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GRocks10
12-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Hi everyone,

Get ready for a long long read.. but please if you're experienced with the Grand AM's engine, I please ask that you read it all to understand the whole story of whats happening and please offer me your advice.. I would seriously appreciate it more than anyone can even imagine and if you want to summarize it for cliffs - please do aswell to make it easier for someone to read and not go through it all.. here it is:

My 1999 Pontiac Grand AM SE 3.4 liter V6 cars engine currently does not turn on.. I had the LIM gasket with the whole coolant mixed with the oil that turned into a milky substance after my car had overheated, I had my EX MECHANIC fix the problems that always serviced my car for 2 years during the time that I've owned the car.. then when the car overheated and we figured out the car needed the new LIM gaskets and coolant flush, etc.. that is when he performed the job for me. He said that others would charge about $1200 to $1400 at the auto repair shops and he works for Pep Boys for 10 years now and he would do the work for me as a an outside thing.. he said he would charge me $700 to do the job.. I accepted. Car got fixed and problem repaired.. though a couple of times I had some minor problems He said that the car needed a new water pump and he said he'd replace it free of charge. He is no longer my mechanic because after talking to other mechanics that have their own mobile automotive business, they would tell me that the mechanic whos serviced me ripped me off that the job that was done wasn't something that should cost this much.. I got this advice from 3 different mechanics now. I called my ex mechanic and he would not reimburse me nor budge for anything and told me he does not want to deal with me again.. anyhow, ever since then.. everything has been good with the car UNTIL..

( ^^ To read what I went through with full info of the EX mechanic from above of the LIM gasket.. here is the thread to read whenever you'd like if you want to get more of the jist even though I'm pretty much saying the whole thing here: http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54392 ^^ )


Now, 3 months LATER and 1,865 miles of little driving - My car started giving me problems when I've been driving.. I would notice the car seems to hesitate like its ABOUT to shut off and sometimes when I would turn the wheel all the way on both directions, the car WOULD shut off....

Anyhow, evetually I thought it was my battery that was going bad so I went and replaced it with a good quality expensive $100 battery with a real nice replacement warranty on it. I got brand new terminal tips and cut the old ends of the wires that were corrosided and fix that and attached it to the new battery.. got new bolts and tighted it up.. all good? I started the car.. yeah, guess what? Same problem.. car would last alittle longer now and not shut off when I would turn the wheel all the way but now it would shut off on me if it would stay on for more than say 10 minutes.. so I had it towed over to Firestone.. the guys checked it out and FOUND OUT some news that I've noticed for awhile that I've been experiencing this problem myself.. I realized my gas milage has been terrible, I'm getting like 200 miles per tank.. around 190 miles my fuel light pops on.. so I had my new mechanic put in what I believe is a NEW fuel pressure regulator, though the one I received from GMPartsDirect.com DOES NOT look new but looked to be in better condition then mine but not new at all...

I decided to go ahead and have it installed along with a brand new belt because my old one was sqeeling abit from 3 months ago when I had the LIM gaskets replaced from coolant falling on the belt.. so anyhow, you think everything is fixed and there should BE NO WAY that I should have problems after putting all this money into my "baby"....? YOU'RE WRONG!!!

Finally, the job was done and I turned on the car.. everything turned on great and the car actually lasted so much more longer than usual HOWEVER I did feel that same hesitation again like the car would die but it would just keep on going.. evetually, I got to a family members place and when I went to go home later and turn the car on - that is when the car would not start.. I had it towed back home and my new mechanic came by who installed the fuel pressure regulator and belt.. he is ASE certified and warranties his work.. anyway, he got the car to turn over a couple of times but it would make this really bad grunking noise and then if you didn't keep pressing the gas - it would just SHUT OFF.. this is how its been.. the starter seems to work fine and gives enough juice.. other than that, no luck.

Someone who has been on top of all the maintance like myself with this car only to continue having problems like this.. I really honestly don't know how to feel but feel cheated, confused, and most of all violated that all this money has gone in and the car is in fantastic condition to end up having this type of engine problems. My new mechanic can't quite figure out the problem.. he suggest that after having the LIM gasket problem, that I should just replace the engine but that is way to costly and I'm just giving up with this car that I just want to sell it.. but I don't think I can get anywhere near what its worth now that it won't even start.. can SOMEONE please offer advice? after putting all this money to get it going again I REALLY want to keep my car and use it and now that the fuel pressure regulator is installed - I WANT to see the great differences with gas milage!! NOW, I feel like I've been let down. The car has only 79.045 miles... and its a 1999 Pontiac Grand AM SE.. with less than 12K miles a year driving.. and handled with care, how can I have this much problems? What would you recommend can be a fix?

The mechanic says he suggest that I get in touch with the ex mechanic and tell him the problems but I know that guy doesn't want to hear me complaining again about my car and after ripping me off $700.. my current merchanic says that the ex one ripped me off because he would've only charged me $200 for the work that was done from what he could see and what I described of what was what I think was done.. he did notice the LIM gaskets indeed replaced and mentioned that the work done of parts would be no more than $90 and the rest would be labor which would make the WHOLE total $200.. anyhow, I doubt my ex mechanic that I thought would never do me wrong won't budge to refund some of it.. if anything, the current mechanic says that the NEW WATER PUMP installed was a lie.. he said it was sillocone type substance to hold a small leak.. I feel cheated and lied to.. but most of all, I'm now starting to wonder if my car is a LEMON.. does this sound possible? Can I do anything? Any warranty left for the car being under 80K? I bought it used though.. so I don't know if thats still valid. Also, we had the ODO reader hooked up.. the car shows no known symptoms and the check engine light does NOT go on.. everything electrical wise works great.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

atc3434
12-09-2005, 04:06 PM
Clunking and grinding. My bet is you did lots of damage internally to the motor when you had the first LIM gasket go bad. Coolant in the oil creates engine damage really fast. You overheated it, you had the milky oil, I bet thats when you hurt it, and its never been right since. Get a mechanic that really knows whats going on with it to tell you wants up, and what it'll cost to fix. I suppose you can blame the LIM leak, but not keeping tabs on a car thats known for that one problem... well, the jury is out on that one.

coupe
12-09-2005, 04:23 PM
Well a LIM leak can run about $500-$900 depending on your area. $200 is WAY cheap and tells me this new mechanic isnt all that confident either. Where it all went wrong was when you didnt get more than 1 quote. My rule is call minimum of 3 places and get prices.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 04:49 PM
Well a LIM leak can run about $500-$900 depending on your area. $200 is WAY cheap and tells me this new mechanic isnt all that confident either. Where it all went wrong was when you didnt get more than 1 quote. My rule is call minimum of 3 places and get prices.


I know its alot to read but you didn't read the book I basically posted above. I paid $700 for the LIM gasket and coolant flush, oil change and filter, other misc things for that price with my ex mechanic. The new mechanic said he would've done the same job for $200 because hes one of these mechanics that are sick of people getting ripped off by big auto repair companies charging an arm and a leg to get work done on a car that doesn't exactly take as LONG as they put it out to be..

Anyhow, he wasn't the only guy I got a quote from.. when I had the LIM situation repaired.. I had taken it to Tire Kingdom which you can read all about in the other thread I linked in my original post and then I posted that thread on here to get all of your advice which was just fantastic and then decided it was right to go with my ex mechanic to do the job since people like yourself said it cost between $500 and $900, and I was getting charged right in the middle at $700 with the ex mechanic that took care of me for 2 years.

Now I'm worst off 3 months later with the car working just dandy and then out of no where these problems arise again and MORE money was put into it to fix what could've been the problems only to realize I just spent money on good parts for no reason. Wonderful..

badboy2451
12-09-2005, 04:50 PM
lemon = returned to dealership 3 times to have the same part serviced

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 04:56 PM
What do you guys recommend I do.. do you think if I got in touch with my EX Mechanic.. and explain to him what happened, that he'd help me in anyway? I just don't know anymore and I'm just at the verge of taking this car to a dealer and trade it in for a brand new car and pay the difference.. which I doubt I'd get anywhere near what I expected now that car won't even run.. or how about parting the WHOLE thing out? Whats an estimate I can probably make once that time consuming process is done?

coupe
12-09-2005, 05:07 PM
I know its alot to read but you didn't read the book I basically posted above. I paid $700 for the LIM gasket and coolant flush, oil change and filter, other misc things for that price with my ex mechanic. The new mechanic said he would've done the same job for $200 because hes one of these mechanics that are sick of people getting ripped off by big auto repair companies charging an arm and a leg to get work done on a car that doesn't exactly take as LONG as they put it out to be..

Anyhow, he wasn't the only guy I got a quote from.. when I had the LIM situation repaired.. I had taken it to Tire Kingdom which you can read all about in the other thread I linked in my original post and then I posted that thread on here to get all of your advice which was just fantastic and then decided it was right to go with my ex mechanic to do the job since people like yourself said it cost between $500 and $900, and I was getting charged right in the middle at $700 with the ex mechanic that took care of me for 2 years.

Now I'm worst off 3 months later with the car working just dandy and then out of no where these problems arise again and MORE money was put into it to fix what could've been the problems only to realize I just spent money on good parts for no reason. Wonderful..

Yes i know. I paid $780 for my LIM. That included a tranny flush...well....2 of them. A LIM is an all day task. Sure its easy but is labor intensive. Another problem is you shouldnt take your car in for a LIM leak repair to a shop who's name is Tire Kingdom, i would have to assume they spcialize in tires. I got 3 quotes for mine from 3 shops that specialize in engine repair. What happened is your ex mechanic didnt know what he was doing. If you could get it done at another shop and get a warranty at the same price on the work why didnt you? You had a guy do it as a side job who works for pep boys therefore you get no warranty or anything to guarantee the work. Ya dun focked up.

coupe
12-09-2005, 05:10 PM
lemon = returned to dealership 3 times to have the same part serviced

I dont believe thats the case here.

coupe
12-09-2005, 05:20 PM
I just read your other thread.
You fried your motor, plain and simple. Dude that coolant light had to come on for quite awhile before you where totaly out of coolant.

