View Full Version : Air-water intercoolers
iceman
10-30-2002, 11:33 PM
You fellas ever think about these?? Nice and small... just wondering if they could be used in an e/m or rsm application.
looks promising for tight engine bays.. this thing could even go down and sidemounted in the wheel well behind a fog or somethin...
(this one is real expensive, just an example)
http://www.actecorp.com/Productsairwaterintercooler.html
some more:
http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI/intercooler_system.pdf
http://www.merkurxr4ti.com/thesystem.html
http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI/spearco-25.jpg
http://www.rangerpowersports.com/performance/forced_induction/intercooling.shtml
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Air-Water-Intercoolers/
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0090/P_2/article.html
http://homepages.tig.com.au/~robs/Intercooler1.htm
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techt/intercooler.htm
IrateSpeed6
11-01-2002, 10:05 AM
Thanks seth, someone save this thread, because this info will be quite usefull down the road...
iceman
11-07-2002, 01:26 PM
We saw this on a TA this weekend..
http://iceman.draepi.org/atco/110202%20GA%20Meet%2012_1.jpg
iceman
11-20-2002, 10:37 AM
bump... wtf fellas?
mfuller
11-20-2002, 10:54 AM
I'm sure with the RSM setup you could mount an I/C....in fact, I thin Vortech's Power Cooler for the Honda S2000 would fit rather nicely....but the Magnacharger setup? No way, there's not any room - the only real option I see is to fabricate something similar to the stock I/C on the WRX, have it fit our lower intake manifold, and build in a hood scoop for the heat exhanger.
iceman
11-20-2002, 11:51 AM
Even with a battery relocate?
mfuller
11-20-2002, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by iceman
Even with a battery relocate?
Yup. If you look closely at a Magnacharger setup, the space between the SC outlet and the intake manifold is about as big as a Rubik's Cube...
iceman
11-20-2002, 12:21 PM
Doh... Yeah I see what you mean now. I guess this only for the RSM boys unless the e/m want to do some handywork :)
mfuller
11-20-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by iceman
Doh... Yeah I see what you mean now. I guess this only for the RSM boys unless the e/m want to do some handywork :)
I'm really curious to see what supercharger outlet/intake temps are with the RSM setup......I know that with my Magnacharger, on a 34 degree day, SC outlet temps (the IAT was mounted in the SC outlet tube) were on the low 100's(!) - and that was at idle!
iceman
11-20-2002, 12:38 PM
yeah I am thinkin about pickin up an autotap, so I'll hook it up to Rob's car when he gets the rsm kit installed
jaketuff
11-20-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by iceman
yeah I am thinkin about pickin up an autotap, so I'll hook it up to Rob's car when he gets the rsm kit installed
Yeah cool! If you don't get it maybe we could use mine, if Santy is real nice this year. Sure would be cool to see how the SC's Kits affect the cars differently... Just need to buy a laptop on the cheap now!
JOUT
iceman
11-20-2002, 01:43 PM
already got 2.. that part is covered :)
jaketuff
11-20-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by iceman
already got 2.. that part is covered :)
We will be set then... you don't know anybody looking to offload a cheap laptop? Anyhting better than a 486?
Pat
IrateSpeed6
11-20-2002, 03:20 PM
Yeah, we can definately autotap after thanksgiving... I'm currently looking into the coolers...
IrateSpeed6
11-20-2002, 03:38 PM
Looks like cost is going to be around $850-$1,250 depending on how diesel the IC is... Its about $660 for one of the IC's... figure piping and a water pump would raise it a bit... I'm going to have to e-mail them
aleroboy
11-20-2002, 07:05 PM
Wonder if there would be a way to build one in the upper manifold or somthing.
iceman
11-20-2002, 08:37 PM
it would fit right above the uim / tb area, just need a hood with a nice scoop :)
IrateSpeed6
11-21-2002, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by iceman
it would fit right above the uim / tb area, just need a hood with a nice scoop :)
... or cowl induction! :D
bszopi
11-21-2002, 11:39 AM
Rob and I were discussing this last week. I know on Tom Wright's Lumina, he fabricated a cooling system to go in the runners. He had an ice tank in front of the radiator, and lines plumbed from there to the plenum. This allowed for cold water to flow from the ice tank and pass around the runners, thus keeping the plenum cool. When I saw it, he had just driven ~2.5 hrs in ~90º weather. The plenum was cool to the touch. Hell, it was cooler than mine usually is after only about 5 minutes of idling!! I have looked into doing a similar setup, but just don't have the time or resources right now.
