Ugly Black Mirrors on 2003!

[Baddest Gyal]

I have had my 03' GT for about 9 months now and I can't stand the black side mirrors! Mt car is Summit White and I find that the mirrors just look like a poor after-though!:confused:

I am trying to get the old GT moulded colour keyed mirrors to replace my ugly black ones, has anyone had this done and are there any suggestions on how I should go about doing this?

I love my GT except there are a few things that really bother me like:
#1. Black side mirrors!
#2. No heated seat option available- if anyone can advise me on the best way to go about getting this done I would really appreciate it!
#3. Passenger Front Seat is very low- is there anyway to have the seat adjusted?
#4. Rear view mirror- would like to replace with compass/temperature mirror- any suggestions?

Please Help!

:D

[STRMurphy]

1- You can have the mirrors painted
2- Think I saw the heated seat on gaupgrades.net
3- there was a thread just recently about seats, probably dont want to mess with them due to safety considerations
4- Also on gaupgrades.net

[Baddest Gyal]

I will not be satisfied with just painting them as they are ugly in shape- I find the moulded mirrors look sleeker and suit the car better.

The only negative thing that I have heard about the moulded mirrors are that they vibrate a lot- is this true?

[InspectorGAGT]

Don't know about the mirrors, but a heated seat kit and electrochromic rearview mirror w/compass are available at PFYC.com.

[Mike Jung]

Originally posted by Baddest Gyal
...The only negative thing that I have heard about the moulded mirrors are...
They break off easily.

Some people have had their side view mirrors break off in car washes.

[GTLUVA]

I had my new 30th Annivesary since April 30 and I hated the black mirrors since. When I traded in my 2000 GT I should have kept my dual post mirrors but I couldn't. But I ordered the mirrors off GM PARTS DIRECT for only $94 with tax and shipping and handling. But I still don't know how much they are going to charge to paint them for me I guess I will see when the bill arrives. ;) But personaly I think the dual posts were great on my 2000 now problems at all and they would attract less bugs too. Now my black ones attract pollen and bugs and the one on the right is starting to fade:mad:

[02andahalfgt]

I don't know about vibration, but I noticed a lot of wind noise on my '00 SE compared to my '02 GT with the Alero mirrors. I'd still consider getting new mirrors though, in my oppinion the dual posted mirrors look so much better on a GT. Bad switch by GM, but they're just trying to save money on the last two and a half years of production. :mad:

IIRC, painting for the mirrors at the dealership is like $150, or somewhere around there.

[Tonyyank]

Go to a junk yard and find some "older" mirrors, see if they match and then paint them :)

[jscarano13]

sorry so late but i had to..
1.JunkYard
2.PFYC.com
3.Phonebook lol
4.PFYC.com

[MasterPejaul]

I'm with you on this one... i have a 2003 and all the older models look better w/ the colored mirrors. I guess GM decided to cut costs and put cheap ass black mirrors on.

[SpyhunteR]

I had mine painted for $40 at my dealership.. :) only good thing I ever got out of that place... Their body shop rules, their repair work is superb...

however the rest of the dealership is about as great as a straitened slinky....

[MasterPejaul]

do u have any pics of how they look painted?
thanks

[Houston99]

The mirrors are pretty much universal..You may put a post up to trade someone your new ones for the old style...It was a pretty pathetic cost savings move by GM to switch to those, the difference between the Old's and GA's is a single wire now..

[Blackalero3400]

older fierbird mirrors should fit ours too i hear.... another option

[Alkaholik]

I was wondering what everyone has done with the ugly black mirrors, I've had mine for so long now

[GTLUVA]

As soon as the body shop puts mine on for me I'm going to sell mine on Ebay for big money:thumbs:

[XMBlackGT1]

Originally posted by Alkaholik
I was wondering what everyone has done with the ugly black mirrors, I've had mine for so long now


Ive got the twin post mirrors on my 03. Bought them from gmpartsdirect.com. I ordered heated seat kits from partsforyourcar.com. Not sure how to get the seat higher, i like it lower. And, you can get the mirror with compas and whatnot from partsforyourcar.com.

Here is a link to my page that has a bunch of my gagt pix on it- there are some pix showing the twin post mirrors.

http://community.webshots.com/user/abercrombie220

Let me know what you think.

[XMBlackGT1]

Originally posted by GTLUVA
As soon as the body shop puts mine on for me I'm going to sell mine on Ebay for big money:thumbs:



I had warranty paint my Mickey Mouse Ears because they were faded- they painted them orange, the color of the car. I am going to keep em because, knowing my luck, I will snap one of these off, and can use the Alero mirror as a temp replacement.

[fo44rd]

I have this posted elsewere on this forum, but I feel it is a good piece of reading for this particular post. I was in rare form that night And would like to share it again. Once again, if you have already read this sorry for the double posting:
*repost* *repost* *repost*

Where toyota and Honda strive to make a superior product year after year......i.e. the product usually gets better over time the domestics choose the low road.
They make a new product and then look to cut costs every year.

The grand am; introduced in 1999 as a 2 and 4 door in both gt and se versions. By 2000 the nice cloth inserts in the doors were gone and now replaced by a nice fake leather substitute. By 2002 SE recieves the alero mirrors. Mid year 2002 grand am badge disappear off all doors (se and gt). Gt looses its painted mirrors too. The trunk key tumbler was painted black up until this point....now is left unpainted.

2003 brings more take-aways: Trunk cargo net? GONE! Glove box lock? GONE!
Front liscence plate cover? Now an option.

The seats OH MY LORD COMPAIR 99-02 SEATS TO 03-ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE FABRIC AND PADDING IS OF A NOTICABLY LOWER GRADE......AND LUMBAR SUPPORT IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2003 SE 2 door is dead. The cladding on the sides is replaced with what looks like alero moldings that are definitely cheaper. It is touted as the "clean" look. A salesmen told me 2003 model year sales were down 17 percent and he said G.M. was baffled as to why.

DID GM DO ANYTHING TO MAKE THIS CAR BETTER OVER THE RUN OF THE MODEL RUN?????????
DID GM FIX THE WINDOW REGULATOR, LEAKING LOWER INTAKE PROBLEM, OR THE WARPPED ROTOR PROBLEM???????????
DID GM OFFER AN ENGINE COMPAIRABLE TO A VTEC HONDA V6 OR EVEN A POWER AND SMOOTHNESS LEVEL OF A FRIGGGEN TOYOTA CAMRY SOLARA V6????????

