Fuel Injector Cleaners [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Red Cougar
10-01-2004, 11:59 AM
Recently I have noticed that my GAGT has a slight hesitation in acceleration and a bad idle. I did a compression test and all of the cylinders have approx
150pds of pressure, except one has 120pds. The mechanic told me not to worry about this and that it normal...only to worry if it get below 100pds. I would like to clean the fuel injectors with a over the counter system but don't know of any good ones...not the bottled ones but the ones you hook up tio the fuel rail line. Maybe I should just get it done at Pep Boys or something? There are not any codes in the PCM, which they also double checked.

Any suggestions?

JetMtx
10-01-2004, 03:25 PM
I'm interested in this as well. If anyone has a good quasi cheap canister hook-up system please post it here. All I've come across are the professional systems that cost in the thousands of dollars.

Red Cougar
10-04-2004, 08:44 AM
Has anyone ever cleaned their fuel injectors themselves by removing them? Is the upper manifold hard to remove?

tenspeed
10-04-2004, 12:47 PM
Since you have done a compression test, I assume your plugs are good.

Last summer I changed the gas tank and fuel filter on my '96 Olds Achieva. Soon after I had a rough idle and assumed a clogged injector because of the recent work. Spent a lot of time removing the injectors, cleaning the fuel rail, changing the filter again. Finally I changed the air filter and plugs and everything smoothed out.

My advice to anyone with a bad idle or hesitation is to do the easy stuff first. It can't hurt and it's a lot better than wasting time on the wrong solution.

I've always heard that the compression should be within 10 PSI of each other.

JetMtx
10-07-2004, 03:07 AM
Well, I've got no hesitation. My idle is nice and smooth. I've only got 15,000mi. on my GAGT. But, regardless, I am interested in keeping those injectors clean and operating. I currently use in the tank products, but would like to run a canister periodically to keep things really clean in there. Preventative Maintenance.
Anywho, anybody have any suggestions where to buy a cheap canister system setup?

gagt88
01-21-2006, 07:37 AM
i have also read that some of the tank cleaners dont really do anything too... so im guess the only way to really find out is eaither trail and error or asking people who have tried them. personly ive tried valveoline that didnt really do anything. im currently running lucas fuel system treatment

slowbird
01-21-2006, 08:31 AM
Run a couple tanks of 94 octane...that'll clean out the majority of the fuel system.

HiFiCarGuy
01-21-2006, 08:57 AM
Run a couple tanks of 94 octane...that'll clean out the majority of the fuel system.

Will that really work? I've been trying stuff like crazy (not that) and if that'll do the trick, It'll be worth a few extra dollars. BTW, where did this year old thread come from? lol

99GAGTX
01-21-2006, 07:24 PM
I know it's not as thorough a cleaning as tearing the fuel system down and cleaning it properly. But I noticed recently, today actually, that Sunoco 94 does a decent job with rough idling. With the crazy weather we've been having in the metro Detroit area lately (lots of rain, then sleet, temps varying from low 30's to mid 50 degrees from one day to the next), I noticed a lot of rough idling, hard starts/stalling. I finally broke down this morning and filled up with Sunoco 94, and it's been running better so far. But it cost me $1.04 per litre. Which very roughly converts to about $4.00 per gallon.

Yeah... when it comes to gas prices, Canadians take it up the ***.

rwillman
01-22-2006, 08:48 AM
When I was getting a horrible misfire due to plugged injectors I ran a can of BG 44k through my GA and it cleared up immediately. I know this isn't one that you hook up to the rail system but I found it actually worked as compared to another rail system I tried and it was a lot cheaper. I got mine at the dealer for around 30 bucks.

By the way after a few times of having my injectors plugged up I learned that it was caused by me running the ethanol blend in a car that had most likely had straight unleaded all its life and the alcohol knocked some rust and stuff loose into the fuel line. I've ran straight unleaded since and haven't had a problem.

slowbird
01-22-2006, 09:28 AM
I thought all gas (at least in Canada) contains Ethanol.

digitalballz
01-22-2006, 10:39 AM
where can you get 94 octane??? Not around here.

traingeek087
01-22-2006, 12:23 PM
this has been a large hot topic with me also, i put some in one night because of rough idle (STP inector cleaner 2.94 at wal-mart) and it cleaned it up. when i filled up with now bad gas it was doing it so i used some "sea foam" - useless product. so i went back and tried the STP stuff again and it worked. I really do believe the stuff works since it has got them to fire nicely twice now. great product. for 2.94 try it out.

slowbird
01-22-2006, 12:33 PM
where can you get 94 octane??? Not around here.

