Autotap Results....Please Staomebody Review [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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dxtreme_85
09-10-2004, 11:50 PM
I've attached a link to my autotap results from my visit to the track tonight. I was hoping somebody could review some things for me and see if they can figure out why my car is running so crappy. Seems like as soon as the car warms up...it just runs for crap. I just got this thing in the mail today, so I really don't know how to use it too well yet. If an experienced person could maybe review these for me...that would be great.

Thanks,
Terry

dxtreme_85
09-11-2004, 12:09 AM
Ok..that isn't working...PM me and I will email them to you...

Please...I need an "expert" to check these over for me...and see if they can locate why my car is slow.....

dxtreme_85
09-11-2004, 10:55 PM
Alright..since I didn't get a response...I decided to review these a bit closer myself....even though I'm still not sure what I'm looking for.

Here is what I have:

Knock Retard/Engine Speed----------Run #----------Ignition Timing Advance/Engine Speed
8.3/4037----------1----------33/2112
6.3/3352----------2--------37.5/1952
10.1/4151---------3----------46/1758
9.8/3882----------4----------44/1513


Any other parameters you wanna know...and I'll get them. Why am I producing this much knock when I have brand new plugs, wires, and coil packs. And they aren't cheap parts either...I went with some of the very best....(MSD/NGK)

atc3434
09-12-2004, 12:21 PM
What octane are you running? I know some will tell you that running higher octane is nothing more than a placebo effect, but I beg to differ. I know with that much KR its defintely killing your power, and I'd bet it the gas, and hot temps. You didn't end up with plugs in the wrong heatrange, did ya? That could defintely be a source of pre-ignition. I'd like to see the full tap, I'll PM my addy. I'm no expert, but I've played around with the fuel thing for a while, and it defintely relates to performance, just like air temperature. How hot out was it, BTW?

dxtreme_85
09-12-2004, 04:22 PM
Just send you an email....just to add:

The temp was about 75-80 outside and I was running a mixture of about 1 gallon 89 octane to 3 gallons 93 octane...both from Sunoco. I also believe that higher octane helps with KR. So yeah...take a look at them. I tried to post them on here...but I couldn't get them hosted for people to download at will. I hope you can get more out of them than I did. And hopefully, you can get my car running the times I was hoping to be at at this stage in the game.

I did run a 15.6 at the fasted MPH that I have run in the car, which means that the power was there (since horsepower is indicitive of MPH and not ET)...but that was after I let the car cool down for about an hour and a half, and I pushed it through the lanes so that it would stay cool. I also ran about 28 lbs of pressure in my "cheater" slicks (RSA's mounted on a set of rims from an old GP).

Blackrider
09-12-2004, 04:51 PM
Welcome to the knock battle

First thing you need to figure out, Is it Flase or true knock, The way I determand that was using a bit of race gas, Running of 111 mixed 50 50 with 92 I ran zero knock. but without i ran 6-8 Degrees in third

atc3434
09-12-2004, 06:30 PM
Dude, I think I didn't get the e-mail,. its not there as of 8:20pm. However, what Balckrider said! Run some very high octane and see if you lose all your KR. Then its defintely real knock. If you've still got knock, your sensor may be picking up on other noise that it thinks is spark knock. I'm curious, what speed does a GT get into third? Second? I know the gears are different between the GT and SE, but I'm curious as to how much different they are.

dxtreme_85
09-12-2004, 07:49 PM
ATC:

Sorry...just got home and realized that Outlook had never sent the message....POS!!! I just resent it and then forwarded it to Blackrider, too. BTW, GT snaps into third at about 78 mph or so. Here is my question....is running high octane gonna burn up anything in the cylinders....I have heard that too high of an octane can F*** stuff up.

Thanks guys...Hope I can get this sh*t figured out

atc3434
09-12-2004, 09:56 PM
Higher octane is more stable, it acutally burns slower. Thats why its less likely to ignite before it should. TOO much octane is a bad thing, but you can run the best pump gas all the time without worries, and could even dump a bottle of octane boost and still be ok.

Geez, even the GT's are geared to high. My SE is into second at around 47mph, and into third at about 82. Way to high. With a better final drive ratio, the GA would be a ton quicker, IMO.

atc3434
09-13-2004, 07:55 PM
Alright dude, I looked over a few of the passes you made on the spreadsheet, and didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary. Warm temps defintely make for more knock retard, thats for sure. If theres any way to get the car cooler before the run, do it. I'm not sure how much of a difference heating the tires for a good launch makes to you, but to me I can launch just fine without lighting them up, I usually just go around the water box and avoid building any extra heat I don't have to. I also run with my headlight out on the drivers side to pull in as much fresh, cooler air as possible into my CAI. Can't hurt.