NO AND NO.............JUST SLAP THEM TOGETHER AND RAISE THE PRICE AND KEEP MAKING AN ENGINE THAT TRACES IT ROOTS BACK TO A CITATION FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! WASN'T UPPED IN POWER ONCE.....THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST SUPERCHARGED IT!!!!!!
ALL THEY DID WAS TAKE AWAY, DEVELOP NOTHING, AND RAISE THE STICKER PRICE THEN WONDER WHY THEY HAVE TO SLAP $4,000 PLUS CASH BACK TO SELL A CAR THAT IF THEY INVESTED A LITTLE IN WOULD RETAIN BETTER RESALE VALUE AND BE MORE DESIRABLE TO PURCHASE NEW!!!
SORRY FOR YELLING!!!!!!

[AznGA]

Whoa, easy there buddy, you don't have to post in caps. We agree with you. When GA was redesigned for 99 model year, it was competive, but Pontiac fell behind because they keep the same design for at least 5 years. Just wait till G6 comes out.

I had dual post mirrors, but I got sick of them because I see them on so many Grand Am's and Grand Prix's, so I switched to new Oval ones. Sorry, I already sold my old ones. But the new ones are impact resistant because they bend.

[99GApunk]

my white 99 has black dual post mirrors and i love them, id never paint them to match the car

[fo44rd]

DIDN'T mean to offend by posting in caps...........however I felt the parts in caps were the most important.........therfore the emphasis was added.

[crazypontiac03]

you can also find them on ebay, just have them painted to match your car.

[AznGA]

DIDN'T mean to offend by posting in caps...........however I felt the parts in caps were the most important.........therfore the emphasis was added.
I Know. Where is your town at? I used to live in Schaumburg.

[crazypontiac03]

I live about 15 mins from schaumburg if that just south of Elgin, out by crystal lake and west dundee area

[AznGA]

Ya, Jon told me about you. I will be glad to meet you sometime.

[fo44rd]

Whoa, easy there buddy, you don't have to post in caps. We agree with you. When GA was redesigned for 99 model year, it was competive, but Pontiac fell behind because they keep the same design for at least 5 years. Just wait till G6 comes out.

I had dual post mirrors, but I got sick of them because I see them on so many Grand Am's and Grand Prix's, so I switched to new Oval ones. Sorry, I already sold my old ones. But the new ones are impact resistant because they bend.


The reason the grand am fell behind is the same reason all domestics fall behind. It is in the body of my text above. The domestic make a product and find ways to make it cheaper as the years go by, as opposed to better........Imagine if gm would have invested a minor amount of $$$$ in the ga program.......

IMAGINE WITH ME FOR A MINUTE...........

Imagine a 2002 (it would be a good year for re-freshening) gt with NOTHING TAKEN AWAY FROM IT, upgraded brakes that don't warp and stop better, a refreshened interior and the instrument binnacle now includes voltage and oil pressure gauges - remember those, i kind of do.....3 spoke steering wheel, window regulators that don't break in 50,000 miles, manumatic shift mode and a redone dashboard finish the interior. Enter the torqued chrometech wheels and limit slip for GTs. A GTP edition with a supercharged 3400 (oh lets say 220 horse) with limited slip, 18 inch wheels, the s/ct hood and spoiler is added.


In 2002 and a half....the mirror issue is resolved. Supposedly there was a wind noise issue with the mirrors at highway speeds. gm puts the mirrors they put on the last of the last generation grand prix.......the same dual post mirror, but it has a wind channel on the bottom of the mirror....oh the stay painted too!!!!!!

In 2003 refreshened front and back sheetmetal and facsias (possibly run some tighter creases in the front sheetmetal, redo the front end in a slightly edgier fashion (a la 92-95 grand ams), sharpen up the rear quarters, redo the tail lights and facsias). Instead of putting the black pimply on the roof for xm spend the extra nickel to tuck it in the b pillar like the new corvettes (c6). The SE 2 door is saved along with the boy racer body cladding pontiac is famous for.

In 2004 the 3500 from the chevy mal-ee-who becomes the standard gt edition(200 horse) and the gtp edtion gets dropped (two year only). The 3500 is a natural for 2004, because it already in the mal-ee-who and will be in the ga replacement the following year, so no real cost involved there. A limited edition GTX making 280-300 horsepower, but is otherwise a gtp, but with no rear spoiler and the brake rotor are slotted on all 4 wheels!!!!!!!!. I would hope gm would squeeze 300 horse out of it, after all the GTX's would be the LAST grand ams of this body style and would the the hottest.........GTXs would be built until all demand was met for them, then production would stop for G5. The GTX would also offer a 6 speed close ratio manual transmission as an option. The floorplan/wiring exsistes....remember the 4banger 5 speeds. G6 would begin in 2005, but would still be call Grand Am .......a name with a legacy within gm.

Also throught the run image a color palette that changed more than having the same 5 color for all of the production run on the gt's. I know gold and manta green in 1999. silvermist in 2000. galaxy silver in 2001-above. dark green 2000-above. burnt orange 2003-above. Imagine the entire color palette rotated throught the years. the purple se ga's had, the medium blue, maroon, hell even a year or 2 with yellow as a choice.

WHAT WOULD ALL OF THE ABOUT COST GM????????????????

PEANUTS COMPAIRED TO ALL $4,000 PLUS CASH BACKS, TRICK FINANCING, AND FLEET GIVE AWAY SALES ON THE GRAND AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fo44rd]

AM I THE ONLY ONE TO SWITCH OVER TO OVAL MIRRORS.


I hope so........I have waged a war against them and their unpainted ways.......

:vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

they make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fo44rd]

east of the brookfield zoo

west fo cicero....the betty loren maltese town

[fo44rd]

oh yes.......DOWN WITH OVAL MIRRORS......... they symbolize all that is bad with gm and the world to me.......them....bill clinton....al gore......schumer.......bozo kerry........billary clinton...........and all liberals tring to tax my paycheck away from me and trying to tell me how to live my life

[AznGA]

I hope so........I have waged a war against them and their unpainted ways.......

:vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

they make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL, you really love caps don't you? You quoted my sig and made it all caps!!
lol

[fo44rd]

As homer simpson said as he was punching the cat (the homer has rage issues episode)....

"I'm just passonate"

I like paint on my mirrors.................

