HID Projector Retrofit?

[Rba007]

Anyone think itd be possible to take a project for an 02 a6 and install it into our headlight housings? I think the only obstacle would be clearance behind the headlight. Anyone?

[Joey K]

Looks fun, but at $340, I won't be doing it anytime soon. I've done just about all I want to do w/ my GA/ except for a charger hopefully next summer. Maybe I'll play w/ the projectors after that It does seem like a cool idea.

[iceman]

I'd try it but don't have the scratch or down time to do that.

[Rba007]

The non-bi xenon projectors are a lot shorter, and clearance shouldnt be a problem. I think ill get these (paycheck just got deposited, nothing else to spend it on this week, thank god). Then ill hunt down some new housings, and spend a couple months slowly putting these together as a nice little project.

[iceman]

It shouldnt be that hard.. you're going to have to get good w/ glass / resin probably to fix up the holes you are going to make back there.. then if I were you i'd paint the housings flat black when you are done on the inside :)

[Vintalage]

If the housing for the projectors extend further than the housings for the GA headlights, then you would have to cut a hole in the back of the headlight to make it fit. But like others have implied, it is possible. I've seen it done on a number of cars. Thier is this forum that i've been browsing that is dedicated to hids, retrofits, projectors, etc. Members show thier hid installs and projector retrofits and other light related stuff.

[XMBlackGT1]

I have the CATZ system in my car and clearance was a huge problem. They had to cut some stuff out behind the housing to make them fit, and it just barely fit. Granted, mine are the bi xenon, so there is high and low. Good luck!

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by XMBlackGT1
I have the CATZ system in my car and clearance was a huge problem. They had to cut some stuff out behind the housing to make them fit, and it just barely fit. Granted, mine are the bi xenon, so there is high and low. Good luck!

So the hid bulb moves when you switch to high beam?

[XMBlackGT1]

Originally posted by Vintalage
So the hid bulb moves when you switch to high beam?


Thats correct- there is a huge solenoid behind the bulb that physically pushes the bulb forward in the housing. Sweet setup in my opinon.

[GrafxWerks]

Hey Dave,

Maybe you should look at the 350Z projectors... I think they're quite small and might be easier to retrofit.


- Ryan

[Sivado10]

the audi tt ones are supposed to be the smallest

[Rba007]

How far back from the housing did your catz go? There is a tt system up on ebay right now, but it loooks a LOT more complicated....

[XMBlackGT1]

My CATZ stick out from the headlamp housing about 4 inches or so, then the wires on the end- it took them a while to cut out some stuff, and they had to cut the bottoms off of the speed clips that hold the housings in, but I havent had any problems with the housings not staying in. After they cut out the plastic behind the housing, they got them to fit- all in all, they did a great job and I am very happy with the finished product.

[Rba007]

Good deal. These housings are 6 inches total, about 4 of those are going to be in the oem housing. Since our cars are ghey negative grounds, i figure the wiring will go like this:

Ill hook both the positive for the ballast, and the pos for the high beam actuator to one wire, that will go in the middle pin on our oem connector. Then, ill just put the high beam actuator ground in its respective place, and the same with the low beam. Sounds easy enough egh?

[Panacea]

Some good reading for those thinking of buying HID Conversion Kits


"
Do not be FOOLED, all other eBay auctions selling 5000K, 6000K, 7000K, 8000K, and so on, these are all cheap ways of matching the color of what all BMW, AUDI, LEXUS, and some other car companies put out. All cars that come from the factory with HIDs come with 4100K. But here is what makes the difference, the projector, the projector reflects the lights in a way that puts out a different color. Like for example the BMW X5 has a purplish look to it, that is the projector lens which makes it look that color. But when you look at where the light shines, it shines white, not like these kits on eBay which shine purple on the floor. 8000K puts out the same light on the floor as a regular pair of halogen lights you have on your car already, you just get that high purple color. After some time the color changes. Also anything past 6000K will not give you those sharp cut off lines that HIDs give. If you look any where, the major companies who make HIDs like Philips, do not make bulbs past 6000K. In this auction you are purchasing a set of OEM Brand New Philips D2S Bulbs, set of Hella Ballast, the #1 longest lasting Ballast out there, and a set of OEM HELLA Projectors. I have included an article after the pictures to prove to you the bad sides of having these after market kits, please read"




"There are many companies and private merchants out there that will advertise 7000K, 8000K, and even 12000K HID kits. Most of these vendors lurk around on e-bay, online car forums, websites, and ricer accessory shops. 100% of the people that buy these kits do so because they are uninformed, uneducated, or misguided in the field of lighting, and will buy these junk kits thinking two things: that these bulbs are brighter and/or that they will perform better. These are both untrue. Perhaps this misconception and frenzy for purple lights originates from BMW and Audi's infamous projector HIDs.

So here's the *real* low down... Philips is the number one manufacturer of HID bulbs. The Philips OEM D2S bulb is rated at 4100K at 12.8 volts and produces 3200 lumens of light. The Philips Ultinon D2S is 5800K at 12.8 volts and produces 2400 lumens of light. As you can see, with all other factors remaining constant, the brightness of an HID bulb declines the higher up the color index you go. Vision, a Korean bulb manufacturer, makes an 8000K bulb, which they used to advertise on Acura-Forums as 2000 lumens bright. This is barely a marked improvement over halogens, and will produce more glare and eye fatigue than it is beneficial. 4100K has been proven through tireless independant research by the Germans and Japanese to be the most functional, truest white and thus the brightest possible color temperature (ceteris paribus).

