HOW TO: Clear HVAC knobs and any color lighting for them [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:04 PM
Well, Im finally done with a long time project of having clear HVAC knobs and making the light behind them blue. It was a PITA, but well worth it after seeing the finished project. Here I want to share how to do it, so anyone who wants to try this hopefully wont run into as much crap as I did getting it done...

First off, you are going to need to purchase 3 new knobs (unless you are making all the lighting red) from gmpartsdirect, or your local dealership, the part number you need is 16182994. Make sure to buy three, as it says its a pack, but its a pack of 1. Other tools and parts needed:
1 small flat-head screwdriver
1 ratchet set
2 3mm LED's (whatever color you are doing the lighting in)
6 3mm or 5mm LEDs (same color)
1 Soldering iron
1 de-soldering tool or wick
1 spool of solder
1 470 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor
2 butt-splice connector sets (2 male and 2 female)
1 pair of pliers (needlenose)
1 pair of wire cutters
1 crimping tool

Ok, now for the fun part


Start off by removing the trim around the ignition key and then removing the radio trim. Do this my sliding the flathead around the ouside underneath the trim and gently pulling it out. You will have to place the shifter in a position other than PARK to do this. Remove the wiring harnesses for the ETS and HAZARD lights... they will come off with the flathead....

Next is getting the HVAC out. Most books recommend that anytime you mess with anything electronic in the car you remove the battery leads and so on, but as long as you dont have your key in the ignition, you will be all set. Using the ratchet set, remove the two bolts from either side of the HVAC control. Next, gently pull the HVAC module out as far as it can go. There should be 4 things connected to it. On the left is some wires, remove this piece as you did the ETS light piece. Next, another wiring harness, same thing. Under that there is a double vacuum line. To remove this, use the flathead and push the rubber loop over the plastic arrow looking piece, then pull it off. Lastly there is a big circular hoobie with a bunch of vacuum lines on it. There are three places it is connected. Use the flathead to pry each off. WARNING!!! There is a small steel ball inside this piece, it is very easy to lose. Be careful when removing this vacuum harness or you will drop the ball (hehe). Not fun to find.

Once you have the module out, take it to your work area, make sure you have that stupid little steel ball, or you put it someplace you wont lose it. At this point remove the two left side HVAC knobs, keep the right side one on until you are ready to take the module apart. Looking at the module you will see 4 places the front clips to the back. Use the flathead to pop it off. WARNING!!! If you dont keep the right side knob on until this point, pieces will go flying everywhere! The knob holds it all together. Ok, now, on the back side where you unplugged the big vacuum harness, you will see a black circle piece... hold that in place and then remove the third HVAC knob. Now carefully remove that piece and its internals. There should be the black platic disk, 3 springs, and a brass disk. Dont lose these pieces... Took me a while to find one of those springs... and the little steel ball... not fun. Anyway, once that is removed, pry apart the front and back and you should see inside the white part a circuit board. This is a bitch to remove. If you look on the other side of the white piece you will see at one end a small hole, and in the middle three small holes in an arc... inside these holes are pins... use the flathead and push the pins out, thereby pushing out the circuit board... its a pain. Once removed, get ready for some soldering (and desoldering)

Looking at the board you will see two LEDs (3mm) which convieniently have the direction they are mounted printed net to them. The rest are just bulbs. The two LEDs are the lights you see when the rear defrost is on, or when the A/C button is depressed. Go ahead and look at one of your new LEDs. Inside you will see a fat part and a skinny part and a reeeeeeeeeeaaally small wire connecting them. The fat part is the anode, goes in the direction of the arrow on the board, thus if looking at the arrow on the board iand it points to the right, the fat metal piece inside the LED goes on the right. I hope Im not offending anyone, there are many out there who dont know anything about LEDs so Im trying to make this as simple as possible... anywho... make sure your new LEDs go in the same way, with the fat part in the direction of the arrow, or else the LED wont turn on.

DESOLDERING
To desolder: I find the wick works best, and the way I do it (Im not the best when it comes to this, so there is probably a better way) is to place the wick over what you want to take solder off of, and then place the soldering iron tip onto the wick and press against the solder until you see it melt and travel up the wick. Once you have desoldered the 2 LEDs and 6 bulbs, its time to solder in some LEDs

SOLDERING
To solder: Again, Im not the best at this, so someone else probably could do it better, and I wont even go into it I guess... Just make sure the LEDs go in the right direction, or you are going to have to desolder them and turn them 180 later... not fun. I will post drawings and pics after the text version of this.