[03xGAxSE]

now that ive started working at a dealership and see some of the inner workings i can see why GM wouldent want to invest more money in to the GAs, quite simply they dont sell. ive worked there for almost 3 months and i have delivered (i work detail) 1 new and 2 used GAs, and while a 300hp GTX GA is a nice thought not gonna happen because it would then interfere with the sales of the grand prix, the bonneville and maby even the GTO not to mention other GM brands so they leave the GA where it fits best a sporty econmical grocery getter and while it may not see much success in its own right it doesnt interfere with gms other projects... now that i think about it the fact that the asian and european cars get better as the body style grows older may be the fact that they do not have so many cars running aganst each other... honda has acura, porche has vw and rolls royce, toyota has none (but gets some of its designs from GM) GM has GMC, chevy, buick, pontiac, used to have oldsmobile, saturn (and thats just in the US)... so while the other companies upgrade there old body style GM makes a new design under a diffrent name and creates a new interest into to a new car as opposed to pleasing a already established fan-base


edit: besides its more personal to make your own mods such as custom leather seats or racing seats... turbo or supercharger... you can suit it better to your own style

PS: i love my alero mirrors and my ribless body i also happen to be a liberal so ease up on the right wing-dual post propaganda j/k lol

[eric99gt]

maybe they don't sell now. but at one point it was their most poplular vehicle. And I don't even care if they added anything or what not, but at least fix the problems.

[GTLUVA]

Gm still didn't fix their window regualtor problem my car was built in April 2003 and my window regualtor and window clip broke at 10,000 miles :)

[AznGA]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5754

Grand Am still sells well.

[coupe]

UUUMMMMMM
The GA is one of GM's highest selling vehicles if not THE highest. Your dealership must suck a big one and cant sell a car to save there lives.

I think its funny you reffer to a GA as a grocery getter. I wouldnt be able to hual a whole lot in my GA GT. Its hard enough to get 4 people in it let alone a bunch of grocerys plus kids. 4 door owners may be able to do more but my 2 door is strictly for fun purposes.

[AznGA]

I have a 4 door and ya, the rear seat is not that spacious. Especially the center part have no padding.

[coupe]

My buddy has a 4 door GT and it still dont look nor feel like any type of grocery getter by any means.

[jer_stud56]

Yeah they're deffinatly not big enough if you shop once every 2 weeks or go with like 100's in food all the time. Unless you have an empty trunk and a empty back seat you can't fit much in 'em. They're "compact family cars" remember ;).

[nomojo]

Don't know about the mirrors, but a heated seat kit and electrochromic rearview mirror w/compass are available at PFYC.com.

.. where? went to PFYC.COM, clicked grand-am 1999+, clicked interior accessories.. nothing.. clicked 'other', nothing.. searched the site for the word 'compass', nothing.

Maybe I'm blind, but I cant find that compass r/v mirror, and I'd like one.. Does anyone know where I can look?

Thanks

[02andahalfgt]

They don't sell the rear view mirrors anymore. They did when this thread was started last Sept. It was just brought back to life b/c someone can't paint mirrors... or something like that, got tired of reading all the dribble. :rolleyes:

[99GApunk]

is my car a freak? my 99 has unpainted dual post mirrors... but from what i read they stopped painting after a later year... im just confused

[03xGAxSE]

UUUMMMMMM
The GA is one of GM's highest selling vehicles if not THE highest. Your dealership must suck a big one and cant sell a car to save there lives.


i can tell ya that we sell alot more trucks and yukon denalis than we do GAs but i live in colorado where people need the biggest suv they can possably afford for that blizzard we get like every 5 years :rolleyes: and our salesman may not be pushing the ga as hard as they should. but i can tell ya that our dealership is quite sucessful they're the 2nd largest dealer chain in colorado, second only to the autonation corperation which is a national chain

[02andahalfgt]

is my car a freak? my 99 has unpainted dual post mirrors... but from what i read they stopped painting after a later year... im just confused

No, SE's weren't painted. My '00 SE didn't have painted dual posts either. That must be what drove the value of it down so much. :violin

[XMBlackGT1]

It doesnt seem like Pontiac stopped with any progress on the 04 GT's- they did decide to finally make the GT in the graystone metallic color. Saw two of them on a lot tonite- and they look great. I know some poeple asked for that color on GT's before- looks like they are taking some of what we say into consideration.

[highwayprowlerz]

I just recently put dual post mirrors on my '03. They are not painted yet but my car is black so it's not so bad. I got them for $108 shipped off eBay.

Yeah, they have heated seat kits on PFYC.com, I should get some of those one of these days.

[highwayprowlerz]

I have the auto dim rearview mirror with digital compass. Paid $50 off eBay. It came out of a '99 Tahoe.

[Vintalage]

The reason the grand am fell behind is the same reason all domestics fall behind. It is in the body of my text above. The domestic make a product and find ways to make it cheaper as the years go by, as opposed to better........Imagine if gm would have invested a minor amount of $$$$ in the ga program.......

IMAGINE WITH ME FOR A MINUTE...........

Imagine a 2002 (it would be a good year for re-freshening) gt with NOTHING TAKEN AWAY FROM IT, upgraded brakes that don't warp and stop better, a refreshened interior and the instrument binnacle now includes voltage and oil pressure gauges - remember those, i kind of do.....3 spoke steering wheel, window regulators that don't break in 50,000 miles, manumatic shift mode and a redone dashboard finish the interior. Enter the torqued chrometech wheels and limit slip for GTs. A GTP edition with a supercharged 3400 (oh lets say 220 horse) with limited slip, 18 inch wheels, the s/ct hood and spoiler is added.


In 2002 and a half....the mirror issue is resolved. Supposedly there was a wind noise issue with the mirrors at highway speeds. gm puts the mirrors they put on the last of the last generation grand prix.......the same dual post mirror, but it has a wind channel on the bottom of the mirror....oh the stay painted too!!!!!!

In 2003 refreshened front and back sheetmetal and facsias (possibly run some tighter creases in the front sheetmetal, redo the front end in a slightly edgier fashion (a la 92-95 grand ams), sharpen up the rear quarters, redo the tail lights and facsias). Instead of putting the black pimply on the roof for xm spend the extra nickel to tuck it in the b pillar like the new corvettes (c6). The SE 2 door is saved along with the boy racer body cladding pontiac is famous for.

In 2004 the 3500 from the chevy mal-ee-who becomes the standard gt edition(200 horse) and the gtp edtion gets dropped (two year only). The 3500 is a natural for 2004, because it already in the mal-ee-who and will be in the ga replacement the following year, so no real cost involved there. A limited edition GTX making 280-300 horsepower, but is otherwise a gtp, but with no rear spoiler and the brake rotor are slotted on all 4 wheels!!!!!!!!. I would hope gm would squeeze 300 horse out of it, after all the GTX's would be the LAST grand ams of this body style and would the the hottest.........GTXs would be built until all demand was met for them, then production would stop for G5. The GTX would also offer a 6 speed close ratio manual transmission as an option. The floorplan/wiring exsistes....remember the 4banger 5 speeds. G6 would begin in 2005, but would still be call Grand Am .......a name with a legacy within gm.