Every car manufacturer in the world (including BMW and Audi) uses none other than a standard 4100K gas-discharge bulb. The reason being is that 4100K is daylight white in color and produces the same color visible light as direct sunlight. This is least fatiguing functional color on the eyes and produces the most comfortable contrast on the road.

So the big question now is: Why do BMW and Audi lights appear blue when they use a white bulb?

Well, this coloration is the result of the light projectors; the lenses: it's transparency, it's curvature, the tiny grooves etched into it; the projector assembly, the shield, and the reflector bowl. All these components work together to produce a signature of light unique to that particular optic's design. On the Audi and BMW projectors, the lens curvature at the edge bends the white light producing a "prism effect". White light is broken down to it's fundemental colors. Since blue lights is high energy it is absorbed last and thus travels farther. So with this prism effect, you'll notice that BMW HIDs are only purple and blue from the sides, the top, and the bottom, but are always daylight white on the road and in the beam pattern. This phenomenon can be demonstrated when you watch an oncoming BMW hit a pothole or speedbump in the road and the car's nose pitches up and down. The headlights will flicker and "throw colors off", but returns to a solid-white beam pattern directly on the road.

Trying to emulate this color-flickering effect with a solid-state blue or purple bulb is only detrimental to lighting performance, but more importantly endangers motorists around you........."

[Rba007]

My new oem audi a6 bi-xenons are 4100k...

[Vintalage]

I realized this when I installed my 7000k hid bulbs. It is quite purplish/blue with no whiteness to it. So i'm going to get some different bulbs.

[Rba007]

Stuff Ive gotten so far:

The Projector

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=241999

[Rba007]

The Ballast

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242001

[Rba007]

The Ballast cover (very imporant!:D )http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242003

[Panacea]

Dave, have you compared the size of the projectors to the size of the stock hole? How much bigger is it?

[Rba007]

Innards of projector, showing hi-beam actuatorhttp://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242006

[Rba007]

Its a lot bigger. What im planning on doing is enlarging the hole a bit (i have two really chip ebay light housings on the way), the using some lexan to make a mount in the housing, to hold most of the projector assembly so that there is only about 2 inches coming out the rear of the housing. Should work. Just trying to figure out the wiring now.

Realized I cant just plug the high beam actuator power and the ballast power together into the middle plug of our headlight socket, and then put the grounds in the respective ground slots in the socket. Cause then, when i flip on the highs, my hid's would go out! That would suck. So, im thinking two options:

1. Wire the power's together, ground the high beam to the plug in the oem socket, ground the low beam to the chassis.
2. Do that, only use a relay of some sort to power the ballast, completely seperate of the oem plug.

Any thoughts?

[Panacea]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is lexan? I've heard it used before, but not sure of what it is.

When you say cheap headlight housings, how cheap is cheap?

As far as the wiring, you lost me. I'm not sure how the headlight wiring is set up so I can't really help you there. You're definately a pioneer and I hope I win $1000+ so I can buy a set of these myself.

Have you plugged them in to see if they work yet?

[Rba007]

Not yet, cause i had to buy some 9006 sockets to plug the ballasts in with, and im not sure just which wire coming out of em is the power and which is the ground. Dont want to reverse them very bad... Heres a pic of the 9006 socket plugged in if anyone can help me out.




BTW, lexan is like plexiglass, only more hardcore.http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242018

[Panacea]

Dave, have you thought about buying a 9006 plug and cutting off the stock 9007 and wiring up the 9006? Maybe that would be easier/more economical?

[Rba007]

I dunno. Wiring the power for the hi beam, the low beam, and the groun for the high into the socket sounds good, then wiring the ground for the ballast to the chassis sounds the easiest.

BTW, you dont have to win 1000! I got the entire setup for 340, which is less than youd pay for some crap taiwan brand.

[Panacea]

Yeah I know it's better than the POS "kits" but I don't have the money, and he doesn't have anymore auctions.

Also, I would buy a whole new set of headlight housings because I know I'd probably screw something up :rolleyes:

[Rba007]

I got one headlight housing (had a little tear in the rubber gasket thingy, i dont care about that) for 20 bucks on ebay last week. Now im keeping my eyes out for a driver's side housing. I know ill screw something up too, so this way i can do the project, and only have to install em and plug in the wires in the end.

[Rba007]

Todays progress: Headlight housing hacked up, projector mounts made and fitted to housing, hid's tested (wiring extended also to allow a lot of play when installing).

Pics: One of the projectors testing...

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242551

[Rba007]

Housing hacked up, its a hell of a hole!!!

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242554

[Rba007]

My not very attractive, but very effective mounting system:\
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242558


Also, SUVLIGHTS believes that they have a wiring system that will do the trick for me. Ive got my fingers crossed and will report on it when it arrives.

Also, note that I plan on painting the inside of the headlight housing a flat silver, to go with my "scheme" and to cut down on light refraction from anything that escapes the projector. In other words, i couldnt care less about that shiny "chromy" finish now.

[Rba007]

Todays updates:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242864

[Rba007]

Rear View (I know, it sticks out a loonnggg way, but judging by the plastic behind the lights, i should be able to fit em by using my freind the dremel again)

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242866

[Rba007]

Any ideas on sealing this all up??
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242867

[2000GA]

maybe some fiberglass to seal it all up?

