Jacking front of car? Trans flud? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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The_Wraith
09-27-2005, 11:53 AM
Ok, my 04, GT has 27k+ miles on it, and I want to change the trans fluid by the time it hits 30k, with Mobil 1 ATF. I'm just going to do a pan drop (yes I know this wont get it all out, but it will get most of it) plus I will change it again every year there after) . I also plan to put a trans cooler on, after winter, since it's going to be getting colder now anyway.

Now from what I read and search about the trans change, this is how I take it.

After I drop the pan, and replace the filter, I can reuse the pan gasket right?
how much fluid should I put back in, to be safe, before I start it up, to warm up the fluid to check the level.
I know you have to remove a plug, when the car is warmed up and running. and if the fluid comes out, it's full. But I want to make sure I have a safe level in there before starting it.

And when I have to add it, do I leave it running and just keep pouring it in until it comes out the hole.

Now my next ???, I know the car needs to be level, but yet I need to get under it to check the level, so if I put the front of the car on Ramps and then put a jack unther the middle of the rear and jack it up, until the car looks level. Is this ok??

or I guess I could put the front on jack stands as well. But where is the best place that won't damage the car, to jack the front up, and place the jack stands. Should it be jacked on the front frame???

iceman
09-27-2005, 12:09 PM
I remember reading that putting synthetic trans fluid in the 4t45 was bad... jaketuff may be able to elaborate more as I think he was one of the people that had a problem with it. To get the car level you can do whatever works, I'd put the front on ramps though so you don't have a jack and stands in your way.

atc3434
09-27-2005, 12:14 PM
(yes I know this wont get it all out, but it will get most of it) plus I will change it again every year there after)


Yea, like only 30% or so of the full capacity. But, like you said, if you're gonna do it every year. I'd probably go with a new gasket, unless the other one is in really good shape.

JHawk GT
09-27-2005, 12:16 PM
See post #18 in this thread (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31006) for a diagram of acceptable jack points.

MantaGreen97
09-27-2005, 12:25 PM
or I guess I could put the front on jack stands as well. But where is the best place that won't damage the car, to jack the front up, and place the jack stands. Should it be jacked on the front frame???

You should be able to jack the car up on the frame rail pinch welds that run along the sides of the car (same place where you'd jack up the car with the scissor jack in the spare tyre compartment to change a tyre). Or a better place would be on the front control arms, though depeding on your jack it may be harder to get there without jacking it up some on the side first. You can put the jack stands in the same places--either on the sides or under the front control arms.

Edit: Hmm, from that post above it would look like the control arms are not one of the recommended places in that diagram for the 1999 GA... In that case use the front suspension support frame instead--just follow the diagram I guess, lol.

coupe
09-27-2005, 01:04 PM
I dont recomend synthetic trans fluid in the 4t45......... mad slippage.

The_Wraith
09-27-2005, 01:11 PM
I dont recomend synthetic trans fluid in the 4t45......... mad slippage.

:taz: Man, now my head hurts... half the people say it's fine, half say it will slip.

coupe
09-27-2005, 01:14 PM
Yeah its a touchy subject.

The_Wraith
09-27-2005, 01:32 PM
ok, who has used it, and had no problems?

Panacea
09-27-2005, 02:31 PM
ok, who has used it, and had no problems?

Why take the chance?

JHawk GT
09-27-2005, 03:30 PM
ok, who has used it, and had no problems?

I've had Redline D4 in my tranny since 7K miles on the odo. No problems at all. Don't know how long it took for slipping to occur for those who used full synthetic atf, but I would've expected the problem to occur with mine already if it were going to happen.

DarkKnight
09-27-2005, 08:43 PM
No one uses the search. :smack: Here is a genuinly good piece of information that should have settled the syn/dino debate. Try reading it this time folks. ;)

If you search this board, you'll see a lot of contradicting information about running synthetic ATF in our cars. In order to dispell the myths and explain the contradictory info, I did a little research and this is what I found:

I called Red Line again. Yes, I realize they are "biased", but I put him on the spot and he was very diplomatic and backed everything up.

He said GM releases the Dexron III spec that must be met in the areas of viscosity, coefficient of friction and thermal breakdown. They do this to prevent things such as slippage, varnishing, and to keep the trans spinning without restriction.

Red Line D4 FULLY meets Dexron III requirements and even exceeds them by showing a 30% coefficient of friction improvement in cold and hot temps beyond conventional ATF. In the normal zone however, they are identical fluids as far as the Dexron III spec is concerned.

The "base" oil has absolutely nothing to do with the friction modifiers. The base oil only relates to thermal breakdown and it's effects on viscosity which in turn determine how the friction modifier bonds with the base oil.

So, from a purely fluid versus fluid standpoint, they are identical except that synthetic is more stable across the temperature band (just like Pat's Amsoil chart shows below).
http://www.amsoil.com/products/pics/atfchrt1.gif

Now, for people that had slippage. He said that this is common regardless of what fluid is put in after a complete system flush. If a trans has been run hard, the clutch material burns off (just like a brake pad) and the resulting particles remain in suspension in the fluid. As the clutch wears, these particles give a grit just like sandpaper that help the packs grab one another. When the system is flushed, the grit is removed. Now, the damaged packs will slip because the grit is gone! It has nothing to do with synthetic versus petro-based. He said it happens all the time on higher mileage cars with standard petro -> petro flushes.

Spaz's situation stumped him. He said he understood slipping post-flushing especially since the car has seen a supercharger and nitrous. But flushing synthetic out and petro back in should have yielded the same results unless a friction modifier was introduced (like B&M Trick Shift). This is just fluid with "built-in" grit to provide better plate adhesion. Considering SPAZ said "A secret non-synthetic blend", that is my guess! :thumbs:

His recommendation is this: Check the fluid and magnet. If the fluid is brown with no trace of pink/red or if there is metal on the magnet ... DO NOT FLUSH PERIOD! A pan drop change with either synthetic or petro will be the safe bet. Either that, or flush and add a friction modifier. For a car that has good fluid, a full flush with synthetic will enhance the transmission and provide better longevity and performance because the trans is less prone to slip and get hot when cold or hot (vs. conventional fluid).

I apologize for writing a book, but I think that makes sense according to all the conflicting information floating around. I am still waiting to hear back from a GM Powertrain Engineer, but like the Red Line guy said: They only test transmissions, we test oils!

I also confirmed this information with a GM Powertrain Release Engineer who actually was on the N-Body Team. He summed it up by saying as long as you use a Dexron III-approved oil, it doesn't matter what brand you put in.

After hearing all this positive response, I flushed and filled my own car with Red Line D4 Synthetic ATF. The car runs great! The shifts are more positive in the colder temps before the fluid reaches operating temps. It also seems to shift faster now as well. I also noticed trans fluid temps are 5-10 degrees cooler than before. So far, all of Red Line's claims have been backed-up! If you have been wanting to switch and are scared by the horror stories, use your own judgemnent on the condition of your trans or when in doubt, take it to a trans shop and get a fluid analysis done ... that is still a helluva lot cheaper than a rebuild!