02andahalfgt
12-09-2005, 06:14 PM
Clunking and grinding. My bet is you did lots of damage internally to the motor when you had the first LIM gasket go bad. Coolant in the oil creates engine damage really fast. You overheated it, you had the milky oil, I bet thats when you hurt it, and its never been right since. Get a mechanic that really knows whats going on with it to tell you wants up, and what it'll cost to fix. I suppose you can blame the LIM leak, but not keeping tabs on a car thats known for that one problem... well, the jury is out on that one.

You have your answer right here, and also what Rand added. No need to contact the other mechanic, you did serious damage by driving it with the coolant/oil sludge c0cktail. End of (long) story.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 06:42 PM
Yes i know. I paid $780 for my LIM. That included a tranny flush...well....2 of them. A LIM is an all day task. Sure its easy but is labor intensive. Another problem is you shouldnt take your car in for a LIM leak repair to a shop who's name is Tire Kingdom, i would have to assume they spcialize in tires. I got 3 quotes for mine from 3 shops that specialize in engine repair. What happened is your ex mechanic didnt know what he was doing. If you could get it done at another shop and get a warranty at the same price on the work why didnt you? You had a guy do it as a side job who works for pep boys therefore you get no warranty or anything to guarantee the work. Ya dun focked up.

The quote I got from Tire Kingdom was almost $2500 for the LIM repair and I listed everything the manager there wanted to charge me in that other thread.. I still have the estimate of those charges which was pure BS.. the ex mechanic of mine did the job for the LIM repair after I got the estimate from Tire Kingdom and got everyones input in that other thread.. THEN, I had my ex mechanic do the job when I got the OK from all of you that I was getting a fair deal with my guy.. the car was running great once it was fixed except for needing a new water pump which I found out wasn't replaced but used a silicone type substance and its been running great ever since! This is been a good 3 months now that my car has been running with no problems.. its just as of recently when my car was having problems starting with an older battery and corrosided battery terminals attached.. figured that would fix the prob, got it replaced along with a new battery and nothing.. then had it checked out when it started hesitiating.. found out that my Fuel Pressure Regulator was leaking oil and figured that could def be the reason why it had problems starting correctly.. you could smell the fuel when you would start the car and see the fuel leak out of the fuel pressure regulator.. took it to Firestone and the mechanics there recommended a new fuel pressure regulator.. my current mechanic is the guy that works at Firestone.. that didn't fix the problem and you know what? The car was atleast running before he fixed it but would shut off after say 10 min.. now after getting the new fuel pressure regulator.. it turned on fine after being just installed and when I got to my destination which was about a 15 minute ride.. shut off the car and turned it on again 30 minutes later.. and thats when I've had problems ever since.

Just for everyones info.. the LIM HAS BEEN REPAIRED. Could this be so soon that its related to my problem and if so, do you recommend I talk to my ex mechanic about it? If anything, if he has a heart and realizes he took $700 from me just 3 months ago and now the car doesn't work.. I basically paid $233 per month to drive a car that I ALREADY OWN plus insurance payments! Money doesn't grow out of trees ya know! This guy owes to make it right atleast if anything I say.. what to do!?

I just want my car running fine again.. its only been driven 1865 miles in 3 months!!

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 06:51 PM
You have your answer right here, and also what Rand added. No need to contact the other mechanic, you did serious damage by driving it with the coolant/oil sludge c0cktail. End of (long) story.

The other mechanic that you mention makes it sound as if I never got the job done and I continued driving the car the whole time.. actually, the car was fixed when it overheated by my "other mechanic aka the EX mechanic".. he fixed the car $700 later.. car has been great ever since - problem with car just started now 3 months later out of the blue and you would've never expected any of this.. I STILL don't think this has to do with the LIM..

Could it be possible when the new mechanic installed my fuel pressure regulator, is it possible that he didn't do a good job installing it and didn't put a plug of some sort back in the right place and this could be why the car won't turn over? Atleast it did and stayed running before he fixed it but it hesitated abit - thats why I got the fuel pressure regulator fixed after realizing that it was leaking fuel.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 06:54 PM
Btw.. the ex mechanic who did my LIM repair job has worked for Pep Boys for 10 years. If anything, he was the one who always serviced my car throughout two years and did nothing but great work.. its now a surprisement three months later having these problems after only driving 1865 miles.. its very odd.

02andahalfgt
12-09-2005, 07:00 PM
By the way your story sounds you still drove it at least some time with coolant in the oil, potentially doing serious harm to the internals of the engine. Regardless of when it was fixed or by who.
But if you're so worried, your best bet at this point would be to take it to (I hate to say this..) a dealership, have it looked at by an actual GM certified mechanic. You don't have to have them do any work on it, just tell you what the problem is.

LukeD
12-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Looking at the story a few times I think it actually may not be engine damage. If he did serious engine damage with coolent and oil, that car NEVER would have been the same. In his case it was fixed for 3 months with no problems. Hesitation could have to do with clogged injectors or some fuel related issue. Go to the dealership or repair place or somewhere where they can do a test and maybe clean of the fuel delivery.

Also I don't think your ex-mechanic ripped you off, if he knew what he was doing and repaired the LIM gaskets correctly. The guy saying that he would have done it for $200 either does not know what is involved or he is VERY VERY good friends with you.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 08:11 PM
Looking at the story a few times I think it actually may not be engine damage. If he did serious engine damage with coolent and oil, that car NEVER would have been the same. In his case it was fixed for 3 months with no problems. Hesitation could have to do with clogged injectors or some fuel related issue. Go to the dealership or repair place or somewhere where they can do a test and maybe clean of the fuel delivery.

Also I don't think your ex-mechanic ripped you off, if he knew what he was doing and repaired the LIM gaskets correctly. The guy saying that he would have done it for $200 either does not know what is involved or he is VERY VERY good friends with you.


This is the only REAL reply that I have read through that I can actually say that I believe has to do with what I am currently going through.. I already went through the whole LIM ordeal and many many of you have gone through the same thing and fixed your cars between what I ended up paying abit higher or abit lower but either way, you got the job fixed and now what you expect is a good running vehicle.. I honestly believe that in this situation it does not have to do with the LIM.. my coolant is still infact there and nothing is leaking from those areas or would give question that its that right now.. if anything, I believe this has to do with the fuel delivery and I think it can be what I believe is called the CATs that are clogged ( is this right? ) and I believe I read on the owners manual that this is warrantied under GM till 80K miles.. which I haven't hit yet, knock on wood.. I'm at 79.045!.. I mean, the fuel pressure regulator was leaking for goodness sakes and that was fixed.. maybe that screwed something up that needs more fixing.. if anything, I believe I as much as I don't want to.. will take it to a Pontiac Dealership and have them look at it.. what would you guys estimate that to cost and also, do I give them the background of work thats already been done or just tell them what is currently happening with having replaced the fuel pressure regulator, belt replaced, new battery and terminals? And telling them how the car is currently running? Thanks again!

mcgrady
12-09-2005, 08:41 PM
First off, any tech that uses the term "ripped off" in reference to another tech is not trustworthy himself.

This "tech" that quoted you $200 for the LIM job is a person to stay away from. He's obviously not done one of these before.

Has your tech hooked up a fuel pressure guage and monitored the fuel pressure at all since the car quit?

I'd say either the cranshaft bearings caved after being ruined by the coolant in the engine oil from the sound you describe.

I had a guy come in with a Montana yesterday wondering where his coolant was going. The oil was full of it and has been for awhile. I told him to go to an engine rebuild shop and get a new engine because if we put the intake gaskets in, he's wasting his money.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 10:03 PM
First off, any tech that uses the term "ripped off" in reference to another tech is not trustworthy himself.

This "tech" that quoted you $200 for the LIM job is a person to stay away from. He's obviously not done one of these before.

Has your tech hooked up a fuel pressure guage and monitored the fuel pressure at all since the car quit?

I'd say either the cranshaft bearings caved after being ruined by the coolant in the engine oil from the sound you describe.

I had a guy come in with a Montana yesterday wondering where his coolant was going. The oil was full of it and has been for awhile. I told him to go to an engine rebuild shop and get a new engine because if we put the intake gaskets in, he's wasting his money.

The LIM job was already done 3 months ago for $700 with my ex mechanic.. not this other tech, who said would charge me $200.. I don't believe he is experienced either with the LIM situation that its a very common problem with our Grand AMs.

Anyhow, like I said.. car has been running great with no problems alittle over 3 months now and then this happens out of the blue.. like I said, very odd. So.. I'm thinking my best bet is this has to do with fuel delivery and I'm planning to go to the GM dealership tomorrow and have them figure out what is wrong by a certified GM mechanic.. another thing, while going through this process.. SHOULD I explain that I had the LIM gaskets replaced and tell them about the TSB thats out on it? You know.. if GM never made these faulity gaskets I would never have ANY of these problems.. CAN'T they take some blame in this and cover me the work now needed to fix this? Its already enough I shelled out $700 bucks.. geez, what more do they want from an honest person just trying to keep their car in tip top shape that doesn't drive it alot!? I mean seriously...

LukeD
12-09-2005, 10:56 PM
The LIM problem should have been a recall but since they didn't, they arn't going to cover anything if the car is out of warrenty. I would just take it in and describe the problem. You will pay for them to look at it but at least they have tools to properly diagnose the problem.

