New PCV valve, sea foamed and accel coil packs-now have problems [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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coupe
03-28-2006, 05:37 AM
Well I put in a new PCV valve, then i sea foamed (top end) and then I installed new accel coil packs in about an hour all at the same time. Now my check engine light is on and my idle is jumpy and it jerks/struggles under light acceleration. When i sea foamed my other vehicles the SES light has always came on but turns it self off after a few days, ussually its becuase it dirtied the O2 sensor, no big deal. With my GA however its not turning off and the idle is all jumpy.

So all of you that have sea foamed your GA, have you had the SES light come on? If so what was the problem?

Those of you that have installed Accel coil packs, have they given you any trouble?

Those that have replaced the PCV valve, had any problems afterwords? (highly unlikely i know)

I have to replace my water pump this weekend so the car is down till i replace that, after i replace that im taken it to autozone to check my codes.
I was also thinkin that maybe it has something to do with my waterpump. Its throwing crap on the belt, maybe its making the belt slip a bit and causing my problem.
Has anyone had that happen?

iceman
03-28-2006, 07:29 AM
Never had an SES after top end cleaner.. Sounds like a bad coil pack. Did you change your plugs????

coupe
03-28-2006, 08:03 AM
Well when i change out the water pump im gonna put my stock coil packs back in and see if that does anything. I didnt change the plugs, they have only been in for MAYBE 20k miles, they are NGK TR-55's. Im gonna pull them out anyway and see what they look like.
Bad coil pack would suck, i really hope thats not it. These accels werent that expensive ($35 or so apiece) but i would hate to have to buy another set.

iceman
03-28-2006, 08:05 AM
really should change the oil and plugs after running topend cleaner through..

why did you change the coil packs in the first place?

coupe
03-28-2006, 08:18 AM
really should change the oil and plugs after running topend cleaner through..

why did you change the coil packs in the first place?


Why would i need to change the oil and plugs? How would the seafoam get in the oil? The plugs i can kinda understand.

My stockers where toast. The posts where black and when i went to clean them the metal started flaking off. Im gonna have to bite the bullet and buy stockers. It would suck to do that and that not be the problem.

coupe
03-28-2006, 09:25 AM
I really am starting to think this car just hates me :mad:

lone_wolf025
03-28-2006, 02:23 PM
I think its safe to say we've all had cars like that at one time or another...

Anyways there is a way to check the packs without removing them. If you have a 12V test lamp you can just wedge the probe into the top of each pack and ground it to see if you've got spark coming from it. I'd hold off on condeming the new parts, unless you got them second hand or you can confirm they're bad (which I'm sure you've thought of). Also if you haven't already pull the ground from the battery to let the computer relearn the power curve. Often times when you change/clean parts the computer is used to dealing with the old part and doesn't understand there's a new one.

Panacea
03-28-2006, 03:05 PM
Did you add seafoam through the PCV valve hose? One time I added too much, which caused the engine to die. It caused an SES light (SVS?) and the problem was an O2 sensor. Dealer cleared the code and all is well. Could just be that the sensor didn't like something.

My car did not have a jumpy idle, and I highly doubt it's related to seafoam. I would venture to say it has something to do with the ignition system (coils, wires, plugs, etc.)

coupe
03-29-2006, 08:24 AM
I think its safe to say we've all had cars like that at one time or another...

Anyways there is a way to check the packs without removing them. If you have a 12V test lamp you can just wedge the probe into the top of each pack and ground it to see if you've got spark coming from it. I'd hold off on condeming the new parts, unless you got them second hand or you can confirm they're bad (which I'm sure you've thought of). Also if you haven't already pull the ground from the battery to let the computer relearn the power curve. Often times when you change/clean parts the computer is used to dealing with the old part and doesn't understand there's a new one.

How do you "wedge" it into the pack? There isnt anywhere to wedge it lol
Nope they are brand new coils.

coupe
03-29-2006, 08:28 AM
Did you add seafoam through the PCV valve hose? One time I added too much, which caused the engine to die. It caused an SES light (SVS?) and the problem was an O2 sensor. Dealer cleared the code and all is well. Could just be that the sensor didn't like something.

My car did not have a jumpy idle, and I highly doubt it's related to seafoam. I would venture to say it has something to do with the ignition system (coils, wires, plugs, etc.)


Yup thats what happened. I put it in the PCV hose and it killed the engine. When i started it back up i had the SES light. Then i took it for a quick run and noticed right away the idle was all jumpy and it was jerky/struggles under light acceleration.
Tonight im changing the water pump and checking the plugs and gonna try to test the coil packs. I will report back what i find if anything.

angrysk8r
03-29-2006, 09:46 AM
make sure you got the line going into the new valve in tight and that all your pcv hoses are plugged in tight, my idle was surging pretty badly once because of a loose pcv valve

lone_wolf025
03-29-2006, 09:58 AM
Oh I'm thinking of the older style of packs. :doh: Ok then just pop the wires off the plugs one at a time and watch for the arc to ground.

