New type of security related no start condition? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Breadfan
06-10-2005, 02:26 PM
My sister's 02 GAGT recently had a bad no start condition. She called me to come look at it and I couldn't find any simple problems.

Basically, you turn the key and nothing happens. All the lights work, and with the key turned to "start" nothing dims. She had already tried a jump. I checked the battery terminals and they appear in good shape, so I don't see this being a battery issue.

The starter relay in the main fusebox clicks, but it doesn't seem much else is happening. I told her I thought it could be the starter or solenoid, so she had it towed to a friends shop.

He said it's not the starter, but something to do with the security system or PASSlock. I'm not sure how he diagnosed it or if his shop (a meinekie) has the required scan tools to truly diagnose the problem. (He's a knowledgable guy but it wasn't with all the equipment a larger shop or dealer might have.)

Anyway, I'm used to the main security bugs...where it'll crank but not start. This one won't do ANYTHING. Security light does not come on, but when you try to start all dash lights go out except for the service engine light.

She's going to try her other key and also try the "leave on run for 20 minutes" trick tonight. Other than that it's looking like another 90 dollar tow to a dealer, and 85 dollar diagnosis there, and then who knows how much to fix.

Hoping some others have had similar issues and could help shed some light.

I feel pretty bad for her, her car is a lemon. Mine went 82,000 before I traded it in (just the other week!) with no super major problems...even the original LIM. She's had 2 lims, this, and her car performs pretty poorly for 49,000 miles.... *sigh*

Malaclypse
06-10-2005, 10:14 PM
I'm not sure where the year model break is, but in the later model cars the vehicle will not crank if the incorrect passlock code is sent to the PCM. Instead of what happens on the later models, crank, run and die two seconds later.

Breadfan
06-10-2005, 10:33 PM
Interesting...I'll have to check and see if the key on run worked for her...I never fixed mine, it only did it about twice a year...

brsexton
06-11-2005, 07:18 AM
I think she may have something other then the Passlock enabled. Passlock kills the fuel to the engine. It will not prevent the starter from working. Seems like she may have an electrical problem.

sc02grandam
06-11-2005, 10:20 AM
I think she may have something other then the Passlock enabled. Passlock kills the fuel to the engine. It will not prevent the starter from working. Seems like she may have an electrical problem.

actually it will stop the starter from working

a simple test is.. just cut the yellow passlock wire and try starting the car... you'll get the same symptoms as you described above.. dashboard lights initialize.. but nothing happens.. and the security light is blinking or on

it looks like a bad key lock cylinder.. do a search on the key cylinder and you will find a ton of info

badboy2451
06-11-2005, 11:14 AM
actually it will stop the starter from working

a simple test is.. just cut the yellow passlock wire and try starting the car... you'll get the same symptoms as you described above.. dashboard lights initialize.. but nothing happens.. and the security light is blinking or on

it looks like a bad key lock cylinder.. do a search on the key cylinder and you will find a ton of info
'

he said that the security light doesn't come on

sc02grandam
06-11-2005, 11:55 AM
'

he said that the security light doesn't come on

oops my bad lol

Breadfan
06-12-2005, 11:41 AM
Well, I talked to her yesterday she said the guy looking at the car reports the security light is blinking.

When I looked I didn't notice it, odd becuase it was the first thing I was looking for...

Maybe I just missed it??? It was late in the day!

SilverGAGT04
06-14-2005, 07:14 PM
Replace the lock cylinder, cause I am betting that if you dont, it will do it again. We let cars with the code p1631 go all the time, and they all come back on the hook. Reprograming the VTD system, is just temporary. IMO.

GTluver
06-15-2005, 10:36 PM
same EXACT thing happened to me about 3 wks ago.....(i have Viper alarm)....so i go and try it to start her w/ remote start......it starts, dies within 2 secs...im like wtf.....sure enuff.....the security light was flashing and the SES light was on. Engine would turn or start everytime it would just died within 2-3 sec tho. What I did was disconnect the neg battery cable and let it sit like that for at least 24 hrs.....next day I cracked it twice, no luck :( but on the 3rd time, it started just fine and has been good since then.....that was the first time i had a problem w/ the security thing and the car not starting or running.

I will say that w/ every decent pothole out there, the security light would come on but wouldnt affect the car negatively. The light would disappear when i would turn the car off and wont come on on the next ignition.

Breadfan
06-17-2005, 10:29 AM
Ok...she ended up towing it to the dealer, and I just called her and found out they hit her with an $800 bill.

This is what confuses me, they apparently told her some wire was "not connected right" and caused the BATTERY to leak acid on "some module" [the passlock module] which damaged it. So the passlock module was replaced (I think) and the bulk of the bill was labor to apparnetly rewire the faulty wiring.

To be fair she was on the road and didn't have the car or the detailed bill. She's not a car-techie, so her explanation may be different from what they really said. But that's what she said they told her.

If this is the case I can't help but wonder if she's getting ripped off. Is there any sort of wiring near the battery that can be damaged from a so-called leaking battery?