Like I said before. If you messed up your engine permanantly with the LIM problem, it would NEVER work right after that. Since you had several months of it working fine, it looks like an unrelated problem. Look into fuel delivery, get them to check that. I don't see why you would have to bring in the LIM gaskets, just let them run their tests. :thumbs:

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 11:14 PM
Do I have to make an appointment? Considering I will need to have it towed there.. but I believe the truck that I ended up buying might have a towing package but not everything to hook the car up so I might look into getting kit before calling up a tow truck to have it towed.. my road side service program is scheduled to finish quite soon so if anything I really need to get this done ASAP... either way, what can I expect to pay to have them check this out? Thank you

LukeD
12-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Yeah you are going to need to make an appointment. Also I haven't heard of them making house calls so you will probably need to tow it over there. I would recommend using that truck you may get or borrowing someones, along with renting something to roll the front wheels onto to tow with (costs between $30-40 for the day usually) or for less hassle you can always try a tow truck depending on the cost and distance. I'd say you are looking at about $100-150 for them to diagnose it.

GRocks10
12-09-2005, 11:54 PM
Yeah you are going to need to make an appointment. Also I haven't heard of them making house calls so you will probably need to tow it over there. I would recommend using that truck you may get or borrowing someones, along with renting something to roll the front wheels onto to tow with (costs between $30-40 for the day usually) or for less hassle you can always try a tow truck depending on the cost and distance. I'd say you are looking at about $100-150 for them to diagnose it.

I'm thinking $100-150 is crazy to diagnose the problem.. all they will probably do is attach some type of machine that will read whats wrong with it and have someone try to crank the car over to hear the problem and figure out what it is.. nothing that wouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes to do.. you see, this is why I have mechanics that do "side work" for me outside of the big auto repair businesses when they're off work so I get a big discount break that still cost alot of money but is alot better than getting screwed up the ass with a 10 foot pole by the giant corperation that doesn't even pay their mechanics a fair peice of the pie. And this is one of the main reasons why alot of people end up having more problems when they leave the shop after getting alot of work done.. because unhappy mechanics getting ****ty paid while doing big jobs that should land them more money which makes this business filled with alot of people that are very dishonest with whats wrong with their car by unsuspecting vehicle owners.. its a sad reality, it REALLY is and I hate it.

Malaclypse
12-10-2005, 01:45 AM
I'm thinking $100-150 is crazy to diagnose the problem.. all they will probably do is attach some type of machine that will read whats wrong with it and have someone try to crank the car over to hear the problem and figure out what it is.. nothing that wouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes to do.. you see, this is why I have mechanics that do "side work" for me outside of the big auto repair businesses when they're off work so I get a big discount break that still cost alot of money but is alot better than getting screwed up the ass with a 10 foot pole by the giant corperation that doesn't even pay their mechanics a fair peice of the pie. And this is one of the main reasons why alot of people end up having more problems when they leave the shop after getting alot of work done.. because unhappy mechanics getting ****ty paid while doing big jobs that should land them more money which makes this business filled with alot of people that are very dishonest with whats wrong with their car by unsuspecting vehicle owners.. its a sad reality, it REALLY is and I hate it.

This is a good example of someone's un-informed opinion. I get roughly 1/3 of what the dealership charges for labor. When you consider the huge overhead a dealer faces, that's a large chunk. I get paid to be efficient. Taking a job that pays 3.8 hours under warranty and having it fixed correctly in 30 minutes is what I do and how I make money. I only over-quote aftermarket warranties..and I LOVE my job (humungo tool bill aside).

Typical diagnosis = 1 hr = $80 + tax. My prognosis = clogged catalytic converter. If your new mechanic couldn't figure out to hook up an O2 sensor adapter and a pressure gauge to the exhaust manifold to check exhaust back pressure (shouldn't go above 0 psi at any time) then you're better off going to the dealer.

Converters can become clogged after repairs as involved as LIM gasket replacements because of brake cleaner and dirt being dumped on top of the valves during repair. Cats are also warrantied to 8 years/80k.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 02:00 AM
This is a good example of someone's un-informed opinion. I get roughly 1/3 of what the dealership charges for labor. When you consider the huge overhead a dealer faces, that's a large chunk. I get paid to be efficient. Taking a job that pays 3.8 hours under warranty and having it fixed correctly in 30 minutes is what I do and how I make money. I only over-quote aftermarket warranties..and I LOVE my job (humungo tool bill aside).

Typical diagnosis = 1 hr = $80 + tax. My prognosis = clogged catalytic converter. If your new mechanic couldn't figure out to hook up an O2 sensor adapter and a pressure gauge to the exhaust manifold to check exhaust back pressure (shouldn't go above 0 psi at any time) then you're better off going to the dealer.

Converters can become clogged after repairs as involved as LIM gasket replacements because of brake cleaner and dirt being dumped on top of the valves during repair. Cats are also warrantied to 8 years/80k.

I should've said that the general auto repair businesses such as Pep Boys, Firestone, etc.. that type of places don't get a good cut off the labor charges so alot of these guys like to to "outside work" to compensate by giving people like me even better pricing while getting the job done the same like at the shop.. but I do understand what you're saying.. afterall, you work at the dealership which is the main place that overcharges for any OEM part about 5 times over what you can get it elsewhere or is just crazy what they mark those things up for something that should cost anywhere near relistic wise.. they probably can pay their techs so well just for part sales alone... but seriously with everything aside, I do thank you for your advice.... you guys are atleast know what you're doing as far as I'm concerned since you deal with GM's all the time mainly. You obviously should know what is wrong with something but your charges are downright crazy usually which is why I perfer to go somewhere like Firestone.. I mean look at what someone mentioned above.. I will have to look forward to paying $100-150 for diagnoses for my cars current problem.. that is just crazy. Plus the fact that it needs to be towed over which is more cost on my part. :(

You mentioned though that its $80 plus tax and you believe its the clogged catalytic converter so I shouldn't have problems getting this replaced free of charge under the warranty since my car is at 79,045 and is under 8 years old.. should I just say straight that I know the problem is the CATs are clogged and I want the warranty work done?

Thank you - what would I do without you fine people.. everyone is included in what I'm saying.. thanks so much.

Malaclypse
12-10-2005, 03:46 AM
I -believe- its the cat. Without looking at the vehicle myself this is my best guess based on the description you've given. Diagnosing cars over the internet is very much hit-or-miss because I'm not there to feel or hear what the car is doing.

As for OEM part pricing? You're paying extra for the warranty and a higher quality part to begin with. Not saying that I haven't seen Delco parts fail right out of the box, but 95% of the time the parts work great and last for at least 3 years (gaskets excluded). That says alot when you consider people have replaced AutoZone alternators every three months and consider the lifetime warranty a "value" because it saves them money but it costs them time. I know exactly what my time is worth... so I pay extra to save myself the time of replacing faulty parts.

My suggestion is to eat the tow bill or rent the dolley mentioned earlier and prepare to pay the diagnostic fee. This way you either A) get your catalytic converter replaced under emissions warranty for free, or B) get an exact diagnosis of what's going on with your vehicle that you can take to your mechanic and have him replace the parts.

Don't suggest that you think its anything. Play dumb.

And don't be afraid to make friends with a few dealer techs.. we like side work just as much as the next guy.

LukeD
12-10-2005, 11:11 AM
I -believe- its the cat.

I would go with this guy's suggestion. I just threw that injector idea out there but he sounds like he's had a lot more experience than me. I tossed out the $100-150 idea because around here it's close to $100 and sometimes for various jobs there may be other minor costs involved so I didn't want you to be shocked if it was $150. Usually $80-100 fee is about right depending on your area.

Whatever the case, it is worth at least the diagnosis. If you can get the hook up on a new cat that's cool but I would definately suggest at least going to the dealership or somewhere where they have equipment to find out whatever it turns out to be. Side mechanics are cool to have but often times they don't have the equiptment needed to properly diagnose a problem.

Hope it goes well for you. :thumbs:

AaronGTR
12-10-2005, 02:00 PM
I agree, you may have damaged the motor if you were driving too long with the LIM gasket problem. If the coolant got low and the engine over heated, and/or if the oil was contaminated, you could have internal damage. There should have been no reason to replace the fuel pressure regulator for any of the problems you were having, thats for sure. They almost never go bad. Usually it's a clogged fuel filter or bad fuel pump if you're having fuel problems. Pre-2001 cars had a fuel pump problem and GM made a re-designed fuel pump unit to fix the problem. If you've never replaced yours that could be why the car isn't starting (the old ones can go bad at any time). There's no way to be sure without seeing it in person. You probably didn't need to replace the battery either. Once the engine is started, it runs off the alternator, and a battery problem wouldn't cause the issues you described with the motor wanting to stall.

I agree with malaclypse too. Could also be a problem witht the cat. I think the biggest problem was taking your car to the "side job" mechanics. Like they say, you get what you pay for. Yes, dealerships charge more, and true they don't always fix things right... but on average they do a better job than generic mechanic shops, and most importantly they are more familiar with your car since they work on the same brand car all day. The dealership has higher overhead and use better parts so of course they have to charge more. I've seen the quality and durability difference between OEM parts and aftermarket OEM replacements many times. Thats where the price difference comes from, and I'll take the OEM part every time. Bottom line is, what costs you more? Getting it repaired correctly once... or getting it repaired three times by different incompetent mechanics?

Jason E
12-10-2005, 02:22 PM
Dude, with all due respect, stop bellyaching and get the damn car to a dealership already!!!!

You get what you pay for. Something like an LIM I wouldn't bring anywhere BUT a dealer. Some here will disagree, but if you're going to have the car for a long time, and value having the work done right, I would do it.

Case in point: my fiance has the '99 Grand Am SE listed in my sig. It has a 2.4, and I know the water pump is on borrowed time with 70k. When it goes, its going to a dealer...its a pretty involved process.

I've worked for a Pontiac dealer for over 5 years. You'd be amazed how many "side jobs" end up here because some ass messed a person's car up. In the end, you get what you pay for. 15 minutes with a GM ASE tech, and you'll have your problem. I'd buy either the crank bearing idea, or maybe even the cat.

