to wheel interface is the cause.
Follow the service procedure below to correct this condition.

Service Procedure
Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in the General Information subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #632491).
Remove both front tire wheel assemblies from the vehicle. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in the Tire and Wheels subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #702013).
Remove all the wheel weights and dismount both front tires from the wheels. Refer to Tire Mounting and Dismounting in the Tire and Wheels subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #290800).




Important
DO NOT remove metal material from the flange area while cleaning the flange area.


Clean the inner and outer wheel flange area with a ScotchBrite™ General Purpose Pad - Marron 3M®, P/N 051131-37447, or equivalent, and Brake Parts Cleaner, GM P/N 12346139 (in Canada, P/N 10653463).




Important
The GG grooves (railroad track type markings) on the tire side walls are for appearance only and DO NOT affect the tire/wheel performance.


Inspect the side walls of the tires for GG grooves near the bead. If the tires have GG grooves, the tires require replacement.



Replace the front tires ONLY with non-GG grooved tires. Refer to Tire Mounting and Dismounting in the Tire and Wheels subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #290800).
Re-balance the front tires. Refer to Tire and Wheel Assembly Balancing - Off Vehicle in the Vibration Correction subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #664222).
Install both front tire/wheel assemblies on the vehicle. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in the Tire and Wheels subsection of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #702013).

Important
When ordering tires, be sure to request tires built AFTER the DOT numbers listed in the VIN breakpoint table at the beginning of this bulletin.


For vehicles repaired under General Motors Bumper-to-Bumper Warranty (In Canada, Total Warranty), refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 00-03-10-003B (SI Document ID #796375). Dealers in Canada refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 01-03-10-003.

[VaGT]

My 2001 ends in 1C238114, and is affected by this TSB right?


I have 22,500 miles on it, and I think I have this noise. I took it to the dealer once and they said they could hear nothing during a road test.

However, it probably is not worth the hassle for me to pursue it. I would end up with a new set of tires on the front, and an old set on the back. They are also just going to replace them with junk RSA's again anyway.

[ChadGT]

personally, i think this tsb is a joke. only replacing the front tires? so what happens when you rotate them per the manual, huh gm? let's see, the rears go to the front, now i have that sound back again. time to waste more of my time taking it back to the dealer to have this done again. crazy.

chad

[VaGT]

Which is why with 22,500 on the RSA's, I am not gonna bother. I'll just wait since I don't want RSA's again.

[steve88]

does it matter how many KM's you have on your car to use the TSB's. For example the one about the scraping in the front??

[VaGT]

I think the only stipulation is that the car has to be under warrantee.

[FireBird]

Well I just went to the dealer today for another problem.. and to my surprise the service manager brought up this TSB. I had complained about noise during braking and cornering in the past, but the dealer said they couldn't find anything. So I get two new tires at 28,000 miles :) I really don't want RSA's again either, but it will prolong me changing tires for awhile longer. I know when the get rotated the noise will come back.. and I may just complain again see what happens. So.. if your having noise or problems with your tires, it's worth calling the dealer.

[TLS2000]

Before this TSB came about, I got a free set of tires for all 4 corners for specifically that problem.

The shop forman at the dealership even told me that he wouldn't replace just two tires, since even GM doesn't recommend it.

[Hot_Stud18]

Well brought my car into the dealer and he diagnosed me with this problem but my question is he is only giving me two front tires which he had to order and will be in, in a week or so but do you think I outta complain and try to get new ones on the back too being that there all the same tires or don't you think I should waste my time. I was talking to the guy working on my car and asked him about it and he said "But" the back ones are flat and said something about how they weren't rotated. So guys what should I do?

[Girlracer7]

I brought my car into the dealership about the scrunching noise when I make turns in May and they didn't hear anything. So I made an appointment to bring it in becasue of how bad it is now. But before I did I read these posts to see if anyone else is dealing with this like I am.
Well they said that they'd give me two new ones, so I brought up the point that when I go to rotate my tires it's gonna happen again, he told me to call GM and ask for all four. Another guy did and GM gave the dealership approval. So I go home and call and the guy the whole time was a complete jack***. He told me first of all that my car was a drivers ed car. My car is a fully loaded (no leather) coupe GT, why the heck would that be used for a drivers ed car? I bought the car with only 7 miles on it. And that he cant tell me for sure that the problem would happen when I rotate tires, so he said NO.

Sould I let it go or what? Did anyone get all four? If so, HELP!

Laura

[bigblue2003]

Had the same problem on my 99 GT1. One month out of warranty of course. Sounded like a rotor problem at first. Bought a new set of Michelin's--they ride better than the Goodyear's. Only had about 30,000 miles at the time with regular rotation/balance. They sure don't last long!:mad:

[el gordo loco]

Same trouble on my 2k gagt, the dealer claims that it's from low pressure and hi/lo spots on the tires due to lack of balancing/rotaion they put air in my tires and sent me on my way..unhappy of course..not that I'm giving in that easy.
I've been having this issue with the tire pressure and noise for a while and have had the tires inspected and resealed and mounted only to get the same problem about 100 miles later. I rotate tires front to back @ that very same dealer every 6-7k!! and now I'm being fed the Corporate bs lines. I think the TSB is misleading in that it states no negative affect on the tires and that feel that the GG groves on the RSAs are helping the tires to slip on the rim allowing seapage of air and the unblanced tires.
If there's a separate TSB on tire pressue I missed someone fill me in.
I'm rescheduled for friday at another local dealer and will keep all informed.
PS I'm a newbie love the site and hope to contribute when I can.