Once all the soldering is done, its time to put it all back together. This can be tricky, but Ive done it like 5 times now, so its not too bad... anyway, place the board back into the white plastic piece and press the stabs into the holes. Make sure its a tight fit, as those stabs are the power and ground I believe... Then put the front piece back on and clip it together. Now, take the brass disk from before and place it inside the back of the white piece. It goes in a certain way. Look at the photo and notice where the arrow is pointing. You will notice on the brass piece there are several raised bits, and only one if them isint a circle. That "rectangular" bit goes where the arrow is pointing. Next, put the springs back in the black disk and carefully put that back into the module. I did it with everything horizontal, so the springs wouldnt fall out. You will also notice the springs match up to certain indented parts of the brass, and only fits one way. Hold the black piece in there and put the knob back on for that switch. That should hold it together.

THE RESISTOR
To make this all work and not burn up the LEDs, you will need to put a resistor inline with the power soming into the unit. Go back out to your car and find the middle wiring harness, the one closest to the two hose vacuum piece. There is a grey wire there. Cut the wire and put in the resistor (about 470 ohms... the smaller the brighter the lights will be, but I dont recommend anything less than about 300 ohms). This parts you have to figure out how you want to do it, I took and soldered a bit of wire to each end of the resistor, then put a female butt splice piece on the ends of the wires, wrapped it all in electrical tape (going to heat shrink it later) and then put male splices on the two ends of the grey wires. Doesnt matter which way the resistor goes in, it cant be backwards. Put the resistor in, wrap the ends in electrical tape, and then you are done... installation of the module is the opposite of removal.

CLEAR KNOBS
Ok, those knobs that I gave you the P/N for, they are from the Sunfire I believe. They are a bit thinner than ours, and not quite as nice, but with a little modification, they work great. First off, the grey rubber/vinyl crap on them just peels off... really nice. But you will notice there are little bumps on it. I too my dremel to the whole knobs and smoothed it out. Next, if you were to just try and put the knobs on your module, you will notice they go on "backwards" as in, the pointers dont point the right direction... so, to fix that,, first you have to remove the little metal half circle piece inside the hole. Kind of a pain, but it'll come out. Next, using a drill, drill out the hole so it is a full circle. Next, use the smallest bit you have and drill a pilot hole through the stem on the opposite side the flat end of that metal thing was on. I dont have a pic for this, so you can PM me later if you dont understand, Ill eventually get a pic up of what I mean. Now, you are going to need to get the smallest setscrew you can find, and insert that into the hole you just made. This will act as waht stops the knobs from spinning freely. Put the knob on the post of whatever switch it is for, and make sure the setscrew touches the flat part of the post of the switch... use an allen head to tighten it up, and voila, you are done! Hope this helps people, I had a hell of a time doing this, but its worth it now that its done.

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:10 PM
OK, here is the first pic, showing the resistor mentioned at the end of the HOW TO

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:13 PM
This is showing where the spring with the steel ball is

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:15 PM
The steel ball... dont lose it!

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:17 PM
This is that rectangular piece and where it matches up

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:19 PM
where it matches up

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:21 PM
Where you need to push the board out from

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:24 PM
Tomorrow Ill post the drawing for the LEDs... if by some chance I dont get to that and you want to do this right away.... trial and error... just put them in whatever way, put it backl together without the front piece on it, turn it on and see which ones dont light up (other than the two 3mm for the buttons)... if they dont turn on, you have them backwards

gobraves02002
02-15-2004, 09:30 PM
finished product

gobraves02002
02-15-2004, 09:31 PM
u bought knobs that werent red in tint

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:32 PM
yes, yes I did.... they are Sunfire knobs....

gobraves02002
02-15-2004, 09:38 PM
u go to dealership to buy or online??
can u take pic of the back of the knob so i can see if same shape as mine please

STRMurphy
02-15-2004, 09:38 PM
It wont let me post the pic again of the final product... look under All Show: Blue HVAC finally thread that I did and its there... only one knob for now as I just got done with the other two and havent had time to take a picture... Ill get one up later this week

GTManiac
02-15-2004, 10:26 PM
WOW! a fantastic how-to. ALOT of work (almost more than it seems it is worth.) but props to you for doing it and that blue LED interior looks tight. Thanks for the how-to.