Also throught the run image a color palette that changed more than having the same 5 color for all of the production run on the gt's. I know gold and manta green in 1999. silvermist in 2000. galaxy silver in 2001-above. dark green 2000-above. burnt orange 2003-above. Imagine the entire color palette rotated throught the years. the purple se ga's had, the medium blue, maroon, hell even a year or 2 with yellow as a choice.

WHAT WOULD ALL OF THE ABOUT COST GM????????????????

PEANUTS COMPAIRED TO ALL $4,000 PLUS CASH BACKS, TRICK FINANCING, AND FLEET GIVE AWAY SALES ON THE GRAND AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree totally. Look at what Honda did with their current civic. They added a hybrid for 2003 with exclusive front, side, and rear skirt flares and tailz. The sedan civics received new tails only. Then this year, the civic received a freshend more aggressive front end, the flares that the hybrid had, a new bright instrument cluster using optitron guages (like the ones found in the new accords) along with some other interior enhancements, and coupes got new tailz. These changes made the civic more appealing and brought back life into the sales. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and many other import manufactuers do the same. Hell, even Hyundai refreshes their vehicles. GM did not for GA. Retails for the same or more than it did when it debuted. It's a rip off.


http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/470000-470999/470415_9_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/590000-590999/590755_16_full.jpg
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http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/590000-590999/590755_11_full.jpg

Oh and wait...no nasty amber sidemarker that sticks out.

I have to ask myself what am I paying for?

[03xGAxSE]

yeah honda has to revamp their designs so often because it grows old... gm makes a new car... i would rather have a brand new design over a revamped 6 year old design

[99GApunk]

the grand am has changed drastically in looks over the years, just not recently. most of the problems that have gone unchanged that ive heard mentioned were all minor visual aspects

no big deal if you ask me

[Vintalage]

yeah honda has to revamp their designs so often because it grows old... gm makes a new car... i would rather have a brand new design over a revamped 6 year old design

Wrong. And if you haven't notice, it's the GA that's going on year 6. The previous gen civic was out '96-'00. It was refreshed for '99 and they added the Si model. The current gen civic came out in '01 and was refreshed for '04. I believe the next gen civic is due out for 2006. It's GM who takes things away, not add things like Honda, Toyota, or Nissan have done. Need I mention Altima?

Gm doesn't want to refresh because they don't want to throw out more $$$. They talk but don't deliever. Case in point. The Hotwheels/GXP Grand am and the American tuner Grand am. They show us these concepts and tease us but don't produce it. WTF???

So I don't know what your talkin' about. :rolleyes:

[fo44rd]

yeah honda has to revamp their designs so often because it grows old... gm makes a new car... i would rather have a brand new design over a revamped 6 year old design

You have a case of blind loyalty...........educate yourself better.......lexus AND scion are made by Toyota.........

[fo44rd]

... honda has acura, porche has vw and rolls royce, toyota has none (but gets some of its designs from GM) GM has GMC, chevy, buick, pontiac, used to have oldsmobile, saturn (and thats just in the US)... so while the other companies upgrade there old body style GM makes a new design under a diffrent name and creates a new interest into to a new car as opposed to pleasing a already established fan-base


edit: besides its more personal to make your own mods such as custom leather seats or racing seats... turbo or supercharger... you can suit it better to your own style

PS: i love my alero mirrors and my ribless body i also happen to be a liberal so ease up on the right wing-dual post propaganda j/k lol


COUNTERPOINT #1: PORSCHE IS AN INDEPENDANT COMPANY!!!!!!!!!! The collaberated with VW for their SUV. V.W. OWNS Audi and Bentley...NOT ROLLS ROYCE..........B.M.W. OWNS ROLLS ROYCE.

COUNTERPOINT #2: Oldsmobile is dead!!!!!! G.M. killed it!!!!!!!!!!

COUNTERPOINT #3: WHAT F#$@ING BODY STYLE DOES GM "SHARE" WITH TOYOTA......vibe and matrix are a joint venture using g.m. workers and toyota parts, but vibe and matrix DO NOT SHARE ANY SHEETMETAL!!!!!!

COUNTERPOINT #4: PERSONALIZED CARS DETRACT FROM RESALE VALUES......ALSO, IN MY OPINION, THE ONLY REASON TO "CUSTOMIZE" IS THE VEHICLE DID NOT COME FROM THE FACTORY THE WAY YOU WANTED IT!!!!!!!

COUNTERPOINT #5: The fact you like the alero mirrors and the fact they took stuff (body cladding) away and raised the price.....i.e. less stuff for more money.....makes me question your thought process!

COUNTERPOINT #6: "so while the other companies upgrade there old body style GM makes a new design under a diffrent name and creates a new interest into to a new car as opposed to pleasing a already established fan-base"
IF YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL NAMEPLATE WITHA FAN BASE, WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO QUIT INVESTING IN IT, KILL IT, AND COME OUT WITH A NEW CAR WITH A DIFFERENT NAME????????

COUNTERPOINT #7: LIBERAL???????????????? I WILL PRAY FOR YOU TONIGHT!

[fo44rd]

Wrong. And if you haven't notice, it's the GA that's going on year 6. The previous gen civic was out '96-'00. It was refreshed for '99 and they added the Si model. The current gen civic came out in '01 and was refreshed for '04. I believe the next gen civic is due out for 2006. It's GM who takes things away, not add things like Honda, Toyota, or Nissan have done. Need I mention Altima?

Gm doesn't want to refresh because they don't want to throw out more $$$. They talk but don't deliever. Case in point. The Hotwheels/GXP Grand am and the American tuner Grand am. They show us these concepts and tease us but don't produce it. WTF???

So I don't know what your talkin' about. :rolleyes:


AMEN......................................GM would fire both of us in our first day there....."WHAT SPEND MONEY....MAKE PRODUCT BETTER........NEVER............YOUR FIRED................

[fo44rd]

I have this posted elsewere on this forum, but I feel it is a good piece of reading for this particular post. I was in rare form that night And would like to share it again. Once again, if you have already read this sorry for the double posting:
*repost* *repost* *repost*

Where toyota and Honda strive to make a superior product year after year......i.e. the product usually gets better over time the domestics choose the low road.
They make a new product and then look to cut costs every year.