[el gordo loco]

I left out in previous post that I'm still within the 3/36k warranty with just over 24500 miles on the entire vehical and plenty of "meat" left on the tires. Again any help appreciated.

[Hot_Stud18]

Yes el gordo please let me know what they say, I been trying to get tires for the past two weeks although he says I will be getting two new front ones they been giving me the run around I keep calling to ask if my tires are in yet and first hes like it will take 1 week, then I call a week later then he says 1-2 weeks, now I call today and hes says 2-3 weeks and he also said that they might have tires in but the guy that does the warranty work is on jury duty and that he hasnt seen him the past week:(

[el gordo loco]

:DWell sometimes it pays to act "stupid" for lack of a better word.
Took car in for front end noise and told them I thought I needed brakes(the whole time with copy of tsb in glove box in case they wanted to take me along for the ride). Dealer came back said that they've ordered me 4 new tires and should be here in 2-3 weeks and explained that "it's a common problem with these cars." .... an HONEST dealer ...and I thought they were extinct.

Only bad thing here is that I'll have to deal with the junk rsa's for at least 2-3 more weeks..and hopefully won't have to experience what Hot_Stud18 is going through..

[Hot_Stud18]

Was it making noise when you brought it into the dealer? How long has it been doing this? Mine seemed to go away now and I just dont want to go there when he calls and tells me my tires are here and then when I go there its making no noise at all and then he says oh everything looks fine here and then says looks like you wont be needing new tires after all.

[Superman]

Too funny,
I am going thru this prob right now. 3 months ago ( when it was nice) I brought the car in. At that specific time, it did not make the noise. But when I picked up the car from the dealership, sure enough it was there. I grab the guuy who tested my car, and he said "yup" there it is. Same crap on he can only order only 2 tires. BUT he said rotate the tires, then bring the car back. My bri-in-law said he had this prob on one of his cars. He brought it to a tire dealership that services and sells that brand. They knew all about it and did the replacement for him there! I'm going today to see if i can get it that way as no time during the week to leave my car at the dealership all day. What a hassel that is too!

I'll keep u posted

Thanks to Iceman for the detailed info. This is always good to bring this kind of info to the dealership. Some of those guys just don't believe it or even know about it!

[Brad02]

Well, I went ot the dealer a few weeks ago with the TSB in hand. The dealership knew what I was talking about and told me they would deal with it. When I picked up my car the next day I was informed that they have to order the tires in. Fine, I can deal with the grinding noise for a few more weeks. But what surprised me was that the dealership only ordered two tires. My car is a 2002 with 21,000km on it. I have heard that putting new tires on a car with older tires is problematic. Also, if they rotate my tires and my old RSA's go to the front won't the problem occur again?

I wonder if there is a little policy somewhere that states that GM should offer four new tires instead of two. For safety reasons or what have you.

Let me know.

[Hot_Stud18]

Whatever you do man don't call GM because I did and when I called there some lady answered the phone in a really nice manner and after she said "the usual stuff" im like I am just following up with you guys about the problem I am having with my car, then thats when all hell broke loose. First she takes a deep breath and then shes like ummm ok-then another little pause, and then she says what is your problem(in a really mean voice) I told her and then shes like have you contacted the pontiac assitance center she had me really confused im like isn't this the pontiac service center, and then she says it again only with a big and loud "SIR" and then im like HUH, then she connects me to this answering machine type thing so its like they don't even want to talk at all.

So now I am just sitting here going on 4 weeks now and still no tires even though I am still calling once a week and still getting the run around from the dealer, I still do not have atleast my two tires yet and now this is getting a little old.

[Girlracer7]

I'm totally with you on this...I called the 1-800 # trying to get all four tires and the guy was a real prick after I told him what I wanted he told me that there is no way that I can get four new tires...So I e-mail Pontiac the SAME guy calls me back the next morning and is like your not geting four new tirers have a good day and hangs up! AHHHH and I'm still waiting on my front two...the said next week two weeks ago. So we will see I have never had a major problem with me car so this is very disappointing!!!

Laura

[Hot_Stud18]

Laura we are having the exact same problem, at this point in time I will be happy atleast with my front two tires now but I call the dealer every week and he gives me this run around crap, next time I call im gonna be like come on dude I been waiting one month for my tires what the hell is going on here, there should be no way it should be taking that long to get tires.

[Girlracer7]

Yeah I'm going to stop there before I have to go to work, next weekend I have to drive 300 miles to see my sister so I'd like them before then because I'm not sure how much I trust my car right now. They better have something good to say!!! Good luck man!

[embe]

I contacted my dealership about this noise and took my car in to get it fixed. The service manager said it was the tires and they'd "take care of it". When I dropped the car off, the guy said they were going to replace the tires under warranty and if I really wanted to, I could rotate the tires, bring it right back and they'd replace the other 2 as well. Keep in mind that I didn't even ask for this...but was prepared to haul out the TSB if they started giving me a hassle.

