Swapping out auto for 5spd [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Violator
11-30-2004, 07:09 AM
My auto trans is just dying, TCC is shot and just doesnt satisfy me anymore, so instead of putting a load of cash in a 3spd auto, I was looking to get a 5spd from a 93 GA, now I know the achieva had a 5spd with a 3.3L so I dont see why I couldnt use one. Let me know if theres anyone out there that have done this.

Hexx
11-30-2004, 07:19 AM
I am assuming you have a 3.1 motor, a 93 GA GT, and ..... well.....thats all I can assume....no?

Matt95GT
11-30-2004, 08:33 AM
I know the achieva had a 5spd with a 3.3L

Nope, all V6's were automatic.

There is a thread on gaownersclub.com where someone theorized all parts needed for a manual conversion using an earlier manual transmission... tho it's no "exact swap." I would suggest taking a look over there if you're serious about going that route.

atc3434
11-30-2004, 11:38 PM
Nope, all V6's were automatic.


I thought I remembered that in 1993 a GA with the 3.3 liter v6 that a 5spd was avalible. When they went to the 3.1 the next year, the stick was no longer avalible with the 6. But like you said, the Olds had it, so its possible. So, Violator it is possible to convert over. It's going to be difficult though. For now, simply disconnect the TCC solenoid. I had the same motor/tranny in a Buick Century, and my TCC kept failing to unlock the TC, resulting in stalling when coming to a stop. So, my mechanic suggested I unhook it, and suffer the consquences of slightly less fuel mileage. Worked like a charm. Probably hurt highway mileage a little, but with a 3 spd, it wasn't that hot anyways.

Violator
12-01-2004, 08:00 AM
Yeah I have it unpluged so it doesnt lock up, I have that prob with both my 3spds
in the GAGT it has a jerky feeling when the converter locks up. Yeah I can get all the parts for a manual from another 93 GA for 150.00 the onlything is that I have to get the computer flashed, so it doesnt freak out about the auto trans being amiss. I have a 4t40 trans that came out of a 89 Bonny SSE need to be rebuilt cause it slipped, If someone had the time or looking for a replacement please pm me, so much crap around here I tell ya. But yeah Im seriously thinking manual 5spd with a 3300v6 damm look out

Hexx
12-01-2004, 08:16 AM
For the auto tranny and flash of the computer....I dont think this needs to be done. Well...maybe, but there is probably a way around it. Like, on my VWs I used to have, I was told that all I need to do to swap from an auto to 5sp is to (electron wise) cut and splice the neutral safety switch or something. Given these are 2 different cars though.

Matt95GT
12-01-2004, 08:59 AM
The only engines offered with a manual transmission in 92-93:
2.3L Quad OHC (Vin "3") - Isuzu transaxle (SE only)
2.3L Quad 4 HO (Vin "A") - Getrag transaxle (GT only)

I would have loved to see any V6 mated to a manual in an N-body... it's unfortunate that GM never did this.

atc3434
12-01-2004, 11:38 AM
The only engines offered with a manual transmission in 92-93:
I would have loved to see any V6 mated to a manual in an N-body... it's unfortunate that GM never did this.
+1!!!
It was optional in a Beratta or a Sunfire with a 3.1 for a few years, those both had potential to be quick. A 5spd with the 3300 would be great, that motor pulls exceptionally well on the topend, and also is incredibly strong, so it would handle forced induction or N2o very well. Programing would probably be a bear, I don't know of anyone who has done anything PCM wise with a 3300, perhaps the coding is similar to the big brother 3800. For sure a 5spd on the 3300 would be plenty nasty.

Matt95GT
12-01-2004, 12:28 PM
+1!!!
It was optional in a Beratta or a Sunfire with a 3.1 for a few years, those both had potential to be quick.

Yup, was on the 2.8/3.1 MFI J & L-body's. (I think you mean Sunbird tho) Too bad no love for the 90 degree V6's or the later 3x00 SFI 60 degrees.

atc3434
12-01-2004, 01:54 PM
Yea, Sunbird. My buddy had one, it couldn't beat my 3spd auto 3300 89 Buick Century, the 3.1 was a dog back then.

Coop
12-01-2004, 02:25 PM
Was also an option on the Celebrity w/2.8 - Getrag and iirc there were some grand prixs with the 3.1/ 5-spd too.

Violator
12-02-2004, 10:31 AM
This is a picture of a 3800

Also This is what I found from a Fiero sites

Trans/subframe/drive axles: 87 GT w/ 5spd Getrag
Engine: 94 Bonneville 3800 orginally with T60E computer controlled transmission normally aspirated, Sequential Fuel Injection, SFI (read: computer fires each injector individually)
Clutch: fresh NAPA clutch for stock V6 Fiero
Other: Koni shocks, Yokohama UV+4 on after market 15 in wheels for everyday, Yokohama A008 RSII on GT wheels for track driving, shortened shift lever, GT steering wheel and instrument package w/ volt and oil pressure pod, passenger side glove box, tacky but functional Holley side scoop.

Engine and trans bolt directly w/o mod. Custom flywheel has to be made to bolt to *8* bolt crank pattern of 3800. I had the Fiero V6 f/w modified to accomplish this. I believe the 96 F-body (Camaro/Firebird), which uses the 3800 Series II, has a flywheel which may work stock or at least require less modication. This was the hardest part of the mod. I had to find (get this) 5/16-18 bolts for the crank. Thats right - SAE bolts on an otherwise Metric car. They had to be very strong with a thin head for clutch disk clearance. I settled on some 190 ksi cam bolts from ARP. Seems to be fine so far. Starter ring gear and teeth are the same.


