Subaru Forrester Vs. Misubishi Oulander Comparison

[peeps]

Tasha and I are looking to trade in her ZX2 and as of today, either purchase a Subaru Forester or a Mitsubishi Outlander (so far, our finalists). We would like to have a 4 cyl auto with decent power and fuel economy and have the ability to carry large items in the $20-25K range fully loaded. Tasha also wants to be able to be slightly elevated. I have compilesd a list of pros and cons for each. If you guys can think of any more from experience or friends, etc, please add them to this thread.

Fully loaded the prices are comparable...

Subaru Forester
Specs
Horizontally opposed 4-cylinder (2.5L)
165 hp @ 5600 rpm
166 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
4-speed auto w/ AWD

Pros
Interior styling
Rear cargo capacity
engine power
safety
comfort
6th model year so bugs have been worked out
2400 lb towing capacity

Cons
Exterior styling - more of a wagon than an SUV
rear passenger room
ride height

Mitsubishi Outlander
Specs
2.4L Inline 4
140 hp @ 5000 RPM
157 lb-ft@ 2500 RPM
Sport-tronic 4 speed auto w/ AWD

Pros
Interior styling
exterior styling
ride height
Rear passenger room
comfort
6th model year so bugs have been worked out

Cons
engine power
rear cargo room
1500 lb towing capacity
1st model year so all bugs might not be worked out
no safety tests yet

We have considdered the Ford Escape (4 cyl underpowered - 127 hp), Xterra (poor gas mileage and rides like a truck), don't really like the Honda CRV (styling, rear mounted spare, and very small rear cargo area), an the same goes for the Rav-4 (see Honda), the Santa Fe is hideous almost at an Aztek level.

Does anyone know of any that I am forgetting? Also, if you can add any points for the cars I listed above, I would appreciate it!

[peeps]

Also on the Forester, is $1,650 under invoice ($24,271 invoice) a good price for a demo model with 6,000 miles? What % of invoice should I shoot for for a demo with 6,000 miles?

Jason E? any help?

[Greed4Speed]

I wouldn't get a 4cyl SUV. They are not aerodynamic and the 4 banger has to work extra hard to overcome that. Personal experience there.

A modern 6 Cyl will usually only get 1-2 mpg less in town but will usually get 1-2 mpg more on the highway, and have more power going up hills, passing etc. I wouldn't worry too much about safety tests. Most SUV's are substandard in safety anyway. They don't have to live up to the same standards as a car so the manufacturers don't make them. The exceptions being BMW and the likes.

One of my Bro-in-laws has the 6 cyl Escape and really likes it, but claims it is more of a car chassis than a truck.

Don't look solely at the HP number either. Look at the RPMs that the peek occurs and ask yourself if the engine will be in those RPM's very often. A little less peak power at a lower RPM is better for a SUV (especially if you'll be towing anything or hauling) as well as most daily driven cars, but you have to take in the entire torque curve and the gearing. Only way to tell that on a new car is by feel. See how well it accelerates and get it up on a highway and pass someone like you would on a 2 lane.

Also, which one handles better? (The taller it is the easier it is to flip) Which one is more comfortable to sit in and drive? Which one does SHE feel more comfortable with? Very important since its her car.

[peeps]

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
I wouldn't get a 4cyl SUV. They are not aerodynamic and the 4 banger has to work extra hard to overcome that. Personal experience there.

A modern 6 Cyl will usually only get 1-2 mpg less in town but will usually get 1-2 mpg more on the highway, and have more power going up hills, passing etc. I wouldn't worry too much about safety tests. Most SUV's are substandard in safety anyway. They don't have to live up to the same standards as a car so the manufacturers don't make them. The exceptions being BMW and the likes.

One of my Bro-in-laws has the 6 cyl Escape and really likes it, but claims it is more of a car chassis than a truck.

Don't look solely at the HP number either. Look at the RPMs that the peek occurs and ask yourself if the engine will be in those RPM's very often. A little less peak power at a lower RPM is better for a SUV (especially if you'll be towing anything or hauling) as well as most daily driven cars, but you have to take in the entire torque curve and the gearing. Only way to tell that on a new car is by feel. See how well it accelerates and get it up on a highway and pass someone like you would on a 2 lane.

Also, which one handles better? (The taller it is the easier it is to flip) Which one is more comfortable to sit in and drive? Which one does SHE feel more comfortable with? Very important since its her car. Thanks for the feedback. After driving both of them myself (and putting the Suburu through a more than aggressive test drive, myself and the salesman), I feel they have adequate power and handling capabilities for what we would be using it for (transporting large items from home depot or the likes that I could not fit in the GAGT). The Subaru handles beautifully, better than the GAGT on H&R's if it had performance tires with stiff sidewalls thanks to the AWD. As far as safety, it is the only one we looked at that does not require the government rollover warning. We both like the Subaru for safety reasons and since she drives ~100 miles per day in half city, half highway traffic, gas mileage is very important.

