A Stroker 3400... Isn't it about time? [Archive]

IrateSpeed6

09-30-2003, 08:44 PM

Just out of curiosity - for those of you hoping to buy a turbo or SC setup, hasn't anyone considered stroking out the ol' 3400? It seems to be the saught-after thing to do for all the V8 guys... I would estimate cost around $1,800 w/ a 40+ hp upgrade - and that includes a whole bunch of space under the dyno curve througout the rpm range...

cavingman

09-30-2003, 08:51 PM

"A Stroker 3400... Isn't it about time?"

yes.

Black Z28

09-30-2003, 09:20 PM

yeah, but all these parts would have to be custom made.... everyone on here is having trouble getting a cam made Rob, and you'd need that with a stroker package.

AaronGAGT

09-30-2003, 09:34 PM

what exactly does stroker mean?

Schweppe23

09-30-2003, 09:49 PM

Rob what makes you think that u can get one for $1800?

IrateSpeed6

09-30-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Schweppe23
Rob what makes you think that u can get one for $1800? Shot in the dark man... guess all those custom parts will cost more. Why, how much did yours cost? :D

Jagey

09-30-2003, 10:09 PM

i would like to know what stroker is as well

ZakkWylde470

09-30-2003, 10:09 PM

4.0 L V-6...... *drools*

Black Z28

09-30-2003, 10:14 PM

basically a stoker package does this...... it lengthens the travel of the piston, therefore increasing the displacement. which in turn creates more power.

Vinaashak

09-30-2003, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by GrandAmRamAir
basically a stoker package does this...... it lengthens the travel of the piston, therefore increasing the displacement. which in turn creates more power.

Which if your goin for a high reving motor is bad. But then again more torque is always better, which you will gain with the stroker kit.

Black Z28

09-30-2003, 10:32 PM

but then you just change your cam, and valvetrain. use titanium rockers and retainers which will decrease the moving mass and you'll regain your high revving ability.

phantom505

09-30-2003, 11:25 PM

As much as I think that would be nice, I think the best and easiest way for us to go is increased effective compression ratio. Either with pistons and heads or forced induction or both.

I thought about it, and realized that doing a turbo would be hard enough. Trying to find a shop that I could trust to do engineering and then get the parts was a bit of long shot in my opinion.

But hey, if someone wants to do, go for it!!! I would love to see more options out there for the GA's.

AaronGTR

10-01-2003, 12:39 AM

Not so good idea IMO. Zoomer stroked the 3800 in his grand prix and blew it up in 3 weeks. Why you ask? Because stroker motors don't like to rev high. The 3400 already has a long stroke (one reason it makes lots of torque) and by stroking it to increase displacement you'd be making the stroke too long. It would dramatically increase piston speeds and acceleration change (acceleration, deceleration, direction change) and place huge stress loads on the internals. Besides a completely custom crank you'd also need all forge internals and new rings and wrist pins, which would be expensive, and you still couldn't rev very high. Just not worth the potential gain.

mfuller

10-01-2003, 08:30 AM

GM tried this a while ago....stroked 3400s to about 3.9L....they didn't hold together too well.

aleroboy

10-01-2003, 10:03 AM

thats prolly why they decided to bore out a 3400 to a 3500 instead fo stroke it.
the main problem is getting a crank.
scat will cost ya about 2200 per crank and you have to get 10 before they would do such a thing.
not to mention rebuilding the entire engine will get expinsive quick.
I'm more into a head and cam packege ;)

Robznob11

10-01-2003, 10:55 AM

strokeing usually means less rpms, true. but strokeing is the way to go. I have a 496 stroker big block. to stroke the engine you have to get a longer throw crank. witch usuall means longer rods and coustom shorter pistons. there is actually a formula and magic ratio you want to stay with in, and it deals with the amount of pressure you are putting on the side walls and skirt of your pistons. a 1 to 5 ratio will not last as long as a 1 to 6 ratio. this means nothing to you all im sure but I have reseached this extensivaly. as far as the 3.4 being so new and we can't even get a reasonable cam yet its shakey. but on the other hand alot of off road racers in the desert run stroked 2.8 60 degree v6 and the are said to with stand high rpms for long periods of times and hold together for many miles... there is a place in cape gerodo missouri that strokes 3.1 gen 2 moters into 3.4 race engines you can get them for the front wheel drive aplications. now I have to figure out how are fule and computer system would work. and Im not sure if gen 2 will bolt up to the same tranny as a gen 3. I can tell you this though they gaurentee 270 + hp with no super charger or nitros Imagen claming you have a 3.4 na ga but It will smoke da@# near any thing. Imagin if you boosted it. also gen 2 parts are a little easier to come by...:thumbs:

bszopi

10-01-2003, 11:20 AM

Ok, first off... a 3.1 is a stroked 2.8, and a 3.4 is a bored 3.1 (although the block is different with more meat around the cylinder walls... you can't safely bore a 3.1 to 3.4). This is all straight from the factory.