Hope its not the crank, for your sake. And next time an idiot light comes on in your car, check it out!!!!!!!!!!!

DrFabulous
12-10-2005, 02:26 PM
The dealer is not always the best choice. I've had mine in there before and it's been called a Grand Prix at least 3 times.... and I'm supposed to trust the guy under the hood? No thanks. Nothing beats getting some buddies and doing some of the work yourself. You learn the most, and save the most.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 02:45 PM
I'll keep you guys updated on whats going on.. thanks again for all the advice and info ESPECIALLY from Malaclypse and LukeD.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 02:55 PM
And next time an idiot light comes on in your car, check it out!!!!!!!!!!!

I DID check it out.. my mother had it the first time it overheated on her.. when the coolant light came on for me I went ahead and would load it up with more coolant.. I never knew about the LIM gasket at the time, who would've ever thought GM would make such a faulty LIM gaskets that would be such a drastic fix that would detroy your engine that it wouldn't have a recall on it.. instead I HAVE to deal with the crap of something that I've kept on TOP of with maintaining only to figure something that should've never went out happen.. anyhow, when the car overheated on my mother - SHE restarted the car dropped her friends home and came home asap.. I went the next day to take it to the shop when it did the same thing to me.. I then evetually had it towed and got the LIM gasket replacement done.. NO PROBLEMS FOR 3 MONTHS SINCE THEN!!!! Get this through your head!!! I had it checked out and fixed THREE MONTHS AGO.. I'm not currently going through the LIM situation for goodness sakes and I really wished I didn't mention it to all of you so you could just give me your info based on what my current problems are. So thank you to those that have REALLY helped and read.. but I can understand if you overlooked alot of certain details because I type way to much!

atc3434
12-10-2005, 03:21 PM
Ok, so what you just said was that you would just load it up with coolant when the light would come on for low coolant. Did it ever occur to you to figure out where the coolant was going? Hmm, its not on the ground, where else could it be. Maybe going into the engine, contaminating the oil. So you really don't know how long you were driving on contaminated oil. Then you overheated it a couple times, your mom, and then you. Thats a lot of abuse to ask for from an engine, espeically one with aluminum parts that won't tolerate overheating.

LukeD
12-10-2005, 03:34 PM
When my gaskets had a leak, at first it was just an external leak and I constantly checked the oil to make sure. When it finally leaked inside I didn't overheat my car. I came out and saw a pool of coolent on the ground from when I had turned my engine off a few hours before, it had gushed out the overflow hose. I immediatly checked the oil and found the mayonnaise in the oil. I didn't turn it on again till I had the tow trailer in front of it and then it was only for 30 seconds to get it on.

It is easy to see how you could have done major engine damage to driving it like that but the thing that gets me is that once you did the damage, your engine should be toast and never be the same. How could it work fine for 3 months? That's a lot of driving.

atc3434
12-10-2005, 04:10 PM
When my gaskets had a leak, at first it was just an external leak and I constantly checked the oil to make sure. When it finally leaked inside I didn't overheat my car. I came out and saw a pool of coolent on the ground from when I had turned my engine off a few hours before, it had gushed out the overflow hose. I immediatly checked the oil and found the mayonnaise in the oil. I didn't turn it on again till I had the tow trailer in front of it and then it was only for 30 seconds to get it on.

It is easy to see how you could have done major engine damage to driving it like that but the thing that gets me is that once you did the damage, your engine should be toast and never be the same. How could it work fine for 3 months? That's a lot of driving.

Anybody thats read the whole original post can see the signs of internal engine damage. The car was driven for an indetermined amount of time with coolant in the oil. Its was overheated a few times. Then the car wouldn't run strong, and would quit out after a while. It makes grinding and clunking sounds now when cranked. Its gets rediculously bad mileage. You need to hold the throttle open to keep it turning over. Sounds like an engine that keeps trying to lock up when its destoryed bearings get warm enough.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 04:47 PM
Anybody thats read the whole original post can see the signs of internal engine damage. The car was driven for an indetermined amount of time with coolant in the oil. Its was overheated a few times. Then the car wouldn't run strong, and would quit out after a while. It makes grinding and clunking sounds now when cranked. Its gets rediculously bad mileage. You need to hold the throttle open to keep it turning over. Sounds like an engine that keeps trying to lock up when its destoryed bearings get warm enough.

No no.. you have it wrong. The car was driven as usual 3 months ago and then all the sudden the coolant light would come on here and there and you would notice coolant missing on the ground.. so naturally I thought it was a leak and would continue to fill it with more coolant.. never thinking that the LIM gasket would even become a problem until I researched out the coolant leaking situation right here on the board and came across the LIM situation and realized that this is a common problem more than I knew, so as I had the car filled up with coolant the light would sometimes go on.. all this was during a small period of driving that I would fill the coolant up and then when I noticed it happened more than once, I read up on here and during the time I was learning about the problem is when my mother took the car out that one time and it finally redlined and overheated on her.. she shut it down and restarted about 5-10 minutes later to take her friend home and drove back.. told me the news and I went ahead to take it the next day to the repair shop.. then found out they wanted $2500 to fix it just before it overheated again while I DROVE it there but I didnt get there so I had it towed.. came here, posted what they wanted to charge - everyone mentioned in the other thread that those charges was BS - I told the my about my ex mechanic would charge me $700 - you guys said it was a fair deal.. I did it with him.. the rest is history! The car worked fine with no signs of anything to do with the LIM situation in the passed 3 months.. which still makes me think this problem has nothing to do with it but more over with fuel delivery not going through enough.. I can only imagine and hope its the CATs that are clogged and my emissions warranty will cover that.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 04:52 PM
Btw, WHY isn't there a recall on the LIM gaskets? Its already proved that once you get this fixed that it can yet again happen AND it further proves that no matter what symptoms I go through with my car not running properly - I can expect any of you guys to jump on me saying its dealing with the LIM.. so WHY did I pay $700 to fix something that would evetually screw me over again either way? HOW CAN THERE NOT BE A RECALL ON THIS OR SOME SORT OF WARRANYT TO FIX THIS FREE OF CHARGE? This is unreal.. if I had ever suspected this problem, you can bet your ASS I would've never bought a Grand AM..

What the saddest thing of all is.. if I never knew about this fantastic community.. there is no way in hell I would know all the things that I know.. I would be completely clueless about the LIM.. I would've probably believe whatever those sons of bitches said at Tire Kingdom and I would've ended up probably just screwing myself over. Unbelievable!

atc3434
12-10-2005, 04:57 PM
So, explain the clunking and grinding sounds you hear when its cranked now. Or it running for a while, and then quitting. A clogged cat isn't going to prevent the car from running, or cause it to stall. It will hurt performance. If it were a fuel delivery problem, its unlikely that it would just get worse and then stop working, then work again later. I think your best bet is to find a quality mechanic. We can sit here and try and figure this out for you all day long, and come up with some good ideas, but you need somebody that really knows there stuff to actually look and listen to the car, and figure out whats up. I hate to say it, but the dealer might be your best bet if you don't have an independant mechanic that you can trust.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 05:59 PM
The car is going in Monday when they open again is what the person on the phone said from Pontiac.

Another thing, can someone please read post # 36 and provide some feedback in that area please? Thank you

02andahalfgt
12-10-2005, 06:28 PM
this is why I have mechanics that do "side work" for me

And this is why your car doesn't work.

Dude, with all due respect, stop bellyaching and get the damn car to a dealership already!!!!

:werd Call a dealership and explain the problem over the phone, maybe they can get a feel for it and give you at least some idea what's going on.

Jason E
12-10-2005, 09:10 PM
The dealer is not always the best choice. I've had mine in there before and it's been called a Grand Prix at least 3 times.... and I'm supposed to trust the guy under the hood? No thanks. Nothing beats getting some buddies and doing some of the work yourself. You learn the most, and save the most.

I don't know what dealer you've been to, but I can pretty much assure you I have never seen ANY Pontiac tech call a GA a GP, or vice versa. And no, a dealer is not ALWAYS the best option, but at least you'll get a friggen answer. I agree that its great to be able to do some of the work yourself...if you have the ability and the tools. Most people lack both to do something as complex as an LIM...I know I wouldn't want to try it.

GRocks,
I'm not flaming you, and I read your detailed posts. Its "through my head" what happened. The point is that while it is UNLIKELY that you fried your engine after 3 months of use after running coolant for it, you DID run coolant through it, and it COULD have weakened things to the point where they didn't let go right away, but eventually has.

With all due respect, when the car overheated the first time, you should have had it checked out. Just adding coolant is no good...didn't you wonder where the hell it went? If the car is not leaking it, then its doing something with it. Now, I admit in the 61k miles I've had my GP, I added coolant to it once around 46k (just changed it at 55k)...but that was after nearly 5 years. Coolant, by its nature, does evaporate. However, if you had so little coolant that it overheated, I would think you would have thought something of that.

Not flaming...just get the damn car to a dealer, and get it diagnosed. At this point, they're your best option.

Jason E
12-10-2005, 09:14 PM
As for post $36, indeed...it would be nice if GM had a recall. However, admittedly, all cars have issues. Some big, some small. 3400s were blessed with an impressive one. And, frankly I'd be lying to you if I told you I've seen few 3400s get LIMs replaced. I sold my uncle a '99...his did it. I've purchased them at auctions a couple years old, only to drive them home from the auction with the low coolant lights already on.

All cars have issues. This is the Grand Am's issue. Overall, they're a pretty damn tough car. I've already seen '99+ models be traded in with over 150k on them, running strong. Many of these people bought another Grand Am, or a G6. Something tells me if their cars were POSs and had soaked them, they wouldn't be replacing them with another Grand Am or Pontiac.