The grand am; introduced in 1999 as a 2 and 4 door in both gt and se versions. By 2000 the nice cloth inserts in the doors were gone and now replaced by a nice fake leather substitute. By 2002 SE recieves the alero mirrors. Mid year 2002 grand am badge disappear off all doors (se and gt). Gt looses its painted mirrors too. The trunk key tumbler was painted black up until this point....now is left unpainted.

2003 brings more take-aways: Trunk cargo net? GONE! Glove box lock? GONE!
Front liscence plate cover? Now an option.

The seats OH MY LORD COMPAIR 99-02 SEATS TO 03-ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE FABRIC AND PADDING IS OF A NOTICABLY LOWER GRADE......AND LUMBAR SUPPORT IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2003 SE 2 door is dead. The cladding on the sides is replaced with what looks like alero moldings that are definitely cheaper. It is touted as the "clean" look. A salesmen told me 2003 model year sales were down 17 percent and he said G.M. was baffled as to why.

DID GM DO ANYTHING TO MAKE THIS CAR BETTER OVER THE RUN OF THE MODEL RUN?????????
DID GM FIX THE WINDOW REGULATOR, LEAKING LOWER INTAKE PROBLEM, OR THE WARPPED ROTOR PROBLEM???????????
DID GM OFFER AN ENGINE COMPAIRABLE TO A VTEC HONDA V6 OR EVEN A POWER AND SMOOTHNESS LEVEL OF A FRIGGGEN TOYOTA CAMRY SOLARA V6????????

NO AND NO.............JUST SLAP THEM TOGETHER AND RAISE THE PRICE AND KEEP MAKING AN ENGINE THAT TRACES IT ROOTS BACK TO A CITATION FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! WASN'T UPPED IN POWER ONCE.....THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST SUPERCHARGED IT!!!!!!
ALL THEY DID WAS TAKE AWAY, DEVELOP NOTHING, AND RAISE THE STICKER PRICE THEN WONDER WHY THEY HAVE TO SLAP $4,000 PLUS CASH BACK TO SELL A CAR THAT IF THEY INVESTED A LITTLE IN WOULD RETAIN BETTER RESALE VALUE AND BE MORE DESIRABLE TO PURCHASE NEW!!!
SORRY FOR YELLING!!!!!!

I hate to re-post this in the same forum yet again.....but I omitted one thing as petty as it may seem.......my 2002 has cadium lug nut for the wheels......my dad's former 2003 had plain silver ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF THEY CUT ALL THIS OUT THAT WE CAN SEE................IMAGINE WHAT THESE CLOWNS CUT OUT THE WE CANNOT SEE?????????????????????????
SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fo44rd]

No, SE's weren't painted. My '00 SE didn't have painted dual posts either. That must be what drove the value of it down so much. :violin

:stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

no.....the fact that I can buy a brand new 2004 se for 11,999.99 at my local dealer......you know, because new ones have become cash-back laden cows...........probably is driving down the values!!!!!!!

DO HONDA/TOYOTA/NISSAN OFFER $4,000 CASH BACK ON ANY OF THEIR MODELS??????

DO HONDA/TOYOTA/NISSAN HAVE TO?????????

WONDER WHY THEIR RESLE VALUE STAYS UP?????????

COME ON FORD/GM PULL THOSE COLLECTIVE HEADS OUTTA YOUR COLLECTIVE ARSES!

[03xGAxSE]

COUNTERPOINT #1: PORSCHE IS AN INDEPENDANT COMPANY!!!!!!!!!! The collaberated with VW for their SUV. V.W. OWNS Audi and Bentley...NOT ROLLS ROYCE..........B.M.W. OWNS ROLLS ROYCE.!
opps, your right i was tired, you work 19 hrs with 4.5 hrs of sleep with in a 25 hr period and try not to get your german cars mixed up...

COUNTERPOINT #2: Oldsmobile is dead!!!!!! G.M. killed it!!!!!!!!!! i mentioned that

COUNTERPOINT #3: WHAT F#$@ING BODY STYLE DOES GM "SHARE" WITH TOYOTA......vibe and matrix are a joint venture using g.m. workers and toyota parts, but vibe and matrix DO NOT SHARE ANY SHEETMETAL!!!!!! ok how could they not share the same sheet metal they look identical with diffrent facias examine them closely... and if you go back and look at the older models there is more

COUNTERPOINT #4: PERSONALIZED CARS DETRACT FROM RESALE VALUES......ALSO, IN MY OPINION, THE ONLY REASON TO "CUSTOMIZE" IS THE VEHICLE DID NOT COME FROM THE FACTORY THE WAY YOU WANTED IT well im sorry you feel that way maby you shouldent be reading in MOD section...

COUNTERPOINT #5: The fact you like the alero mirrors and the fact they took stuff (body cladding) away and raised the price.....i.e. less stuff for more money.....makes me question your thought process! the fact that i like the new look has nothing to do with the price of the car its my oppinion

COUNTERPOINT #6: "so while the other companies upgrade there old body style GM makes a new design under a diffrent name and creates a new interest into to a new car as opposed to pleasing a already established fan-base"
IF YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL NAMEPLATE WITHA FAN BASE, WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO QUIT INVESTING IN IT, KILL IT, AND COME OUT WITH A NEW CAR WITH A DIFFERENT NAME???????? well chances are, if they like the car enough to be consitered part of the fanbase they already own one so why cater to them go for the people who dont own a GM yet

COUNTERPOINT #7: LIBERAL???????????????? I WILL PRAY FOR YOU TONIGHT! if bush gets reelected i will pray for us all! ABB (anybody but bush) in 2004... glad to see that were going to mars but cant fix our mess in iraq while we lose our jobs and civil libertys.... i wont mention the fact that we are so far in debt we cant see the light of day

[03xGAxSE]

You have a case of blind loyalty...........educate yourself better.......lexus AND scion are made by Toyota.........
i forgot about lexus and scion is a new company i thought it was just a new car DOESNT MATTER THEY ARE LAME AND DONT DESERVE MY ATTENTION!!!! ( i can also use caps and exclamation points) lol

[03xGAxSE]

Wrong. And if you haven't notice, it's the GA that's going on year 6.: sales are down and BAM the G6 is born


Gm doesn't want to refresh because they don't want to throw out more $$$. They talk but don't deliever. Case in point. The Hotwheels/GXP Grand am and the American tuner Grand am. They show us these concepts and tease us but don't produce it. WTF??? i agree that is BS but it still may come out hopefully

hey i dont wanna fight with every one on the boards, yeah there is "problems" but they are minor and if you cant deal with them then buy your beloved civic... ill deal with the "problems" and keep my GA

[fo44rd]

( i can also use caps and exclamation points) lol


liberals are not allowed to use caps

lol lol lol

[fo44rd]

i forgot about lexus and scion is a new company i thought it was just a new car DOESNT MATTER THEY ARE LAME AND DONT DESERVE MY ATTENTION!!!!