STRMurphy
02-16-2004, 04:04 AM
The back of the knob is the same shape, as in it will fit on the post, but they dont have the two little stabs to keep it from spinning all the way around... and yeah, I bought them from gmpartsdirect.com

sicc
02-16-2004, 01:27 PM
first you have to remove the little metal half circle piece inside the hole. Kind of a pain, but it'll come out. Next, using a drill, drill out the hole so it is a full circle. Next, use the smallest bit you have and drill a pilot hole through the stem on the opposite side the flat end of that metal thing was on. I dont have a pic for this, so you can PM me later if you dont understand, Ill eventually get a pic up of what I mean. Now, you are going to need to get the smallest setscrew you can find, and insert that into the hole you just made. This will act as waht stops the knobs from spinning freely. Put the knob on the post of whatever switch it is for, and make sure the setscrew touches the flat part of the post of the switch... use an allen head to tighten it up, and voila, you are done! Hope this helps people, I had a hell of a time doing this, but its worth it now that its done.

this part completely throws me off.. cant wait for pics. i will be doing this as soon as i get this part. GOOD JOB! :thumbs:

STRMurphy
02-16-2004, 03:09 PM
yeah, its really hard to describe without pics, Ill try to get some posted tomorrow

Kodeblue
02-16-2004, 03:51 PM
I seen the pic of the finished product in the other thread and it looks good. Just one question though, why not get the clear knobs and paint them blue with transparent paint? Wouldn't that be easier?

STRMurphy
02-16-2004, 04:44 PM
That would probably be easier except that 1) Paint looks bad in my opinion, I did that with my dome light and Im working on changing that out to LEDs too, 2) I have an LED fetish now... been putting them everywhere, next is vents, cupholders, and ni the doors (have an idea brewing for that)... but yes, paint would work... the other thing too is the clear knobs show a bit of light around them, and with the LEDs its blue light, with paint it would be that pukey yellow... but its all a matter of preference

magyver
02-16-2004, 06:08 PM
00 chevy converstion/cargo vans have blue knobs, but they 2 are a dat bit smaller and the peg is backwords, so you could do the sam ething he did... ill post a pict later...

Turbodreams-se
03-08-2004, 10:53 PM
didn't luminas have the same knobs as the ga but blue? i remember somebody saying it was exactly the same

STRMurphy
03-09-2004, 04:18 AM
If you can get me a part number Ill find out for you

Turbodreams-se
03-09-2004, 04:20 AM
ill see what i can find

highwayprowlerz
04-06-2004, 07:10 PM
I would love to make mine purple but I don't know if I would want to go through all that trouble. Do they have plain old clear knobs? Anyway, great HOW TO!!

GTluver
07-15-2004, 12:02 AM
this part completely throws me off.. cant wait for pics. i will be doing this as soon as i get this part. GOOD JOB! :thumbs:

hey murphy, did u got pics on the instructions for this part? this part also throws me off.....i get the rest not just this......w/o pix anyways :rolleyes:

STRMurphy
07-16-2004, 03:41 PM
I cant remember what part that was, Ill look through the posts later and figure it out, most likely still have pics of it though

GALover
07-17-2004, 07:24 PM
I cant remember what part that was, Ill look through the posts later and figure it out, most likely still have pics of it though
He means hard to figure out how to reverse the D-clip in the Sunfire :knob:'s without pic's. I also don't understand this part. I am switching the LED's tonight to blue and already have the Sunfire knobs. Dremels all ready to go to.

GALover
07-19-2004, 12:12 AM
Mod's can you give me the power to edit just STRmurphy's post here?

I just completed it and have some additional info to make it easier for everyone. The only socket you'll need is a 7mm with a short extension.
No need to disconnect the battery.
Don't need the butt splice.
In the second paragraph after you pull the HVAC out as far as it can go, there is no need to remove all the wiring/hoses/steel ball. Skip everything inbetween until: In the third paragraph start at: pry apart the front and back and you should see inside the white part a circuit board. Use any pointy object to push to pins through.