GRocks10
12-10-2005, 10:05 PM
As for post $36, indeed...it would be nice if GM had a recall. However, admittedly, all cars have issues. Some big, some small. 3400s were blessed with an impressive one. And, frankly I'd be lying to you if I told you I've seen few 3400s get LIMs replaced. I sold my uncle a '99...his did it. I've purchased them at auctions a couple years old, only to drive them home from the auction with the low coolant lights already on.

All cars have issues. This is the Grand Am's issue. Overall, they're a pretty damn tough car. I've already seen '99+ models be traded in with over 150k on them, running strong. Many of these people bought another Grand Am, or a G6. Something tells me if their cars were POSs and had soaked them, they wouldn't be replacing them with another Grand Am or Pontiac.

Well, I'll tell ya.. I got a Grand AM because this was the car my mother and father both had years ago.. my dad had a 96 and then 2 years later.. my mom liked how good of a car it was that she decided to get one too.. and then evetually the newer style came out in 99 and years later.. I decided to go get a used one because I saw how happy they were with theirs and figured I'd have as much joy.. and I'll tell you something.. I have had joy except for when this LIM issuee became a problem.. now, I don't know weather to keep it or sell it though I would perfer to keep it I just don't know if I want to deal with all this hassles when its not needed for something that I keep on top of..

I guess I feel like Pontiac is a disapointment after what has happened with the LIM situation.. I would think they would be more on top of things with something that can damage your engine this bad and still have so many problems after it gets fixed.. the potential is there but I don't feel that the owner should continue to pay loads of money to maintain something that will evetually cause more problems.. how can a recall not be called out? I don't get it.

Jason E
12-11-2005, 09:20 AM
To be honest, while watching the service department over the last 5 years (look at the cars in my sig, and you'll see why I've always paid close attention to what comes through and why it comes through), I have never seen an engine blow due to a LIM leak. Ever. People suck the coolant in, the light comes on, and they come in. Simple, really. Others will add coolant, see the light comes on again, realize its something more than they thought, and limp it to the dealer. You replace it once, and with the revised gasket, it doesn't appear to ever go again. You can beat the crap out of one of these 3100s/3400s for years, and as long as you don't neglect them, they don't die.

When I bought my '02, I sold my '95 GA SE 3100 that had 121k on it. I used to have fun racing '94-'98 Stang GTs with it, and while I never beat one, they never got away from me either. I bought the car when it came in on trade with 109k...had a blown head gasket. Wasn't the car's fault...the original owner NEVER CHANGED THE COOLANT!!! One of the head passages blocked with dirt, and popped the gasket. I helped a tech re-do the top of the engine, I bought it and had a blast with it for 12k. I sold it to a girl who, 3 1/2 years later, still has it and loves it. It now has about 175k, and even she said she likes to "peel out" every now and then :D

Cars have issues. Ever owned a Mitsubishi? Know anyone with a '99-'04 Jetta? Ask them how their car has been. How about a Chrysler product from the pre-Daimler days? Got transmissions?? :D Some Mazdas have issues. And yes, the beloved Toyotas and Hondas that everyone thinks are so infallible, are not. I had a friend with a '99 Accord she bought new that had a transmission blow in the first 5k miles.

Get your GA fixed, keep it, be good to it, and when it hits 150k, come back and tell me I was wrong ;) We have 70k on our Grand Am, and I plan to keep it for a long, long time. I have the entire service history on the car (it was sold new by us, serviced with us, was traded back in in March on a G6, then we bought in May), and other than a few electrical gremlins early on, and the typical brake woes, the car has been fine. She's put over 20k on it in 6-7 months now, and its great. We've put a window motor in it and brakes on it, and that's it. Not bad for a now 7 year old car.

Long story short, deal with it, keep it, and enjoy it.

Inferno
12-11-2005, 09:38 AM
:stupid:

Jason E
12-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Huh?

atc3434
12-11-2005, 11:11 AM
Means he agrees with you. Over the couple of years I've been here on this forum, we've only heard of a couple 3400's that have actually needed a complete rebuild from the LIM, it usually leaks externally. However, there have a been a few stories of it going un-noticed and wrecking the motor. I'll back you up though, GM v6s are some of the strongest out there, 60* and 90*. I've had two 3300s go past 200k in perfect working order, and my GA's knocking down 117k and running beautifully.

roboticgod
12-11-2005, 01:52 PM
This is oh to commen for GA's 3.4L. My boss who is an ASE Tech with his own shop, has had this same dalima.

Just about 2gallons of Dex lost into the oil, he drove it over 200miles over thanksgiving and then toar it down.

Thinkging the LIM gaskets were the prob but they were fine, so he pulled the dreaded heads and those gaskets were fine as well.
Well he installed new high performance gaskets and the damn things still leaking. Thier were no warped heads or intakes and not cracks.

Over the past two weeks he's replaced them three times and still they leak. He sent off the intake to get xray'd or some ****, by a person who performs such meningfull tasks on a regularr bases. But they to hav found nothing wrong, not warp no cracks.

So where the hells it leaking then, and hes still stumpd, though he wouldnt admit it. This should hav been a recall on bad design. thiers just not alot of meat around those coolant jackets on the meeting surfaces from intake to head, WTF were those enginerrs thinking.

And we both hav had several other Gm motors lik the 3.1 the 3.3s and they dont hav this problem, not as often and wide spead as the 3.4s. Run the **** outta my 95' 3.1 and it never blew gaskets like these... who knows... and GL GRocks10 you are going to need it.
BTW GRocks10, try checking those vacum lines and your pcv might be clogged with clumps of sludge left over from you gasket/overheating milkshake work, just an afterthought.

rocketfast123
12-11-2005, 03:16 PM
You can beat the crap out of one of these 3100s/3400s for years, and as long as you don't neglect them, they don't die.


I know of a person who has a factory freak. 2002 GA SE 3400 125k,and no LIM leak.

GrahamKracka
12-11-2005, 03:56 PM
i didnt read all 3 pages....but have you checked the fuel pump? or the fuel filter?

UNCTYPE-S
12-11-2005, 03:58 PM
I know of a person who has a factory freak. 2002 GA SE 3400 125k,and no LIM leak.

That's not a factory freak. That's just a normal working car, like most should be.

rocketfast123
12-11-2005, 06:15 PM
That's not a factory freak. That's just a normal working car, like most should be.

in the GA world that's a freak :lol:

DrFabulous
12-11-2005, 07:53 PM
in the GA world that's a freak :lol:

No, in the 3400 world. Some of us don't have to worry about that. :D

Mike Jung
12-11-2005, 08:25 PM
No, in the 3400 world. Some of us don't have to worry about that. :D
Just hope you never have to, have your water pump changed ;)

roboticgod
12-11-2005, 08:29 PM
for those who baby thier Ga's they might last quiet some time. But for us in the Real world, with driving excitment and alll, they blow out offten. way to offten.

GrahamKracka
12-11-2005, 08:40 PM
i babied mine and it still ****ed up all the time

DrFabulous
12-11-2005, 08:42 PM
Just hope you never have to, have your water pump changed ;)

Don't jinx it!!! *knocks on wood*

I haven't had anything for problems yet, but at 64k, I know they'll start coming up soon.

GRocks10
12-11-2005, 08:44 PM
Really, thank you to everyone.. you have all been nothing but so helpful. :)

*Big hug*

I will keep you updated once it goes in the dealer.

rocketfast123
12-12-2005, 01:12 AM
Don't jinx it!!! *knocks on wood*

I haven't had anything for problems yet, but at 64k, I know they'll start coming up soon.

I'm at 64k also :nono:

DrFabulous
12-12-2005, 01:22 AM
I'm at 64k also :nono:

Really? It's not a blue coupe is it? We'd be twins.

Once I hit 100k, I'm done putting money into it and I'm going to just drive it into the ground. I take fairly good care of the engine, but I tend to open it up whenever I can. Hopefully I can get to 150k.

rocketfast123
12-12-2005, 01:58 PM
Really? It's not a blue coupe is it? We'd be twins.


4-door champagne beige metallic :)

DrFabulous
12-12-2005, 03:30 PM
4-door champagne beige metallic :)

Yea, not close. What color interior?

Jason E
12-12-2005, 09:44 PM
FWIW, I've seen a few other 3400s not need the gasket, but obviously most do. The highest mileage one I've seen as of late is a friend's '01 GA GT I sold her brand new...84k on it, still original.

I've seen them as early as 19k on a '99 Alero...most seem to make it right around the tail end of the 3/36, thankfully :) Although, anyone with an '02.5+ should be fine.

And yes, our GA will never need one, but I have my fingers crossed on the water pump :( 70k so far...she drives it easy, I get it up to 3,500-4,000 every now and then, but thats it. I have the Z when I really wanna run :D

DrFabulous
12-12-2005, 09:48 PM
I get it up to 3,500-4,000 every now and then, but thats it. I have the Z when I really wanna run :D


That's sad. I open her up at least once every time I drive it. As long as it's got good oil, nothing is going to happen.

02andahalfgt
12-12-2005, 10:32 PM
Although, anyone with an '02.5+ should be fine.

Wrong. :(

AznGA
12-12-2005, 11:31 PM
Jon's 03 GA needed new LIM gaskets at around 13000 miles.

Mine started leaking slowly before my warranty ended. I wasn't smart enough to pay attention to it. I got them replaced at 70000 miles. That's when I couldn't drive because it leaked so much.

I hope these improved gaskets hold up longer.

coupe
12-13-2005, 06:17 AM
Ive got a bit over 20K on my revised gasket and still A-OK.

Jason E
12-15-2005, 11:59 AM
Hmmm...maybe they didn't put the revised gasket in until '03 then? I thought it was mid '02...maybe it was mid '03...