I got a call at work from the service manager saying they weren't going to do anything with the tires because they were "bald". I've got under 32k miles on my car....I've never done a burnout / smokeshow or anything....my tires might be a little worn (I looked at them and I'd say 60%), but there's no way they're bald. This noise is an ongoing problem that I've had since 19k (resealed tire to rim) and I told him that. He asked why I had to be so ignorant and hung up on me!! wtf

I asked to speak to the owner of the Stedelbauer Motors and am currently awaiting his call. I'm pretty dissappointed in the way Stedelbauer Motors treats it's repeat customers, to say the least.

[Hot_Stud18]

Well I just got my tires today, they were only 2 front ones though but im glad because those had the most wear on them. Oh and it took me 1 1/2 months to get them. Later

[H.O. Driver]

I just took my 99' for the same thing and the first time he said that my abs sensor was rubbing on the axle and since it wasn't broken that my extened warrenty wouldn't cover it so I had to bite a hour and a half of labor. Then yesterday I took it back in and for the same thing it didn't rub for about of week and he said that if I would have brought it in early that I could get some GM assistance with the problem but it was too late! They just inflated the tires to 44psi and charged me a hour worth of labor.
wtf? I don't see why they couldn't reseal the tire and see if that helps? I didn't have a problem with it til' about a month ago they car has 43k on the stock rsa's.

[gtaholic]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
I didn't have a problem with it til' about a month ago they car has 43k on the stock rsa's.

About 40K is when I started noticing it as well. I am just putting up with it until I need new tires. It is not hurting anything just enoying. Turn up the music or get a Flowmaster.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by gtaholic

Turn up the music or get a Flowmaster.

Trust me, my car is loud! Exhaust mainly and stereo is just getting louder. It just annoys me that it's loud enough to be heard inside the car so it has to be damn loud out side the car. Having a nice looking car schreeching to a stop is a pet peeve of mine! :rage:

[Bigkev]

Do you know how much money I coughed to find out it was the tires? I bought some rotors, pads, (metallic) twice and took it several times back to the dealer to realize it was the tires. Pontiac dealer said would only replace with the same RSA's:huh:

[VaGT]

Mine just seemed to get worse over the last week. With 26K on the car, it might be my crappy brakes, but it is more likely this problem since the brakes feel fine.

What a hassle this type of thing is.


GM should just replace all 4 of the tires right up front, instead of making people rotate tires, then come back, or leaving people with new tires paired with old ones.

If I have it done, I will probably just not rotate them for a long time to even things out a bit. I don't know... It would extend the time before having to shell out $450 for a new set.

[el gordo loco]

Well since my post back in November I've had all 4 stock goodyears replaced by the dealer.. it took patience (and some expression of anger:rage: )to get the 4 done but all was well worth the wait. I've had the tires on for about 1 full month now and can notice a HUGE change for the better. I cannot honestly compare them to other sports tires, since all previous vehicles I've owned were SUV's, but can say I'm impressed at how well the RSAs handle the snow. I'm in Cleveland and like much of the northeastern U.S. we've been burried in snow for at least 3 weeks now and the replacement RSAs couldn't have come at a better time.

[VaGT]

Did you have to rotate the tires before they would give you all 4?

I don't really expect my dealer to replace all 4 from my past experiences with them. They might if I rotate the tires, and the noise returns.

I checked this morning, and my tires do have those grooves right near/under the lip of the rim.

I printed off the pdf document for this TSB that is floating around. I am thinking of making a Monday morning appointment.

[el gordo loco]

I did not have to wait to have them rotated....initially they were going to change 2 tires and was to try it out and if at rotation it proved to need the other 2 dealer agreed to change as well...however dealer said thd would take 3-4 weeks to get the 2 tires...well took them 6wks on an internal error ..so they just ordered all 4 since they knew I would be back at rotation time and since they recieved all four at once all were installed at once. they also pointed out that bumper trim would be replaced in spring when weather break without me having to ask(I had not noticed that trim was coming off yet so this left me with good impression of the dealer, Clay Matthews Pontiac)

[VaGT]

One more question...

I hear mine when I am just rolling slowly without braking, but it becomes more audible when I am braking.

The sound is on, off, on, off, etc. It goes with the turn of the tire/wheel. Is this the sound you were hearing?

Does this rule out the brakes since I can hear it when not braking?

... or conversly, does this rule out the tire issue since it gets worse when braking?


Thanks.

[el gordo loco]

B4 new set of tires, the "scrunching noise" for the most part got worse in turns and when breaking and was audible inside/outside the car @ low speeds (5-15mph) the slower, the louder. As for the noise it was on/off ,on/off with turn of the turn of the wheel just as your describing. It's your tires! If your still in doubt about it and have access to another set of wheels/ tires from a vehicle that's not making the noise put those on your car(or have dealer put set on from newer GA/Alero) and you'll notice the difference. If your out of waranty some tires shops offer 30day day trials for tires(you pay up front but if not happy with tires take them back b4 30 days is up and get $$ back or different set) take a set for a ride for 30 days and feel/hear the difference. If your not convinced by then....click your heels or chant beetlejuice 3 times and hope it goes away...j/k:p

[VaGT]

OK, yep, that nails my problem. I just wanted to get as much info on the problem as I could before taking it to the dealer. The tires have plenty of life left, and I don't want to listen to this noise until it is time to buy a new set. I'll have to find time to get it to the dealer.

Thanks

[XDRKMANX]

Is this what I would print out and bring with me to the dealers?