Sunoco Gas stations.
Good stuff.


Ummm...I heard nothing but good stuff from Seafoam.

But if you have to run high octane gas, or Injector cleaner in every tank for the car to run properly, I'd just bite the bullit and find the permanent solution.

digitalballz
01-22-2006, 03:00 PM
sunoco only has 93 octane

slowbird
01-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Maybe in the states.

But here we have Ultra 94 at Sunoco gas stations

SikMindz
01-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Try SeaFoam. I'm back up to 17-20 MPG city driving after having the car for 5 years (up from 13-16 MPG last year)

iceman
01-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Sunoco 94 is available depending on what state you are in.. Seafoam is aight, the only good way IMO to get your injectors cleaned is to hook that canister up to the fuel rail and run the car off it.. believe you can get them at napa

DirtyTexas070
01-22-2006, 04:02 PM
noob question... whats this canister i keep reading about?

lvemy3100
01-22-2006, 04:44 PM
you can hook up either "Sea Foam" or "Lucas fuel injector cleaner" though a vaccum line and that works just as well as the canister thing most times this is according to most of the mechanics i know as well as my own personal experience.
check this about a cheap fix for the compression as well http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57053&highlight=sea+foam
and just want to clear this up about the thread i linked to.... it is not called lucas engine restorer it is just called RESTORE.

99GAGTX
01-22-2006, 05:27 PM
I thought all gas (at least in Canada) contains Ethanol.

I believe Canadian law says that all automobile gasoline must contain ethanol.

Sunoco puts labels on all their pumps saying that the gas contains "up to 10% ethanol". Or at least they label all their pumps here in Windsor. Maybe to give US tourists a heads-up?

Back on topic... when I fill up with standard 87 octane, the GA runs okay with limited piston slap. But after a few fill ups with 87 in winter weather, I get rough idling, hard starts/stalling. Filling up with 94 octane takes care of the problem for me, but I find that I get more piston slap; which sounds like crap.

digitalballz
01-22-2006, 05:53 PM
I thought i read somewhere that sunoco got rid of all 94 octane in the states. I know around here all you can get is 93.

99GAGTX
01-22-2006, 06:17 PM
Here's some info from Sunoco's US website. Maybe this will clear things up a little.

Sunoco sells four grades of gasoline – five in the MidAmerica market – compared to the "standard" offering of three grades. In addition to Regular (87 octane), Plus (89 octane) and Super (93 octane), Sunoco markets Ultra® 94 – the highest octane available at any consumer pump – throughout its 21-state marketing territory. An 86-octane Economy grade is also available in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, West Virginia and Kentucky.

I checked both of Sunoco's websites (US and Canada), the Canadian site states that all of their gasolines contain ethanol. The US site makes no mention of this. It's possible that the two countries are getting different fuels from the same company.

Panacea
01-22-2006, 06:33 PM
I wish Ethenol was mandatory here. It contains more alcohol; therefore, helping clean out your fuel system.

If you switch to strictly ethenol blend, you want to make sure you change your fuel filter first.

eBandit
01-22-2006, 07:34 PM
Yep, Sunoco has 94 here in Ohio just as 99GAGTX's post states, we have 86-94.

digitalballz
01-22-2006, 07:51 PM
no kidding. guess you do learn something everyday

Mike Jung
01-22-2006, 08:30 PM
I believe Canadian law says that all automobile gasoline must contain ethanol...
Not yet.

There is a proposal in the future to mandate it.
... when I fill up with standard 87 octane, the GA runs okay with limited piston slap. But after a few fill ups with 87 in winter weather, I get rough idling, hard starts/stalling. Filling up with 94 octane takes care of the problem for me, but I find that I get more piston slap; which sounds like crap
See: About 87 vs. 89 Octane Gasoline ? (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10606)

Infernall
01-23-2006, 12:11 PM
Hey, another Windsor local!

I've got a 2001 GE SE, and it's been acting sluggish lately. I went to Mr. Lube last year and had their Injector cleaning canister service, gained a lot of performance when I went there. Costs $80 or so, and the effects last a few months.

Its been about 7 months, and my performance is higher than before the service, but it seems my car has days where it drives much smoother than others.

I've been using the normal bottle of injector cleaner in the gas tank, but I haven't noticed any results.

Would you recommend I try a few tanks of Ultra 94? (I live very close to the Sunoco on the corner of College and Campbell)

Last year, I replaced spark plugs, plug wires, coil packs, and fuel filter. Year before, head gasket leak fixed, lower intake manifold leak fixed, (Leaks were under 3rd party warrenty)...


Here's some info from Sunoco's US website. Maybe this will clear things up a little.

Sunoco sells four grades of gasoline – five in the MidAmerica market – compared to the "standard" offering of three grades. In addition to Regular (87 octane), Plus (89 octane) and Super (93 octane), Sunoco markets Ultra® 94 – the highest octane available at any consumer pump – throughout its 21-state marketing territory. An 86-octane Economy grade is also available in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, West Virginia and Kentucky.

I checked both of Sunoco's websites (US and Canada), the Canadian site states that all of their gasolines contain ethanol. The US site makes no mention of this. It's possible that the two countries are getting different fuels from the same company.

slowbird
01-23-2006, 12:56 PM
A few tanks of 94 won't hurt anything (except your wallet) but it'll be good for the car.

99GAGTX
01-23-2006, 06:52 PM
Hey Infernall!
I've seen the thread that Mike Jung referred to before. A lot of people are noticing the rough idle and stalling with 87 octane. But it's looking like it could be something the ethanol is causing. The last couple times I filled up with 87, it was at Esso. Didn't really look to see if they were adding ethanol or not. But as soon as I filled up with 94, it cleared up. Even though 94 contains ethanol also. Kind of an expensive fix in the long run at $1.00+ per litre.

I tried the bottles of gas additives, and didn't notice much results either. Never had the fuel rail thing done though, might give it a try.

IMO the unusual weather we've had in the southern Ontario / metro Detroit area so far this winter has to have something to do with it. We should be knee deep in snow by now. Not walking in cold november rain. (how many of you now have the tune playing in your head?).
:D :violin

Mike Jung
01-23-2006, 07:20 PM
It could be also 'water' from condensation in your gas tank at this time of the year.

Like a guy at work that uses Petro-Can gasoline exclusively, was experiencing stuttering in his Mazda 3 Sport (1.5 years old).
He also parks it in a heated indoor parking garage; which would make condensation more of a issue.

Try a bottle that contains Isopropyl Alcohol gas line anti-freeze & water remover.

I know the 1st year/winter that I had my GA, my car stuttered after coming back from Montreal when it was -30°C/-22°F.
When I was using exclusively Esso non-ethanol blended gasoline.
Used a bottle of IPA gas line anti-freeze/water remover, & the car ran smooth after that.

...IMO the unusual weather we've had in the southern Ontario / metro Detroit area so far this winter has to have something to do with it. We should be knee deep in snow by now. Not walking in cold november rain. (how many of you now have the tune playing in your head?).
:D :violin
I hear you, but I'm not really complaining.

After buying my Mom's ride - a Sunfire GT; Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSi (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58686) winter tires.

99GAGTX
01-23-2006, 08:03 PM
Yeah, I kinda figured that about the condensation.
BTW...the violin emoticon wasn't meant as a complaint. I just didn't see any other musical icons at the time, and went with that. Believe me, I'm not complaining about the lack of snow. Shoveling snow bites!

Panacea
01-23-2006, 10:49 PM
The only negative thing that ethanol would be doing to hurt performance is loosen dirt that gets clogged somewhere in the fuel system...

Here's some facts about Ethanol...

Will adding a gas line anti-freeze cause problems?

Gas line anti-freezes are made from ethanol, methanol or isopropyl alcohol to absorb water in the fuel and keep it from freezing. That one little bottle of gas line anti-freeze is about 0.3% of the volume of a full gas tank. With a 10% ethanol blended fuel, it's 10% so it will absorb a lot more water and you'll never have to worry about a frozen fuel line. Now you don't have to worry about buying it, keeping it in the trunk and adding it to the tank when you fill up.

What about my valves?

Not to worry, ethanol burns cooler than straight gasoline helping to keep the valves cool. This is the main reason that high powered racing engines burn straight alcohol.

