Bulletproof 4t40E/4t45E

[waffler]

well i stumbled apon this link http://www.domesticperformance.com/product_info.php?products_id=268 and saw this i dont know what its about but i thought some people would like to see this and maybe dig into it

[DumpsterDamon]

These modifications along with Blueprinting provide our units with much lower transmission temperatures, and Raised line pressures which in turn improves the durability of clutches, and Bands. With our TRUE Preloaded Limited slip option both wheels grab for serious launches handling 500 + HP.



^^that'd be nice, someone should call and see if this is all true.

[phantom505]

I hope this is for real. The only part that I'm sort of wondering about is the Blue Plate clutches. This is what Raybestos makes and we never heard back from them....

[BIGSweed]

thats alot of money but it handles ALOT of power, I hope someone has some kind of experience in dealing with them.
Good find Waffler!:cheers:

[2000GA]

6 month warranty too

[phantom505]

Well I'm emailing them back and forth with now. I'm working up to ask for a customer testimonial. :thumbs:

So far they sound like they know what they are talking about.

[waffler]

post all emails if u dont mind

[phantom505]

I'll post the parts that would be of interest here. Here's part I:

Yes raybestos makes them and they are for 1/4-mile use primarily. If you use the car on the road more often then you will be better off with the red clutch packs. They are a bit thinner than the blue ones but they give us the opportunity to add more clutch material for better life and grab. I need to warn you the blue clutches will not perform as long or as well for primarily street use. In the 1/4-mile they are far superior. If you go past the HP limit the only area we can imagine the unit having issues is the clutch material. There is a new material coming but it could be a few years before it hits the market. We also offer high strength axels and other performance upgrades not yet posted.

[H.O. Driver]

From the info on the website it shows that they are looking to see how many people are taking interest in these products. I could be wrong but I think that is how they have it worded.
I was looking at the 3.8l turbo kit and found this:
So far 0 people are interested in a 1987-1991 3.8lPontiac Bonneville Turbo

So far 1 person is interested in a 1992-1995 3.8lPontiac Bonneville Turbo

So far 0 people are interested in a 1996-1999 3.8lPontiac Bonneville Turbo

So far 1 person is interested in a 2000-2003 3.8lPontiac Bonneville Turbo

I am not sure if this applies to all their stuff, buy it seems kind of weird that they have tried to advertise on any of the GA websites.

[phantom505]

Even if we have to get this thing developed first, better than what is offered right now, which is precisely nothing.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by phantom505
Even if we have to get this thing developed first, better than what is offered right now, which is precisely nothing.
:stupid: You got a point there! Any good info from them yet?

[phantom505]

Just what I have posted up. If you noticed he said that they offered high strength transaxles. I'm guessing he wouldn't have said it that way if they didn't have a source from them.

I said part I in anticipation of a response to another email. I have other info, but right now that's for the boards YET.

[phantom505]

Very interesting info. I didn't know that the 4T80 had any relationship to the 4T45. Maybe the 4T45 isn't doomed afterall. So here's part II:

Our transaxles are the best money can buy and we are always willing to work with people who bring higher HP needs our way. Because you are working with HP Performance you can buy our unit through them or if they don’t care then we will be glad to sell you one.



The 4t45-e we offer uses the same torque converter we use on our 4t65-e hd uses the same clutch material we offer the same input shaft and the limited slip we offer is the only unit offering a true preloaded slip unit. we also offer stronger axels but they are not posted as of yet. Other companies do offer limited slips for the 4t65-e /HD but they are inferior in the way they grab and launch. Our torque converters are welded professionally (every fin and connection is welded including some other special tricks we have up our sleeves) and they are the same unit we use to eat 600hp on serious street dragsters.



Stall speed limit at this point is 3500.



At this point the 4t65-e/hd and all the 4t's are limited by the clutches. The blue will last quite awhile but I will not guarantee good results on the street compared to the reds. They ( all the FWD transaxles) can be made to take 600+hp if you really want it. The real limit comes down to the clutch packs and bands. Raybestos is still finishing up with there new material and I know of a few people who I can get these from when they are available. Somewhat sooner than when they hit the market. I also sell a 4t65-e that is equal to any of the units on the market toady with the exception that our limited slip is a better unit. I have direct contact with many of the people involved with the GM 900hp eco test/fun car and they have shared all the general information about the transaxle and its differences. The reason they can handle the great hp levels they do on the GM test car is because of the Torsen limited slip unit and the new clutch material. Other wise most of the advances are gearing based or already have been found.