[Brad02]

Well, I FINALLY got a call today from the service tech who said my new tires were in, 4 months after I went to them with the problem.

As I was talking to him I asked him how many tires they would be replacing. He stated the 2 front tires. I asked him what would happen when the two back tires came to the front on the next tire rotation. Common sense would tell you that the noise would return when the tires were rotated. I mentioned this and his response was "Well, we will deal with that when the time comes." No big deal, I am greatful that the grinding noise is finally going to be gone.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so how did you deal with it?

Thanks!

[VaGT]

I am finally getting around to taking mine in... I have been pretty busy. I am going to call and get an appointment for tomorrow morning.

I also think my rotors are warped again. My wife drives the car more than me, and I noticed it while taking a long highway trip.

[Spoonya]

Well I haven't been on for awhile but this post was a god-send! I brought my car to the dealer to get the noise checked out on two occasions. Grinding sounds started around 25K.

Both times the mechanic test drove - First drive it was raining, couldn't hear anything..... second time they said not to worry about it, it's the grooves rubbing, not damaging, no problem. (although embarrassing when your passengers say "is that YOUR car making that nasty sound?" :( )

So I put up with it..... another year goes by..... I'm back at the dealer for new gaskets last month, and while I was waiting, a fellow customer with the same GA tells me about this tire-replacement issue, and informs me that he got 4 new tires from them! Well naturally, I'm gettin' excited and put on my boxing gloves......

Enter Francis, the service advisor. Francis was a :tool: with me... acting all patronizing, utilizing his selective memory skills, claiming "well i don't remember you EVER bringing your car in for that problem before!"..... Well that didn't go well with Miss Angie..... so I walked right up to him, grabbed him by the collar and said "Oh yeah! well you listen here FranCIS!, you better check your service records there buddy! cuz YOU are goin' DOWN my friend!" - ok, not really..... I'm just being dramatic! ;)

Anyways, well I made him check my service records and OH YEAH, right there infront of him are both of my former grinding complaints - Who's yo momma!? Hehe.

So naturally, he starts giving me this lecture about how I have exceeded the 60KM warranty period, blah blah blah.... so then i reminded him that THEY are the ones who informed me to continue putting kilometers on my car! so there! hehe

Well, 3rd test-drive arrives, grinding noise is evident to mechanic, and the call for new tires is placed! YES! :thumbs:

I will find out the verdict this week. Hopefully God is looking down on me and brings me a whole new set of crappy RSA's - CHA-CHING! hahaha ..... so the tires suck, but at least they are FREE!

[NadroJ]

My '99 Grand Am GT makes that noise like all the time. I've taken it back to the dealer probably 3 times, got new tires and new brakes. Still the same noise, so I'm done with the Dealership.. I was reading up on what "iceman" wrote.. He said that raising the tired pressure to 44 psi will fix it.. Has anyone tried that? Just wanted to know if it fixed the problem, before I go out and try it.. Oh yeah, I just got a new set of tires (not the dealer).. They aren't the Goodyear anymore and the sound is still there!!

Did raising the pressure work for anyone?

Anyone got any other suggestions to try?

Feel free to email me!!
gznadroj@hotmail.com

[JGA-GT]

:D Whent to dealer with tsb in hand, car at 36,900 test drive, diagnosis tires thought it was wheel bearings.. Dealer says car is out of warranty, will replace two front tires tires, ordered on thursday, monday tires in, drop off car pick up tuesday all is well, no noise. Tires all but worn out, now I just have to buy two instead of four.

[ChadGT]

took our car into the dealer yesterday for this tire noise. i attached a copy of the tsb to my letter to them so they would know what to do :) 33k miles on car, and i got two new front tires. no questions or arguments, although there was really nothing they could argue since the tires made the noise while slow cornering. i was hopeful that they would do all 4, but that didn't happen. of course, while i'm waiting for them to order new front side windows and seals to replace them due to scratches, when i take the car back for that, i will rotate the old rear tires forward, and they can replace them as well. hey, 4 new tires at 33k miles is a good deal, even if they are the goodyears.

chad

[embe]

So am I the only one who has been straight out DENIED new tires?

I don't feel that the amount of wear on the tires is relevant if the problem lies with the design of the tires themselves---they still make that annoying sound.

Since the weather is drier the noise is returning and I'm thinking about trying a different dealership to get them replaced.

[JGA-GT]

My tires were all but worn out on the front and they still replaced them no question and my car was outside the factiory warranty

[ChadGT]

you should NOT be denied replacement, if your tires meet the serial numbers called out in the tsb and they make the noise. regardless of wear. simple as that. make sure you print out a copy of the tsb and include that when you take your car in, which sounds like you'd be better off going to another dealer now if it is convenient. some dealers are just plain aholes.

chad

[FireBird]

Well I just brought my car in for an oil change, and thought I would mention the TSB since my tires were rotated I had been hearing the noise in the front end again. Actually I hadn't heard any noise but at 35,000 I was due for some tires, and knew my tires were part of the TSB. I already had two replaced last fall, I really didn't think the dealer would do it, or they would complain. BUT to my suprise I got two new tires the same day!!! So I'm happy 4 new tires and just before my warranty ran out ( RSA's aren't the best but for free they will do) :) :)

I've been very happy with my dealer, and somewhat happy with the car overall.