One thing you said in your e-mail ...

I have a 7" K&N cone filter coming off of the downpipe in the fenderwell-there is no resonator on the intake, and there is also a K&N drop in inside the air box.

Why two filters. Certainly that will restrict air a tad. If your filtering it before the airbox, you don't need to filter it again. Best bet would be a CAI, that'll keep the air cooler... other than that, everything looked normal, just lots of KR, as a lot of cars see. MORE OCTANE. People will tell you it doesn't matter, well, maybe they don't have an KR (which I HIGHLY doubt) but you do, and octane will help that. Unless of course its false, which you'll know if you run some really good gas and still get KR. Good luck![/

iceman
09-13-2004, 08:14 PM
ahhhh knock retard!!! my favorite :( search for "knock retard" you'll find a thread I posted with a bunch of data too, yours is probably similar to mine. KR absolutely kills power. you'll have to see if it is false or real, that thread is great plus tehre are plenty of links from google if you look for troubleshooting false knock.

dxtreme_85
09-13-2004, 09:26 PM
Yeah Seth, I did read the thread...like three times actually...just wanted to post up my runs to see if there is anything else that appears different. The reason I put that cone on there was b/c I remember when I had my Doc speed CAI on, the filter fell off one day, and the sound that the car made was different, put it back on and that low end grunt and whistle came back, so I went ahead and attached the filter on there. It was just taking up space in my garage anyways.

One thing I just found out, apparently the gas that was in the gas can here at home that I put in my car might not have been 93. Usually, we siphon gas out of my dads 69' Plymouth Sport Sattellite 383 Hi-pro which runs on 93. But I have a feeling he actually filled the can up w/ 87 when he was at the pump, which means I was running mostly 87 octane, which is most likely gonna account for that amount of knock. Might take the car out and do some Autotap runs once I get the car low on gas and can fill it up with 93 to see.

dxtreme_85
09-13-2004, 09:32 PM
Okay...for anybody who has been reading this....if you want...I got the files zipped up and attached to the first post in this thread if you want to look at the spreadsheets

dxtreme_85
09-20-2004, 09:56 PM
Ok...so I got some new gas. I ran 93 from a different gas station. I am getting on average about 1.5 degrees of KR now. There was a point when I got about 5 degrees, but it was right when I stomped on the gas pedal and broke the tires loose at a stop sign, so maybe something shook and caused the knock sensor to go off??? anyways....it appears that my KR is doing a little better. It was pretty cold tonight compared to past nights...about 55 degrees....could this affect KR at all???

atc3434
09-20-2004, 11:29 PM
Colder temps will equal colder air going into the engine, which will help with KR. Compared to the KR you were seeing before, I'd say the good gas is defintely making a difference. And still people think there is no difference performance wise between 87 and 93. Well, maybe if you didn't have any knock to begin with, but is GM engine, it will spark knock on cheap gas! In another discussion, it was said that every degree of timing is worth anywhere from 1 to 3 hp. So, if you get 9 degree's of KR, which is nine less degrees of timing, your losing anywhere from 9 to 27hp. Probably between 15 and 20 horse. That is a seat of the pants difference. I'm sure you noticed. ;)

dxtreme_85
09-21-2004, 01:53 PM
Yeah...the car did feel a bit more "snappy" than it has in past weeks. I was running 93 Sunoco for a while, and never saw an improvement at the track. This time, I'm running w/ 93 from Krogers (Grocery Store that sells gas). This was my second tankful, so that the computer would recalibrate the settings for the better gas. I had switched back to 87 Sunoco early summer when I realized that it wasn't doing anything for performance. Maybe I'll do better running on 93 Kroger gas....we'll see i guess....

99REDGAGT
09-22-2004, 12:02 PM
Before I got my 99GA I had a 93 Probe GT with the 2.5ltr V6. I know that in that car you definitly could tell a difference between 87 and 93 octane! I reved smoother and had quicker launches. This engine is the same you would find in an MX6 or a 626. All three of these cars were made at the same assembly plant.

As for my GA, my last tank was 93octane from Murphy Oil, I get it at the local Wal-Mart. There was definitly a difference in performance between the 93 and 87. :metal: