stock unit was trashed!or was it? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

PDA

View Full Version : stock unit was trashed!or was it?


schizm99
10-16-2002, 07:30 PM
I just replaced the stoch HU in my 2000 GA gt with a pioneer HU cd/am/fm/xm unit. And to my surprise the stock unit sounded better! I can't turn the volume up past 18 without distortion. Was there a remote amplifier on this year car? If so can I use it? The HU was installed using a connecting kit to keep the wires stock! I have a 1400watt amp that will be driving 1 15" solo baric sub. If I get the time to install that tommorow! Also I would like to replace the stock rear deck speakers with 6x9 sony explodes which I already have! But what is up with the poor sound? Did I miss something? I think the ohms is 8 not 4. but that shouldn't make that big of a difference, should it?

Anyway to sum up the install thus far: Pioneer HU, stock speakers, AUX to amp (not connect yet)

grass
10-17-2002, 08:32 PM
going from 4 ohm to 8 ohm is like turning the volume half down

AmIGrand
10-18-2002, 03:59 PM
Did your old car have the Monsoon system?

GTkid
10-18-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by schizm99
And to my surprise the stock unit sounded better! I can't turn the volume up past 18 without distortion.
Anyway to sum up the install thus far: Pioneer HU, stock speakers, AUX to amp (not connect yet)

does it get as loud as it used to? or does it just get distorted at easier, because stock HU has some kind of balancing thing to protect everything under warranty. if you turn the radio up too high it lowers everything to wattage that the speakers can handle. I loved that feature but i had to do without when i replaced it with my new HU which is in fact a pioneer. and there IS an amp located under the trunk liner to the left i believe. however it is small, something to the tune of 25wX2 or something. anyhow with some find tuning on my EQ my aftermarket setup was far superior to my stock setup perhaps you crossed some wires or something. post some pics maybe, maybe not i dont know. grass and amigrand are both great with this stuff so i dont even know why im poking my head in :p

grass
10-18-2002, 09:35 PM
hehe i'm finally metioned in a post hehe

(sorry i'm so easily amused)

schizm99
10-19-2002, 02:05 AM
It doesn't go quite as loud as it did before! I have installed the pioneer HU run the amp wire hooked the amp and sub! It pounds! I have 2 wires left in the dash a (blue) and an (orange). I believe to be to the small stock amp. One being the power the (blue) and one being the remote (orange) does anyone have a schematic or know if the amp can take the high current?

GTkid
10-21-2002, 04:52 PM
all i can think is that you have some EQ settings messed up, and you prolly hooked the HU up wrong because those colors dont sound right even though i cant remember what colors i didnt use. if you had the monsoon system i think that is the one with the amp, dont use it. its sole purpose was to drive the 2'nd voice coil in the 6x9's

side note: yea grass the ground was the prob. thanx :thumbs:

sundevilkid
10-23-2002, 06:58 PM
If it works, you probably have it hooked up correctly. First off, the amp in any deck pretty much sucks, especially cheap ones (not yours imparticularly). Amp quality is very important and that usually comes with a price. So i would get a small (if money is tight) pioneer or sony amp, or go larger with a alpine or x-tant. By size i mean quality. It's not wattage you need for the small speakers. 50 to 75 watts in a good amp would be perfect for most cars. You could get an alpine 30 to 50 watt amp for a couple hundred bucks and it would sound stellar. Keep in mind that you would want to cut anything below 150 hz out for the smaller speakers. They cannot handle that below that freq at high dB. This is where you get your distortion. Keep in mind anything can be played loud if it is done correctly. If money is real tight like right now for most of us, get a cheap eq w/ a x-over. You could jam all night!

fschambe
04-07-2003, 09:37 AM
Here's the wiring for 2000 GAGT, with amplified rear speakers. Note that the power goes to the tweeters (or whatever in this application handles high end) and the power also goes to the amp, which then feeds it to the voice coil (bass driver aka woofer). The amp is either always on, or turns on when it gets input, but its only power are BATT and GND. The stock speakers have 16 ohm for treb and 4 ohm for bass.