Warranty Work

4 New Tires
Intake Gasket
Power Steering Pump
Water Leaking in Doors
Brake Lights burning out
Power Window Regulator
Brakes rotors turned and new pads (may have been the tire noise)
New Strut mounts (may have been tire noise)

I may be glad I have an extended warranty.....

[dhdz]

well my bumper to bumper warranty is gone, I'm at 37500 miles, I do have an exended warranty, do you guys think it will covered?

[ChadGT]

well, i'm getting screwed. i had my two front tires replaced per the tsb 2 weeks ago no problem. so i rotated the back two forward since it was rotation time and took it back 2 days ago for some other repairs and mentioned the same tsb tire noise problem, which came back now, and they won't replace the other two!!!?! i argued for a bit saying that per the manual, i have to rotate the tires. the tires that are on the front now are effected by the tsb and have the problem. the service advisor said he has already talked to his boss and they would need authorization from pontiac to replace these two. so he gives me the 1800PMCARES number to call. I do and get a guy operator who needs to do research and contact the Area Service Manager for the dealer's area (Faulkner Pontiac in West Chester PA). Anyway, he calls me back yesterday and tells me that this ASM (or probably more appropriately AS S) is denying the repair, since it is not a recall or a safety item, and that the TSB says replace the front tires only, bs, bs, etc. Once again I argue that what tires are making the noise now...let's see...my FRONT tires. I am angry to say the least. and he wouldn't give me the ASM's information to contact him or have him directly contact me since talking with this simple operator is useless. I also mentioned I know of many people (from reading this site) that have had all 4 replaced, so why the different treatment? he said there's nothing i can do, it is denied. I guess I am going to try writing Pontiac next and cc'ing it to the dealer. Customer satisfaction my as s. we'll see how it works out. anyone have any more suggestions? I wonder if it is denied in the computer, aka if i would take it to another dealer? tia.

chad

[Vintalage]

I have this problem and the dealer I went to only rotated my tires. The service guy said that fixed the scraping noise I was having but I have to go to a good year shop to get the tires replaced. WTF??? The funny thing is, before I took the car in, my right front and right rear tires were losing air. Several weeks after their supposed "rotation," the tires are still losing air in the same location. Not on the left, but the right. And the scraping noise has returned. Same location. Freakin dealers and their ****!!! :rage:

I've got to try another dealer now. :mad:

[ChadGT]

well, yesterday i emailed my story to Pontiac online as well as cc'ing it to the dealer service advisor and manager. no word yet other than a reply saying Pontiac online got my email. what still gets me is the one excuse that the tsb was done only as a courtesy repair, therefore they won't do the other two. i questioned how they determine if i am eligible for a courtesy repair and why exactly how i am different than the other people who have had all 4 tires replaced. as well, i listed all of the warranty repairs i have had so far, i.e. leaking crankshaft seal, 2 bad fuel sensor senders, new front rotors and pads, faulty SES light, leaking intake gaskets, scratched front windows, bad window regulator, and the black trim piece falling off the bumper. i then said whatever the criteria for a courtesy repair is, i believe my long list of warranty repairs i have had to have done as well as the amount of my personal time used to drop off and pick up the car should be recognized accordingly. we'll see.

vintalage, i would suggest printing out the tsb and taking it to the next dealer. also, do like i do, and mark the tires, LF, LR, RF, RR using ink pen on the tire in the same place (i always mark mine in the R in Goodyear) this lets you know then if/what they did anything to your wheels/tires. don't trust them.

chad

[Karen8]

I have been waiting for my tires for almost a year now!! I am getting ****ed not to mention i have a slow leak in the drivers side front tire and will have to replace it really soon and should not have to pay for it because i should be getting two new ones!

[schizm99]

It may sound stupid, but how do I know what the specs are on the tires that are being replaced?? My front tires need to be replaced and hell I might as well have GM do it for me. Hell they owe it to me after all the wasted time sitting in the dealership waiting for my car to be fixed!!!

[Karen8]

ok, you have the info on the bulletin # and id but where can i call to see what is going on besides the dealership? There should be higher up to contact??? I am sick of waiting. It is bs waiting almost a year for the two front tires. My warrenty is almost up also.

[Bigkev]

Maybe call the 800# to Ppntiac customer service to escalate the issue.

[Karen8]

ok, thanks, i will try calling it.

[smiley68]

I have been having this problem since i purchased my GA but i have an SE with the Steelies. The sound I hear is like a loud squeakin noise like its my break indicators but my breaks are fine I also get another sound that sounds like it goes cha cha cha cha like constantly during low to moderate speed, also during breakin and turning the wheels. What do you guys think i should do?

[schizm99]

I have always noticed that GM brakes develop a haze every morning on the brake rotors. So every day you hear this cha cha cha noise. It is actually the pads scraping this haze of the discs. The only option is to get an after market brake.

This is only my opinion and I have no facts to base this on, other then what I have seen!!

[smiley68]

schizm99...Thx man I will try that out next month do you know a good aftermarket brand for a good price?

[Black01gt1]

Hey, I also have this same problem...It was diagnosed by this dealer, however they are saying that I have to pay for them to be replaced...$214 a tire...even though its still under the factory warranty (just over 21,000 miles on it) and I also have the extended warranty on it...So im talking to another dealership now...Ill update what they have to say....

