LIM... SECOND time around??? :( [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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MantaGreen97
09-16-2005, 12:12 PM
Yeah so recently I'm noticing my coolant level dropping slowly every once in a while and sure enough the where the LIM contacts the head on the front left side, there's something leaking and it doesn't seem like oil.

My LIM gaskets on my 3100 were done under [extended] warranty, sometime between 60-80k kms when the car was nearly 4 years old (2001). Car now has nearly 160k kms on it and is about 8 years old.

There doesn't seem to be any coolant in the oil and the leak is slow but I'm certain the LIM gaskets are going to have to be replaced again :( :mad:

How many people have had to do this repair more than once??? (I searched but never really found mention of doing this more than once.) This is really annoying. The repair would likely be $600-$1000 CDN through a shop/GM dealership and that is retarded considering you could probably buy used 3400 for that money. I've read here that some people have ranted to GM and got reduced cost repairs but I really don't care about that because I'm just going to do it myself anyway 'cause even at reduced cost I don't want to pay for a repair like this.

I've read the gaskets were redesigned in 2003... Anyone have the part number(s) for any of the updated parts for the 3100 (older, L82) engine? (I'm looking but I think all the part #s I'm finding are for the 3400?). I just want to make sure that when I do replace them it isn't going to happen a THIRD time :mad:

Graxall
09-16-2005, 12:16 PM
I have the same problem. My LIM is leaking coolant..hasent mixed with oil yet, gonna cost me 850 to fix lol US dollars..

2003SCT
09-16-2005, 03:13 PM
I had my 03 done twice even after the NEW style gasket was used....the new gasket isnt even a sure thing:(


CHRIS

Graxall
09-16-2005, 03:41 PM
is it a RECALL cuz if it is doesnt the dealership cover it no matter wat? even if you dont have a warranty or anything

MantaGreen97
09-16-2005, 04:10 PM
is it a RECALL cuz if it is doesnt the dealership cover it no matter wat? even if you dont have a warranty or anything

No it isn't a recall, but really it should be given the common occurence :mad: Since it isn't exactly a safety issue that is why it isn't a recall--recalls are only required since car maufacturers are required by federal regulations (both in US and Canada) to have vehicles be "safe".

There are various TSBs about the problem but TSBs are simply repair guidelines for commonly encountered problems.

APA in Canada has been working on an "investigation" about the problem but it has been going nowhere if you ask me (they've had it listed on their site for quite some time but GM refuses to budge on it and there has not been enough legal action as of yet).

However if you are a Canadian, and have had this problem on any GM 3.1/3.4 or 3.8 L V6 engine, I would still advise you to go here and fill out the report:

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=115#GMV6

The more people that reply to this with details and scans of repair bills, the more pressure they can put on GM to do *something* about what is very apparently a defective design which leads to an expensive repair.

MantaGreen97
09-16-2005, 04:15 PM
I had my 03 done twice even after the NEW style gasket was used....the new gasket isnt even a sure thing:(


CHRIS

Oh yeah that's great. :( I don't think the dealership I had it done at before even has a torque wrench in the place either. In fact I don't think most dealership garages do. I know they don't have a higher-range torque wrench because when I asked them to put my wheels back on with a hand torque wrench the service guy looked at me funny and explained that "these mechanics don't use torque wrenches" :rolleyes: I understand that they have torque adapters on the air wrenches but I've rarely seen them use them and with the number of crossthreaded lugs I've had I never trust those either.

Yeah so my replacement gasket probably never got the correct torque either... Since "they don't have torque wrenches" :rolleyes: If I do it myself at least I'll know I did it right--I honestly don't trust any mechanic as far as I can throw them (and that isn't far, lol).

coupe
09-17-2005, 12:38 AM
I had my LIM replaced with the revised gasket. Its been 35K miles since and no leak. Will it happen again? Maybe. Do i care? No. The price ya pay for countless thousands of pounds of moving steel, iron, plastic, rubber, aluminum etc. All vehicles have problems.......period.

GrahamKracka
09-17-2005, 12:47 AM
i had it happen twice with my GA......once with the original gasket, and with the revised gasket...but the second time around it didnt mix with the oil...it was just external

Graxall
09-17-2005, 03:45 AM
what exactly is the cause of this? certain milage? overworking engine? anyone realy know?

brsexton
09-17-2005, 05:07 AM
It has been said it is poor design of these engines- 3100's/3400's.. Go figure. GM, poor design?? NO WAY....Not GM.....HAHA

MantaGreen97
09-25-2005, 12:45 PM
I had my LIM replaced with the revised gasket. Its been 35K miles since and no leak. Will it happen again? Maybe. Do i care? No. The price ya pay for countless thousands of pounds of moving steel, iron, plastic, rubber, aluminum etc. All vehicles have problems.......period.