The 470 Ohm resistor is for blue. If you know LED's properties, diff colors have diff power requirements. You should change your resistor accordingly.

The wiring instructions for the 3mm's are backwards. We did as instructed and it is wrong. The anvil side goes away from the arrow.

In THE RESISTOR paragraph you don't need to do any of the butt splicing. Just solder the resistor (I used the 470 Ohm 1/2 watt as recommended without problem) inline and electrical tape around.

Tip: To wire the 5mm's: You can track the circuit board lines, and if it ends on a large plate or into a post, wire that one to the negative aka the anvil side.

Tip: The 5mm lights on the board are on 2 different circuits.

HUGE NOTE: Don't forget the resistor before you test it. I blew all 6 instantly when we forgot that part.

The Sunfire knob's are a little diff with diff years. Don't go to the dealer for these! My dealer wanted $18ea x 3? I went to a junk yard and got all 3 for $1.00. Be sure you get all 3 from the same year. Mine are from an older one and they are smoother around the edge's. The first junk yard I went to only had one knob so I am using it for practice. I should post a how to on the knob's alone I guess.

Now on to the Sunfire :knob:'s. :woowoo

GTluver
07-19-2004, 01:58 AM
did u took pix by chance??

GALover
07-19-2004, 12:06 PM
STRmurphy pretty much says it all. An excellent How to. No pic's, they're not needed really. Very self explanatory. Just follow it line by line and read ahead a little (like the stupid resistor).

GTluver
07-19-2004, 05:48 PM
yea but where im really lost is when u put the screw in the stem, what kinda screw is it.......i know its gotta be the smallest one u can put in there, but.....is it any kinda screw or a specific one......murphy was saying something about adjusting it w/ an allen wrench so i was thinking maybe an allen screw is needed :confused:

GALover
07-19-2004, 06:15 PM
It's a set screw. I was lost too. Asked my buddy (airplane mechanic). "Oh", he says "I'll steal 3 from work for ya, no biggy. We use those all the time". He'll bring it over tonight I hope. I was picturing going down the stem with it. And was really torn on how that would work. Then he said go in through the side of the stem not down along the hole. But perpendicular to it. Ohhhhh, i see. He also has allen wrech style set screws. Look at a countersink bit. If the bit is replaceable there is a set screw in there. Use something like that.

STRMurphy
07-19-2004, 09:24 PM
GALover, thanks for correcting some of my deficiencies... I love this mod, and you figured out an easier way to do it, kudos to you bro... Now, for the knobs, this is a project Ive continually tried to perfect, Id love to know what year knobs you used, as the ones I buy are kind of flimsy, but still work... anyway, I tried a new way of doing it, which worked just as well, a little more time consuming, but looks a little nicer. If you are any good with a dremel, and with liquid plastic (can pick it up at any craft store), what I did for my 4th or 5th experiment with the knobs was cut out a notch on the opposite side of the flat part of the hole on the underside of the knob, then created a barrier with tape to tape over half the hole on the other side... then you take just a little bit of the plastic and fill in the notch you cut, all the way to the top of the tape... hard to explain, and dont have any pics at the moment, but hopefully you get the idea... just creating that flat part on the other side... the stuff takes a while to dry, and you have to have the knob in a vice or similiar thing to hold it perfectly so that you get a good flat plastic bit.... but it works... the plastic dries clear, and it works like a charm... the notch you cut is for support, plastic on plastic doesnt always hold. The allen screw or set screw is a ton easier, this other way is just nit picky and more professional I guess. Anyway, glas you guys enjoyed this mod! Now change out all the lights in your instrument cluster with LEDs! Way better than any gauge face you can put on to change the colors of lights... But I recommend getting a new gauge face from a place like customautoaccents.com with clear numbers and letters... especially with blue LEDs, they done shine through the red plastic well at all

GALover
07-22-2004, 02:19 PM
Finished the knobs last night. No prob's to report with the set screw. Use a 13/64" drill bit to turn the "D" into a circle. I put a tiny drop of super glue on the set screw to lock it in there permanently. I think my knob's are from a late '90's Sunfire. They seemed very strong for there age. I have 1 knob from a '02ish Sunfire but the edges were very brittle and jaged. I've been using that as my test knob.
Question: I can't get the center knob to sit as low as the others. How did you get past this? There is that metal piece that attaches it to the circuit board. I was thinking of routing out the backside of the knob. But if I do that I will have to drill the hole for the 'D' ring deeper too. I'm torn...
How did you get something in there to match the stoppers from the red knobs? My left knob spins all the way around even though it sits all the way down flush.