I understand you have been looking for a long time but really there are 2 other companies who also build a close second to ours that would also work. Your unit can be made quite strong and with the right balance and clutch material you will do very well.



Your 4t45-e is actually a smaller 4t80-e, which is a stronger transaxle than the 4t65-e in design. This is also why people suggest converting due to the time other companies have had to improve on the older 4t65-e. If you go blue we can get you a deal on a rotating unit so we will use your core and give you an exceptional deal. I have to talk with our builders and get back to you with a price. I know I am ready to give you a deal but i have to do the math because when we are doing one unit at a time it just costs more due to the costs and profit are coming out of one unit instead of 10.



I have a few other tricks up my sleeve and if or when you are ready let us know and we might be able to get you some new clutch material form a contact of mine.

[95-GT]

3500 stall??!?!1? Thats a lil too high IMO for our cars. I would go with a 2500 max.

[jaketuff]

Have a 2000 GAGT 4t45 tranny sitting in the garage if anyone is interested....

.25
JOUT

[phantom505]

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I think we can go higher than 2500 though. Isn't that what the stock stall speed is? I was thinking of around a 2800-3000 RPM stall.

jake, I or Schweppe23 might want your core. I'm not sure what you would like to do, but we can work that out. We might be able to replace it, or just buy it depending on what you would like to do.

[95-GT]

Stock stall is in the 1000's

[nocutt]

If you are using a big turbo it is generally a good thing to have a looser converter...3000-3500 stall isn't bad, however you do loose efficiency, MPG etc the higher you go...so ultimately it will come down to how many miles you put on the car daily and what you want to do with the car...Ty from domestic performance is good people, he stands by his product...

[phantom505]

Originally posted by nocutt
If you are using a big turbo it is generally a good thing to have a looser converter...3000-3500 stall isn't bad, however you do loose efficiency, MPG etc the higher you go...so ultimately it will come down to how many miles you put on the car daily and what you want to do with the car...Ty from domestic performance is good people, he stands by his product...

So you've delt with him in the past?

And does anyone know for sure what the stall speed is?

[BIGSweed]

Originally posted by phantom505
I'll post the parts that would be of interest here. Here's part I:

If you use the car on the road more often then you will be better off with the red clutch packs. They are a bit thinner than the blue ones but they give us the opportunity to add more clutch material for better life and grab. I need to warn you the blue clutches will not perform as long or as well for primarily street use. In the 1/4-mile they are far superior. If you go past the HP limit the only area we can imagine the unit having issues is the clutch material.
Does this mean the red clutch packs are cheaper in price than the blue?

[phantom505]

I really don't know. I'll take a guess that it won't be significantly different. I could ask, but my guess is they are looking to sell the upgraded tranny for about $2500 plus options. But don't quote me on that because they haven't set the price yet.

[PontiacGT2K]

Wow....great find!

[phantom505]

Well they seem to be ready to deal...

The transaxle can be done for $2390.00 with the torque converter going for 450.00 plus the limited slip going for 599.00

Total cost will be $3589.00 including shipping and taxes

I'm not sure what the collective bargin might be. If you have the MONEY to do this post up. I'll see what we could get for a discount, if any for the number of people willing.

[phantom505]

Boy its a small world. Domestic Performance has already (before it was posted here) contacted HP Performance about the other project. So how's that for coincidence?

[jaketuff]

Originally posted by BIGSweed
Does this mean the red clutch packs are cheaper in price than the blue?

Not so much cheaper... the packs are pretty cheap though... Even the Blues are just about $120-150... the expense is the installation.

JOUT

[waffler]

looks like a stumbled apon something good

[cavingman]

man if they're for real, a whole new world just opened up for us :)

[Schweppe23]

This is something that i will need. 2390+450+599. How much if we send them our transmission (core)?

[phantom505]

I assume that was the price provided we have a core. Maybe not, I'll clarify. But usually there is a refundable core charge if we get one from him.

If I do this, I might hold off on the torque converter and the slip diff. I know that he wants to sell the slip diff. at the time of purchase, but if he using one off a 4T65 then I don't see why we can't do that later.

BTW, he said we could get whatever stall speed we want. Suggestions for forced induction?