As for the power, the engine is the base Impreza engine, so if it turns out that one day we start wanting to haul something with it, there should be sufficient power adders if we feel that it needs it. I can't anticipate ever needing to haul anything more than 500-1,000 lbs in it's lifetime (Personal Water Craft...someday).

As for your gas mileage generalization, al the 6 cyl we looked at got at most 21 mpg highway with city no more than 15. The Subaru and Mitsubishi both got about 27-28 highway and 21 city.

Ask your brother in law how he likes long trips in teh Escape. My butt started to hurt after only the 15 minute test drive. The seats are probably the most uncomfortable seats I had ever sat on. The ride and power were nice, but again, the fuel economy was 25% less than the V6 in my GAGT.

I think we have our minds made up right now, but feel free to add. I still may be missing something.

[Jason E]

peeps,

What incentives are being run on new Foresters? Do they have 0%? 0% probably will not be available on a demo of any nature...its a used car. Subaru I'm sure does have some sort of demo kickback given to a dealer...hence why they have demos in the first place.

What would I do? Ask them to show you the dealer invoice, unless you have already confirmed it through a source like Edmunds. Then, I would say "ok, whats holdback?" Holdback is the amount a dealer gets from the company for selling any vehicle...rather than a markup though, its built into the invoice price. If you can snag the car for invoice, minus the holdback, minus any incentives (aka rebates) being given on a new Forester, then I would consider it. And ask them to SHOW you the holdback amount...its on the invoice. On a GM invoice, its ACCT 310 (I wonder how many GM reps are mad I just said that :D)...I'm sure Subaru has their own lingo. Tell them your uncle used to work for a Subaru dealer, and he said to ask to see the invoice and the holdback amount. Play hardball...if they want to sell you, they won't screw around.

Another thing to keep in mind is the trade...off their "cost," they will NOT give you much for the ZX2...they have no reason to. Expect a wholesale number. Email me the specs on the ZX2, and I can look up what wholesale is in my wholesale guide at work on Monday. I need options, mileage, tranny, year, etc...if they give you wholesale for your car off this "invoice - holdback - rebate" price, you're doing ok.

So in summary, what are you gaining by getting this 6k mile car over a new one? Holdback. Depending on the % holdback Subie builds in, it could be around a grand to 1,300 on a car that price. Thats probably the best you can hope for, unless they're eager.

And finally, what gives with no Vibe? :) I'd definitely prefer the Vibe to the Outlander...I don't really know how it stacks up to the Subie.

Good luck whatever happens

[peeps]

Thanks for the response....

Yeah, I got the invoice price off of KBB and he gave the selling price to me which was $1650 below the invoice price on KBB.

The specs on the ZX2 are as follows:
2000 Black ZX2
2.0L Zetec Engine
Auto tranny
AM/FM/Cassette
AC, PW, PL
Leather steering wheel
leather gearshift
Cruise
54,000 miles
Body and paint is in good shape minus normal rock chips
Interior is clean with perfect upholstery

We (I) considered the Vibe until I realized that the uplevel engine is only available with the manual, which she does not want. :(

Thanks for the help!

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by peeps
Thanks for the response....

Yeah, I got the invoice price off of KBB and he gave the selling price to me which was $1650 below the invoice price on KBB.

The specs on the ZX2 are as follows:
2000 Black ZX2
2.0L Zetec Engine
Auto tranny
AM/FM/Cassette
AC, PW, PL
Leather steering wheel
leather gearshift
Cruise
54,000 miles
Body and paint is in good shape minus normal rock chips
Interior is clean with perfect upholstery

We (I) considered the Vibe until I realized that the uplevel engine is only available with the manual, which she does not want. :(

Thanks for the help!

Uplevel engine is also only FWD. I think they really dropped the ball with that car. Every mag I read says the Matrix/Vibe just doeesn't perform well at all, the engine really has to rev and that AWD is only availible on the lower power one. I think the only solution for that thing is boost.

I'd say go with the Outback. I really think almost every Mitsu I have ever seen is damn ugly, save the Galant, 3000GTs, and Eclipses from the past.

[peeps]

Originally posted by peeps
[BThe specs on the ZX2 are as follows:
2000 Black ZX2
2.0L Zetec Engine
Auto tranny
AM/FM/Cassette
AC, PW, PL
Leather steering wheel
leather gearshift
Cruise
54,000 miles
Body and paint is in good shape minus normal rock chips
Interior is clean with perfect upholstery

[/B] also, the car has tilt and power steering.

[Mike3800]

The Forrester has a better AWD system

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by Mike3800
The Forrester has a better AWD system

I'd hope so since they specialize in that :)

[Jason E]

peeps,

Didnt have a chance to get to it today...I was too damn busy selling stuff :) I just wrote down the specs...I'll either IM you or post what I find here tomorrow.

[peeps]

Well, here is the run down on the deal we made tonight.

They shorted us $2K on the trade
Sold the car for $1700 under invoice and threw in a 80,000 mile warranty with $100 deductible ($1200 value) through bargaining since he would not come down on the price.

So a loss of $800 isn't too bad! :D

I will post pics soon.....