Just like a Liberal to forget facts, mislead the public, and not pay attention to a sleeping giant of an issue (scion is gonna be huge). Not that I a rooting for them, but the writing is on the wall.....Toyota Dealers are sold out and back logged on orders.......the part Toyota missed is the age demographic is still higher than the average 2 year old they wanted buying them. lol :wave:

[fo44rd]

if bush gets reelected i will pray for us all! ABB (anybody but bush) in 2004... glad to see that were going to mars but cant fix our mess in iraq while we lose our jobs and civil libertys.... i wont mention the fact that we are so far in debt we cant see the light of day


The pics and link to this site are: http://www.catsprn.com/cowboys.htm

It used to tick me off when the Muslim detractors in the Middle East, or detractors in Europe and others called our President a cowboy, but the more I think about it, the more glad I am that he is.



When I was a kid, cowboys were my heroes.



Well, I mean the ones in the white hats, not the black hats, who were usually the bad guys.



There was Tex Ritter, Tom Mix, Buck Jones,



Hopalong Cassidy, the Lone Ranger.....



there was Red Ryder, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers...



then later, there was Marshall Matt Dillon, Hoss & Li'l Joe Cartwright,



Paladin, Maverick and others...



Rawhide's Rowdy Yates



What were common attributes of these legendary cowboys?



Here are a few:

They were never looking for trouble.

But when trouble came, they faced it with courage.

They were always on the side of right.

They defended good people against bad people.

They had high morals.

They had good manners.

They were honest.

They spoke their minds and they spoke the truth, regardless of what people thought or "political correctness," which no one had ever heard of back then.

They were a beacon of integrity in the wild, wild West.

They were respected. When they walked into a saloon (where they usually drank only sarsaparilla), the place became quiet, and the bad guys kept their distance.

If in a gunfight, they could outdraw anyone. If in a fist fight, they could beat up anyone.

They always won. They always got their man. In victory, they rode off into the sunset.




Those were the days when there was such a thing as right and wrong, something blurred in our modern world, and denied by many.



Now, as an older citizen, I still like cowboys...



They represent something good -- something pure that America has been missing.



Ronald Reagan was a cowboy.



Ronald Reagan was brave, positive, and gave us hope. He wore a white hat. To the consternation of his critics, he had the courage to call a spade a spade and call the former Soviet Union what it was -- the evil empire.



President Bush distinguishes between good and evil. He calls a spade a spade, and after 9-11 called evil "evil," without mincing any words. That's what cowboys do, you know.



He also told the French to "put their cards on the table" (old West talk).



In the old West, might did not make right.



Right made might.



Cowboys in white hats were always on the side of right, and that was their might.



I am glad my President is a cowboy.



He got his man!





Cowboys do, you know.

[99GApunk]

do cowboys like unpainted dual post mirrors or something?... i'm missing the connection

[99GApunk]

sales are down and BAM the G6 is born


i agree that is BS but it still may come out hopefully

hey i dont wanna fight with every one on the boards, yeah there is "problems" but they are minor and if you cant deal with them then buy your beloved civic... ill deal with the "problems" and keep my GA

agreed, GM must be doing something right if you all bought one of their cars.

i personally dont care what they have done to my car since the year before it, because i look at the one year of car im looking at, and if its good and what i want then it is, regardless of if they changed the look or painted a set of mirrors. im not buying or driving the timeline of the grand am, just one, just one year.

warning: this post may or not make any sense whatsoever seeing as i just woke up

[Vintalage]

agreed, GM must be doing something right if you all bought one of their cars.

i personally dont care what they have done to my car since the year before it, because i look at the one year of car im looking at, and if its good and what i want then it is, regardless of if they changed the look or painted a set of mirrors. im not buying or driving the timeline of the grand am, just one, just one year.

warning: this post may or not make any sense whatsoever seeing as i just woke up

And it doesn't make sense. GM got me on the design of this car. But once I bought it and spent time with it, I found out that it's just a freakin rattle box with things always wrong with it. LIM leak. Battery fails. Turn signal relay kept clicking and had to be fixed. Front tires were making noise and had to be fixed. Front right and rear right tires had a leak and had to be replaced. Got 4 new tires. Exhaust was slanted and had to be fixed. Windows were scratched and had to be replaced along with the moldings that were causing it. This is just half of the problems i've experienced with this car. And you consider this minor??? Way too many. A 2002 with this many problems? I figured GM would have taken care of the enormous problems that the earlier years were plagued with. Was I ever wrong.

Look, the interior in this car is cheap as hell. And GM does nothing to improve it. Nissan actually redid the interior in the altima for '05 to improve the quality of it. That's a company that actually cares about their product. You can tell GM doesnt give a damn about most of their products...especially the GA. They release it and that's about it.

I would be a fool to buy the G6 after experiencing the numerous problems with the GA and how GM takes care of it. And I don't trust GM's car aftermarket. So like i've said before, i'm done with GM cars. Build it cheap, sell it for twice what it's worth, then the customer watches as the resale drops like a rock. If I find a '05 Altima SE, '05 Accord V6, or the new '05 Legacy GT LTD. with a nice deal and they can get me into it, i'm outta here. Maybe i'll save up and get a G35. Not likey, but one can dream. But I just can't take it any more. Too many freakin problems. GM doesn't take the time, money, or resources to resolve the problem so the later models won't be plagued with it. It's a slap in the face and it's a ripoff. I'm just glad I didn't buy this car new. But I still feel as though I was taken.

By the way, the Toyota Camry will be freshened a bit for '05.

P.S. I have a creak coming from my front end. So I have to take my car into the dealer to get that fixed and LIM leak fixed. I will be without it for 2 days. Fockin headache. :mad:

[fo44rd]

And it doesn't make sense. GM got me on the design of this car. But once I bought it and spent time with it, I found out that it's just a freakin rattle box with things always wrong with it. LIM leak. Battery fails. Turn signal relay kept clicking and had to be fixed. Front tires were making noise and had to be fixed. Front right and rear right tires had a leak and had to be replaced. Got 4 new tires. Exhaust was slanted and had to be fixed. Windows were scratched and had to be replaced along with the moldings that were causing it. This is just half of the problems i've experienced with this car. And you consider this minor??? Way too many. A 2002 with this many problems? I figured GM would have taken care of the enormous problems that the earlier years were plagued with. Was I ever wrong.