[Vintalage]

I'm going to be direct this time when making an appointment on the phone. I am going to say that I EXPECT this issue to be resolved according to the TSB.

[iceman]

Originally posted by Black01gt1


WHERE can I get a copy of this "TSB" to help me out?

jesus christ man, the first post in this thread IS the tsb.

[Black01gt1]

Yes i found it and edited my post thank you...

[Hotwheels2001]

When I took mine in I didn't even know about this problem, when I picked my car up they said you have 4 new tires and the problem is taken care of. That was all that was said about it.

[ChadGT]

well, i'm continuing to get the shaft from pontiac on getting my other 2 tires replaced per the TSB. first, the customer service from 1800PMCARES just plain sucks. they make promises of when they will get back to you, and then don't follow through. and then it takes a complaining email just to get them to follow through. pm cares...my as s. anyway, given the same lame excuses as before. i did get a call, actually a loong message, from the supposed area service manager, Phillip Marcilli (sp?) explaining how this TSB is only to help out the dealer diagnose something, and how this noise is NOT a safety defect, and he even went so far as to say he is trying to counsel his dealers to prorate any tires that are replaced. total bs. the TSB mentions none of this, period. it says if you have the correct serial number, the raised ribs, then REPLACE the tires. of course he left no way to contact him back. i have already progressed with Step 3 of disuputing something (step 1 was dealer, step 2 was 1800) which is filing with BBB auto line, so we'll see how that goes. i filed online, but it sucked because i was limited to only describing my situation with 40 words or so. hopefully they contact me for more info as i have an entire page to give to them. we'll see. i just think it's bs with them shoving poor excuses down your throat and expecting you to take it.

chad

[ikari]

I purchased a 2000 Grand Am GT from a pontiac dealer about two months ago. It has about 35,000 miles on it. Soon after buying it, I began to notice a strange semi-quiet scraping sound whenever I hit the brakes at slow speed. I took it back to the dealer and had them check the brakes, but they said the brakes were fine. The noise was still there so I took it to Midas for a second opinion. They said that not only were the brakes fine, but they looked new. I figured I should check the web and I stumbled upon this site (thank god). I do have the Eagle RSA tires in the rear, but the tires in the front are some other brand. I also think I can hear a slight scraping while turning too, but I'm not sure on that. The noise does seem worse the slower you go. I'm not sure what to do, I love this car and I want to fix this.:confused:

[Vintalage]

I just got back from a week long vacation. When I go to my car today, what do I see??? My car was swaying to the right. My rear right tire was flat. It still had a bit of air in there, but not much. The front right tire was low too. However, it was not as low as the rear. The dealer better fix my problem this time.

[Black01gt1]

Well, my tires are going to be replaced with no questions asked after I took the tech with me on a test drive, they also replaced a the right front rim for free, which was bent from the day I purchased the car, but original dealer (never go to Romano) would not replace it for me...I had to get one off eBay...$175.00 for a brand new one as opposed to $578.00 they wanted at the dealer, so I am very happy. I will find out if its 2 or 4 tires when I get it back I guess. I took it to Performance Pontiac/Nissan/GMC for any of you around central NY.

[SwatZeR]

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO POSTED IN THIS THREAD! ! !

I have been so frustrated with my 2000 Grand Am for the past year, but thanks to this thread, I am 200% happier!

Here is my story:

I bought my GAGT in 200 and the scraping sound reared its ugly head after a year or so. I took it in and asked them what was wrong. They replaced the rotors and sent me on my way. The sound was still there, so I took it back and said, "it runs fine, but the sound is driving me nuts and I don't know if it's causing any damage."

The second time they replaced the brake pads altogether. I could still hear the sound, so I said, "screw this!" I went and bought two new front tires. I didn't get any special tires - they were Coopers and cost me just over $200 because I know the guy. I told him I just wanted something that was cheap - I couldn't replace all four because I didn't have the money.

Then I came across the forums and happened to read about the TSB, and said, "HOLY CRAP! This is the same thing that happened to my car!" I ended up talking to Brad (one of the other guys that frequents here and also owns a Grand Am) and he said they replaced all four tires. I asked him why, because the TSB specifically indicates that the front two tires are to be replaced.
He said to get the first two done and then rotate the tires. Bring the car back in and they will do the other two.

I hada bit of a dilemna - I only had 2 RSA's. The back two tires are Coopers that I put on there.

I went in and explained the situation to the Service Manager, and I told him that a guy I know in Calgary had all 4 tires replaced at the same time, and that if I had known about this I would never have bought the Cooper tires. I also pointed out that my car was in twice and mis-diagnosed both times. He said he would make a few phone calls and get back to me this afternoon.

I got the phone call a few hours later and he said they had FOUR brand new tires on order! I was ecstatic! He asked me if I could do him one favour...bring in the two RSA's that I had replaced. I said I didn't have them anymore. He then said that all he needed was the reciept for the new Cooper tires I bought. I was all like, "Whoo-hoo!"

So, again, I must express my utmost thanks for this thread and to al the people that have posted here! Without it, I would have been forking out a whackload of cash for four brand new tires this month! PLUS, my warranty is up in August, so it's a good thing I read this thread because I would have been ****ed if I came across it AFTER my warranty was up!

Thanks a million guys! :D

[Brad02]

Your welcome Swat.

Now get on IRC sometime and we'll chat it up.