[Joey K]

I'd rough up the surface & hit it w/ 2 part epoxy (Fusor/ Chemweld, etc.)

[Rba007]

Can you mold epoxy like that? Ive never really used it, however I do know that it is readily available. Thanks for the ideas guys!

[iceman]

any epoxy resin should do the trick.. Dave if I were you I'd look into making that part of the housing black.. it would look trick. Or if you want to keep the metal look.. I'd say try and make some sort of cover that will hide all that mess from the front, either with some sheet metal, some ABS painted with chrome paint, etc.... somethin along those lines.

Looks like it'll come along nice - I'll work on that wiring stuff later tonight and get back to you, I've been down the shore all weekend.

[2000GA]

Use fiberglass mat and epoxy and you'll be set. Make sure you mix it right otherwise it won't dry. Cut the mat into little strips and it will be easier to work with instead of a big piece. Then after your done you can sand and piant it to look cool.

[Joey K]

Fiberglass, bonded to plastic will not last w/ the heat that it will be taking on. You can also use fiberglass mat w/ the epoxy 4 added strength. epoxy will hold up to the heat & can be sanded just as well & painted.

[Rba007]

Well here is a dillema related to painting: I wont be able to fill in that gap unless i have the projector installed, which will make it tuff to paint. Although the black would look trick. Is there any sort of a black epoxy? So i could have the housing painted, and then the epoxy would come atleast close. Any opinions on whether i should do a flat silver to match me "scheme", or a flat black all through?

[iceman]

I think there are dyes you can put in the resin - check www.shopmaninc.com start there

[Rba007]

Decided to light em up in the housings for ****s and giggles, LOTS of glare, ill have to do something about that...

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=242998

[Rba007]

Anotherhttp://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=243000

[iceman]

yup you will definitely need to cover that area up :)

maybe you want to make some sort of a sleeve w/ some ABS ?? I dunno you have a few options.

[Joey K]

Originally posted by Rba007
Well here is a dillema related to painting: I wont be able to fill in that gap unless i have the projector installed, which will make it tuff to paint. Although the black would look trick. Is there any sort of a black epoxy? So i could have the housing painted, and then the epoxy would come atleast close. Any opinions on whether i should do a flat silver to match me "scheme", or a flat black all through?

The Kent Chemweld from SEM is black. Not a light black either but as black as black can get. it looks sweet so far. Love what your doing. Wish I had the time & cash to play w/ those too.

[Rba007]

Thanks guys. I shot them an email seth with my requirements, and a picture of what it will be used for. Im sure they can hook me up. I think for that sleeve ill end up using some aluminum. Should be easy to form, and ill just prolly have my girlfriends dad (welding master) "zap" it together quick. Likely to be done while Im busy painting that housing.

Before I can get too much farther, I need that wire harness from suvlights, but im sure it will be here soon.

Again, Im a bit weary to even install these before/during winter. Just my luck when i do, some moron will hit me and destroy them. Its been fun so far. Just from aiming that housing around in my garage, the beam pattern looks nice. Sharp cutoff. A lot better than before! Keep the ideas and suggestions coming guys, i really appreciate the help.
-Dave

[CruzinGT33]

I can't offer any advice, but I would like to say that your doing a great job, and Keep up the great work... I'm excited to see this progress!!

[Rba007]

Thanks man! Im going to work on sheilds for those projectors this weekend, and Im currently winning an auction for a new headlight housing, so i can do the drivers side. Wiring should be here shortly!

[Red99GAGT]

What type of paint do you plan on using to paint the housings? I am bidding on a cheap headlight housing on Ebay so I can play with some paint. I want to paint them black, but here is my dilema. I'm not sure if I should use a glossy black, or flat. Also, will I loose light because it won't reflect as much now? Thanks in advance. Great job, I love what your doing...its giving me some ideas. :thumbs:

[2003GAGT]

Originally posted by Red99GAGT
What type of paint do you plan on using to paint the housings? I am bidding on a cheap headlight housing on Ebay so I can play with some paint. I want to paint them black, but here is my dilema. I'm not sure if I should use a glossy black, or flat. Also, will I loose light because it won't reflect as much now? Thanks in advance. Great job, I love what your doing...its giving me some ideas. :thumbs:
Are you putting projectors in the housings too?

If you are leaving the stock setup bulbs in there then I don't think you can paint the inside of the housings....what will the light reflect off of?

:confused:

[Red99GAGT]

Originally posted by 2003GAGT
Are you putting projectors in the housings too?

If you are leaving the stock setup bulbs in there then I don't think you can paint the inside of the housings....what will the light reflect off of?

:confused:

I have "Ultra White" bulbs or whatever in there now, thats why I'm "playing" with the paint. If it works it works, it not...oh well. I'm looking for HID headlight projector kits on ebay. I found this here, but it doesn't have the ballast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33710&item=2433889845

[2003GAGT]

Originally posted by Red99GAGT
I have "Ultra White" bulbs or whatever in there now, thats why I'm "playing" with the paint. If it works it works, it not...oh well. I'm looking for HID headlight projector kits on ebay. I found this here, but it doesn't have the ballast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33710&item=2433889845
That's what I'm saying....if you paint the housings and don't put projectors in there, it won't work.