Look, the interior in this car is cheap as hell. And GM does nothing to improve it. Nissan actually redid the interior in the altima for '05 to improve the quality of it. That's a company that actually cares about their product. You can tell GM doesnt give a damn about most of their products...especially the GA. They release it and that's about it.

I would be a fool to buy the G6 after experiencing the numerous problems with the GA and how GM takes care of it. And I don't trust GM's car aftermarket. So like i've said before, i'm done with GM cars. Build it cheap, sell it for twice what it's worth, then the customer watches as the resale drops like a rock. If I find a '05 Altima SE, '05 Accord V6, or the new '05 Legacy GT LTD. with a nice deal and they can get me into it, i'm outta here. Maybe i'll save up and get a G35. Not likey, but one can dream. But I just can't take it any more. Too many freakin problems. GM doesn't take the time, money, or resources to resolve the problem so the later models won't be plagued with it. It's a slap in the face and it's a ripoff. I'm just glad I didn't buy this car new. But I still feel as though I was taken.

By the way, the Toyota Camry will be freshened a bit for '05.

P.S. I have a creak coming from my front end. So I have to take my car into the dealer to get that fixed and LIM leak fixed. I will be without it for 2 days. Fockin headache. :mad:


That about sums it up.................styling got me.....but honeymoon is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just another example of gm bean countering at its finest

[Vintalage]

i forgot about lexus and scion is a new company i thought it was just a new car DOESNT MATTER THEY ARE LAME AND DONT DESERVE MY ATTENTION!!!! ( i can also use caps and exclamation points) lol

Don't be ignorant. Your the one whose lame for thinking that Lexus and scion is a lame company. Lexus!!!??? Now I understand. From the sounds of your recent posts, it seems as though you despise quality and refinement. You'd rather take cheap and busted. :rolleyes: I rather be in a lex than be in my GA.

[99GApunk]

i never had any of those problems in my GA

[fo44rd]

do cowboys like unpainted dual post mirrors or something?... i'm missing the connection

SOMEONE was proud of their liberalism

I am proud of my conservative political leanings............I just couldn't pass up a chance to give my boy BUSH a plug.................

after all SOMEONE spoke of anyone but bush edicts.....................

[03xGAxSE]

ill keep this one short and sweet... yeah thats the problem bush is trying to be everyones hero, he seems to forget the fact that money doesnt grow on trees and we need to keep jobs in america (another reason to buy american) and forcing yourself on somebody (even if its for the side of "good") will make them dislike you... btw he got his man??? last i knew were still looking for osama... which was his first "man" thats ok im sure he will turn up sometime around the election just when he is looking down in the polls, gas prices will most likely drop... and the job market has taken a odd up swing just in time for the election probably coinsidence... yeah right...

and on the whole "i dont like lexus thing" you misunderstood me... the scion doesnt deserve my attention... lexus is a very respectable company... but i will never own one because gm has done me right and i would rather buy american

i also haven't had any problems with my GA sorry you have had so many vintalage

[03xGAxSE]

just another example of gm bean countering at its finest


does any one else find this funny coming from a conservative? i sure as hell do

SOMEONE was proud of their liberalism and I still am...

[Vintalage]

I'm sorry, but i'd be a fool to buy american because i'm a citizen here and need to help the "economy." Bull shyt. I'll look at GM trucks and suvs and maybe their luxury cars (caddy), but I refuse to buy anymore GM cheap cars. They just can't get it right and they love to decontent. In other words, they love to take things away, cut corners to save costs, and charge the customer the same price. My black 2002 with ribbed mirrors are unpainted. They are faded and look like ass. Another slap in the face.

Rarely do they add features. Such a shame.

[03xGAxSE]

Ronald Reagan was a cowboy.

Ronald Reagan was brave, positive, and gave us hope. He wore a white hat. To the consternation of his critics, he had the courage to call a spade a spade and call the former Soviet Union what it was -- the evil empire.

President Bush distinguishes between good and evil. He calls a spade a spade, and after 9-11 called evil "evil," without mincing any words. That's what cowboys do, you know.
Cowboys in white hats were always on the side of right, and that was their might.


first i must tell ya'(ll) that right and wrong, good and evil make no sense to me so you may as well drop that talk now.. there is no purely good acts and there is no purely evil act this is the thought of eastern religion and i happen to agree, yin yang is the visual representation of this...

communism it self wasn't evil it was the greed of the leaders that gave it a bad name as a matter of fact, it was an idea to end poverty, a GOOD thing but it wasn't sucessful... not that i support communism i think that capitolism is the way to go for a sucessful country, but YOU seem to be aganst the idea of profit and free trade... whining because gm doesnt paint their mirrors in order to make a better profit... its capitolism if you dont like it move to china! (or buy a car made there)

and its funny you mention the soviets because WE CREATED TERRORISM TO COMBAT THE SOVIETS told the muslim people that when a country invades your land do what ever nessary to combat them because not only is it your country it you religion (ghad) then we gave them CIA training, and money (how do ya think osama got his cash flow.... WE GAVE IT TO HIM) now when we send money to the israilies they see the american gun that shot them and trace it back to us hijack a plane and aim for the buildings

you wanna stop terrorism - STAY OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST, its like throwing rocks at a wasps nest and then wondering why you got stung

"its right in front of you its right in front, of me the writings on the wall but we're too blind to see. the truths in front of me the truths in front of you, their blood is on the wall and its revenge they seek, its comming back at you its coming back at me, we diden't hear it now there is nothing we can do" Rammallah (an awsome boston hardcore band)

well i can tell ya that regan and bush are the only 2 presidents to have a punk rock compilation put out aganst them... and i own them both... i dont care about your cowboy hat, give me a mohawk! HENRY ROLLINS for PREZ! :slayer

edit: regan and bush have another thing in common.... they're both failed actors turned president..lol

[AznGA]

Ah come on, there are reasons why GA is one of GM's best selling cars. My brother has a 03 Nissan Altima with 2.5L 4 cyl 175 HP engine that was about $24k. But I just couldn't feel sporty driving or walking towards that car. Maybe because it wasn't a V6, but the only difference V6 has is sportier suspention and dual exhaust tips. The interior has hard plastic all over. Also, the doors are a lot thinner than our cars.