STRMurphy
07-23-2004, 04:23 PM
I have the smae thing going on with mine, both the center one being further out, and the others spinning freely... I havent gotten around to fixing them yet. If you notice on the red knobs that came off the grand am, there are two teets inside where the shaft is, thats what stops those from going all the way around... just have to come up with something similar for these other knobs... like I said, havent gotten around to solving that problem yet, but everything still works, looks good, just have to remember not to turn the knobs all the way around

GALover
07-23-2004, 06:02 PM
I think I'm going to try to find some Cavalier knobs from a junk yard and see how they would fit. Can someone make a list of all the knobs that would fit on the GA please. I think someone posted that a mini-vans' knobs would fit and came in blue opaque plastic. Since we have the interior "D" clips and the set screws I guess we can try just about any knob we like. Is liquid plastic clear? I was thinking of making a plaster mold of the knob and making my own. STRMurphy what happened to your project with the Pontiac arrow knobs? After some searching on here. Looks like any GM model will work.
I have a short in one/few of my solders in there. What is the part #/price for a new HVAC circuit board? Blowing my original set of LED's really made it hard to re-solder.

Rich
07-23-2004, 06:56 PM
if you made a clear knob. i would buy some from you. i would like to do this mod myself and that sounds like a good plan. and since i heard the GA knobs look cooler then the sunfire/cav knobs anyway.

GTluver
07-23-2004, 07:34 PM
the cav/sunfire knobs are pretty much the same....i went to the junkyyard and got 3 knobs from each car and they look identical. If i dont mess any of them, when i do my knobs, i will have 3 xtra....for any takers :D

GALover
07-23-2004, 07:39 PM
Me Me Me Me Me for playing with.

STRMurphy
07-25-2004, 07:11 AM
If you go and get plastic resin, yes, it does dry clear... I wouldnt suggest a plaster mold though, tried that and it came out horrible... as I havent had time to work on this (just got married) and still have parts half finished, Ill tell you that plaster, wood, clay all suck for molds... the wood worked the best out of all three though... my next test was to make a mold from fiberglass... my first attempot just ended up with a GA knob stuck in fiberglass... but I think Ive figured out how to get it to work. With fiberglass, if you were to cover the knob you are making the mold from in grease, that should keep it from adhering to the fiberglass. Im moving soon, but when I get where Im going Im going to try this project again... may take me a few months, but Ill let ya'll know if I perfect it... so far just rough operational drafts

GTluver
07-27-2004, 10:16 PM
i fuked up :rage:

i was all done and ready to test the module ......so i grabbed the piece w/ a hand like it was a solid object.....forgot i had to keep it upside down so the steel ball and the spring wont fly and get lost........well guess what.........that just happened..........looked everywhere and cant find em :rage: guess im screwed.......can i still test the module and see if it works? (i wanna make sure so i can take it apart again and correct any problems instead of taking everything apart again). Whats the purpose of that steel thing and the spring? imma try and find something silimar at menards and see if that works

STRMurphy
07-28-2004, 04:55 PM
the steel ball and spring work like any kind of preload really... puts pressure on the switch and contact plate to keep them in place... kind of a vital part, but you can still hook it up to see if the lights work and the switch look right

GALover
07-29-2004, 02:32 PM
i fuked up :rage:

i was all done and ready to test the module ......so i grabbed the piece w/ a hand like it was a solid object.....forgot i had to keep it upside down so the steel ball and the spring wont fly and get lost........well guess what.........that just happened..........looked everywhere and cant find em :rage: guess im screwed.......can i still test the module and see if it works? (i wanna make sure so i can take it apart again and correct any problems instead of taking everything apart again). Whats the purpose of that steel thing and the spring? imma try and find something silimar at menards and see if that works
Hind site is 20/20. In the second paragraph after you pull the HVAC out as far as it can go, there is no need to remove all the wiring/hoses/steel ball. Skip everything inbetween until: In the third paragraph start at: pry apart the front and back and you should see inside the white part a circuit board. Use any pointy object to push to pins through.
You didn't need to drop the ball in the first place?