I'm trying to find a set of projectors from a new BMW 745...with the ultraviolet lens....anyone know where I can find that without paying several thousand at the dealer? lol

[2003GAGT]

Here check this one out

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2433630713&category=36476

[SikMindz]

Looks awesome Dave!!!

[Rba007]

Thanks Sik!

2003, thats the kit ive got, only mine is the bi-xenon (just two more wires, otherwise looks the same). If youre looking for a projector that will give that purple look, check out the bmw x5 projectors which seem to be readily available online. Also, Im going to be using a flat color if/when I paint the housings. Im trying to catch any stray light. Without a projector painting wouldnt be a good idea. Im going to build some "sheilds" to fit around the projector to block light from escaping this weekend. If that works, I may not need to do any painting. We shall see.

[Vintalage]

I think i'm going to buy a stock projector kit. But i'm just waiting to see if Gm will release the projector headlights for the grand am. I have alot of "hotspots" with the aftermarket hid.

Looks good Dave.

[hotgt]

hey have you tried plastic tubing?? it might fit around the projector sides so it blocks the light goin to the sides...there was a guy on a WRX forum that put plastic tubing around his from blinker's in his headlights, he painted them, and now they look awesome...

i think they sell some at like Home Depot or somethin, anywho it's just a suggestion, but by the way that looks awesome!

[Rba007]

Thanks Guys! Im going to use some aluminum sheet metal ive got laying around to make a sheild outta.

BTW, projectors arent necesarily made for HID's. So, if gm makes a set of projectors, the likely wont be "hid projectors". HID puts out a different type of light, and therefore makes a different light pattern than halogen bulbs.

[Panacea]

Dave, where did the link to the auction go? WHat was the sellers name???

[Rba007]

Seller was "ciggey" heres a link to his other auctions: Ciggey (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=ciggey&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50)

[iceman]

Hey Dave - just double checking...

you have Power & Ground for the ballast (lights the bulb) and power + ground for the thing that moves the bulb??? That's all??

Circuit sounds simple when diode isolating but that's a high current circuit so finding a diode to support that might be tricky.. but I think I can do it with a relay.

confirm the wires you have to work with, I have an idea.

[Rba007]

Thats all there is seth. SUVLIGHTS is sending me their "heavy duty" dual harness, for trucks with two batteries. I spoke with someone there on the phone a while back and for a few other cars that have the switched ground system (some toyotas for example) this system has worked. Since nothing I ever do works right the first time, Im skeptical. However I do have my fingers crossed. So if youve got an idea seth, im all ears! hopefully its something I can build (i suck at soldering). Thanks again!!!

[iceman]

I have an idea of how to do this with one or two relays per ballast... I gotta think about it but I want to find a diode you can use, it would make this much easier.

[Rba007]

I dont even know what a Diode is, but I appreciate it seth. Once I get the suvlights harness Ill really know whats going on and what needs to be done. Id like to be able to use the harness, so it can help handle the power surge at startup.

[iceman]

The stock harness is fine for the HIDs.. I dunno what harness you are getting but I guess it can't hurt ?? sounds like it might just make things more complicated.


Think of a diode like a one-way street for electricity. The circuit I am thinking will tie the high-beam solenoid ground and ballast ground together, but if you don't use a blocking diode on the high beam solenoid ground, then whenever the lights are on, they would be in high-beam format.


read http://www.the12volt.com/diodes/diodes.asp

[Rba007]

Just be sure to put whatever you come up with in stupid people language so I can comprehend. Thanks again!

[Panacea]

Seth, Dave, I was thinking last night as to how to wire this thing, and I've drawn a diagram of what I think may work.

The only thing is though, when we switch our high beams on does it cut the power to the low beams?


Diagram's attached

[Rba007]

Yup, thats the dillema. When high beams get switched on, the low beam ground goes away.

[Panacea]

So, in my Diagram B, I have the low beams connected to the ballast, and also the high beams. So, when we switch on our high beams, it'll still power the ballast and also the projector.

Now, will that split second (when we switch to our high beams) cause the light to go out temporarily, or will the ballast have enough juice to where it won't make a difference?

Also, does the high beam have a higher wattage, and if so, will that hurt the ballast?

[Rba007]

I beleive our headlights are "pull", as in that is capable of putting out the watts to power 65 watts or more for high beams, but only pulls that when necessary. Im not sure, but flashing on and off like that isnt good for the ballasts. Im anxious to hear seth's solution, and get my wire harness from suvlights. Ive got one cover made, although it looks pretty ghetto at the moment. Camera is at my girlfriends ;) , but Ill get pics of it soon.

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by Panacea
So, in my Diagram B, I have the low beams connected to the ballast, and also the high beams. So, when we switch on our high beams, it'll still power the ballast and also the projector.

Now, will that split second (when we switch to our high beams) cause the light to go out temporarily, or will the ballast have enough juice to where it won't make a difference?

Also, does the high beam have a higher wattage, and if so, will that hurt the ballast?

If i'm correct on this, high beams are not higher wattage. They are the same watts as low beams, only aimed higher. Since the grand am uses 9007 bulbs which have dual filaments, the high beam filament is above the low beam which allows the light to shine higher. And as I think about it as I type, I must be correct. Look at the Bi-xenon setup. It only moves the bulb up for high beam and down for low.

[Panacea]

Vintelage - the way Bi-Xenon's work is that the projector has a little plate drops which allows for more light to shine.