[jaketuff]

I suggest 3,000 RPM... :D

JOUT

[Schweppe23]

What rpms does everyone launch at? I know i usually launch at 1700-2100...so why would we need a higher stall than stock maybe i'm not understanding?

[phantom505]

Pat, if you want to do this anytime soon I think we should get a hold of Jaketuff and see about using his core. That way we can send him a core in the end or something like that.

I think it's worth the risk. If you want PM nocutt and I think he can tell you more about Ty (the guy at the company).

Drop me a line if you want to talk about it.

[xhypno]

What about getting just the Packs, most small tranny shops will rebuild a tranny for 500 dollars (and that is including parts). If you already have the clutch packs, you can probally get it done cheaper..

It is worth a shot, because an Automatic tranny counts on the clutch packs to hold the torque going through it.

[Schweppe23]

I'm waiting till i find more out about this company. I don't want to be the gunei-pig til i know more. I'm also checking on a few other things before i commit.

Pat Lavanty

[kubiache]

That is a great find. How did they expect us to find them without making themselves mor known?

I would certainly be interested and able to spend the money IF my first choice of projects doesn't pan out.

[phantom505]

Well let's just say I have had extensive talks with this guy. If you are interested you should give him a call or email him.

Please, don't bug the guy unless you intend to buy. Figure about $3500 with all the goodies.

[phantom505]

Another small piece of the puzzle was found today. The plates are cut before they get to the shop that does the work. So they aren't cutting something for another tranny as far as they know.

I'm working on the deposit info for those who want this.

[97cavie24ls]

actually my 97 2.4 cav will stall around 2200-2300 rpm , i just stumbled accross this , and i gotta say its pretty cool

[phantom505]

Here's the latest. Even if nobody else will do this, I probably will.

I trust his product well enough to give it a shot. If any of you are interested here's your chance to give feedback.

I need to determine if we want to change gearing on any part of the tranny. We can do anything from change a gear or two, to all of them, or if we want we can change the entire final gear ratio.

What I want to do is get the pre-loaded slip, torque converter, and possibly go to a 3.69 final gearing over the 3.29 stock.

Suggestions and interest are wanted.

[nocutt]

...too much torque multiplication on the 3.69! I will stick with the LSD, 3.29 & looser converter...as long as the tranny is capable of handling the power from the turbo...leave the converter to put you up into the band quicker...
BTW Why 3.69?

[phantom505]

I don't remember all the calculations, but if you go 1 gear size up then it comes out to 3.69 after changing all the parts you need to in order to balance it properly.

I really think we can gain some time just by changing the gear ratios a little, and I might as well while I'm getting a better tranny.

Do you think there would be any advantage to say uping just 2nd & 3rd gears and leave 1st and 4th alone?

[nocutt]

I really think we can gain some time just by changing the gear ratios a little, and I might as well while I'm getting a better tranny.

I think you should also remember how many times you are in boost? If your mpg with a turbo doesn't make you ask why drive any harder? then going to 3.69 will...lol! I think 3.69 is better if you are building a drag car...just me:( but that gearing sucks for daily driving...especially with a 3400...don't get me wrong, whatever floats your boat!! Hwy cruising will also suck!!? I am also more than certain you will need a good program...to give you back OD...(not sure). 3.29 is the happy medium...unfortunately nothing in between 3.29 & 3.69!!

Do you think there would be any advantage to say uping just 2nd & 3rd gears and leave 1st and 4th alone?

This car is your daily driver :confused:
YGM...

[PontiacGT2K]

Originally posted by nocutt
I think you should also remember how many times you are in boost? If your mpg with a turbo doesn't make you ask why drive any harder? then going to 3.69 will...lol! I think 3.69 is better if you are building a drag car...just me:( but that gearing sucks for daily driving...especially with a 3400...don't get me wrong, whatever floats your boat!! Hwy cruising will also suck!!? I am also more than certain you will need a good program...to give you back OD...(not sure). 3.29 is the happy medium...unfortunately nothing in between 3.29 & 3.69!!



This car is your daily driver :confused:
YGM...

I would have suggested upping 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, leaving 1st alone....

[phantom505]

Maybe I won't bother then.

The reason why I would have left 4th alone is becuase then it wouldn't be an overdrive anymore.

I think the slip diff. and torque converter with upgraded chains and plates will do.

That's looking like a $3500 + install price.

I asked him how much he would want down to get these into production so hopefully I'll get an answer.