Condensation in Oil [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Mike Jung
02-10-2005, 09:02 PM
After reading about john_ertw (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/member.php?u=5795)'s (who is also a member here) issue at Bobistheoilguy.com:
What does condensation in oil look like? (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=118101&Searchpage=1&Main=8721)

http://www.geocities.com/pencilonly/condensation1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pencilonly/condensation2.jpg

His Used Oil Analysis: Using Esso XD-3 0W30 oil for 11,000km [6.8K miles] in a 2002 Pontiac Grand Am GT - 3.4L engine (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=240721&Searchpage=1&Main=17094)

The lab test on his oil said, "Test for glycol is negative."
So no coolant in the oil.



...The condensation is due to the fact this car is only driven at highway speeds -99% of the time. The engine never warms up to proper operating condition. The thermostat temperature is 2 or 3 notches below normal and if you touch the top of the engine right after one of the ~1 hour drives it is fairly cold...
My engine also gets like to (about 83C [182F]) 2-notches beow 90C [194F] on the engine coolant temp gauge; while driving to work on the highway in the winter morning.
But will climb alittle more while waiting in traffic when downtown.

I don't seem to have this problem, only driving 17km [10.5-miles] to work.
But john_ertw does, driving 75km [46.6-miles] each way to work on all highway driving; at an average speed of 100km/h [62-mph] :confused:


Any opinions ?

Has anyone have/had a condensation problem like this on their GA (other than john_ertw) ?

badboy2451
02-10-2005, 10:37 PM
i really dont understand what you are tryin to ask or what you are gettin at, but usually when you have coolent in your oil, you got a leaky lower intake manifold

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17957

Silver02EX
02-10-2005, 11:30 PM
I have seen it in my fieonce's 2000 Mitsubishi Mirage. She drives 2 miles to work and back.... The car only see 4 miles a day. Everywhere we go we always take one my cars. My first thought was the head gasket but when I posted on bobistheoilguy, I saw that I wasn't the only one with moisture in the oil.

GrahamKracka
02-10-2005, 11:35 PM
i really dont understand what you are tryin to ask or what you are gettin at, but usually when you have coolent in your oil, you got a leaky lower intake manifold

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17957


the leaky LIM is the cause of the coolant leaking into your oil

Panacea
02-11-2005, 01:45 AM
^^^ They tested the oil and it says no coolant is in there...
I would have to venture and say a gasket is the case too, but I may be wrong. My old saturn had the same problem. Never did fix it. Call the dealership and ask them. They would probably know best...

Matt95GT
02-11-2005, 07:23 AM
Does the 3400 have any type of crankcase ventilation heater? If it doesn't I wouldn't be surprised if the engine doesn't get warm enough (in your climate) to make the moisture evaporate.

The early Quad 4's often had condensation. Consequently GM added a crankcase ventilation heater onto the oil separator in a later revision to heat the vapors in the separator so that the water droplets could separate from the oil droplets.

I know the 3400's use a PCV instead of an oil separator, but it sounds like this is what is occuring. Unless there is a crankcase ventilation heater that isn't functioning on the 3400, there isn't much to do about it when it's very cold.

Mike Jung
01-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Anyone have/seen condensation in their oil ?

Getting ready for a tail pipe emission test (Ontario requires it every 2-years) next week.

I just changed the air filter (going back to a paper AC Delco, or Wix/NAPA Gold. Not going to use my K&N drop-in anymore) & the PCV valve.

The oil cap & PCV valve had a little bit of white goop (more so on the PCV valve).
& the PCV valve had water dripping from it (& more so when turned upside down) :eek:
(I guess I should of changed the PCV valve back in spring, when I had the LIM changed. Oh, I forgot.)

How fast does condensation build-up in our crankcase to form the white goop ?

I had just drove it for like a couple of miles with multi-stops, before changing out the PCV valve & air filter.
& it was cold a couple of days last week at air temperature of -18C/0F (in the morning):
Driving my 16km/10-miles (by highway) to work, it basically took 3/4 the way before the heater started working good.

PS: Oil has been changed like 10-days ago.
It had some condensation in it before the oil change; but a quick trip on the highway for 30-minutes cleared that out on the old oil (before the oil change).
& the idle of my GA has been normal.

Here is to hoping the new AC Delco PCV valve solves the problem.

Vegeta
01-07-2008, 04:22 PM
my 96 3.4 DOHC does this bad. I had what looked like vaseline in my PCV hose and in the TB vacuum line. Oil on the bottom of the cap looked just like the pic. Figured it was condensation and not coolant. My catch can setup is going on the 96 once I figure out how to run it. Used to have it on my 91 DOHC and it caught a lot of the oil mist and condensation. 60 mile trip and it would be full (used a water seperator for an air compressor line and some steel wool).

Ajaxus
01-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Had it once, mechanic said it was normal on these engines..that was about 20-25k miles ago...haven't had it since.