As for wailing on my girlfriend's car, well...it isn't my car, and if it breaks then she'll be after me until its fixed :) For a 4 banger, the 2.4 is great...I prefer it a ton over the Ecotec. It has this thing called TORQUE...something escaping the Ecotec. Sure, its loud...but at least its quick :)

But like I said, for me personally, the Z28 is where I'm lucky enough to get my speed fix. Nothing like a 5,500 RPM shift at WOT with the SLP cat back screaming and the SLP CAI whistling away...the GP gets a workout on a regular basis too. The GA's 1-2 shift is kinda hard at WOT...needs a tranny flush I think.

GRocks10
12-15-2005, 01:18 PM
Alright so the car got towed over to the Pontiac Dealership so they said I didn't need to be there since it would take quite sometime till they would service it.. well, I'm hoping the'll do their magic and uncover whats wrong with the car.... so, its $88 for the diagnosis and if anything needs to be fixed - it will be applied towards the repair.. I honestly hope its nothing big and if anything, I hope the warranty covers it. This whole problem has seriously set my mood so low ever since because I'm someone who is always on top of this kind of stuff.. and with the holidays coming, just that much worst money wise because I already spent enough for the family.

DrFabulous
12-15-2005, 01:22 PM
Warranty? Unless I missed something, you're way out of warranty.

GRocks10
12-15-2005, 01:26 PM
Warranty? Unless I missed something, you're way out of warranty.

Figured the problem is most likelythe CATs exhaust which in that case we have the 80K or 8 year warranty and my car meets those requirements.

GRocks10
12-16-2005, 01:37 PM
Hey everyone,

UPDATE: So $88 dollars later and the diagnosis is done.. they found that my starter went out and thats why the car is cranking but locks up because the starter has gone bad. Next are a few other things they recommend I get done but I know its their way of asking for more money to keep up on maintenance.. the MAIN thing that needs to be fixed is to replace the starter though, that is what the service manager told me on the phone.

So here is the run down for my own records of what he says needs to be fixed along with prices from GM Pontiac dealership:

Replace Starter - Parts and labor $551.18

Oil change - $21.95

Gas Filter - $69.95

Air Filter - $29.95

PCV Valve - $34

TBI Service - Cleans intake combustion - $129.95 ( what difference will I notice with this compared to the fuel injection cleaning? )

Fuel Injection cleaning - $89.95 ( is it really necessary again? I had this done just a year ago )

TOTAL approx $925.88
_______________________

Let me know what you all think... especially what does the PCV valve do? He mentioned it but not enough details.. and why is a gas filter so much money?

Thanks

DrFabulous
12-16-2005, 01:56 PM
Do you have any know-how when it comes to cars? The air filter, fuel filter, oil change and starter could all be done in your garage no problem.

freakydeaky
12-16-2005, 02:44 PM
Hey everyone,

UPDATE: So $88 dollars later and the diagnosis is done.. they found that my starter went out and thats why the car is cranking but locks up because the starter has gone bad. Next are a few other things they recommend I get done but I know its their way of asking for more money to keep up on maintenance.. the MAIN thing that needs to be fixed is to replace the starter though, that is what the service manager told me on the phone.

So here is the run down for my own records of what he says needs to be fixed along with prices from GM Pontiac dealership:

Replace Starter - Parts and labor $551.18

Oil change - $21.95

Gas Filter - $69.95

Air Filter - $29.95

PCV Valve - $34

TBI Service - Cleans intake combustion - $129.95 ( what difference will I notice with this compared to the fuel injection cleaning? )

Fuel Injection cleaning - $89.95 ( is it really necessary again? I had this done just a year ago )

TOTAL approx $925.88
_______________________

Let me know what you all think... especially what does the PCV valve do? He mentioned it but not enough details.. and why is a gas filter so much money?

Thanks

feeling brave, do it yourself.....

new starter prices (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php?carcode=1357118&parttype=4152)

how to:

tools needed:

Sockets and wrenches
Screwdriver
Pliers
Drive-on ramps, jack or jackstands


Let the engine cool.

Gather together all the necessary tools.

Place the vehicle on ramps, or jack up the front and support it on jack stands. Follow all safety precautions. Block the rear wheels. Never work under a vehicle
supported by a jack.

Be sure the ignition is OFF and then remove the negative (grounded) battery cable from the battery with the puller after loosening the attaching bolt.


Note all wiring connections to the starter and solenoid.

Starter Replacement
Remove the battery/starter cable attached to the starter-mounted solenoid or to the starter.

Remove any other wires attached to the solenoid if it is starter-mounted. Note the wire positions so you can replace them correctly.


Remove the starter attaching bolts (usually two or three). Most bolts attach horizontally through the mounting flange. On GM cars the bolts are vertical, and there may be a shim between the engine and starter block. If there is one, it must be used with the new starter.

Remove any support bracket that holds the front of the starter.

Drop the starter down. You may have to remove or loosen transmission oil cooler lines or brackets, the exhaust pipe, flywheel housing cover, crossmember, ground strap, oil pressure sending unit or other parts to give you enough clearance to drop the starter down.


Install the new starter in the reverse order of removal. Be sure you replace the original shim(s) on the GM-type starter if there were any when you removed the old starter. This installation will probably be correct, but if there is a noise when the engine is starting or a whine after it starts, you may need to adjust the shims as follows:

If there is a starter noise when you crank the engine, remove one full-length shim or add one short shim to the outboard pad only.

If there is a high-pitched whine after the engine fires, add full-length shims one at a time until the noise disappears. DO NOT use more than four shims. To add a full-length shim, add the shim and then retighten both bolts.


PCV= The Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve is an emissions control device that routes unburned crankcase blowby gases back into the intake manifold where they can be reburned.

fuel filter prices (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php?carcode=1357118&parttype=6200)

Mike Jung
12-16-2005, 06:57 PM
...PCV Valve - $34...
It is like a $5 part!!!

How do you change a PCV valve? (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6478)

GRocks10
12-16-2005, 07:12 PM
Just wanted to let you all know.. YOU GUYS ROCK! THANKS FOR THE HELP. I am buying the starter myself at a great price and I have a mechanic that will do the job for a much less price than the quote GM gave. Atleast I feel good knowing now what the problem is.. OH and you guys ready for this one? I received the whole history the car has gone through under warranty work when it was under the 3 year/36k bumper to bumper.. you know, what the old owner did since this car was purchased used.

Looks like in 2001, the car underwent for the first time the LIM gasket replacement under warranty!! Worst part is that I never knew that and I had to do it 3 months ago... so this is the second time this car has underwent a LIM replacement. Thats terrible.. if it happens a third time, wouldn't this car be considered a lemon? Figured if the same problem happens 3 times.. thats a lemon from what I've read. Any resources that could help if that was to happen again? I personally want to keep the car but I sure don't want to have another problem that big again.. oyyyyy!!

02andahalfgt
12-16-2005, 08:37 PM
To be a lemon it has to be 3 consecutive instances of the same problem taken to dealerships so that it's documented. Not to mention the car is way too old to even be considered a lemon. Also the LIM is a very common problem that everyone is aware of, another point against being a lemon.
If they used the 'newer' LIM gasket that GM released after finally realizing there was a problem then it should never go bad again. Replacing it twice isn't terrible either, a lot of people here have been through it twice, welcome to the club.

Malaclypse
12-17-2005, 02:01 AM
The revised gasket design wasn't available until late 2003 IIRC.

Jason E
12-17-2005, 01:35 PM
Well, $551 does seem insane for a starter, but do yourself a favor...you've already used one shadetree mechanic, so why not have Pep Boys or someone at least remotely reputable throw a starter in for you! The nice thing about Pep Boys is that normally there's a lifetime warranty on the part, so if it goes bad again, all you owe is labor. Not many garages install lifetime parts around here...

Remember, you get what you pay for. You just thought you got screwed by one "side job"...why do another to save a few bucks?

GRocks10
12-17-2005, 02:29 PM
The current mechanic feels bad that since he already installed the fuel pressure regulator and the new belt and the fuel pressure regulator didn't fix the problem I was aiming for.. he told me he will install the starter for me at no charge and I can decide to give him w/e I feel is appropiate if it fixes my problem.. he is taking care of me because he said he doesn't like an unhappy customer and he wants my repeat business.. also the fact that I told him if he does me right I will return the favor by recommending his services to my friends which I already did and he fixed my friends car.. so hes getting business even more. I like the fact that this one is ASE certified.

Anyhow, I'm waiting on the parts now. I'll be sure to keep you all updated on what happens.. and just incase it turns out the starter does NOT fix my problem.. what recourse do I have against GM considering I just paid $88 plus tax for them to diagnois a $518 problem which is causing my problems currently? You guys are more than helpful... just wonderful group of people. Thanks!

Jason E
12-19-2005, 03:38 PM
Recourse? What recourse? You paid $88 because you wanted them to fix your problem. You decide they cost too much (which I'm not necessarily arguing with), take it somewhere else, have it "fixed," and then maybe find out their diagnosis was in error? Tough luck, pal. They don't know what you fixed or how it was fixed once it leaves their lot. You have no recourse.

If THEY fixed your starter, and then it turned out to be something else, then you have recourse...they'd take off the starter repair, and then just bill you for whatever fixed it.

02andahalfgt
12-19-2005, 05:06 PM
Recourse? What recourse? You paid $88 because you wanted them to fix your problem. You decide they cost too much (which I'm not necessarily arguing with), take it somewhere else, have it "fixed," and then maybe find out their diagnosis was in error? Tough luck, pal. They don't know what you fixed or how it was fixed once it leaves their lot. You have no recourse.

:applause: I was gonna say it, but I wouldn't have been as nice about it. lol

Jason E
12-19-2005, 09:44 PM
Sometimes, I just can't believe the things I read. I was trying to be nice, while having difficulty comprehending what I was reading. People want to have their cake, blow out the candles, eat it, then b!tch if it hurts too much crapping it back out. Then they want to hold someone responsible because their a** hurts.