If you want to do some research on rod/stroke ratios (and many other topics), check out the following site:

http://www.theoldone.com/archive/

Sure, they deal with Honda engines, but all the basic principles still apply. And these guys know what they are doing when it comes to engines. Feel free to read about Larry Widmer's (The Old One) Honda Civic:

http://www.60degreev6.com/hlperf/Gifs%20&%20Pics/SC_Honda.jpg

Yeah, that's right... 1.55L 4-cyl with an M62, running up to 27psi of boost, producing 487hp... and still running pump gas and getting ~25mpg in town and ~35mpg on the highway.

rodd62

10-01-2003, 12:50 PM

how did he get up to 27 psi out of a m62???

Robznob11

10-01-2003, 02:00 PM

I was hopeing you would chime in. I called the place and talked to the man He told me they only specialize in 60 degree race engines. I asked about the 3.4 If It was like my 3.4 he told me point blank it was a 3.1 stroked to a 3.4. now if it is relly a 2.8 stroked to a 3.4 well maby I don't know relly don't care. all I wan't to know is will it bolt up to my tranny. I have herd ther were two tipes of blocks produced one fits rear wheel and one for the front wheel cars and some came with provisions to go eather way. this comes strait out of a book on hopping up 2.8 and 3.1 60v6. I figured you may have some imput beings you are knolagable about these engines..

bszopi

10-01-2003, 02:26 PM

There are 2 different blocks for FWD and RWD. The only block that has provisions for both is the BowTie aluminum block (~$3000). The differences are the location of the starter bosses. You can take a RWD block and drill and tap it on the opposite side for the starter though. Is the company you are talking about ARE (or something like that?). The 3.4 they have is NOT a 3400, nor any variance of it. I have heard several comments about the company and none have really been that good. Gimme a link and I'll look into it more...

2003GAGT

10-01-2003, 02:29 PM

Stroker 3400? Geez, that's pretty hardcore. When I sold my three mustangs and bought the GA I never imagined people were even thinking about doing that...

AaronGTR

10-01-2003, 05:34 PM

Now here's a good question. Does anyone know if the alminum chevy block is the same as our iron 3400 block, or if it could be made to work? Now that would be nice! No real hp gain but a substantial drop in weight. That would help acceleration and especially handling.

Ant

10-01-2003, 06:37 PM

question...with all this torque wouldn't torque steer be a MAJOR problem? especially if the engine is stroked AND blown...

aleroboy

10-01-2003, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by AaronGTR
Now here's a good question. Does anyone know if the alminum chevy block is the same as our iron 3400 block, or if it could be made to work? Now that would be nice! No real hp gain but a substantial drop in weight. That would help acceleration and especially handling.
it says it covers the early years of the FWD and RWD but I"m pretty sure it was built before our engine was
I aslo know in 94 they made block changes and the bosses are different.
fortunately our engine is supported by the front cover and the transmission so that doesnt really matter.
the only concern is if the AC compressor would bolt up or not.
also your looking at only saving 45lbs for about 3500 bucks.
also the max bore and the max stroke are less than what we have so the block would most likely have to be resleeved for our bore and also mods made to fit our larger stroke crank.
the block looks like it was mainly built to replace the 2.8L block

our block is said to have the same oiling system as the aluminum block
also our main caps are different because they cross bolt to the oil pan

atc3434

10-01-2003, 09:29 PM

While were all getting hardcore about big v-6's, has anybody looked into fitting a 4.3 ;)

STRMurphy

10-01-2003, 09:43 PM

or a 3.8... was supposed to get a swap done and put a SC 3.8 from the GTP in my GA, but havent been able to get in touch with the guy that did his own

SPAZ

10-02-2003, 08:55 PM

Some info for some of ya !!!

A stroker motor is used to produce greater torque, all there power is at the lower rpm...ie 5,500 rpm and down (example).

A destroked motor produces less torque, and allows you to turn higer rpms..ie like a 327 V8 turning 10,000 rpm...:D (example).

Both have advantages and disadvantages. I personaly think that a larger increase in torque work tare our drivetrains apart. Higer horsepower is what i strive for, Nothing better than someone bettering you off the line, and then you come flying past them on the top end...just before the lights......:thumbs:

PontiacGT2K

10-02-2003, 09:15 PM

Hm......a de-stroked 3400, with s/c to make up for loss in low end torque, that revs to ~10,000 rpm. Hm.