Why do some mechanics say not to use ethanol?

A mechanic who says not to use ethanol does not have correct information. There is very little information available for mechanics on fuel formulation, so when there appears to be a fuel-related problem with an engine, some mechanics will immediately ask if ethanol has been used. The only reason ethanol is suspected is that in many states it is the only gasoline component other than lead that has an identifying label. In North Dakota, New Mexico, and Idaho, ethanol proponents have offered a $100 reward to any customer who can document damage from ethanol to his or her car, and so far no one has ever collected.

Okay, what about my gas milage?

At the very worst it will be very slight. Ethanol contains 97% of the energy that pure gasoline has. But because the combustion efficiency is increased, the slight reduction in energy content is compensated for. Most users will not notice the decrease, if any, and many people have reported an increase in fuel milage.

from Ethanol as a Fuel (http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/aa102100a_2.htm)



Q:

Is ethanol good for my car?
A:

Yes! Gasoline enriched with ethanol performs in much the same way that regular gasoline does, and actually surpasses regular gasoline in key performance categories. All auto manufacturers who sell cars in the United States approve fuels enriched with up to 10 percent ethanol — and many recommend it for its clean-burning benefits.

Q:

How does ethanol affect gas mileage?
A:

While there are many variables that affect fuel economy (weather, car condition, road grade, tire pressure, air conditioner use, etc.), studies indicate that fuel economy with ethanol-enriched fuels may decrease by about 2 percent in fuel-injected cars. So cars that average 30 MPG on the highway would average about 29.4 with ethanol-enriched fuel. This is only a slight variance that probably won’t be noticed by the average driver.

It’s big news: ethanol is fueling the legendary IndyCar® Series! Like the cars themselves, the transition will be quick: in the 2006 season, race cars will begin the changeover by using a 10 percent ethanol blend. Then in 2007, it’s 100 percent ethanol for 100 percent of the cars!



from Driving Ethanol (http://www.drivingethanol.org/aspx/why_ethanol/faq.aspx)

Panacea
01-23-2006, 10:52 PM
And then the fact sheet from Driving Ethanol (http://www.drivingethanol.org/aspx/why_ethanol/factsheet.aspx)

why ethanol? » FACT SHEET
just the facts.
Environment

Ethanol is a clean-burning, renewable fuel
Ethanol helps reduce air and groundwater pollution
Ethanol is biodegradable
10% ethanol blends reduce carbon monoxide better than any other reformulated gasoline — by as much as 30%
Ethanol-enriched fuel shows a 35 – 46% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions

Performance

Today’s cars are built to run on fuel enriched with up to 10% ethanol
All auto manufacturers who sell cars in the United States approve fuels enriched with up to 10% ethanol
Gasoline enriched with ethanol burns at a cooler temperature than straight gasoline
Ethanol-enriched fuel contains more oxygen — so it burns cleaner
Blending gasoline with 10% ethanol typically increases the octane rating by 2.5 numbers or more

American Made

Ethanol is blended in about 30% of the nation’s gasoline
Ethanol is made from crops grown in America
Today there are more than 88 ethanol plants across the country
Ethanol reduces the need to import 128,000 barrels of oil a day
Last year, the United States produced over 3.4 billion gallons of ethanol
The U.S. ethanol industry supported the creation of nearly 147,000 jobs in all sectors of the economy in 2004

Boosting performance

Ethanol-gasoline blends (E-10 is the most common in the United States) meet or exceed all performance standards for U.S. vehicles, including:

Heat Energy: The heat energy of all gasoline-based motor fuel varies somewhat by formulation, region and time of year. Ethanol burns slightly cooler than straight gasoline: on average, a gallon of 10% ethanol-enriched gasoline contains about 112,000 BTUs of heat energy, compared to 114,000 BTUs for straight gasoline. Cooler combustion temperatures contribute to increased engine longevity.

Volatility/Vapor Pressure: Ethanol-enriched gasoline meets all applicable vapor-pressure standards, as regulated by the U.S.

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Octane: Adding 10% ethanol to regular unleaded gas typically increases the octane rating from 87 to 89.5 or higher. This boost can reduce knocking and pinging, and allows cars with knock sensors to gain increased power.
Phase Separation: Ethanol-enriched gasoline is far more tolerant of water contamination than regular gasoline, helping to prevent phase separation and water at the bottom of the tank.