[Vintalage]

Ah come on, there are reasons why GA is one of GM's best selling cars. My brother has a 03 Nissan Altima with 2.5L 4 cyl 175 HP engine that was about $24k. But I just couldn't feel sporty driving or walking towards that car. Maybe because it wasn't a V6, but the only difference V6 has is sportier suspention and dual exhaust tips. The interior has hard plastic all over. Also, the doors are a lot thinner than our cars.

Check out the '05s. They have improved and that's what i've been saying for the latter part of this thread. Nissan listened and changed what was looked upon as cheap and problematic and improved it.

[AznGA]

I am still waiting to see G6 in person.

[99GApunk]

instead of complaining about the car and everything after youve had it for a couple years, why not nit pick before you buy it? your mirrors didnt just become unpainted one day, they have been like that since you got the car or put them on, so why complain about it now when it obviously wasnt that big of a deal to begin with.

i realize this is an outlet for anger with many other problems you guys have had with your GAs but i think you could pick something better than unpainted mirrors to illustrate your point.

some people, myself included actually like them

[Vintalage]

instead of complaining about the car and everything after youve had it for a couple years, why not nit pick before you buy it? your mirrors didnt just become unpainted one day, they have been like that since you got the car or put them on, so why complain about it now when it obviously wasnt that big of a deal to begin with.

i realize this is an outlet for anger with many other problems you guys have had with your GAs but i think you could pick something better than unpainted mirrors to illustrate your point.

some people, myself included actually like them

I've already used many examples to illustrate my point.

When I bought the car, I didn't know the mirrors were left unpainted and it wasn't noticable. Now it is and it looks horrible.

[99GApunk]

fair enough, mine is white and i love the unpainted look, matches my ventshade window things, my headlight covers and my plain black grill mesh stuff

[02andahalfgt]

I thought political posts fell under the same rules as 'race stories' around here? :rolleyes:

I've owned two GA's and just like 03x, and GAPUNK, I've never had a problem with either of them beyond normal maintenance. But if people do have problems then find something you're happy with. Just because you experience problems doesn't make every car with that name a bad car. Well with the exception of the Pinto maybe. lol

[Vintalage]

I thought political posts fell under the same rules as 'race stories' around here? :rolleyes:

I've owned two GA's and just like 03x, and GAPUNK, I've never had a problem with either of them beyond normal maintenance. But if people do have problems then find something you're happy with. Just because you experience problems doesn't make every car with that name a bad car. Well with the exception of the Pinto maybe. lol

Funny thing is, most of the problems with the GA that I mentioned are common problems other owners have experienced. Delco battery dying after just 2 years. Posted it on here and I discover that others have had the same problem and it's crap. Tires...they were leaking and I posted it on here and discovered that there is a TSB on it. Things like that. It should not occur. A few on here might not agree with me but the GA is unreliable. I love the styling, but the thing is a crap box. I want something that's solid and will keep me happy. Selling it is not an option because the dealer will rape me. Negitive equity galore.

If you have experienced as many problems as I have every freakin month and you still have to pay a monthly note, then you'd understand why I feel the way I do about the N-bodys in general. Owning a '99 Alero that was problematic and selling it because of that to come over to another problematic ride. At the time of buying this car, I knew there were a few problems with the earlier models and read a few '02 owners having issues, but I had no idea it was this bad. Like I said, I figured GM took care of the issues the earlier models had. Well I soon learned that was not the case. I must say I might of made a serious mistake. A critical move that's costing me. :thumbsdow

Such a shame.

[fo44rd]

instead of complaining about the car and everything after youve had it for a couple years, why not nit pick before you buy it? your mirrors didnt just become unpainted one day, they have been like that since you got the car or put them on, so why complain about it now when it obviously wasnt that big of a deal to begin with.

i realize this is an outlet for anger with many other problems you guys have had with your GAs but i think you could pick something better than unpainted mirrors to illustrate your point.

some people, myself included actually like them


This forum is used to express all avenue of auto ownership. Possibly some of you have had well built examples. I know I am pickier than the average person, so many things do not pass grade for me. I was getting a mad deal on these cars in terms of trading them in every year and putting up 2,000 dollars and driving off in the next model year (I owned a 99,00,01,and own a 2002..all gt coupes). It is essentially paying 2 grand to reset your car to day one. Who wouldn't do it. I drove them for a year and maybe 12,000 (usually 8-10,000) miles tops and turned them over for the next model year. I never dealt with the problems of the car, because I never kept one long term. I knew buying my 2002 would be the last...................due to the bean counting. Now that I have 20,000 miles on my car I can see how they fall apart over time. I have aired my issues with this model and gm in general, along with ford. I DO NOT WANT TO EVER BUY A FORIEGN CAR, BUT WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY MAKE A SUPERIOR PRODUCT........I "VENT" IN HOPES OF FORD AND GM PULLING THEIR COLLECT HEADS OUT OF THIER COLLECTIVE A**ES.........ONE DAY THEY WILL REALIZE THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY SELLING QUALITY, TOP LEVEL CARS WITH MINIMAL CASH BACK, THAN MAKING CRAP AND HAVING TO GIVE IT AWAY IN FLEET SALES.


DO NOT BE FOOLING PEOPLE....the whole reason the companies are in business is to MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE......gm and ford both miss the mark of people will pay a little more for a superior product.........................
here is a shot at ford.......................when was the last time HONDA/TOYOTA/NISSAN had to give away a television or computer to sell a car/truck??????????????????????????????????????

[03xGAxSE]

when was the last time HONDA/TOYOTA/NISSAN had to give away a television or computer to sell a car/truck??????????????????????????????????????


haha a local ford dealership is stuggling because of construction (t-rex) on I-25 so their latest promo is, buy a ranger or explorer and get a FREE focus... i laughed so hard when i heard that.... they can't even give em away.... some of the other ones were pretty funny too... but in a way i feel bad because I-25 had been torn up for about 1.5 years and they have another 2 (i think) before its done so this dealer lost out big time on that whole deal... oh well

I know I am pickier than the average person, so many things do not pass grade for me.

nothing can get past a detailer... we notice EVERYTHING
i can tell ya lower model german car and even some of the jap cars will skimp as well..first thing to look at is the carpet... imported carpets are very thin not all but most.. and i hate the feel of all VW interiors even the wolfsburg felt cheap but the blow off valve sounded cool... subarus are the worst though i havent found one yet that i liked the wrx is fast and looks ok on the exterior but its was cheaper than a 2 dollar whore on the inside (smelled worse too)