No heat until up to operating temp, other syptoms, PLEASE HELP!! [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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dxtreme_85
12-02-2005, 09:53 AM
Ok, if this has been posted before, my bad. Let me see if I can describe exactly what my car is doing.
When the car is cold (has been able to sit, say overnight) And I start my car, I will not have heat unless I am moving at a decent amount of speed, or until the car gets up to operating temp. If it is not up to temp yet, and I come to a traffic light, the air coming out of the vents goes from warm to cold, until I start to move, or until the car heats up. Now, as the car nears 200*, it starts to warm up faster, until it passes 200, it will get up to about 205-210 and then drop back down to about 195. As soon as it starts to drop, I have constant heat. I have had two SES lights come on which I have cleared w/ my autotap, but they come back next time I drive. One was for low catalyst emissions, (which ****es me off b/c I have an O2 sim on the rear sensor) and the other was for low oil pressure. I can see that I have low oil pressure, as I have an aftermarket gauge. At idle, its about 20psi. But I don't have the factory oil press. switch installed, the one on the front that has to be removed to install the aftermarket gauge, so how can the vehicle monitor oil press? Is there another sensor??? I have checked the coolant, and the oil, but seem fine. No coolant light on the dash, just SES.

Anybody have any ideas????
I will probably take it in under extended warranty next week when I have time to not have a vehicle for a week or so. I just hope they don't pull any crap on me b/c of my mods.

Thanks for any and all help!
-Terry

hova82
12-02-2005, 10:09 AM
Warranty and Mods are like a fat kid eating a salad. I have owned cars where changing the air filter voided certain warranty coverages. I usually also put 19 or 20 inch rims on my cars and that voided some brake issues. When I lowered the car my suspension parts where not covered anymore. SO. Talk to a few more people before you go in there and realize you made mods to your car!

P.S. My answer to the dealer when they told me why it was bad to mod a car was "Well if you build a better care I wouldn't have too!"

A.

atc3434
12-02-2005, 10:21 AM
My car doesn't make much heat until about 150 degrees, then its decent from there. You won't get great heat at idle until its warmed up some. Sounds like the thermostat is cycling ok based it going to 205, and then back down, so I doubt thats your problem. I'm not sure you have a problem, it sounds like your just not getting heat when the car isn't warm.... nothing surprising there.

The oil pressure SES. Well, you removed the sensor, so thats probably the source of your problem right there. Car doesn't see any pressure because the sensor doesn't see any pressure. What the oil pressure read when you moving along down the road? 20psi might be ok for a hot idle, I'm not sure what the 3400 likes to run around, but I know my 350 would dip down that low when it was warm and idling.

coupe
12-02-2005, 10:21 AM
Hey Terry i just looked at your cardomain, not bad dude. Why is your girl not a member here? or is she?

This has got to be the first time ive heard of this problem from a GA. But from looking at your cardomain and your mods i dont think they will void your warranty because........ well......you dont really have any big mods or any that would cause problems like this.

dxtreme_85
12-02-2005, 12:52 PM
Well, in lieu of what I've read so far....

atc: The car used to idle around 25 at a hot idle. I know that I won't get heat until about 150, I'm not a novice when it comes to cars. (Not trying to be a a$$) The fact is that the car, even after 150, until after it cycles above 205 and then down again, will be warm while I am moving, then cold while I am stopped. After it cycles, it will be hot. I understand what you are saying about the whole no sensor, no pressure thing, except that I have never seen this light in the past, until now. I have had an oil pressure gauge in the car for about 2.5 years now; so why now am I getting a light? And I can visually see that I have low oil pressure as it has dropped from 25 -> 20 at idle, so I'm sure that there is a problem.....just have to figure out what it is.

coupe: Thanks for the compliments. I have since removed those tacky ass hood scoops. I've been meaning to take them off for a while, just never got around to it. I also built a center console on the floor in the back that holds my 12 disc pioneer cd changer...it has cup holders in it too :) I also redid my box and put a new amp in, just haven't gotten any pictures to update the site. I hope that they don't void it, if they do, I'm getting a prorated amount back on it, so that will help to pay for anything that needs done. As for my fiance, she is a member on here, just never on the boards. Her screen name is red_hot_gagt or something like that :) I don't remember. If she ever needs something, I just post for her. Her car is all stock, aside from a painted engine that looks like crap and needs done again. Didn't I sell you my old a/f ratio gauge, or oil pressure or voltmeter or something like that?? Autometer sport comp series? Can't remember if that was you or not. Anyways, thanks for teh reply.

