Toluene, Acetone, Water [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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D0M1N8R
09-08-2005, 07:02 PM
Ive been reading a bit and wanted to gather more info from you guys before I do anything stupid.
I've got a 2000 grand am se 2.4L gets average 25-27MPG
Price of gas just keeps sky rocketing and im getting desprite.

First off I hear a lot of good in my searches with people who actuall tried mixing a small amount of acetone with gas. I am thinking about trying it out. Thinking of getting a 5 gallon tank and mixing it in the 5gal tank before pouring in car tank just so no pure acetone ever touches anything on car.

Second I see some people recommending Toluene over Acetone but cant find any good descriptive sites on adding this into your fuel.

And thirdly this one has been around a while but what do you guys think about water injection? Suppose to spray a mist of water when the intake opens and when the combustion step happens water gets evaporated and expands a ton.

Panacea
09-08-2005, 07:27 PM
- Spark + gas = explosion/fire
- Water puts out fire.

Figure that one out.


Secondly, don't believe everything you read on the internet. If you want an answer, talk to the dealership, write GM, contact the different car magazines, etc. Those people I would trust over some schmo on the internet. If you don't feel like doing the latter, I would be glad to throw a pretty webpage together telling you that you can put those chemicals in with your gas. :)

D0M1N8R
09-08-2005, 07:56 PM
On the water though gas doesnt mix with water. I mean the last thing you want to put out a gas fire is water. So in the cylinder you have a mist of gas and water floating around until a spark takes place which the gas makes fire and heats the water which quickly then evaporates. This is my understanding of it.

Also on the site comment I know anyone can put up a site which is why I have been reading up on this stuff for couple days now from a lot of sites rather then just one. Been googling and if any of this was false I would expect some search results that point me to some sites warning you of the false information on the web.

freakydeaky
09-09-2005, 07:33 AM
i read about the acetone/gas mixture on this site.... http://digg.com/mods/Acetone_In_Fuel_Said_to_Increase_Mileage... here's more interesting articles... http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone:Data:sentzmastersmith... http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

2K2GAGT1BQE
09-09-2005, 07:54 AM
And thirdly this one has been around a while but what do you guys think about water injection? Suppose to spray a mist of water when the intake opens and when the combustion step happens water gets evaporated and expands a ton.


Read the latest Popular Mechanics... There's an article called "Looking for a Miracle" that tests all of these supposed mileage/gas saving gadgets... None of them worked, in fact, all of them decreased HP and mileage.

Anyway, back to the point, water injection was tested and here's what they had to say: "This technology was developed in WWII to provide emergency sprint power for turbosupercharged fighter planes. At altitude, there is less air for cooling engines. The turbos, however, cram air into the inlet at manifold pressures nearly the same as those at sea level. The compressed intake air, heated as it goes through the turbos, makes the engine even hotter. Spraying water, or a water-alcohol mixture, directly into the intake lowers the combustion-chamber temperatures. This permits substantially more power for brief periods. Several manufacturers have attempted to apply this technology to automotive use. We ordered an AquaTune from a classified ad in the back pages of PM. "AquaTune is like no other water injection system in that it is, in actuality, a fuel cell hydrogen processor. It produces hydrogen-rich bubbles before being introduced into the engine draft." -from classified ad. "An ultra-sonic barometric pressure chamber giving off ultra-sonic frequencies" apparently splits water molecules to create hydrogen bubbles. Anyone who can explain that, please call me--I'd like to make some hydrogen ultrasonically from water and solve the energy crisis while simultaneously solving global warming.

It was relatively easy to install the AquaTune, although we did need a few feet of our own vacuum line. (What do you want for $399?) Unlike the pump-fed water-injection systems on P-38 fighters, the AquaTune relies on intake manifold vacuum to pull distilled water from a plastic bottle and into the manifold. So, at periods of WOT, virtually no water should enter the engine.

The Dyno test says: With the AquaTune adjusted according to the instructions, the test truck gave us 20 fewer horsepower and about a 20 percent poorer fuel economy." -Popular Mechanics

They tested fuel line magnets, intake twisters (vortex creators), electronic engine ionizer, fuel atomizer, and water injection. Only ONE didn't decrease performance or fuel management... that was the magnets, but since gasoline molecules are not magnetic, it didn't do a darn thing but waste $20-$22.

D0M1N8R
09-09-2005, 08:56 AM
I see much of the same thing on that site. People who actually tried it claim it works while everyone else dismisses the idea.
I also seen someone who said myth busters had a show where they tested this. I went to myst busters site and searched around on all there episodes but see nothing on this subject at all.

freakydeaky
09-09-2005, 08:59 AM
I see much of the same thing on that site. People who actually tried it claim it works while everyone else dismisses the idea.
I also seen someone who said myst busters had a show where they tested this. I went to myst busters site and searched around on all there episodes but see nothing on this subject at all.

you've misread..... and i quote, "This sounds a lot like an urban legend here, with several people saying that it does work, and some that it can't. I guess we'll have to wait for a mythbusters special on it."... there is no special on this

D0M1N8R
09-09-2005, 09:03 AM
Thanks for the heads up on popular mechanics. I will be picking up a copy later on today.