fschambe
04-07-2003, 09:40 AM
Here's the diagram for the front including the tweeter wiring. There's no crossover, just a plain old splice. Looks like a nice set of coax's would add treble to the door. I would assume the stock tweeters have some type of filter so there's no bass being processed by them.

fschambe
04-07-2003, 09:43 AM
While ripping the schematics from alldata I decided I will include the steering wheel remote wiring. I am still trying to digest it myself.

fschambe
04-07-2003, 09:48 AM
OK, what happens on the wheel remote is: when you press a button it closes the circuit between RADIO SW Fuse 2A (guess the wheel has its own fuse) and the radio input (C1-14 - Lt Grn) each button has a different resistance.

Vintalage
04-07-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by GTkid
all i can think is that you have some EQ settings messed up, and you prolly hooked the HU up wrong because those colors dont sound right even though i cant remember what colors i didnt use. if you had the monsoon system i think that is the one with the amp, dont use it. its sole purpose was to drive the 2'nd voice coil in the 6x9's

side note: yea grass the ground was the prob. thanx :thumbs:

Wrong! The Monsoon found in 2001+ Grand Ams powers all speakers including the 6x9s. The 6x9s aren't really dual-voice coil but really coaxials with sepearte inputs for the speakers. The premium system found in '99-'00 has a 50w amp (25x2) powering only the 6x9 woofers. The head unit powers the rest of the speakers.

Premium amp: 50w total (25x2) rear woofers only
Monsoon amp: 240w total. All speakers

So what is distoring, the bass?

PACE
04-07-2003, 11:36 AM
Then why does my 03 have a factory Amp in the trunk?

MattBatt
04-07-2003, 11:54 AM
Aren't the stock speakers 8 ohms

2002GT
04-07-2003, 12:18 PM
I have the Monsoon system with the AMp... and that **** hits good in my 02..

Vintalage
04-07-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by ECAP
Then why does my 03 have a factory Amp in the trunk?

Cause you have the Monsoon. Duh!!!

Originally posted by 2002GT
I have the Monsoon system with the AMp... and that **** hits good in my 02..

Yeah, the Monsoon does have some punch to it but I want a little more punch and some deeper bass so i'm gonna get the Infinity Basslink and that to it.

PACE
04-07-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Vintalage
Wrong! The Monsoon found in 2001+ Grand Ams powers all speakers including the 6x9s. The 6x9s aren't really dual-voice coil but really coaxials with sepearte inputs for the speakers. The premium system found in '99-'00 has a 50w amp (25x2) powering only the 6x9 woofers. The head unit powers the rest of the speakers.

Premium amp: 50w total (25x2) rear woofers only
Monsoon amp: 240w total. All speakers

So what is distoring, the bass?

You said the Monsoon HU powers all the speakers....my point was that my amp powers my rears...maybe I read your post wrong....

EDIT: Sorry I DID read your post wrong.:)

sound_xtreme
04-07-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by grass
going from 4 ohm to 8 ohm is like turning the volume half down

Whats that supposed to mean? He didnt change the speakers............?:confused: If he didnt change the speakers the ohms do NOT change. Here's one reason, aftermarket cd players LIE, they say they are 45x4 or something like that but really they are usually around 10x4. now THAT is shtty. I have done a bunch of research on cd player output and have come to the conclusion, it isnt worth anything. I just bought an external 4 channel and it improved the sound by 10x's, I can crank the **** out of it and I am still running stock speakers! Just thought I would give you all my 2 cents, I have been doin the sound game just about my whole life.