Later

atc3434
12-02-2005, 01:01 PM
Well, in lieu of what I've read so far....

atc: The car used to idle around 25 at a hot idle. I know that I won't get heat until about 150, I'm not a novice when it comes to cars. (Not trying to be a a$$) The fact is that the car, even after 150, until after it cycles above 205 and then down again, will be warm while I am moving, then cold while I am stopped. After it cycles, it will be hot. I understand what you are saying about the whole no sensor, no pressure thing, except that I have never seen this light in the past, until now. I have had an oil pressure gauge in the car for about 2.5 years now; so why now am I getting a light? And I can visually see that I have low oil pressure as it has dropped from 25 -> 20 at idle, so I'm sure that there is a problem.....just have to figure out what it is.

coupe: Thanks for the compliments. I have since removed those tacky ass hood scoops. I've been meaning to take them off for a while, just never got around to it. I also built a center console on the floor in the back that holds my 12 disc pioneer cd changer...it has cup holders in it too :) I also redid my box and put a new amp in, just haven't gotten any pictures to update the site. I hope that they don't void it, if they do, I'm getting a prorated amount back on it, so that will help to pay for anything that needs done. As for my fiance, she is a member on here, just never on the boards. Her screen name is red_hot_gagt or something like that :) I don't remember. If she ever needs something, I just post for her. Her car is all stock, aside from a painted engine that looks like crap and needs done again. Didn't I sell you my old a/f ratio gauge, or oil pressure or voltmeter or something like that?? Autometer sport comp series? Can't remember if that was you or not. Anyways, thanks for teh reply.

Later

Ok, so that is weird. I guess I didn't have enough info to go by in your first post. That is weird. So, it sounds like no consistent heat until the thermostat has cycled once. How long is the warmup? Is it possible your thremostat doesn't close all the way until its been popped open once, or something to that effect? If it was hanging open on your cold start, you'd get symptoms like your talking about. It works normal once its warmed up and the thermostat has cycled, so the first place I'd look into is the thermostat.

The oil pressure thing is weird. Must be another sensor or something.

dxtreme_85
12-02-2005, 01:06 PM
Yeah, I know it is very weird. I've thought about the thermostat. It has the factory stat in it and I've got about 66,000 or so on the car. So maybe its bad, probably gonna replace with 180 anyways (been meaning to do that, keep it running a little cooler, I know I will have less heat in the winter and I'm fine with that ) Maybe I'll just plug in the old sensor this weekend, clear the code and see what happens.

atc3434
12-02-2005, 01:09 PM
Worth a shot. I'd do that thermostat and see what happens. 180 won't be that cold in the winter, I've got awesome heat by the time I'm at 150, I'm sure 180 will be fine. The gas mileage will suffer a tad in the cold, but so what.

Blk2001GAGT
12-04-2005, 01:52 PM
dxtreme 85, I have the same problem with my 2001 GAGT. It started out exactly the same way as yours did. However, when I drove it last night, I found out that I do not have any heat at all. It was just constant cold air blowing even after the thermostat has recycled or even when normal operating temp was reached. Plus, my temperature also goes up to 230 when stopped and idling for a while. It will then drop below 200 once I get going again. I have a new thermostat already (180 as well) and will be installing it as soon as I have a chance to do so. Hopefully that will solve our problem. If you get yours installed before I do, please advise. Thanks!!

Molson
12-04-2005, 01:59 PM
sounds like a stuck t-stat or a fan that is staying on.

Blk2001GAGT
12-04-2005, 02:05 PM
Molson, hopefully it is just a thermostat problem cuz that will be a relatively easy and cheap fix. Like dextreme_85's GA, mine has over 60K miles but not quite as much as his 66K, so maybe it's time for a new one.

89yotarollagts
12-05-2005, 08:26 PM
same issues only my temp gauge doesnt hop around like you are all saying ! mine doesnt go over 200 unless im hard on her i too have the 180 thermo and should install it as well..

00blackGT
12-06-2005, 10:29 AM
My car does not evn reach 200 stays between 100 and the 2nd line. So i never have heat. Its been doing this since i got it back from the shop on Friday, from the tranny beeing "Fixed".

dxtreme_85
12-06-2005, 03:32 PM
Had the whole weekend off...and never even touched the car..talk about lazy. I'm thinking i'll be taking it in under warranty this week. Still have to try plugging the old oil press sensor back in and clearing the codes, but i'm pretty sure that its not gonna work. Did have to fill up my power steering fluid this weekend....got really low and started making that awful "hey i'm low on PS fluid" noise. I kinda want to know where the fluid went...i don't have a puddle underneath my car.......damn grand am

89yotarollagts
12-06-2005, 06:44 PM
lol welp ! put my thermo in today and it wasnt as easy as i thought it would be !

the instructions on the mod's page here on GAGT are a lil wack ! first off you dont have to drain all your coolent outta your radiator !! GM did a stupid thing and put a plastic piece in the radiator your spose to twist half way and pull out with it... well from the mechanics experience i talked to said they break half the time and give you more problems then you began with... So i didnt do it !! simply removed the hose and let the coolent flow outta their (not much was lost)... Removing the air box was a snap... removing the top bolt wasnt to bad (try not to drop your socket) the bottom bolt however was a pain in the ass to get out !! it took me forever to get it out ! we tried everything we could get back their and it finally came... after this was out we couldnt remove the housing because the thermo was still sealed to it which was also kinda a pain but were able to pop it loose with a screw driver and get everything out... everything went back together alot smoother and overall i didnt loose to much coolent ! after all was said and done i really didnt notice any differance in temp.. it still site where my old one did no hotter no colder ? wont know if their was a diff in heat till later tonight.. Not a bad project to do in a warm garage but wouldnt recomend doing it unless your thermo NEEDs replacing