D0M1N8R
09-09-2005, 09:07 AM
While the acetone may or may not improve performance (and may or may not eat at your engine parts), the fact remains that just handling the acetone would be dangerous. Acetone is as flammible as gasoline and will eat at your skin/lungs as well. Why would you risk your health to get an extra 5 mpg? Also, I recently saw a Mythbusters episode where they experimented with acetone, mothballs, sugar, and bleach. Results: Acetone showed no noticable improvement. Actually, mothballs increased the horsepower of the engine by about 10 hp, but the engine made wierd sounds. By far, the worst thing was bleach. Bleach in the gas will kill the tank, and actually stall the engine. Bleach in the oil will cause an Engine to sieze and overheat. posted by CompIsMyRx (1) at 09:26 AM 8/03/05 score:--

Thats the one.

freakydeaky
09-09-2005, 09:10 AM
here's a poll of users who have tried this... acetone/gas poll (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t385048.html) ... another link... http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

White99GAGT
09-09-2005, 10:01 AM
Just thought I would throw this out there, this topic as been discussed on the Explorer forum. Some people have kept track of their results so it may be an interesting read.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133739&highlight=acetone

D0M1N8R
09-09-2005, 10:29 AM
After rereading that popular mechanics quote it sounds like the injection system they used seperated the H20 before introducing it to the combustion chamber. This would be quite diffrent since the water injection depends on water to be there to evaporate on combustion. This injection system instead produces a small amount of hydrogen gas then mixes it in with the air being breathed in by the motor. Very interesting though.

2K2GAGT1BQE
09-09-2005, 11:16 AM
After rereading that popular mechanics quote it sounds like the injection system they used seperated the H20 before introducing it to the combustion chamber. This would be quite diffrent since the water injection depends on water to be there to evaporate on combustion. This injection system instead produces a small amount of hydrogen gas then mixes it in with the air being breathed in by the motor. Very interesting though.


You might re-read that again, what they were saying is that the advertisement for the product stated that hydrogen bubbles was created by supersonic vibrations which is obviously not true. The writer was being sarcastic. The actual product doesn't work the way that it is advertised, but it does introduce water into the combustion chamber, like you are talking about, and it results in decreased performance. "Unlike the pump-fed water-injection systems on P-38 fighters, the AquaTune relies on intake manifold vacuum to pull distilled water from a plastic bottle and into the manifold. So, at periods of WOT, virtually no water should enter the engine." - straight from the magazine article.

A few of the products tested were falsely advertised, one supposedly had capacitors in it and when it melted and caught on fire in the engine bay, it was proven that no capacitors were present at all...

This statement was pulled directly from the magazine, not my words:

"AquaTune is like no other water injection system in that it is, in actuality, a fuel cell hydrogen processor. It produces hydrogen-rich bubbles before being introduced into the engine draft." -from classified ad. "An ultra-sonic barometric pressure chamber giving off ultra-sonic frequencies" apparently splits water molecules to create hydrogen bubbles. Anyone who can explain that, please call me--I'd like to make some hydrogen ultrasonically from water and solve the energy crisis while simultaneously solving global warming."

ProtonXX
05-19-2007, 01:44 AM
Im using the aquatune in my Vibe & I got results. Im considering put it in my Grand Am also. But these forums are hostile towards for no reason :P

normal
05-19-2007, 06:34 PM
I would worry about spraying water into the cylinder, especially since cavitation can occur when water under a high pressure changes phase to a gas, and anyone who has worked with water turbines know this can have devastating results on the blades, although i am not sure if the compression of a car engine is enough to cause cavitation, although higher operating temperatures of combustion engines may not help either...

tenspeed
05-20-2007, 06:50 PM
Im using the aquatune in my Vibe & I got results. Im considering put it in my Grand Am also. But these forums are hostile towards for no reason :P

I hope you and your water injection have a long life together.

The forums are hostile for a good reason. Someone is trying to pass off some junk as a gas saving device. The same thing happens when the electric supercharger, power chip and intake tornado are mentioned.

You had to go back almost two years to find this dead post.

gectek
05-22-2007, 12:31 PM
On the water though gas doesnt mix with water. I mean the last thing you want to put out a gas fire is water. So in the cylinder you have a mist of gas and water floating around until a spark takes place which the gas makes fire and heats the water which quickly then evaporates. This is my understanding of it.

Also on the site comment I know anyone can put up a site which is why I have been reading up on this stuff for couple days now from a lot of sites rather then just one. Been googling and if any of this was false I would expect some search results that point me to some sites warning you of the false information on the web.

the only thing you are going to get by doing that is a steam cleaned cylinder and alot of misfires. soon it will damage everything in the cylinder also. what you are talking about is the same as a leaking head gasket without the loss of compression, but it accomplishes the same thing. also in a perfect world all of the combustion gasses leave via the exhaust valve, not true though. all of that crap is crap basically, there is no magic solution it is all snake oil

03SilverBullet
05-29-2007, 08:47 PM
My impression of water injection, and this is from a buddy who is very good with cars and has a highly modded Bonneville, is that it can be very beneficial if used right. He MADE his own system, it sprays into the air intake and is only activated at WOT. This is of course on a S/C car, which is partly where the benefit is. The water cools the intake charge, which of course combats KR, and helps keep engine temps down when you are making multiple passes at the track. You should only use pure distilled water in such a system. Oh and also it helps clean the carbon build up from the cylinder walls which is a huge help too.