Robznob11

10-03-2003, 10:11 AM

when you stroke and enging you also increase the displacement (cubic inches) any time you do this your going to end up with more power. and by the way you could have 600 hp with only 300 lbtq and some one with 450 hp and 500 lb tq is more than likely going to smoke you every time. why wait till half way down the track to kick in the power why not have it now. you can spin strokers fast if you use parts that will hold together. my 496 is rated to 7500 although I have my crane box set for 6200 max. Id like to see some one try to spin a stock 454 past 5500 rpm, It won't last long....old hot rodders terms are **** There is no replacement for displacement . ****:thumbs:

Babalouie

12-17-2003, 08:44 PM

Rob, RSM built my car into a 3.7 monster.

schizm99

12-17-2003, 10:17 PM

The thought of stroking a 6 is well wierd! We are all taking to much time and too much money to make these GA's competitive. We should all try a new approach! Just a thought here, Shave the heads down and increase piston size. Still talkin some amount of money but it is realistic!

aleroboy

12-17-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by schizm99
The thought of stroking a 6 is well wierd! We are all taking to much time and too much money to make these GA's competitive. We should all try a new approach! Just a thought here, Shave the heads down and increase piston size. Still talkin some amount of money but it is realistic!
better yet, BOOST:D
make up for our lack of displacement:thumbs:

SilverEcstasy

12-18-2003, 10:27 PM

Yeah, speaking of boost, when's that kit coming out John??

aleroboy

12-18-2003, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by MikeNT256
Yeah, speaking of boost, when's that kit coming out John??

dunno. waay to early to tell
shaft leaver here soon to get the longer one made
wanted pics before it left but my friend is now out of town and I'm not waiting.

3x3

12-18-2003, 10:51 PM

Rest assured there is a stroker kit that will be available soon. I am working with the company as of right now to get the specifics. The crank will be offset. The rods will remain the same length, (5.7in) and the pistons will be overbore .5mm. I hope to have some good news within the upcoming months on this. The 3.4 can be stroked to 3.8. That is solid power across the powerband. The crank will cost in the neighborhood of $1000 - $1200 depending on how far you go with it. The crank is made out of forged steel. I don't know exactly how much the kit will cost but I will know soon enough.

TurboDropTop

12-21-2003, 03:45 AM

stroking can mean lower rpm's and less reliability in certain applications. I know my dad stroked his 3.8L GN motor out to a 4.1L which was very popular when they first came out, however much like im hearing from the 3.4L owners, the walls aren't that thick and can tend to fail. In the DSM's 4G63 motor I know alot of people have stroked the 2.0 out to 2.3L and 2.4L while still maintaining a similiar powerband and ~7500rpm redline.

jaberwaki

12-22-2003, 03:22 AM

i hear alot of ppl concerned about loosing high revs because of stoking...
also hearing ppl like having hp on top without tq down low...

why:confused:

guys you do know that hp is nothing more then a formula based on tq right? if you have more tq down low the you also have a much flatter tq curve and a larger power band....
with high reving motor you may get big hp numbers but your power band is like 6000rpms -7000 rpms....
i would much rather have a power band that went from 1500-5700:thumbs:
hp is cool on the dyno
tq wins races

i see it at the track alot... 900hp supra vrs 600 hp mustang
winner mustang.... why?
because the supra is only making power in the last 2000 rpms of its band and the mustang is make big numbers all the way from launch to redline...
if you have a real high spinning motor then you also have to gear your car to keep it there.. also means more shifts...
but if your car make gobs of tq you can keep much more street freindly gears in and still dominate at the track....

300 hp 190 tq= 13.9
280 hp 300 tq= 13.2
(estimate)

atc3434

12-22-2003, 10:45 AM

Jaberwaki's got a good statment there, about hp being little more than a formula of tq and rpm. My Camaro is about 260hp and 390lbs at the crank and it makes all that at less than 4500 rpm. I would dare a modded up 4 banger with 300hp at 8,000 rpm to challenge me. He's got my out horsepowered, and definitely weighs less. But he doesn't even see any power till he's up over 5000rpm. I make thick power from 2000 to 4500... its like a big electric motor. I don't have to pull super short gears either. 3.27's are more than enough for me, I can't keep the rubber hooked up even with those. And I still get a decent cruise RPM, like maybe 2250 at 70. That'll still get some mileage. I'll take torque over hp any day.