Maybe I'm just jaded because I've worked for a dealer for over 5 years, and have literally seen EVERYTHING. Maybe its because I'm tired of people whining about things breaking on GM products, as if imports are so superior. I have news for those who assume they do: Everything has issues. Everything breaks at one point or another. Indeed, N bodies are not exactly the most reliable GM cars...but I'm happy to have one over many other cars I've seen, in terms of reliability.

Take care of a car, treat it well, maintain it, and it will last. Beat on it, and ANY car will break. The only cars I routinely see blowing oil out the tailpipe? Hondas :D Beat on anything, and it breaks. Truth be told, I'd take a 3400 with a new LIM over a lot of the import 4 pots any day. Sorry, had to rant :D

DrFabulous
12-19-2005, 10:11 PM
^^ I agree, but it depends what you mean by "beat on". If you make sure you're engine is running clean and smooth, you can push it often and for a long time.

GRocks10
12-20-2005, 12:57 AM
I've been nothing but on top of any problems that arise with my Grand AM. I never beat on it and take nothing but care with it. It hasn't treated me well ever since the gas prices when up and I decided to throw the For Sale on her.. shes been giving me problems since. haha.. its like women.. ya love em but they always do something that gets you upset yet you're always back with them again.

Anyhow, what I'm trying to imply is that I paid $88 for a diagnosis.. obviously if that is the case with the problem why on EARTH am I going to spend over $500 to fix such a problem when I can get the very same GM parts for much less and get labor done at no charge? To risk taking the chance that if my problem is fixed by GM with that started being replaced I just threw out a ton of money for no reason when I got it fixed elseware NOW knowing what the problem is through the GM techs diagnosing my problem. You better believe I expect some recourse if that ONE problem that they're saying is causing my car not to work does not fix my problem.. I have the right to whine like a child!

Thanks

DrFabulous
12-20-2005, 01:10 AM
You do not have any right to whine. Admit that you were raped by GM on this one, and move on.

GRocks10
12-20-2005, 01:29 AM
You do not have any right to whine. Admit that you were raped by GM on this one, and move on.

Yeah, with a ten foot poll.. but if I do find out that doesn't fix my problem.. I will look into it. No way in hell did I pay plus have my car towed to a GM dealership to end up leaving my car there to find out that its my starter and later asking to pay $518 to fix it and then when I get the job fixed by an ASE certified mechanic with the same parts GM was going to use and this does not fix my problem I can very well bet that you and ANYONE else would be extremely upset.

This is infact the case even if I do not get the job done at that dealership but someone else now knowing the information I have learned because I PAID good money for the right diagnosis of what I'm believed is whats wrong with my car.. it would only be obvious that not everyone will end up getting their car fixed at the dealership if they find out its going to cost over $500 when they can do the same job elsewhere for much less.

GRocks10
12-30-2005, 10:40 PM
UPDATE:

I wanted to update everyone on my car situation.. as you all know I had the diagnostic done by GM Pontiac for $88 plus tax, came out to approx $95.. anyhow, the paperwork said the car needed the starter to be replaced but they wanted $558.18 to fix this problem and ofcourse everyone I know said that is NUTS so a very good friend of mine recommened me a family friend who owns a vehicle auto repair shop specializing in engine repairs to get in touch with him and have him take a look at my car because the owner of the shop does very good work and felt bad about my situation.

So anyhow, he said he would do the diagnosis.. I had the car once again towed over and next day he called to inform me that because knowing about my passed problems of the overheating problem from the past with the LIM gasker repairs - my eninge finally gave up which took me by surprise because I didn't have any known problems after the repairs in the 3 months to think this would be the cause. He mentioned because the coolant went into the engine in the passed and the LIM gasket went bad, it was only temporary till I would have a problem again.. internally because the coolant went in the engine, its now causing the ga to knock alot when he tries to crank it over.

He said the GM people more than likely did not even diagnoise my car at all and just assumed it was the starter because he took time to really figure out what was wrong and with the replacement starter I bought elsewhere that was a genuine GM starter in perfect working condition and this still did not fix my problem - he could see that it was much more than that.

HERE IS THE RESULT: $1200 to replace the engine with a used Grand AM engine that is coming off a 2004 grand am with 22,000 miles.. perfect working condition if I decide to go that route.

MY question: UMMMM... Why in the hell should I be responsible for this BS!? Its already enough that I paid $700 just 3 months ago to fix the LIM leak and now I get this again?

Okay, so I already read and did my research that its apparent that its extremely common in this vehicles to go through this problem so I ask again, WHY IS THERE JUST A TSB OUT FOR THIS AND NOT A RECALL!!? SO MANY people have gone or WILL go through this without knowing this and don't even have an idea right now that they will shell down this MUCH money to fix a problem that is already has potential to go BAD AGAIN on them!!! HOW can there not be a recall or a class action law suit? This is unreal.

GM knows full well that they had a bad design of the LIM gaskets.. when they knew this, they should've sent out a recall to fix the problem before it would get to late.. most people don't have any clue whatsoever that this coolant problem is as deadly to the engine as they would usually expect.. like in my case, I thought it needed just a coolant fill up but didn't realize it was actually leaking through the gasket and going internally in my engine screwing the hell out of it!! IF I knew this, it would've been fixed WAY before I had it overheat on me.

Anyway, straight to the question.. I called GM to speak to the service manager that took my order to do the diagnoises and explained to him that it was NOT my starter and I wanted to know about how to get reimbursed for that but ofcourse he gave me nothing but the run around and then had the nerve to HANG UP on me.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing but very dishonest people in the mechanic business.. hate to say it but it is SOO SOO true.

What can be done? I have other news.. I received the vehicle history report from GM with everything fixed under warranty.. turns out the car had the LIM gasket replaced at around 20K miles.. and ofcourse as you all know I had it done just three months AGO.

Wouldn't there be a warranty out for the LIM gasket repair since it had it done for the original owner and then shouldn't it have had like a lifetime warranty for me just like GM said they would give a lifetime warranty on the starter had I got it replaced there?

This is crazy.. I cannot believe this! I've had no car for almost 2 months now and I'm STILL paying the insurance and I can't drive it. UNREAL

I've taken NOTHING BUT EXCEPTIONAL CARE for this car to bite me in the ass like this. I guess bad things do happen to good people... what a crock of crap.

P.S., sorry for my tone in this reply - I'm just really wanting to vent my fustrations.

GRocks10
12-30-2005, 11:00 PM
***As you all can see.. I type WAY to much and really get into what happened, if possible.. can someone PLEASE, with the post above and my passed problems of the LIM repair, possibly write up a short summary in detail but obviously not as long as I've done so that I can use to send to GM headquarters complaint department aswell as forward to the BBB, and the Attorney General Office for review in this case? Possible I might even get in touch with a Lawyer now.. and if I do this, I would be happy to let them all know about anyone else here who has gone through this same problem with the LIM and WE WILL FIGHT GM AND TAKE THOSE BASTARDS DOWN FOR THE CRAP THEY PUT US THROUGH!!!**

atc3434
12-31-2005, 12:48 AM
Clunking and grinding. My bet is you did lots of damage internally to the motor when you had the first LIM gasket go bad. Coolant in the oil creates engine damage really fast. You overheated it, you had the milky oil, I bet thats when you hurt it, and its never been right since. Get a mechanic that really knows whats going on with it to tell you wants up, and what it'll cost to fix. I suppose you can blame the LIM leak, but not keeping tabs on a car thats known for that one problem... well, the jury is out on that one.

As stated in the very first reply to this thread. Its a bummer what happend to your car, thats for sure. The LIM thing is something to watch carefully on a 3400, especially if its the original gaskets. If you see a low coolant light or overheat, you need immediate attention. Not a bad motor, just one flaw. Plenty of worse designs out there, plenty better too.

GM isn't going to do anything to help you, I'd be really surprised if they did. Maybe if you complain enough, and in a reasonable manner, they might give you the labor if you buy the engine, or something of that nature. Sounds like you just need to eat the $1200 and move on with life. Sucks, but thats really your only good option. Waiting around for paperwork and GM to maybe do something about it is time consuming, and probably will never happen anyways. I feel your frusteration, and I hope things work out.

GRocks10
12-31-2005, 12:56 AM
3 months ago when I had the car fixed with the NEW LIM gaskets and the other good stuff to clean out the coolanet, its been driving great since then.. no coolant light has come on and the coolant has stayed where its suppose to. Car just flat out gave me problems one day that didn't seem to have to do with the LIM situation and BAM, thats it, whadya know.. it has to do with the LIM. I basically just shelled out a bunch of money from what other mechanics have suggested to be the problem by getting a new battery, a new fuel pressure regulator, a new belt, and a starter ( finally, thats the only thing GM said I needed when I had the diagnostic done ).. for what!? NOTHING.

And now, I have to deal with this BS.. is it me, or do I feel like I'm the only one who has taken the repairs for this car and fixed them without full satisfaction of a job well done by throwing all this money out for nothing? I really feel like someone stuck a 10 foot dildo straight up my ass!

Man, I LOVE GM's! HAH, what a laugh.

Hey, heres a good question.. they would've taken my $558, had I gotten the starter from them and obviously that wouldn't fix my problem.. because, MY DAMN CAR ENGINE IS FRIED DUE TO THERE POS LIM GASKETS!!!! Oh but no.. they didn't dare disclouse that on the diagnosis that I got!! And you know what? They would've gave me some BS excuse that I needed the starter anyway and that there is other known problems and probably wouldn't reimburse on the starter that would cost me over $500, am I right?

Hey, if anyone here works for GM and you know you've been dishonest to your customers about their car and made them shell out a bunch of money for reasons that you knew had NOTHING to do with their car.. man, I hope karma bites you in the ASS.

Someway to celebrate the new year.

GRocks10
12-31-2005, 01:20 AM
I don't get something.. FORD put out a recall on their gaskets - June of 2005, why the heck hasn't GM done this yet? I found a website where there is over 9000 signatures on a petition regarding the LIM gasket repair situation that was forwarded to GM.. and it looks like nothing has still not been done but this petition was like 2 years ago.. how could nothing be done yet?