Plus check this jbody site out
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=228240&t=228240&start=0
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=228240&t=228240&start=0 (http://http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=228240&t=228240&start=0)

adammsu
12-03-2004, 06:37 AM
i hear the hardest part of installing a manual trans is the pedal

Matt95GT
12-03-2004, 08:02 AM
Good find Violator

Custom flywheel eh? Not something I'd attempt myself... gotta have a good machine shop fab one. A catastrophic flywheel failure is not pretty.

i hear the hardest part of installing a manual trans is the pedal

Nah, not really. Someone has done it before on the 92-95's and posted info. More of a PIA than anything... gotta run all the BS lines and fluid reservoir, etc.

grand am QT
12-03-2004, 09:39 AM
where do you get a manual for a grand am?
i was told they only came in automatic and i havent found one that would bolt up
i would love a five speed.

Coop
12-03-2004, 03:28 PM
you could always get a 5-spd with the 4 cylinder engine in the GA's so there would be your source for the pedal, bracket, lines, reservoir, etc. The 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 are all 60DegV6's and as far as I know the transaxle bolt pattern hasn't changed (don't quote me on that) and GM did used to make cars with a 60*V6 and a 5-spd so that's a potential source for a transaxle. To do it right you'd have to have a custom prom made for OBD1 cars and reprogram the PCM for OBD2 cars. Not sure about VSS compatibility, but anything is possible with time, effort, research, and $.

Coop
12-03-2004, 03:32 PM
Also grand am QT, in '92 iirc the GA was available with V6/5-spd not sure if it was a Chevy 60*V6 or a buick engine (3.0, 3.3, 3.8), there again I'm not sure if the transaxle bolt patterns are the same, maybe used a different bellhousing?

Matt95GT
12-03-2004, 04:51 PM
Also grand am QT, in '92 iirc the GA was available with V6/5-spd not sure if it was a Chevy 60*V6 or a buick engine (3.0, 3.3, 3.8), there again I'm not sure if the transaxle bolt patterns are the same, maybe used a different bellhousing?

It was the 90* 3.3L V6 in 92-93. Unfortunetly there was no 5-speed offered with it... tho I guess that was the point of this thread. lol :cheers:

Coop
12-03-2004, 04:54 PM
I just saw a '93 3.3/5-spd about a week ago.

*edit* nevermind, I checked it out again and upon further inspection noticed the listing has it as a manual and description even says 5-spd manual, but the pic of the interior says otherwise.

Either way there were 5-spds mated to 60*V6's so there should be something out there to bolt up.

*edit again* Just realized the original poster had a '93 :doh:

Matt95GT
12-03-2004, 05:32 PM
^lol

The options offered on the 92-95's were very confusing. With 4 engines and 4 transmission (2 auto 2 manual) in one year it is hard to figure out. I actually tracked down and purchased Pontiac brochures from 90, 92, 93, & 94 to confirm everything. (plus they have pretty pictures) Even they must have realized it was confusing - there's a chart showing available engine/tranny combos.

Violator
12-03-2004, 09:31 PM
Im thinking of useing the tranny from the 2.3 that was in the car and using the clutch assem from a 3800 say grand prix, It sould bolt up fine since the 3800 and 3300 do share the same pattern, but installing the gearbox and such should be a charm

atc3434
12-03-2004, 10:19 PM
I just saw a '93 3.3/5-spd about a week ago.

*edit* nevermind, I checked it out again and upon further inspection noticed the listing has it as a manual and description even says 5-spd manual, but the pic of the interior says otherwise.

Either way there were 5-spds mated to 60*V6's so there should be something out there to bolt up.

*edit again* Just realized the original poster had a '93 :doh:

Did you see that one on Autotrader.com? I just saw a v6/5spd that was really an auto on there the other day researching this. I could have sworn up and down I'd encountered a 5spd/3300 combo, but I can't find one anywhere, and nothing backs that up, so maybe not. Anyways, it sure would be sweet.

Matt95GT
12-04-2004, 11:13 AM
Im thinking of useing the tranny from the 2.3 that was in the car and using the clutch assem from a 3800 say grand prix, It sould bolt up fine since the 3800 and 3300 do share the same pattern, but installing the gearbox and such should be a charm

After much research I did a few years back, to my knowledge, there is no 5-speed ever offered on any 3300/3800. There was a 5-speed available, tho rare, on the 3.4 "Twin Dual Cam" 60*V6 Grang Prix's... and some of the older 2.8/3.1 MFI's.

Hmm... I should scan all the Pontiac brochures... there's alot of good info in there for everyone.

Did you see that one on Autotrader.com? I just saw a v6/5spd that was really an auto on there the other day researching this. I could have sworn up and down I'd encountered a 5spd/3300 combo, but I can't find one anywhere, and nothing backs that up, so maybe not. Anyways, it sure would be sweet.

Ebay, autotrader, etc have listing errors all the time. I frequently see V6 / manual listings, then inspection of the pics shows a Quad 4 / 5 speed. Hell, I used to frequently see this mistake at dealers all the time. Test drove a 90 Beretta GTZ marked "V6, 5-speed" on the windshield... and they didn't offer a V6 in a 90 GTZ. lol

atc3434
12-04-2004, 12:08 PM
Yea a 95-96 GTP had a 60 degree motor with a 5spd, that would probably work. Listing errors **** me off.

Violator
12-20-2004, 04:37 PM
I just found this

check this link
1,2,3 steps to 3300 auto to 3300 5spd (http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15789&highlight=3300)