As far as how ours works... don't ask me :)

[Panacea]

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlamp-harness.html


Some good reading Dave, unfortunately this is going to be a major PITA. I have a feeling we'll have the stupid SVS light due to it thinking there's a bulb out... I'm almost thinking of just wiring up a switch instead of using the stock headlight switch...

[Rba007]

Ive read through that. I think all will turn out and work fine eventually. Itll just take some tinkering. Thats why im glad I dont plan on installing these puppies till spring. Ive got plenty of time and no pressure to get stuff working fast.

[Joey K]

Good plan. When I made my warbird hood I did the same thing. Bought another hood to work on so I could leave my stock one on & take my time n' do it right. Much the same as the way your going about the headlights. This is a great thread, I think we'll all learn from this & hopefully you'll have it all figured out so others will be able to pull it off w/out costly mistakes.

[Rba007]

Ill get it eventually, and thats the entire point of this thread. I want others to be able to do the same, without the trouble that im sure to have (havent really had it yet luckily). I dont plan to have this done anytime soon, thats for sure. Its going to be a warm weather install. Itll be complete by xmas, but it wont get installed till spring...

[Rba007]

Todays Update: Sheilds In place. Used some sheet aluminum I had laying around. I just used a peice of paper to make the initial version, then used that paper to cut the aluminum. Used some clear epoxy to secure it.
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=247527

[Rba007]

Another
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=247528

[Rba007]

The ass view. I made slits in the aluminum to allow me to bend it down around the projector, as you can see in the pic.
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=247529

[Joey K]

That's starin to look pretty damn nice there bud!

[Rba007]

Thanks man! I plan on lightin em up like that tomorrow, its raining out today and I melt in the rain.

[Joey K]

Uhhhh,... Maybe those hunny's in your avitar might melt in the rain but I doubt you would:thumbs: People from Michigan don't melt, they just get soggy, if you know what I mean, maybe even float off?!!:huh:

[naich]

any updates of the lit up lights with the shields?

[Ak Racing]

I've been planning to do almost the exact same hid projector conversion only instead with HELLA Audi D2S Projectors, the whole fabrication part is simple to me, i understand most of what needs to be done, i just dont have much room behind the light housing and thats my problem. Any idea's. What are the dimensions of your projectors?

[Rba007]

These are the Hella Audi Projectors. Any hella a6 projectors you get will be about 6" deep. The projectors from an audi tt, or honda s2000, or euro volkswagens are much smaller though.

I havent had anyone around to hold my wires to the ground while I take pics lately. Ill give it a shot though!

Ive got both projectors mounted in housings now though, so thats some progress.

ive got an intake manifold swap to do on my car this week, three papers for school, and a race day this weekend, so ill be busy but ill try and snap some pics for ya!

[Ak Racing]

Well i have the basic Hella 9006 7000K HID bulbs from Mister Jung (http://www.misterjung.com) And i was looking at the BMW X5 Projectors, do you think those would fit good?

[Panacea]

Originally posted by Ak Racing
Well i have the basic Hella 9006 7000K HID bulbs from Mister Jung (http://www.misterjung.com) And i was looking at the BMW X5 Projectors, do you think those would fit good?

You'll have to fabricate something to hold the 9007 bulb in. The projector is going to have a spot for a D2S, but not a 9007. Might as well buy the D2S bulbs while you're at it.

[Rba007]

Ditto what he said. All that color your kit makes wont work well with projectors either. OEM's use between 4100k, and 4300k. The color they produce comes from the lenses in their projectors.

[iceman]

Originally posted by Panacea
You'll have to fabricate something to hold the 9007 bulb in. The projector is going to have a spot for a D2S, but not a 9007. Might as well buy the D2S bulbs while you're at it.

He has an alero - so 9006

[Panacea]

Originally posted by iceman
He has an alero - so 9006

My bad.... But it still won't work...

[Ak Racing]

Yeah thats what i thought, so i'll try to sell my kit, dam what a lot of busy work. Anyways. So if i get a kit, i should probably get one with the smallest projectors and bulbs. That would be the least amount of work behind the housing then. Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between D2S and 9006.

[Vintalage]

From my understanding, it has a different type of connector. Just like 9006 is different from 9007.

[iceman]

Dave you gotta email me and remind me about that wiring diag you need for this stuff... I'm ****ed at my boss this week so I'll do it during the day

[Ak Racing]

Originally posted by Vintalage
From my understanding, it has a different type of connector. Just like 9006 is different from 9007.

I have friends though that can drill a certain part of the bulbs to change them to fit. I don't quite understand how but i was just wondering if in fact you could do the same for these. I posted my set of bulbs in the classifieds if anyones interested though.

[Rba007]

I highly recommend joining HIDforum.com, and searching for info there. Its all they do. Also, D2s bulbs are what youre going to want for a projector retrofit. They are designed for the projectors, and any other type of bulb will displace the beam patter somewhat.

Seth, No worries man. If the wiring doesnt turn out, what ill do is just wire up the ballasts like we have done in the past, and then just put the high's on a completely seperate switch that id run into the cabin.

[XMBlackGT1]

Can we say CUSTOM!!!!! Awesome job on what you have done so far- I cant wait to see pix of them installed and lit.

[Rba007]

Thanks man! Its been great fun. Ill get pics of em lit up soon.