[Black01gt1]

Originally posted by Black01gt1
Well, my tires are going to be replaced with no questions asked after I took the tech with me on a test drive, they also replaced a the right front rim for free, which was bent from the day I purchased the car, but original dealer (never go to Romano) would not replace it for me...I had to get one off eBay...$175.00 for a brand new one as opposed to $578.00 they wanted at the dealer, so I am very happy. I will find out if its 2 or 4 tires when I get it back I guess. I took it to Performance Pontiac/Nissan/GMC for any of you around central NY. Well I got my tires today...only 2 but I'm still happy with that. No noise, better handling.

[BigTaters]

Ahh this could explain my problem. I have been hearing this damn sound for a few months now. It sounded like a scrunching vibrating squeek almost when i was at low speeds, cornering and braking sometimes. It doesnt do it in certain conditions though. When i took it into the GM dealer here they told me my Rotors are worn and need to be evened out or something. I was like what already. I only have 38,000 km on my car and its a 2000 GT.I couldnt figure that one out. I had my camaro for 100.000km and never replaced the rotors, dont know why the Grand am would need them after 38k. Must be all that fast and furious driving i do or something lol.rrrrriiiight stupid GM. I have had my tires rotated 2 times so far and was about to get it done again. If this sound continues after the rotation i guess it isnt the rotors after all hey....

[BigTaters]

haha u know what is funny. I just called one of the Gm dealers in town here about that noise and mentioned i had a tsb and several other people had had this done and explained that i had been to them and another dealer about this noise before and neither of them could pinpoint it. Hes like we will look into it and call u back this afternoon. Maybe 10 mins later the phone rings and he says sir can we book an appointment with you to look at your car. We are aware of the faulty tires on those years of cars. I was like well why didnt you say anything last time i brought it in you Azz Clown. So anyways looks like they will be fixin my prob. I think they are just being nice because i told them if i get bad service one more time i am never goin to them again for work(Murray GM, in MooseJaw Sask.) BRUTAL is all i can say lol.. Go in with one problem and come out with 4 more lol...

[Vintalage]

I just took my car in this morning to have this problem taken care of and mentioned the TSB. I got a call back this afternoon saying they have been real busy and haven't had a chance to get to my car but they will give me a loaner (rental from budget) free of charge. This dealer seems to be a better one than the last one I took it to. But we will see if they come through and replace all 4 tires instead of 2.

[BigTaters]

If you take your vehicle to their dealership for WARRANTY work they are obligated to supply you with a coutesy car unless just a shuttle service ride will be ok. But with your GM warranty if they job is goin to take a while they are supposed to give you a courtesy car. Some of these azzrammers just try to screw people on warranty things. Then the next place is totally fine. I dont understand at all. They get paid for it if they do it so im not sure why they refuse it.

[Vintalage]

Well I took my car to another dealer before to get this problem fix and they told me that it doesn't fall under the TSB and I have to go to a goodyear shop and they would replace the tires. They told me they rotated the tires and that eliminated the problem. Well, a few weeks later, it was back. Damn dealers.

[Vintalage]

Good news, all 4 tires will be replaced. And all I did was mention the TSB to them. They did not tell me any bs like the other dealer I took the car to did.

[ChadGT]

an update on my fighting for the replacement of the other two tires after i rotated them to the front, after proceeding to step 3, reporting to the better business bureau, i got a call yesterday that pontiac will replace the other two tires for free. yes. i'm sorry, though, they aren't doing me a favor so i hope they don't think they are. it is a damn shame that pontiac treats customers differently with the same tsb, aka some people get all 4 replaced, some people get two, some people get none. ridiculous. the facts are that the tsb mentions certain criteria, of which you should be able to have all 4 replaced, after a rotation. no mention of mileage, no mention of wear, no mention of prorating, which were some of the many LAME excuses given to me at first. it just goes to show that if you don't fold to the poor excuses, you probably will get what you want. now to see when the new tires will be in at the dealer.

chad

[grandam1697]

Well here is my story.........I have had this problem since about December 2002. I now have 83,400 KM (a lot of travel from work)on my 2001 Grandam GT. Anyway, i was reading and following this post for the last 2 weeks and have had time to start acting on this problem. I made an appointment with a dealer to have them check it out. Well before I could even take it in they said I would have to pay for the tires since my extended warrenty doesn't cover this problem. So I tryed Goodyear. I called a shop and they said to send in the TSB and they will have headoffice check it out and get back to me. The shop said depending on the wear on the tires they will try to work something out for me. So I have been trying to find this dang TSB to fax to them all day. I found it from the dealer and they sent it to me through fax. I decided to call Goddyear Headoffice customer service and the guy knew exactly what I was talking about.

Here is the problem with the tire/rim: The tire that GM ordered for our cars (alero/grandam) is fine, but it's the combo of the rim with the tire that is the problem. The guy seemed ****ed at GM for saying it was a tire problem and taking the blame for the issue them selves. The rim is the problem!! Only if the rims were different. Anyway he said the same to me about going to a Goodyear shop and having them call the customer service to find out about the problem. He also said depending on the wear of the tire they would do their best to help me out as a courtesy for having Goodyear tires and the known problem. As well as GM not helping me out due to being over the 60k warrenty.

The question I have (after all this is): Should I take it to get the tires replaced?? I'm on a lease and it is due in March 2004. Is it worth spending some $ to get 4 new tires if it's going back?