MagiLLa
04-07-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by sound_xtreme
Whats that supposed to mean? He didnt change the speakers............?:confused: If he didnt change the speakers the ohms do NOT change. Here's one reason, aftermarket cd players LIE, they say they are 45x4 or something like that but really they are usually around 10x4. now THAT is shtty. I have done a bunch of research on cd player output and have come to the conclusion, it isnt worth anything. I just bought an external 4 channel and it improved the sound by 10x's, I can crank the **** out of it and I am still running stock speakers! Just thought I would give you all my 2 cents, I have been doin the sound game just about my whole life.

aren't most rated @ 20Wrms/channel. Usually RMS=1/2Peak

MattBatt
04-07-2003, 02:19 PM
The problem is that most car audio gear can get away with almost bold faced lies (darn close to them at least). The head unit power output is measured with a sine wave (easiest to reproduce probbably around 1k) with lots of voltage ( probably around 14V) and with the lowest mean (average) impedence they can function at (3.5 instead of 4 ohms). These chip ampliphiers are made to run best into a 4 ohm load and maybe less (most speakers are 4 ohms). Whereas the stock headunit is purpose built to only power certain speakers (the factory delco ones) and so is completely optimized for those speakers. I think that the delco speakers are 8 ohms.

Therefore since the factory HU is designed to preform at it's best into an 8 ohm load and the aftermarket is designed to perform at it's best into a 4 ohm load of course the aftermarked HU will not sound as good.

Well that's my $.02 (well with the length maybe it's more like $2.00) :D
If anyone would like to correct me please do.

sundevilkid
04-07-2003, 02:31 PM
RMS is not exactly 1/2 peak. In fact, if i remember correctly rms is usely about 70 -70% peak. Keep this fact in mind when figuring power output. Cheap amp's (deck amp's or external amp's) use I.C. (integrated circuits) to driver their power. I.C's produce a false sense of power! They have very low current which causes two things, the user to turn up the volume, and this increases the clipping of the music wave. Clipping is distortion!!! Very bad to speakers and ears. On the other hand, more expensive amp's use transistor outputs. This allows for high current output, MORE POWER!!! :-) and cleaner sound! So even if the deck is rated at 45 X 4 it really doesn't mean SH**!! Ratings are purely and solely for marketing purposes only!!! I hope this doesn't disappoint anybody.... Units that are rated 1000 X 1 can only produce 1000 watts for a brief second at high volumes with a lot of bass. There is a bunch more I can write about this so let me know if I can be of more help....!!!


EDIT: I may be wrong about the rms %

sound_xtreme
04-07-2003, 04:11 PM
Those are 8 ohm speakers? i thought the rears were somewhere around 4 and the fronts should be AROUND 8 each(together, the tweeter and 4x6 would produce AROUND 4 ohms) I havent really looked at the stock speakers.

70%?! I wish man. Seriously most cd player books will rate around 10-15 watts rms. I would say about 25-40% of peak is the RMS for MOST companies. That is really bad. and sundevilkid is right about clipping and such, i just posted a little something about it on aleromod. When you crank a cd player way up(or really any amp for that matter, but it is harder to do with transistor amps like he said), the cd player will try to put out more power than it can actually produce(easy way of saying it), this makes the cd player get hot, and sends out REALLY bad distortion(aka clipping) to your speakers. The speakers then in turn try to play this distortion but cannot produce the sound it is supposed to and all this makes the speakers voice coils get extremely hot. When those get hot they will either come apart on in inside or it can even melt the wires wrapped in the voice coil(trust me, it is possible, with a kicker1000 at full power trying to push 4 12's at .5 ohm the voice coils just froze up, took it apart and it was a black melted mess).

If anyone needs any help I can help also!

fschambe
04-08-2003, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by fschambe
The stock speakers have 16 ohm for treb and 4 ohm for bass.

Ohms law: 1/(1/4 + 1/16) = 3.2 Ohm for front but the rear would not apply since the amp most likely does not present a 4 ohm load.

sundevilkid
04-10-2003, 07:03 AM
The formula that was used is and easy way to find the resistance of a parallel circuit. I'm sure that everybody knows when you have TWO 4 ohm speakers in parallel, the TOTAL resistance is 2 ohm's.....Well that is easy math, try to figure out a half of (4 ohms and 16 ohms)....You can't add them and then divide by 2 because that would give 10 ohms...assuming the fingers push the correct buttons, 3.2 sounds correct. My apologies about the RMS rating...It has been a while since I have done RMS ratings!