How do i prevent the engine from starting [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Caveman
09-15-2004, 02:52 PM
I'm going to attempt a power steering system flush and i need to be able to use the starter to turn the engine over but i don't want the engine to start. Is there a specific relay that i can pull that will disable the ignition? Or maybe even something simpler than that perhaps.

mcgrady
09-15-2004, 03:21 PM
Pull the fuse for the fuel pump.

Molson
09-15-2004, 06:02 PM
pull the fuse(s) for the coil(s)

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:08 PM
Pull the 12volt source off of the coil pack, its a two wire connector on the coil pack one wire should be pink with a black tracer if I recall. If its not pink with a black tracer just pull the connection with two wires.

Caveman
09-15-2004, 06:12 PM
A couple of questions. First I probably should have stated that this car has the 2.4L (quad four) engine.

1st question: After pulling the fuse shoud i start the car to let the fuel from the fuel pump to the injectors dissipate?

2nd question: Is the fuse located under the hood or in the fuse panel on the driver side of the dash board?

Additional concern: Don't these cars have what is refered to as a "closed" fuel injection system which will require a painstaking procedure to remove air from the system that may be introduced by running the car with the fuel pump shut off?

Just a thought. I don't want to cause more problems than i'm trying to solve.

mcgrady
09-15-2004, 06:16 PM
When you put a new fuel pump in or have run out of gas there is no "procedure" needed to get the car going again.

Not to disagree with the other guys but if you disconnect the coils, then all that unburned fuel from cranking is going to seep down into the engine oil.

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:17 PM
Caveman, the simple anser is mine, which is pull the 12volt source off of the coil pack.

Caveman
09-15-2004, 06:18 PM
I will investigate the coil fuse(s)/power source tommorow and reply with my findings.

Thanks/ Thanks in advance for the info.

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:18 PM
Mcgrady - the fuel injectors only prime for a quick second, if they do not detect ignition they do not continue to spray.

Caveman
09-15-2004, 06:26 PM
the safest answer may be to use both approaches. My only concern about the fuel pump is: I used to own a 2000 TA also, and a major "no, no" was to cut off the fuel supply to the injectors. I didn't really know if that was the case for this engine too. I'll take a look under the hood when the sun comes up. I don't mind disabling many systems if the end result is best.

mcgrady
09-15-2004, 06:26 PM
Could that have been an improvement made in later model years? We replaced the pump in a 99 GA SE a few months back and the oil was very contaminated from the woman trying to start the car over and over again. That was a V6 though, 4 cyl different?

The pump was only putting out 4-5psi, maybe that was enough for a small amount of combustion making the PCM think the car was running?

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:29 PM
The fuel primes for a quick second and shuts off if it does not detect igniton on all gm models that have the ignition controlled by the pcm.

It may have fouled her oil, if she repeated attempted to start it, and I do mean repeatedly.

We run compression tests and cylinder leakage tests with this method and encounter no problems.

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:33 PM
If the pump was running 4-5 psi and had some flow the pcm would be trying to ignite it. The car would probably run, but run poorly. Correct?

Caveman
09-15-2004, 06:41 PM
The method that i'm going to use to flush the power steering system will require me to engage the starting system multiple times. How many times, i just don't know. If this works i'll post a "how to" with pictures. The price of getting the power steering system flushed at a shop seems excessive. If what i'm thinking is correct it shouldn't be that difficult and with minimal cost (in theory). Who knows? If the reminants of a hurricane aren't parked over my head this weekend i should have some answers. Ideas on the current scenario are of course welcome.

abusedgt97
09-15-2004, 06:43 PM
The pump was only putting out 4-5psi, maybe that was enough for a small amount of combustion making the PCM think the car was running?

So your saying the car was not running but the pcm thought it was because it was getting fuel?

No, the car will shut off the fuel injectors if there is no spark, therefore the car would not think its running and not keep the injectors running.

Blackrider
09-16-2004, 06:51 AM
Umm Holing down the gas Peddle Disables Ignition and prevents the engine from starting. No need to pull fuses.

schizm99
09-16-2004, 07:21 AM
Pull the ECM fuse out of the dash panel on the drivers side. The car will turn over but it will not start..

mcgrady
09-16-2004, 01:38 PM
If the pump was running 4-5 psi and had some flow the pcm would be trying to ignite it. The car would probably run, but run poorly. Correct?

It would not actually run but it would act like it was going to start during the first 2-3 seconds of cranking.

2002AmSE
09-17-2004, 05:08 PM
Umm Holing down the gas Peddle Disables Ignition and prevents the engine from starting. No need to pull fuses.


Uhh, sorry to say your wrong, but mine 2002 does start with the gas pedal all the way down. I did that starting it a few times, but right when it started i would let go so it wouldnt rev high at all, but it does start.

Blackrider
09-18-2004, 11:28 AM
Uhh, sorry to say your wrong, but mine 2002 does start with the gas pedal all the way down. I did that starting it a few times, but right when it started i would let go so it wouldnt rev high at all, but it does start.
UMMMM Sorry to say I dont have a 2002, I was offering advice lose the attitude.

Caveman
09-21-2004, 07:27 PM
OK, Process done!

What I did.

I pulled the fuse labled PCM Ing. (#41 i think) located in the realy/fuse center in the engine compartment on the driver side. I should probably say that this car is a 1999 SE model with the 2.4L 4 cyl. (quad 4). That fuse sucessfully prevented the car from starting. The next time i flust the power steering system i probably won't disable the ignition due to the fact that the power steering system didn't seem to pull fluid out of the resivouir (sp?) until the wheel was turned. I kinda thought it wouldn't but i didn't know. As far as fuel in the oil. I did the age old test of sniffing the engine oil dipstick (yes i really do like cars) and the sniff test after the flush and then a test after the road test did not obviously indicate gas in the oil. I will post a "How To" for those interested in doing there own power steering flush, however, the pics will be after the fact due to a camera battery oversite at the time of the procedure.

Once again i thank everyone for their imput.

95-GT
09-21-2004, 07:29 PM
i would have just pulled the spark plugs. lol

Caveman
09-21-2004, 07:36 PM
That was my first idea. But if you haven't looked at these engines, without dissassembling the top half of the engine, try to find the spark plugs.

mcgrady
09-22-2004, 04:20 AM
Caveman, the plugs in the twincam engine are not hard to change at all. Much less work than your power steering flush actually!

Caveman
09-22-2004, 06:52 PM
Thats good to hear. The power steering flush was supprisingly easy. In truth I don't know much about these engines and i don't have a manual for the car. I know the spark plugs aren't visible from the exterior of the engine. This engine is quite different from the engines i'm used to messing with. Maybe that is a good thing. :)