Panacea
01-07-2008, 06:36 PM
I don't have an straight answer for you Mike, but I know the wife's Alero (2.2) has the milky stuff building up on it. I would say it doesn't take more than a week or two probably. I know she only travels about 5-10 miles each way to work a day. It's more common in the winter than the summer.

Falke401
01-07-2008, 06:51 PM
I have the yellow gunk crap on my oil cap too. I only drive 5 miles at a time too, so im just telling myself its normal. I just replaced the lim a couple months ago, so I really hope thats not the problem. If you take the car for about a 30 minute drive, most of it should go away.

Molson
01-08-2008, 09:13 AM
Happens if you take a lot of short trips, and the car sits. Esp if it doesn't get enough time at peak op temp.

silverbullet51
02-28-2009, 06:05 PM
so mike, why are you switching back to a paper air filter?

McFlurrey06
02-28-2009, 06:25 PM
Bumping a thread, and it has nothing to do with the thread.

Way to go.

silverbullet51
02-28-2009, 08:48 PM
Bumping a thread, and it has nothing to do with the thread.

Way to go.

oh forgive me, I should have sent him a PM instead. Why don't you go and blast other newbs who either can't spell or don't search!

Mike Jung
03-01-2009, 11:55 AM
so mike, why are you switching back to a paper air filter?
Because:
- it was getting old & IMO started showing more "holey" spots in it, when held up to the light. I got it about 10-years ago, the Malibu version; before they made a GA version with the extra stick on gasket.
- Tired of cleaning it annually/every year lol
- I am changing my oil once a year or when the CHANGE OIL light comes on, & don't want too much dirt in my engine/oil.

The K&N air filters (http://www.knfilters.com) are NOT as good filtering out dirt; as say a stock paper air filter.
This has been proven in some people's 'Used Oil Analysis'.

If you want you want more air flow, a cotton gauze with oil type air filter (like say a K&N) is the way to go.
But if you want better filtering of dirt, keep using a paper air filter.

Some people now prefer S&B air filters (http://www.sbfilters.com); because they are similar to K&N, being a cotton gauze with oil air filter -> but are said to be a better built (stronger)/designed air filter (more/thicker cotton gauze material -> for better filtering of dirt).
Have a look at this: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000265)

“In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:

FILTER % Efficiency

AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%

Additionally, these 2 were tested using FINE test dust. The K&N was cleaned and retested, the AFE was the conical version:

K&N 89.85%
AFE Conical 92.33%


FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:

FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O

K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco 6.23

DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY From best to worst. This is the AMOUNT OF DIRT it took to create an ADDITIONAL 10 inches of water restriction. At that point the test is terminated.This indicates HOW LONG a filter is good before it must be cleaned or replaced.

AC Delco 573.898 grams
WIX/Napa 447.366
Purolator 388.659
Baldwin 388.154
UNI 374.638
Mystery bargain 350.402
AFE Pro Guard 7 232.516
K&N 211.58
Amsoil 196.323

TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING THE TEST. This is how much dirt your engine will take in if you use the filter for the duration that would cause the filter to become "dirty" enough to need replacement or cleaning. The "Dirt Passing The Filter" is the dirt collected by the "Post Filter" during the test.

FILTER DIRT IN GRAMS PASSED
AC Delco 0.4 g
Baldwin 1.1g
AFE Pro Guard 7 1.8g
Mystery Bargain 2.4g
Amsoil 2.7g
WIX/Napa 4.4g
Purolator 5.0g
K&N 6.0g
UNI 7.9g

Note: The Purolator was reported to have a seal malfunction during the test and passed more dirt than it would have with a good seal.”
Here is a new link: http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

PS: But I do seem to miss the top end of my engine's rpm with a K&N or S&B filter though.
& slightly lower MPG.

silverbullet51
03-02-2009, 10:23 PM
interesting. I also read somewhere about people over-oiling the filter and gumming up the MAF.

350rs
03-02-2009, 10:29 PM
so is that delco oil filter the best or the worst? looks to me like it would be the best? or am i reading it backwards?

rocketfast123
03-02-2009, 10:33 PM
interesting. I also read somewhere about people over-oiling the filter and gumming up the MAF.

I did that to my 2.4. It put a nice layer of oil on my IAT, and cause my tranny to act wonky.

The K&N air filters are NOT as good filtering out dirt; as say a stock paper air filter.
This has been proven in some people's 'Used Oil Analysis'.


I'm still kicking myself for throwing away the paper air filter that came with my WAI. At lease when you held it up to the sun you did not see any light.

Mike Jung
03-02-2009, 10:51 PM
so is that delco oil air filter the best or the worst? looks to me like it would be the best? or am i reading it backwards?
Filtered the best.

Flowed the least amount of air flow.

Held the most dirt. So it would last the longest in use.

Let the least amount of dirt through.

350rs
03-03-2009, 02:52 PM
oh this is an air filter?? i thought it was oil. my bad