Certainly all vehicles have their problems but this isn't just one of those types of problems. This is the SAME problem that has been going on for over 10 years in MANY vehicles, on several platforms and over several generations. Chalking it up to a simple vehicle specific problem that you have to deal with, as with any vehicle, is seriously downplaying a *much* bigger and much more widespread problem which should not be seen as something typical and normal as with other small problems. To top it off the repair for the problem is expensive and even with the new gaskets, you can't be sure you are not going to have to revisit the problem again.

coupe
09-25-2005, 02:02 PM
If its been going on for 10 years and happens on many vehicles then it is obviuously "just one of those problems". Since its such a common problem your only choice is gonna be to do deal with it.

"widespread problem which should not be seen as something typical and normal"

"This is the SAME problem that has been going on for over 10 years in MANY vehicles, on several platforms and over several generations"

You dont make sense, not typical or normal? Then you say it is?

robry
09-25-2005, 02:08 PM
Just use blue loctite on the threads of the LIM bolts when you replace the gasket. Use a good silicon sealer across the block between the two heads as well. Tq the bolts to the new tq ratings/pattern. Good luck!

mcgrady
09-25-2005, 02:28 PM
It's not an engine design problem. The gasket design was the problem. When they used paper gaskets, this didn't happen. They switched from paper to plastic when they updated the 3.1 in 1994 and the problem has been occuring ever since.

It should not have taken until 2003 to come up with a new design though. But if the new gasket fails, it's because the installer didn't do the torque sequence properly or they didn't use the RTV sealant properly.

MantaGreen97
09-25-2005, 02:50 PM
If its been going on for 10 years and happens on many vehicles then it is obviuously "just one of those problems". Since its such a common problem your only choice is gonna be to do deal with it.

Well obviously I have to deal with it; along with everyone else who has a 3100 or 3400 engine in any GM vehicle for the past 10 years or so. Unfortunately "dealing with it" is quite an ordeal.


"widespread problem which should not be seen as something typical and normal"

"This is the SAME problem that has been going on for over 10 years in MANY vehicles, on several platforms and over several generations"

You dont make sense, not typical or normal? Then you say it is?

No I make perfect sense. A gasket problem such as this is not something that should be a "routine" replacement on any engine. It is certainly typical, but what I meant was, when you pass it off as just a mere "common problem" it sounds as if you're talking about blower motor resistors or warped brake rotors or a malfuntioning door lock switch--this is a much bigger and more prominent problem and it is simply ridiculous that it's been going on for as long as it has been. For my engine you can almost do that as the L82 was only a few years old then I think--perhaps a gasket problem would be acceptable then. But, for the people that have a 2003 or 2004 engine with the same problem as they had in a very similar engine in 1994? How many hundreds of thousands of 3100 and 3400 engines has GM produced which ALL have the same major problem yet GM's never bothered to chalk it up to anything more than isolated case failures (which we all know is *not* the truth)?

They even updated the upper and lower intake manifolds with the 3400 and the LG8 3100, for better performance, but did they bother to fix the gasket problem? No such luck.

That is retarded--if you can't fix a problem for 10 years and have had countless cases of failure, there is something seriously wrong with your engineering dept. (or you just never bothered to fix the problem at all, being willfully blind to it, as it seems the case has been with GM and the gasket problem).

coupe
09-25-2005, 06:18 PM
I wouldnt consider it a routine fix. Very few people post about having the problem a second time. Go ahead and search. Count the amount of posts that are here that concern a second replacement, not many.

MantaGreen97
09-26-2005, 01:35 PM
I wouldnt consider it a routine fix. Very few people post about having the problem a second time. Go ahead and search. Count the amount of posts that are here that concern a second replacement, not many.

Hmm, you might be right, but I wonder how many people have had the new (2003) gasket design and also how much mileage the average person has had on their vehicle after the first replacement. I didn't think mine would ever need doing again until recently when I noticed my coolant level dropping and then looked over at the gasket :(

Once I do it this time, with the new gasket, and doing it myself (because I trust myself far more than any mechanic, espeically after learning the dealership I bought the car from, and did the first repair, doesn't have a torque wrench in the place :mad: ) hopefully it will never need to be done again.