[Ak Racing]

Yeah i plan on getting D2S bulbs. And the retrofit will begin soon for the alero. :)

[Rba007]

Also, Might I suggest Hidtech.com for your retro fit needs...

[Ak Racing]

WOW! HIDtech is awesome, that's all this company does is custom retrofit for HIDs. I'm still finding out information on how much it would cost and what all needs to be done. But i think i should have a good quality setup in a couple months.

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by Ak Racing
WOW! HIDtech is awesome, that's all this company does is custom retrofit for HIDs. I'm still finding out information on how much it would cost and what all needs to be done. But i think i should have a good quality setup in a couple months.

So HIDtech does the retrofit for you? If so, i'm gonna look into it and sell my misterjung 7000k kit. One of the ballast isn't working.

[XMBlackGT1]

HIDTech looks like a sweet site, but from what I was looking at, for the kit and retrofit, you are lookin at around 1200 bucks. I got my bi-xenon Catz system for a little over 500.

[Rba007]

They can do it for ya, but why? They seem to be pretty good source for new projectors and ballasts/bulbs. Thats what id buy from them if i had to. You can get everything for less than 400, and itll wipe the floor (hopefully if done right) with any other kit for our cars.

[Ak Racing]

All i'd buy from them would be the fitting to get projectors up in there, or maybe just have them fabricate the projectors in there. Either way, i'd buy the bulbs and ballasts myself. I aint paying 1200 bucks for a kit, i don't want bi-xenon, so i'd go back to ebay for my HELLA HID shopping needs.

[Vintalage]

Interesting. I think that's the way i'm going to go. Have hidtech retrofit a projector into my housing. They can even black out the headlights.

[Vintalage]

So if I were to do this, I have the option of either purchasing an oem hid from them or purchasing the oem hid from another place, then sending it to them and they fabricate it into my housing? If I were to purchase an OEM setup from hidtech, what OEM setup would I get?

[Ak Racing]

I don't know if they'd retrofit an OEM HID kit that you bought, I think they like to use their own materials. I've talked with Sean over at HIDtech and he says its $300 dollars for them to fabricate the projectors in there, and that's basically all i want. I need to talk with him more on what HID kits can fit into his projectors, i like their brands, they have only the best, buts its very expensive. You have the choice of Hella, Bosch or Valeo. And you can get D2 or Bi-Xenon. I'd get the single because Bi would look funny with both lights in one spot, our headlamps are so long, it'd just be wasted space. But on your grand ams it'd probably look pretty good. Ohh and i'm only getting low beam projectors.

[Vintalage]

So how would I get a D2 kit to work in my car?

[Rba007]

Ummm, you use d2s bulbs in either single beam, or dual setup. And, the duals look just like the single beams. Just one projectore per housing. My projector just has a simple little shield that moves out of the way when the high beams are turned on allowing more light to escape. Getting them to work is simple: there is just a power and a ground from the ballast. Power it, and theyll light.

[Vintalage]

So your saying that the D2s bulb is the size of the bulb??? Or is it the connector? In other words, would a D2s kit work with a 9007 headlight :confused:

[Ak Racing]

Nope thats what i just found out from him. All there kits are D2S, meaning you cannot use stock bulbs or Mister Jung HID Kits <-- which sucks for me, my kits for sale but no ones bought it yet. Anyways.... You have to get the Full D2S kit for them to work right with this projector. You don't have to buy it through them but you do have to buy it. I know the aleros have DRL's, and he sells an override kit for the HIDs for $65. I don't know if you guys have them or not, but all aleros do. So far i believe the cost plus the override kit will put me at around $370, but we'll see as soon as i get more information. Thats not including the HID kit so if your really thinking about doing this, be ready to fork out around $700.

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by Ak Racing
Nope thats what i just found out from him. All there kits are D2S, meaning you cannot use stock bulbs or Mister Jung HID Kits <-- which sucks for me, my kits for sale but no ones bought it yet. Anyways.... You have to get the Full D2S kit for them to work right with this projector. You don't have to buy it through them but you do have to buy it. I know the aleros have DRL's, and he sells an override kit for the HIDs for $65. I don't know if you guys have them or not, but all aleros do. So far i believe the cost plus the override kit will put me at around $370, but we'll see as soon as i get more information. Thats not including the HID kit so if your really thinking about doing this, be ready to fork out around $700.

:eek:

Yes, we have DRLs.

[Rba007]

Ive got all my material, for 400. So, do it yourself folks. Its fun, and its cheaper!

[iceman]

Dave I might venture into this project too, if I end up keeping the car after the winter. I gotta work on that diag for you I keep forgetting :(

[Rba007]

Just as long as you let me finish first! I want to be the "godfather". :D

[Ak Racing]

Its cheaper, but the quality is much better having them make um. But the HID kit itself i'd buy off ebay for much less then they want.

[Vintalage]

So basically all I would have to do is send them the headlight assembly?

[Rba007]

Dont say my quality isnt as good till you see it. Ill enjoy my extra 300 dollars.

[Ak Racing]

LOL, sorry Rba, i didn't mean to affend you, but yes you can bring your car to them, they are stationed in New York somewhere, or send them the headlight assembly. I'm figuring out how much it is for their kits, i don't think its as expensive as i thought, but i don't know if the projectors are included with the $300, in the email he said $300 projector installation charge, so i'm still trying to figure it all out. I should have all the information by tomorrow.