Thanks for reading.

[schizm99]

I took my car in for oil and lube.. Talked to them on the phone bout the tsb.."we'll check it out"! Well 1 1/2 hours later he tells me you have tire wear which will make the noise more apparent and he couldn't find the tsb on my car.. I just e-mailed it to him. I was also surprised that when they did the oil change they never reset the "change oil light" so that is gonna burn out.. I think it is time I find a new dealer!!!

[dsk727]

Just bringing this to the top in case anyone else is having this problem.

Thank god I found this thread!!!! :) :)

I was having loads of noises, replaced my rotors and pads and now more noises... took it to the dealer for intake gasket replacing and they said they heard no noises and mention the tire rubbing on rim thingy.. did not think to check here.. took car back to dealer this morning to have tech take a ride with me... he noticed the noise, said I need ceramic pad son my crossdrilled rotors.. and the tire/rim noise. Guy in dealership said I need to buy new tires...

Get to work, just so happens my boss lady has a GAGT and had the same problem. So I come on here find the number and call back the dealer, he says "Oh wait there is a TSB on this sorry we haven't had this on but 2 or 3 cars" Idiot!

I have 33,000 on my car, think they will give me 2 or 4 new tires?? I need the tires rotated but don't want to lose the good tires in the rotation....

Waiting for them to call me back, they have to order the tires I am assuming.

Denise :)

[Vintalage]

I got all new tires with my replacement.

[XDRKMANX]

What dealership did you go to?

I might have to come over this weekend and take a ride with you. My car also make a rubbing noise at low speeds.

[dsk727]

I took it Bill Kay in DG off Ogden, not where I bought my car but pretty close to my palce. You are more then welcome to come over and listen to the noise my car makes, its horrid I can't wait to get the new tires!

Denise :)

[Bigkev]

I bought the fronts only (sorry I'm on a budget, just bought a house!) - noise gone!

Hi dsk, moved from 6**26. Remember me, haven't heard from ya!:wave:

[dsk727]

Originally posted by Bigkev
Hi dsk, moved from 6**26. Remember me, haven't heard from ya!:wave:

I am just wondering how I can try and get 4 new tires, casue if I am to ever follow the guidlines of rotatig the tires I am going to get the noise again right?
Wonder if I can convince the dealer to give me 4 new tires???? perfect, just in time for winter!!!!

Kev~

Yeah I moved form LaGrange Park, now I am in Woodridge... kinda miss it but the owner turned those apts into condos...so i had to mvoe away.. have you gone over to www.chicagograndam.com lately?

Denise :)

[BLEE]

Just brought my car in, thought it was brakes..found out it was the tires, im gonna bring in my car on wednesday, and theyre gonna to the tests..and try to get me new tires...ill let u know how it goes.

[XDRKMANX]

I've brought my car into j.k. pontiac before (as a Bill Kay) complaining about this problem two or three times and they did nothing.

[dsk727]

Yeah he never said anything about there being a TSB on it, just said it was this problem and that i would need to buy new tires, then once I called him back and told him I "thought" there was a TSB on it, Even though I was looking at it right on front of me.. he came back and said yes and said he would have to order the tires and get back with me...

Have to call him back today and check status... as my warranty is very close to expiring...

Who did you talk to, I have been dealing with Jim, nice guy so far.

Denise :)

[XDRKMANX]

They're all d*cks if you ask me.

I need to get my lower intake gasket fixed again. This time I think I'm going to go to the dealer in Napervile instead.

[dsk727]

Jim called me back this morning, he got the new tires in and I am going in tomorrow morning to get 2 new front tires. I have to ask them what I am suppossed to do when I rotate my tires??

Maybe they will give me the 2 back ones once I explain to them the rotating, or I can take it to my regular dealership in Oak Lawn to get the 2 other ones once I rotate them and they make the noise.

Denise :)

[Cobra611]

Hey guys. I'm having trouble reaching the first few pages of this post. I can only view the last 3 pages. Can I get some help here, please? I have an '00 GT with 39,000 miles. For the last few thousand miles, I have been hearing a grinding, scrapping noise from my front end. I had a few mechanics check it out, thinking it was my bearings or rotors. They said they were fine, but it may be my transmission. I'm glad I checked this site out, as it seems that other people are having a similar problem. And from what I'm reading, I understand that the tires are possibly to blame? My warranty has expired, so obviously I'm not eligible for any coverage. But, what I was unable to view on this post, is there an TSB for this problem? Hey, I appreciate all your help in this matter!

thanks guys

[Cobra611]

Can someone please post the thread again from the bieginning of this. I cannot access the first 2 pages of these posts!!!


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karen8]

I waited over a year with them telling me the tires were not in yet so i called gm and not even 2 weeks later i had the tires. The lady i dealt with called once a week to the dealer to make sure i got them.

[BLEE]

well, i went to the dealership yesterday and got two new fron tires...ive replaced one of my rear tires...about 2 months ago..so i have 3 new tires..and one with 31k miles on them..lol
should i just replace that one too?

[rkilling1]

Originally posted by schizm99
I was also surprised that when they did the oil change they never reset the "change oil light" so that is gonna burn out.. I think it is time I find a new dealer!!!

i am assuming that the 2000 is pretty much the same as the 2001. so you should be able to reset that light yourself. just read the owners manual.