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 06:44 AM
I have some info on this subject from a book, but the scans are huge. I can make them .PDF's but I have no clue on how to post them or put them on a webpage. Any help getting them posted would be kewl.
Irate why don't you use a Air-Air FMIC. It could be cheaper and definitly looks awsome.
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 12:00 PM
space restrictions, air-air are much bigger because the heat transfer ratio for air to air (heat being transferred through aluminum and then cooled by moving air to lower the charge temperature of the air in the intercooler) is 14 times less that of the heat transfer ratio between air to water. So a smaller surface area is required with the air to water intercooler which is a bonus for us being as our bays with a supercharger installed are quite cramped. Hope this helps.
Still looking to post the scans of those pages.
bszopi
11-22-2002, 12:13 PM
Hey, next time you see me online, hit me up, cause I can post those pics for you. I can probably resize them as well so that they are smaller, but still able to be read.
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 12:26 PM
you have a PM:thumbs:
bszopi
11-22-2002, 12:48 PM
Next time I am home (tomorrow morning?? :confused: ) I'll get them up on my site and post a link so that everyone can check them out.
Originally posted by GTManiac
space restrictions, air-air are much bigger because the heat transfer ratio for air to air (heat being transferred through aluminum and then cooled by moving air to lower the charge temperature of the air in the intercooler) is 14 times less that of the heat transfer ratio between air to water. So a smaller surface area is required with the air to water intercooler which is a bonus for us being as our bays with a supercharger installed are quite cramped. Hope this helps.
Still looking to post the scans of those pages.
You can get an Air-air to fit. I did ;)
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Doug
You can get an Air-air to fit. I did ;)
BUT is it as efficient as air to water? ;)
Originally posted by GTManiac
BUT is it as efficient as air to water? ;)
It can be. Depends on how much you want to spend on a ic.
And you loose effeiciency as the water temps go up.
http://www.panhandleperformance.com/intercooler/intercooler2.html
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Doug
It can be. Depends on how much you want to spend on a ic.
And you loose effeiciency as the water temps go up.
http://www.panhandleperformance.com/intercooler/intercooler2.html
biased opinions, they're saying 100% efficiency??? BS and impossible. Either way I'm not gonna argue. Agreed to disagree. My info is from a book that's not selling a product, but rather explaining them.
No they do not sell intercoolers. They arn't pushing any products here. I agree with the 100% comment but thats just an article not advertisement.
GTManiac
11-22-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Doug
No they do not sell intercoolers. They arn't pushing any products here. I agree with the 100% comment but thats just an article not advertisement.
then my bad for assuming. Read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. It's one of the best reads for forced induction I have ever read. It has equations and mathematical proof of how things work and why they're better. That site didn't have any proof for their numbers so I found it to be unsubstantial.
I bought it about a few days ago but haven't have time to start reading it yet. Been pulling the tranny and changing the clutch, installing a new turbo on my friends Rx7. Can't wait to read it though. :)
bszopi
11-23-2002, 09:51 AM
Here you guys go....
http://www.60degreev6.com/hlperf/pdfdocs/
thats good info right there.
but even in there they only reccomend if for a full out drag car. Because once water temperatures rise to the point where it is basically useless. It only has that great efficiency when you put things like ice in your resevoir(sp) but when it melt what is cooling the "water" air.
aleroboy
11-23-2002, 10:15 PM
Today I cut open the bottom of a 3400 plenum.
tomorrow I'll be looking at routing copper tubing inside the plenum.
Monday I'll hopfully be getting it welded back up.
the lines will feed out to a cool can filled with dry ice.
I'm looking for a small pump now to run on it.
I'm also getting a manifold air temp sensor from auto meter for testing.
If results are positive I may offer the kit to those who are interested.
bszopi
11-23-2002, 10:48 PM
Did you get ahold of Tom? Oh, and where are the pics?!?! Heheh....
Does sound interesting though, and I'd be interested in seeing how you have everything run. I think something like this would really help keep the air temps down going into the cylinders.
aleroboy
11-24-2002, 03:09 AM
I'll try to get my friend over with the digi cam
No I didnt get ahold of him.
Just felt creative today and deceided to tear into it.
I was thinking we could also use a spacer like you made for between the upper and lower but make it connect both sides
like a big heat sink. then plumb that with the copper tube.
not sure how well it would work but it should lower temps of the upper manifold.
btw I hope I didn't sound like a **** in this thread. I just like to argue. Good luck with your IC :)
aleroboy
11-24-2002, 11:16 PM
Here is a pic of my hack job.
later that day I also played arroudn with the copper tubing to do inside. The tubing looks gehto but it should work.
tomorrow Ill be doing port work on it then installing the tubing.
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