STRMurphy
07-29-2004, 04:37 PM
Perhaps not, I just pulled out the whole unit so I could take it inside, it was the middle of winter when I did this and wicked cold out...

Rich
08-08-2004, 12:49 PM
hey guys check out this thread.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474307#post474307post474307

shades of night used black century knobs in his car. they glow white and they fit with no modification. these could be some knobs to play around with. i dont know if you could get them to glow blue or not but it would be worth a shot.

fischer7585
08-12-2004, 11:34 AM
Does anyone know if knobs from a 99+ GA will fit on my 96?. I want red knobs but found out after I had already ripped apart my current ones that they were white with some crappy little red inserts. Then I tried spraying the inserts but they still look cheap so I was hoping I could get ahold of some red ones that look better. Thanks

GALover
08-12-2004, 11:51 AM
Snap me a quick pic and I'll let you know.

GTluver
08-12-2004, 06:09 PM
well i screw up my A/C module trying to do this mod :(. @ first, i got the 4 leds from one of the 2 circuits lit up.....but guess i messed them up when i tried to get the other 2 leds (the 2nd circuit) to light up. Can 5MM also be fitted into where the original 3mm leds where? Those never lit for me either after trying w/ 3mm or 5mm leds.

Anywayz, Will anyone do this mod for me if i pay you? This is serious. I would send ya everything that is gonna be needed(the module, 5MM leds {8 are needed but will send a cpl extra is case u burn some, if not, for you to keep :) } I will even send you 2x resistors so u can do it to ur car or to keep 'em.

If anyone is willing to do this, PM me or let me know and we'll take it from there. It's fairly easy mod but when it comes to working w/ 'tiny' stuff, my hands are to shaky for that. Damn coffeeine lol

Edit: Clearing the knobs and getting them to fit in the module is not necessary since i can do that. The only thing i need is the leds welded into the module. :cool:

badboyndsu
09-02-2004, 12:22 AM
Does anyone know if knobs from a 99+ GA will fit on my 96?. I want red knobs but found out after I had already ripped apart my current ones that they were white with some crappy little red inserts. Then I tried spraying the inserts but they still look cheap so I was hoping I could get ahold of some red ones that look better. Thanks

I used to own a 97 GT, and the knobs were like a see through red. No white in sight.

GTluver
04-12-2005, 09:46 PM
Well i finally took pics of this....thanks to 'GALover' for soldering the leds for me... let me know what ya think

http://pim.infospace.com/PimMailboxFS/9/mysbccom/1/1/3/2/162323119/Picture_316.jpg
http://pim.infospace.com/PimMailboxFS/9/mysbccom/1/1/3/2/162323119/Picture_317.jpg

Rich
04-12-2005, 09:48 PM
wow man :thumbs: :thumbs: looks great. how did doing this mod go for you?

GTluver
04-12-2005, 09:55 PM
well its fairly easy mod....xcept for someone who has shaky hands lol I sent my unit to Jason so he can solder them.... I did the rest.....looks great...im still using the silver overlay from autoaccents....if it was clear or transparent overlay, it would b hotter

STRMurphy
04-13-2005, 11:11 AM
How did you go about getting the knobs to face the right way? Want to see if anyone else has been sucessful in my method. Great Job with that, looks outstanding!

GTluver
04-13-2005, 06:35 PM
Murphy....i did it as per your instructions......very easy to follow....you just gotta re-read them a couple times cuz they are kinda long but it's all in your instructions. Didnt do anything else outta the ordinary lol thanks for the how-to i have this mod :thumbs:

godofthunder
04-14-2005, 07:39 AM
My 96 Cutlass has the same knobs as my 95 GAGT, but black

mickey
06-28-2005, 05:51 PM
can any one repost the photos of the clear knobs on thier car lit up? all of the ones i have found here are gone or not working links, would like to see this. Thanks!

STRMurphy
06-29-2005, 07:05 AM
Do a search for "Blue HVAC finally" and you should find the thread that has the pics, I dont know how to link it here and it wont let me upload the pics again.

Rich
06-29-2005, 07:11 AM
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30150&highlight=HVAC+LED%27s

heres the thread. all you needed to do was copy and paste the link.