This is the website: http://groups.msn.com/GMConsumers

And the website with the information pertaining to Ford doing the recall of their plastic manifold gaskets: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/ford_manifold.html

02andahalfgt
12-31-2005, 03:57 PM
3 months ago when I had the car fixed with the NEW LIM gaskets and the other good stuff to clean out the coolanet, its been driving great since then.. no coolant light has come on and the coolant has stayed where its suppose to.

Pay attention.... YOU WAITED TOO LONG THE FIRST TIME TO FIX IT.

***As you all can see.. I type WAY to much and really get into what happened, if possible.. can someone PLEASE, with the post above and my passed problems of the LIM repair, possibly write up a short summary in detail but obviously not as long as I've done so that I can use to send to GM headquarters complaint department aswell as forward to the BBB, and the Attorney General Office for review in this case? Possible I might even get in touch with a Lawyer now.. and if I do this, I would be happy to let them all know about anyone else here who has gone through this same problem with the LIM and WE WILL FIGHT GM AND TAKE THOSE BASTARDS DOWN FOR THE CRAP THEY PUT US THROUGH!!!**

You must be like 16, cuz you whine like a little brat. The BBB isn't going to do anything for you. A lawyer isn't going to do anything for you. GM isn't going to do anything for you. Stop your focking bitching. I just spent way more than $1200 to fix my LIM problems and I caught it right at the beginning before it overheated and before any coolant got into the engine and caused permanent damage.

I would be happy to let them all know about anyone else here who has gone through this same problem with the LIM and WE WILL FIGHT GM AND TAKE THOSE BASTARDS DOWN FOR THE CRAP THEY PUT US THROUGH!!!

'Gone through' is the key phrase here. GM isn't going to reimburse the people who have already fixed this problem. And since the gasket design was revised in '03 they're not going to put out a recall 3 years after they addressed the problem and took, in their own minds, the appropriate action.

YOU didn't address your LIM problem quickly enough when the car first overheated. YOU are to blame for not taking better care of your car. Chalk it up as a lesson learned in life and pay more attention in the future.

GRocks10
01-01-2006, 01:19 AM
Let me explain something to YOU! First of all, your typical everyday person doesn't expect a vehicle to have such a flaw that it will actually overheat your vehicle and make it die and cause this PERMANANT damage once fixed if it overheats with coolant going through the engine because the normal everyday person who doesn't read up on this type of problem that doesn't expect to EVEN exist ESPECIALLY with the coolant where its guranteed to not have to be changed usually for 150,000 MILES to drain out through the gaskets and ruin the cars engine from a damn "low coolant" light coming on especially when that same person ( ME ) would go and re-fill the system with more coolant and not expect another problem.. when it indeed started showing the coolant light to often and the car finally overheated ON MY MOTHER when I LENT her the car - SHE continued to drive it anyway 5 minutes later when she shouldn't have but I WILL NOT blame her for something because I should've apparently read up on this forum and find out every little known problem when I shouldn't even have to because GM should know how to make CARS!!! And you would think a recall would be out for something this deadly on a cars engine.. WHY should we have to suffer paying crazy amounts of money to temporarily fix something that'll evetually happen again?

I don't know about you.. but thats nuts, call me a whiney brat all you want.. unlike you, I shelled out $700 for the LIM, and now am going to pay just 3 months later $1200 to replace the engine with a 2004 engine with 22k miles that is in perfect running condition.. okay, thats great and all but I shouldn't HAVE TO pay this without some recourse and GM telling me with the their "diagnosis", that all my car needed was a starter.. and when I got it replaced, I find out my engine is fried either wayh.. what a BUNCH OF BS!!

P.S., you just paid $1200 BEFORE your car overheated to fix JUST the lim problem? Wow buddy.. you got RIPPED OFF! You sure feel good knowing that GM is bending you over and take a pipe straight up your ass, eh?

Hey, those that don't complain and whine are people like you that don't care about your hard earned money and will continue to be passive and let others walk over you.. not me, PAL.

GRocks10
01-01-2006, 01:49 AM
Btw, for a second I want to forget about my whole ordeal with my fustrations I'm going through with the GA and would like to wish all of you a Happy New Year hoping for good things that will happen for everyone, good health, and success. :)

Let 2006 be a good year we all don't forget! When there is bad.. most of the time, something good will come of it at the end.

atc3434
01-01-2006, 08:04 PM
In My Opinion, a typical everyday normal car has typical everyday normal idiot lights for typical everyday normal people who don't know enough to check out stuff on the car. You would think, that if I light for low coolant came on, you'd wonder "Gee, where did that coolant go?" Topping it off once, without looking into it, maybe. More that once, and you're not using common sense. And anytime a gauge, such as the temperature gauge, goes all the way into the red, turns a red light and an idiot light on, and sounds a chime, one might stop and figure out that there is a serious problem. But, there are a lot of varieties on typical, everyday people.

02andahalfgt
01-01-2006, 10:10 PM
Moral of the story.. Ask more questions the first time around and take better care of your belongings. You're not going to get a free hand out over this problem, so shut up and move on with your life.

Oh, and p.s. :rolleyes: ... No, I spent more than $1200 to fix the LIM and other wonderful problems that go along with owning a Pontiac. But I still love my car and I'm not going to look for a hand out from anyone. It was my decision to buy it so I'll suck it up, like a MAN, and take care of my car.

In My Opinion, a typical everyday normal car has typical everyday normal idiot lights for typical everyday normal people who don't know enough to check out stuff on the car. You would think, that if I light for low coolant came on, you'd wonder "Gee, where did that coolant go?" Topping it off once, without looking into it, maybe. More that once, and you're not using common sense. And anytime a gauge, such as the temperature gauge, goes all the way into the red, turns a red light and an idiot light on, and sounds a chime, one might stop and figure out that there is a serious problem. But, there are a lot of varieties on typical, everyday people.

:applause: Period. This can be locked now.

GRocks10
01-02-2006, 05:32 AM
So I guess.. those that received a "free handout" from FORD for the plastic manifold gaskets were idiots aswell, eh? Considering some people decided not to be ignorant and actually complain to make it a recall.

Anyhow, your typical everyday person will realize that there was only so often the light would pop on.. in my case, I would say a total of 3 times before it finally red lined on the temputare gauge.. you need to also realize that I never knew about the coolant problem and how common it was so when I figured to just top it off with coolant, there wouldn't such a big problem considering all the coolant WASN'T even gone.. it was 3/4 full.. I guess a typical person like myself who isn't usto knowing that Pontiac are dumb fu*cks and actually make poorly designed LIM gaskets.. would would've ever thought? And to think that a recall wasn't put out..

But hey, 02andahalfgt,

Just for info.. I'm NOT looking for a hand out - I just expect a vehicle that has been nothing but love put into it would never screw me over like this.. but you want to know something? It wouldn't have if those LIM gaskets weren't sh*it.. I could handle all the other misc stuff that come along with keeping a car in top condition.. the other faulty part was done by the smart asses that overlooked such a major flaw.

You would think even after the car already went through the LIM the first time around that GM would figure out that they couldn't do the right job the second time around and I had to deal with the BS.. and then, AGAIN.

Continue to think I'm looking for a hand out.. but what it comes down to is I need to now replace my engine and I'm taking full responsibilty when I KNOW I shouldn't have to.

GRocks10
01-02-2006, 05:36 AM
Oh and P.S.,

I LOVE my car too.. and that is the only reason I continue to fix the problems when they arise.. its crap like this case that makes me hate the car and wish I never even bought it.

But hey, just like women.. sometimes, we hate them, but can't live without em. hah! :)

02andahalfgt
01-02-2006, 01:22 PM
:crying:

I know you're stupid, so I'll try to keep this simple. GM is near bankruptcy, have you not been following the news? Do you have any idea how much it would cost to fix so many gaskets? Just because it would be free to you doesn't mean it's free for them, it's a very labor intesive job. Also, they fixed the problem 3 years ago by redesigning the gasket. They took care of the problem on their end. Before the car overheats, 99.9% of the time the 'low coolant' light will come on long before so you know something's wrong.
For example, my low coolant light came on, I checked it, added some and 3 days later it came on again. Four days later the car was in the shop to be fixed. No waiting around. Thanks to my quick acting, there was no long term damage done to the engine. That's all it takes, nice and simple and move on with life. Raise as much hell as you'd like, GM will never issue a recall for this problem.

:horse: x100000000000000000000000000000000

GRocks10
01-02-2006, 02:02 PM
:crying:

I know you're stupid

EXCUSE ME!? I don't think thats a proper way to go about belittling my character like that.. do not ASSUME anything about myself until you KNOW me personally.. until then, I could give a rats ass what you think or anyone else for that matter.

Now, the reply you posted above after leaving that uncalled for comment was interesting and made good points.. however, I have not kept up with the news of whats going on with GM and don't really care to because I don't live my life knowing whats going on with crap companies that don't know how to make gaskets correctly that evetually die out engines for a simple problem that shouldn't have been overlooked in the FIRST PLACE.

Not surprised though that GM is going bankrupt.. go figure.

Anyhow, thank you all for your insight and your help positive or negative.

Staff: please close this thread.

02andahalfgt
01-02-2006, 08:46 PM
however, I have not kept up with the news of whats going on

Well there's your problem. Most people research major purchases like cars. That's how the vast majority of us came upon this site. Research before we bought, research when a problem arose. Not complaining after the fact.

:crying: :horse:

GRocks10
01-02-2006, 10:49 PM
I did do my research on the car when I bought it which was before I even found out about this forum and the coolant issuee.. and my family has had 2 Pontiac Grand AMs prior to me buying this Grand AM but they had the second generation models which didn't have the LIM gasket problem.

Anyhow, let this thread die already. Thank you