Motor swap

[STRMurphy]

Ok, Ive been keeping it to myself for a bit, and saving up the cash to do it, and its finally come time to give it a try, but wanted to get some second thoughts on it first. Back in the spring I was looking for a supercharger off of an older Buick or Grand Prix to put on my car... went to a junkyard and before the guy would sell it to me he called up a buddy of his who is a GM mechanic. Guy said it wouldnt work, a SC from a 90 degree engine to a 60 degree... bummer. But, the guy said he was currently working on a project that sounded very tasty. He is putting a GTP supercharged 3.8l in his GA, and said he might be able to do mine closer to the fall. Well, Ive got enough cash saved up, found the motor for $750 (a wicked good deal from a great source), but Im having second thoughts. Seems like a huge project, wouldnt be able to keep the weak tranny from the GA, and would require lots of things to get changed out or modified... anyone ever try this or heard of anyone who was successful in doing it? Im power hungry and would love that (slightly) bigger, more powerful motor under the hood, but I dont know if it will be worth it...

[Jagey]

I think somebody might have done it, but it ended up being a photoshop hoax. You would have to do a lot of custom mounting, new computer crap, new tranny, and then try and get it all to work together properly. Lots and lots of work and money, but anything is possible if you try hard enough.

[cavingman]

someone claimed they did it, but was proven to be bull****tin.

your right though, LOTS of custom work.

[jaketuff]

You will want the 4t65E/HD from the GT/GTP. The 4t45e will not last with the setup unless you heavily (read $$$$) build it up. Raybestos will be developing clutchpacks for us towards the end of this year, but since you will be custom fabbing the cradle for the 3800, you are better off with the whole GTP drivetrain.
The GTP tranny can be found at similar prices to the motor, if not cheaper. You will need custom driveshafts for this tranny $6-800 to fit under the GAGT body.

You will also need a cowl hood, this will be needed to accomodate the taller GTP motor. Unless your friend manages to make a drop in the cradle to increase hood clearance, but this may be very difficult (not worth it). A cowl hood would have to be custom made, $500-1k.

The PCM(GTP) to BCM interaction will not work on the GTP PCM/GA BCM. The body controls of the car will not function... you will need to ask some of the engineers here spoon , elrod , what can be done to overcome this issue. Not expensive too overcome, but know how is hard to come by...

The car would be an ANIMAL if you managed to complete the swap. Everyone would exchange mad props with you and as a major benefit you would have the pride and an ultimate performance fwd ride. Also you would likely receive mad poontang as well, which could make the entire swap really payoff.

Seriously, you would be looking at a cost of around $5500 for the whole shibang. I can tell you right now that many of us here have spent way more than that on the car over time - although we were determined not too... and nobody that I know of has done this swap. GO FOR IT!:thumbs:

JOUT

[87gase]

hey i am actually thinking of the same swap....
i heard that a 5 speed out of a 3.1 cav will fit onto that and im gunna use all the linkages and clutch.. and the shifter apparently it will all fit. and can handle 250 horse so ill be ok in that respect.
next the 3.8 is supposedly supposed to "slide" into place in my 1987 grand am SE since i have teh 3.0 litre v6 already. the only thing i am supposed to have to move is the tranny mount. because it is the cav tranny and its supposed to move back 1.5 inches. if anyone has any advice for me please let me know sometime soon because i wanna start this next week!!

[PontiacGT2K]

Originally posted by STRMurphy
Ok, Ive been keeping it to myself for a bit, and saving up the cash to do it, and its finally come time to give it a try, but wanted to get some second thoughts on it first. Back in the spring I was looking for a supercharger off of an older Buick or Grand Prix to put on my car... went to a junkyard and before the guy would sell it to me he called up a buddy of his who is a GM mechanic. Guy said it wouldnt work, a SC from a 90 degree engine to a 60 degree... bummer. But, the guy said he was currently working on a project that sounded very tasty. He is putting a GTP supercharged 3.8l in his GA, and said he might be able to do mine closer to the fall. Well, Ive got enough cash saved up, found the motor for $750 (a wicked good deal from a great source), but Im having second thoughts. Seems like a huge project, wouldnt be able to keep the weak tranny from the GA, and would require lots of things to get changed out or modified... anyone ever try this or heard of anyone who was successful in doing it? Im power hungry and would love that (slightly) bigger, more powerful motor under the hood, but I dont know if it will be worth it...

Just do it! It's going to be as hard as any other motor swap, that's what you're getting into, expect trouble. Then again....the benefits will be amazing. Slap a new pully on the SC, headers, exhaust, you'll be running 12's np.

[waffler]

just get a supercharger itll be cheaper and probably better

[zx7ninja]

Originally posted by 87gase
hey i am actually thinking of the same swap....
i heard that a 5 speed out of a 3.1 cav will fit onto that and im gunna use all the linkages and clutch.. and the shifter apparently it will all fit. and can handle 250 horse so ill be ok in that respect.
next the 3.8 is supposedly supposed to "slide" into place in my 1987 grand am SE since i have teh 3.0 litre v6 already. the only thing i am supposed to have to move is the tranny mount. because it is the cav tranny and its supposed to move back 1.5 inches. if anyone has any advice for me please let me know sometime soon because i wanna start this next week!!