[Ak Racing]

Ok, i am starting to see how much all of this will cost and its adding up way more then i thought, might have to think about just doing it myself again.

Rba- How did you aim the bulbs, that seems to be the hardest part, placing them into the housing and still having them in the correct position.

[Vintalage]

Let me try and understand this correctly. HIDtech will retrofit an Euro spec projector into my headlamps for $300. And that's not including the HID kit. Is there anything else needed? Am I forgetting something?

[2003GAGT]

I'm going to have these guy's do my retrofit for me.

Vintalage, it's parts plus the $300 labor and whatever shipping ends up being.

[Ak Racing]

^^^ Yep, pretty spendy though.

[Ak Racing]

I'm pulling out of the whole retrofit project for now though, just to much money and time i don't have at the moment.

[Vintalage]

Here's a good question. How come the Euro Spec Valeo HID Projector Set cost $199.99 and the Euro Spec Hella Bi-Xenon Projector Set costs $159.99?

Man, their prices are outrageous.

[Vintalage]

$459.99 total (projectors added to the labor charge price) to get the projectors fabricated into my headlight assemblies. Plus I would have to get a D2 HID kit. Ouch. If I find one on ebay for cheap, it may come up to $500, maybe $600. I'll have to look into it.

I'd do this project myself but I don't know how and I don't have the necessary tools to take on such a project. I'd probably mess up in the end anyway.

[Rba007]

Tools Ive used:

Dremel.
Tooth Pics.
A 7mm Wrench.

Skills I have: Zero.

Its easy, and its fun knowing that its not a "kit", its something you have to make yourself. Thats what makes it a good project.

[shogun99]

wow...great pics and even greater initiative bro. GREAT stuff....the fact you dont know anything and are taking on such a project (and doing such a good job) makes me second guess my stills. Maybe i will start a few projects ive been thinking about.

great work.

[Rba007]

Thanks man. I didnt even know how to put windsheild washer fluid in before I bought this car. Now ive changed all the suspension, exhaust,audio, intake/intake manifold, everything. Best way to learn is by doing!

[Vintalage]

Yes, you can say that again. I was going to have my audio installed professionally but I really wanted to do it myself. I wanted to know how to do it. Well, I ran into a bit of issues and mistakes, but my basslink is now working. The thread I started helped me alot. Now I know how to install car audio. :D

[ZakkWylde470]

Don't know if this helps anyone out, but I found these while browsing TireRack http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/hella/micro_de_xenon.jsp

[Ak Racing]

^^^ Yeah i'm not to sure about that kit.

[Rba007]

Just a bit of an update here, since this thread seems to be getting pretty off topic.


Here are pics of the projector installed in the housing, with the shield in place.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=263360

[Rba007]

Next, with camera settings screwed with to show that there is no longer the glare from light going all the heck over the place:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=263363

[Rba007]

Here is one of the light output, with the housing kindof sitting in place... Shows just how sweet these hummers are. One projector puts out a LOT more light than both my halogens.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=263364

[Rba007]

Here is all that ill have to do to make it fit. Not nearly as much as I thought i would...

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=263365

[SikMindz]

Mrmm...sexy. Make a set for me.

[Ak Racing]

Looks good but why did you point the projector so far down. Maybe its just the photo but it looks like the light doesn't go that far.

[Rba007]

I live on a sandune. The ground is going down. Note how the ground seems to dissapear just in front of my light. Thats cause it does. Also, note how i said that I just kinof sat the light on the bumper. its not aimed at all.

[iceman]

Looks sweet, like I said I'm prob gonna have to do this project... been on the back burner for a while and you are inspiring me :)

[Rba007]

I get that all the time seth...

:D

You know id be more than happy to help, its been fun so far, and not going to be as much of a pain as i thought. Ill re-inforce what I cut out with some aluminum a bit to keep it from coming apart on me. Glad to see I wont have to cut out much though. And all of my aimers will be useable. I was worried about that evil third aimer... But itll be fine.

[5-lO]

So you actually got this done? Thats awesome! :) Maybe HIDs wil have to be on my spring mod list, if you want to make them ofcourse lol

[Rba007]

Not completely done just yet:
Still have to
-Trim out, and install housing
-Aim em
-Paint the housings to cut down on glare more
-Seal Em
INstall em

[iceman]

OK, I think this may work. Let me know what you think. 1 relay per side. Everyone please double check (it's late :) ) I think this will be ok as it isolates the high beam lead from the low beam in both cases...


Circuit Description:

Ballast and High beam solenoid get constant power from pin B of headlamp harness.

Low Beams ON:

Relay coil is NOT energized, so pins 87A and 30 are connected, allowing a ground path to the ballast, and the lights come on.


High Beams ON:

Relay coil is energized by pin C from headlamp harness. Pins 30 and 87 connect, still providing a ground path fo ballast, so the lights remain on. Pin C also provides ground path to high beam solenoid and powers it.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=267156

[fschambe]

You are going to get a flicker when you swich, the relay takes a few MS to switch from 87to 87a when applying witching juice. I would use a second relay. Connect BOTH headlight and hibeam to seperate diodes (the ---<|--- things) that will make it so you can have on all the time signal even when switching between hi and low. then before the diode on the hi beam side connect the hi-lo solenoid. let me know if this makes sense or "me speak chinese"

[iceman]

You gotta draw, not sure what you are talking about..