The worst part is, I looked at the car before it was towed ANYWHERE. I took the battery terminals off to check them for corrosion...they looked good, and I put them back on tight. The battery looked FINE. No leakage, no bulging.

Also I didn't think there was any passlock related stuff or the BCM located in such proximity to the battery that acid leaking out could cause an issue.

Please let me know what you think - I've already asked her for the detailed bill but she's off on a week's vacation so may not have it for a while.

To make matters worse at no time did she say the ignition cylinder was replaced...which from all I've read here seems like the most common fix for this problem.

What do you guys think?

iceman
06-17-2005, 10:32 AM
There is no passlock module per se... It's all in the BCM and PCM which are inside the car. Sounds like a BS explanation to me. If I were you, ask them for the bad "passlock module" they replaced. They probably just did a security relearn (key on till the light stops blinking) or changed the ignition cylinder.

Breadfan
06-17-2005, 10:46 AM
Yeah my BS alarm went off, but I can't do much going off just her interpretation of what they said. I just called her back, left a voicemail, I'm going to have her get them to fax the bill/workorder over to me. I'll also tell her to request they return all of the old parts along with the car.

She won't get the car for a week since she's out, but atleast I can see the workorder today.

So long as they fix it I guess that's good, just hope they aren't charging her alot more than is necessary. $800 seems high even if they do the lock cylinder - just curious, what have others paid for this repair?

Malaclypse
06-17-2005, 12:42 PM
If you ran by my shop you could expect to pay $200 - 240 labor + parts.

iceman
06-17-2005, 01:05 PM
Does she have an aftermarket alarm at all???

Breadfan
06-17-2005, 01:26 PM
Nope, her car is 100% stock.

Well I couldn't get in touch with her, so probably won't get the written details until Monday.

Still even if she wasn't exact I'm trying to figure out what this leaking battery and bad wiring could be...sheesh, battery appeared fine to me a few days before she had it towed to them...

Malaclypse
06-18-2005, 01:33 AM
The battery is nowhere near anything involving passlock. That line is complete BS unless a battery cable was loose and they're taking you to town about the passlock bit.

brsexton
06-18-2005, 03:38 AM
actually it will stop the starter from working

a simple test is.. just cut the yellow passlock wire and try starting the car... you'll get the same symptoms as you described above.. dashboard lights initialize.. but nothing happens.. and the security light is blinking or on

it looks like a bad key lock cylinder.. do a search on the key cylinder and you will find a ton of info



I found this online and copied and pasted it. I also checked my service manual for Grandam/Alero and it says the same about cutting fuel. Passlock has nothing to do with the starter motor itself.


"Passlock@ is a passive theft-deterrent system.
Passlock@ enables fuel if the ignition lock cylinder has
not been tampered with. It will disable fuel if the ignition
lock cylinder has been tampered with.
During normal operation, the SECURITY light will go off
approximately five seconds after the ignition key is
turned to ON and the engine is started.
After attempting to start the engine, if the SECURITY
light flashes or stays on, wait ten minutes with the key in
ON until the light goes off. Then turn the ignition to
OFF before attempting to start the engine again."

Malaclypse
06-18-2005, 01:50 PM
Straight from GM SI, Doc# 737817

Passlockô System
... If starting is attempted without authorization from the Passlockô System, the powertrain control module (PCM) will disable engine starting. Start disable may be in the form of fuel disable or starter disable, depending on engine application.

Breadfan
06-21-2005, 12:22 PM
I'm gonna jump on her case again today and try to get an update. She doesn't seem to care that she's getting ripped off.

To make things worse, she's apparently saying I messed it up [PASSlock] when I changed her LIM a month ago.

The dealer claimed someone hooked wires up wrong (becase we all know how easy it is to hook up different sized connectors that were labeled clearly before being pulled off). Anyway, she basically told someone that she felt I did something wrong that messed it up. Geez if she has that kinda faith in my abilities I don't see why she had me do a $1,000 job for the cost of parts... :)

This sorta respect reminds me why it's good to say "NO" from time to time.

coupe
06-21-2005, 02:24 PM
I would tell her to take a walk.
I have the security problem and have had it for years. Today alone it did it to me 3 times. But it may not do it again for a day or a month. I gotta fix it.....im being lazy.

Breadfan
06-22-2005, 12:30 PM
OK well this might not be as bad as I thought. I talked to her today, she's gonna give me the work order, but said the bad battery and corroded wiring from the leaking battery was unrelated, the the guy found that hwne he cracked the hood.

(Still not sure how it developed in 1 week, but atleast I'm not being blamed...)

Anyway, she said she thinks they replaced "some cylinder thing" so sounds like they gave her a new lock cylinder which is along the lines of what would need to be replaced.

As for the corroded wiring, I'm not sure exactly what that could've been.

On a side note she got the car back and her A/C doesn't work. She took it back to have the checked out, I bet THEY didn't hook something back up, lol. Hope they don't rip her off there...

I'll still see the workorder and car once she gets it back. I know these cars pretty well (Had mine for over 4 years and fixed all the issues myself, not to mention doing her LIM), so when she made it sound like they felt the battery was the cause I was really worried.

We'll see... *sigh*