I'm not sure which yranny that is, but from what i've gathered the Getrag 282 or 284 are the tranny's to look for. Hope this helps you any.
I actually got this project very far into the technical/planning phases TWICE and ran out of cash both times.(forst time I got laid off, second I blew it all on stereo equipment.:) stupid, but oh does a few thousand watts sound good:D )
I'm actually trying to do it a third time. I'll finish this time, I promise....
Anyway, it'll be hard, but good luck. I hope one of you finishes it before I do, it'll make my work that much easier. lol
Hope it works out for you all.

[ericm555]

I have seen this swap done to a Beretta before. It is by no means easy. The GTP ECU can be placed in the engine bay. You can actually keep your factory ECU to control some things but it will be mostly brain dead. The major issue is custom mounts and axles.
http://www.angelfire.com/super2/3800sc/GTX1.jpg

[aleroboy]

Ahh yes the swap...
Many have wanted to guess none really have.
honestly when you can get 260 wheel hp out of the 3400 whats the point?
my car has tons of custom work. but the computer and tranny are still stock.
my car is all bolt ons.
you can do a custom turbo or supercharger kit for less work and cash than a swap.
Tell ya what. If I did a swap it would be for the new 3.6L V6
somthing about 250+ hp out of a naturally asperated V6 that turns me on.
Not to mention in a few years gm will be stuffing it in everything.
I'd also like to see what the new pontiac models will have in the next few years.

[STRMurphy]

Part of the reason I want to do a swap is the added power, heck, if I could drop a V8 in there I would in an instant, but the other reason is its a rare occurance, my car would essentially be one of a kind. Im not knocking SC or turbo guys, or guys who go all out and change every part in the engine for something aftermarket, its just all those are getting more and more common... I almost bought a 96 with a blower on it that I saw on ebay orsomething, just cause Id never seen a GA with a blower (came to find out the only GA part of it was the body... frame and most everything else were cavi). Im still getting the details of this project worked out, but thanks to everyone who provided feedback. If it ever happens, Ill be sure to personnally thank everone who has helped me along the way, and fart in the faces of the nay-sayers :)

[Knappy1]

Check out the J-body sites. I know there are a few guys over there that have done this swap. It actually sounds like they are turning towards the 3400 now. I guess the swap is much easier and with a turbo, they can get the same or better performance than from a 3800. There is some very good info there.
Rob

[87gase]

so what everyone on here is saying to do a 3400 swap instead of the 3800????? i was thinking the 3800 5 speed because no one i have seen around have done it and i even am on like 5-8 GA websites and i ask the same questions mainly on each one and everyone says teh same thing.... i have never seen that before.....
i talked to a mechanic friend who is doing a 3400 swap into a cav and he says it should not be that much more work to swap to a GTP 3800.:thumbs: i dont have a clue but i wanna do a swap soon.... all im thinking is that a 3400 would cost maybe 2/3's of what the GTP 3800 does BUT! then you need all the turbo's and junk to boost it to the same hosepower as the 3800..... would the 3.1 cav tranny bolt to a 3400??? would i still have to change my mounts all around?? and get different drive axles?? like if i have to preform all the same things as i have to for the 3800 i would rather do the 3800 just because then i dont have to go and get all the turbo's.. i could save that money and get other swaps for the 3.8

[aleroboy]

being your car is an 87 I'd go 3800
shouldnt be to hard to bolt it in

[87gase]

should be a bolt in???
thats what i heard from my buddy he said i would only have to change the tranny mount
correct?

[Ant]

didn't the "BettyRacer" from *** drop a V8 in his GA? I would think that would be way harder than putting an oversized(for lack of a better word) V6 in. my $.02

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by 87gase
should be a bolt in???
thats what i heard from my buddy he said i would only have to change the tranny mount
correct?

I belive so but I've never really looked that deep into it.

[G-16]

i think most people with a GA have thought about doin this. if anyone really gets this done please post all the results

[Midwest Kid]

kewl beaners.. GA guys are trying to get my GP motor in there car and im tryin to think of a V8 RWD setup on my GP. The irony of it all. ;)

[aleroboy]

I'll be doing a 98 ga with a 98 gtp engine soon
the guy has the engine we just need a few parts before we get started.
the car it was out of was severly damaged but has low miles.
I'll have pix when the car is done

[KrazyDave]

i think you can use the rear end out of a pontiac 6000 all wheel drive rear end but dont quote me on it i have seen the all wheel drive one and it was a few years ago

[phantom505]

I know this post is old... but we don't even need the 65...

Stick with the 45 and build it. It's 100 lbs lighter. If GM wasn't so big on building up the 65 then they would hardly have anything either. However, now that better friction plates and a LSD is readily available no need to swap. When people acutally get the power level that the 45 breaks, we'll make it stronger. :thumbs:

[crazypontiac03]

Go For it!!,if you have the time and ability to do it then do it, it will be the sweetest GA out there! Ill be right behind you as soon as mine is paid off :)