[Rba007]

I wish I wasnt a wiring Peon. Thanks for the work seth, I appreciate it!

[Panacea]

Seth, I think what he is saying is that you're going to have a loss of power for a split second, which is enough to cause a flicker when you switch to your high's. From what the people on HIDforum told me, is that that's not good for the ballast.

Basically, you have to find a way to keep power to the ballast, and just be able to flip the solenoid.

From doing some reading, I have a good idea as to how to wire this thing up correctly, but there's no way I can draw a diagram, and explaining it in non technical terms will somehow be confusing for you. I'll see if I can't find some of the literature that I ran across explaining the damages that can occur on the lighting system.

[Panacea]

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlamp-harness.html

There's the literature


"How do I make my own low beam HID harness in a car with dual headlights?

Dual headlights means that original headlamps uses H4, 9004 or 9007. You might think that below diagram looks too complex, and wonder why factory headlight connector is NOT utilized to trigger relay curcuit. If relay was triggered directly from headlamp connector, ballasts would turn off when turning high beams on, which is an unlivable situation when using HID system, because of start up delays. This diagram will pick up relay trigger signal directly before high/low beam switch and will eliminate this problem. By combining a typical headlamp stock curcuit diagram with our single filament diagram, we will get the following diagram:"
http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hid-harness-dual-filament.gif
"magine that we connect the HID ballast directly to where the low beam halogen bulb is connected. Some vehicles might be are able to power up HID systems normally without problems at install time. Most probably, it will not last long. The inrush load can be up to max 13 amps per ballast, compared to 7amps inrush when using halogen. The factory design parameters for headlight curcuit is 7 amps inrush and 4.5 amps continous load. So over time, connectors, multifunction switch, headlight switch, wiring and fuse holders will slowly degrade, beacuse of heat buildup. These components are very time consuming to troubleshoot becuse they are usully well hidden behind dashboards and other wiring looms. Parts easily reaches several hundered dollars. Add 8h labour to that and it becomes obvious that a $50 wiring harness is a cheap insurance."








There is a pic of how to wire up an HID system like ours. To do it safely and use the stock wiring, you'd have to tap in between the ON/OFF switch and the HI/LOW beam switch.

Problem being -- getting to the wire that's in between those two switches and tapping into it!!!

[iceman]

Our setup is a little diff tho because the on/off / high beam is the same switch. Maybe it can be done at the BCM... I never thought of that actually.

Let me look in the morning.. but this can probably be done w/ just one diode at the BCM or one at each headlight harness.. gotta think about it. If we do BCM tho, I'm sure an SVS would come on after it seeing power on the low beam relay control when the high beams should be on.. sigh GM

[Panacea]

ttt

Seth, did you figure anything out? Also, did you read the link I posted?

[Rba007]

New Update:

Got another toy in the mail today. This stuff is very moldable when heated, And I plan to make the rear of the housing outta this stuff within the next week or so. Thought I ordered a couple of small sheets, then I got this Box:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=270319

[Rba007]

So, Ive got plenty of this stuff to work with!!! Its acryllic Mirror. The stuff those cool mirrors up in the ceiling at stores are made outta. Heres a quick pick, with the all scratched up plastic covering still on, but it give you an idea:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=270323

[Rba007]

It apparently becomes nicely flexible with a few hundred degrees of heat. You heat it, bend it as needed, then cool it (freeze it). Apparently after the freezing, it becomes less susceptible to the heat, allowing it to be used as a headlight housing. Ill keep you all up to date of course.

This weekend, Ill be installing the units in the car, and check their aiming. Once that is settled, I will work on molding this acryllic next weekend. :thumbs:

[rodd62]

dave, that last pic didnt work...at least for me.

[Rba007]

K, Ill try again:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=270334

[Vintalage]

Woah. Your doing some cool work. Pioneer. :)

Nice house. :D

[Rba007]

Well, that pic isnt of my work, but its an example of how nicely this material can be played with.


Thanks! Note how empty my candy corn pumpkin is.... I should be jogging right now.

[iceman]

Hmmm that acryllic mirror stuff is neat. Whered you get it, mcmaster?

Mac I read those links but w/ our cars the headlights are a diff game...

BCM can only turn on the low beams, not high, so I'll have to trace out the light stalk wires or figure somethin else out..

[Rba007]

Just found and bought a cool set of trim rings that will fit my projectors. Should be a nice finishing touch... Ebay Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2441815457)



Also, I attempted to make some backing from my mirrored acryllic this weekend using a dremel. Failed miserably. So, i spent 20 bucks on a cool bench grinder at sears today, time to get serious...

[Rba007]

New update 12/7/03

That acryllic mirror stuff was a major PITA. I found a few mixing bowls at meijer that did the trick after some work with a bench grinder though. I intend to have them chromed next week (this week Ive got finals everyday).



http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=298390

[Rba007]

Another:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=298392

[Rba007]

Rear View:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=298393

[rodd62]

offtopic, is that an Evoq poster on the wall behind the light??

[Rba007]

I ripped apart the GM calendar from the Chicago Auto show last year, its a pic of the Cadillac 16! Heres a quick shot of the rest of it...

BTW, Note how im not going to show you the floor. Its just sad.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=298539

[rodd62]

nice collection...

[Rba007]

I try! Whatever I get from the autoshow this feb is gonna have to go on the ceiling...