00blackGT
12-12-2005, 11:39 AM
Yea, I looked at mine and just took it to a shop. 150 bucks little more than i wanted to pay but I have HEAT Now and i am happy.

dxtreme_85
12-13-2005, 09:25 PM
Not sure why, but apparently, I was way low on coolant...odd; considering that I just checked it a few weeks ago and it was fine. Never saw a low coolant light either. Oh well, filled it up and I have heat now, just need to get it serviced for the low oil pressure, and now its leaking power steering fluid from somewhere....knew I should have sold this thing earlier this year when I had the chance.......

89yotarollagts
12-15-2005, 08:14 PM
when i replaced my thermo i topped it off too ! couple weeks (well last night) it jumped over 200* and the low coolent light came on After inspecting the thermo area i noticed it wasnt leaking Dunno why im loosing coolent ???

dxtreme_85
12-15-2005, 10:52 PM
Maybe its just working out air in the system???

coupe
12-16-2005, 06:09 AM
when i replaced my thermo i topped it off too ! couple weeks (well last night) it jumped over 200* and the low coolent light came on After inspecting the thermo area i noticed it wasnt leaking Dunno why im loosing coolent ???


First thing i would do is check your oil cap for a milky substance. Also take look around you LIM for seapage.

obiwan
12-29-2005, 11:00 PM
So I'm stuck in about the same situation. I have heat as long as I'm revving the engine. As soon as I stop the temp creeps up and the air goes cold. Once I start driving the temp shoots back down and I have heat again. But sometimes it wont and the temp climbs to the red while my air in the vents gets colder and colder. When it hits that point I stop and turn the car off. It did this to me tonight and makes me rather nervous.
When I pulled into my parking garage it was near the top of the gauge and I knew I was pushing my luck. Got into my spot and shut her off. I looked around and saw some anti freeze coming out of the overflow and it seemed like more came out of somewhere else on the passenger side of the motor. After letting it sit for 5 minutes I started it back up and looked around with a flash light. I couldn't see any leaks and the temp gauge would slowly climb up until I got in and revved the engine a bit. It would start to drop and the heat would return. I ran the car for about 20 minutes and by then it was running fine with no fluctuations and no leaking.

I've found if I let it sit and warm up for about 15 minutes I dont get the problem.
From what I see in here it could be just as simple as the thermostat? I also have a nasty grinding noise coming from the water pump every once in a while but it doesn't correspond to the temperature fluctuations.

89yotarollagts
01-10-2006, 11:54 AM
^^^ wow that sounds bad my problem still goes on but only when im hard on her (like spinin the tires for along period of time goin up a hill) (winter) she will go from 180* to about 210 and coolent goes everywhere(out of the overflow tank) i dont understand why it does this ? i thought this was supossed to help my performance yet everytime i use the performance of the car i end up hurting it

89yotarollagts
01-10-2006, 12:01 PM
First thing i would do is check your oil cap for a milky substance. Also take look around you LIM for seapage.


no milkyness noticed... my valve cover gaskets look like they are leakin though.. looks more like oil than Coolent ?

This car is messed up lol Imports 4 life lol

coupe
01-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Imports have their problems too so dont be fooled.
Funny that the valve covers are leakin, not a common thing for 3400's. So there is no moisture under your TB either?

89yotarollagts
01-10-2006, 02:46 PM
havnt checked the TB most is collecting down by the thermo but the seams around the thermo arent wet so it cant be leaking from their... everything seems to be coming from the valve covers im assuming

coupe
01-11-2006, 06:32 AM
havnt checked the TB most is collecting down by the thermo but the seams around the thermo arent wet so it cant be leaking from their... everything seems to be coming from the valve covers im assuming

Well yeah the thermo is under the TB, i would put my money on LIM leak.

fastdad1955
01-11-2006, 02:14 PM
Have either of you bled the air out of the system???

There is a brass fitting near the water pump on the front of the engine with a small bolt in it. If you back the bolt out it will open up and air will come out. I did this the first time I noticed my temp gauge flucuate and the system was full of coolant, and it fixed the problem. Then I had to replace the water pump since it was leaking from the back. Thought it was a leaking gasket but I noticed brown rust on the passenger side radiator core and engine. So I replaced the water pump.

Every time you have to replace a part in the cooling system it is a good idea to open this valve to release any air that might be in the system. All you need to do is run the engine to operating temp put a socket on it to open and leave it open until coolant starts to come out then re-tighten the valve and that should have all the air out.....

89yotarollagts
01-12-2006, 01:11 PM
^ could you get a picture of this fitting ? also has anyone else done this before ?