Panacea
03-29-2006, 11:19 AM
Yup thats what happened. I put it in the PCV hose and it killed the engine. When i started it back up i had the SES light. Then i took it for a quick run and noticed right away the idle was all jumpy and it was jerky/struggles under light acceleration.
Tonight im changing the water pump and checking the plugs and gonna try to test the coil packs. I will report back what i find if anything.

Get the code read/cleared and see if that does anything for you.

coupe
03-29-2006, 11:26 AM
Get the code read/cleared and see if that does anything for you.

The order im gonna do this tonight:
change water pump
check plugs
check wires
check O2 sensor
check all vaccum lines
Start the car see if i fixed it by cleanen up the wires and plugs and O2 sensor and vaccum lines.
if not fixed put the old crappy stocker coils back in.
Start car
If still not fixed im taking it to autozone to have the codes read.

I will keep you all updated, please keep the suggestions coming.

Panacea
03-29-2006, 12:59 PM
Make sure you unplug the battery too.

coupe
03-29-2006, 01:05 PM
Make sure you unplug the battery too.

Well yeah lol

coupe
03-29-2006, 05:51 PM
OK i changed the water pump and the idle is back to normal, temp is back to normal and no more jerky/struggling under light acceleration and no more SES light. Weird uh?

digitalballz
03-29-2006, 06:19 PM
No if you were low on antifreeze it could cause those conditions.

coupe
03-30-2006, 05:10 AM
No if you were low on antifreeze it could cause those conditions.

I wasnt low on antifreeze though. My water pump wasnt leaking at all. The reason i new it was going was becuase it was heating up WAY to fast, it was throwing black crap on the underside of my hood above the belt (not much but noticable) and you could hear the bearing ticking/squealing when the engine was cold.

coupe
03-30-2006, 07:25 AM
Oh and BTW getting that damn cover off was a night mare lol
It litteraly was like part of the water pump lol

MMGT1
03-30-2006, 07:44 AM
Sounds like you had an air lock in your t-stat housing!! Usually accomidated by some wacky noises though.....it would have scared the crap outta you......but nice to see it's fixed, now get out and enjoy the mods!!!!!!!!!!

coupe
03-30-2006, 08:00 AM
Sounds like you had an air lock in your t-stat housing!! Usually accomidated by some wacky noises though.....it would have scared the crap outta you......but nice to see it's fixed, now get out and enjoy the mods!!!!!!!!!!

How would i have an air lock in my t-stat housing?

coupe
04-05-2006, 06:55 AM
DAMNIT! :rage:
Okay SES light is back
RPM's are jumping up and down about 50 rpms, like 800rpm-750rpm-800rpm-850rpm-800rpm-750rpm.
Its hesitating at low rpms when i accelerate.

Im having th codes read at autozone after work.
Any ideas you can give me till then?

lancerga
04-05-2006, 08:50 AM
Reset the ECM

coupe
04-05-2006, 09:17 AM
Reset the ECM? How do you do that?

lancerga
04-05-2006, 09:48 AM
Unplug the battery overnight. Or I believe there is an ECM fuse you need to remove.

coupe
04-05-2006, 11:27 AM
Unplug the battery overnight. Or I believe there is an ECM fuse you need to remove.

You dont know what your talkin about, stop replying to my thread, i need vetts up in here.
Unplugging the battery will do nothing at all, people who do that are clueless.
The ECM has nothing to do with this either, dont know why you think it would.

coupe
04-05-2006, 11:35 AM
Codes thrown
PO140
PO300
PO200

Any thoughts?

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 11:39 AM
When I ran top end cleaner, I changed the oil, plugs, and O2 sensor...

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 11:48 AM
Codes thrown
PO140
PO300
PO200

Any thoughts?


P0200 is the one you want to troubleshoot. If you can, do a Fuel Injector Coil Test and check the connections on your injectors. By chance could one of them come off? Could there be a short in the wiring? Otherwise, if it is not the injectors, connections, or wiring, you will need to replace the PCM...

coupe
04-05-2006, 11:57 AM
P0200 is the one you want to troubleshoot. If you can, do a Fuel Injector Coil Test and check the connections on your injectors. By chance could one of them come off? Could there be a short in the wiring? Otherwise, if it is not the injectors, connections, or wiring, you will need to replace the PCM...

How do i do a Fuel Injector Coil Test?
Replace my DHP? Man that would suck!!!
You know how to test coil packs by chance?
Im gonna do the easy stuff first plugs, wires, coil packs.
I dont have a O2 sensor anymore, i have an O2 sim. Had it for years.

iceman
04-05-2006, 12:04 PM
I dont have a O2 sensor anymore, i have an O2 sim. Had it for years.


pre-cat o2 sensor..

coupe
04-05-2006, 12:22 PM
pre-cat o2 sensor..

Yeah but the code is P0140, isnt that the one in the cat?

lone_wolf025
04-05-2006, 12:27 PM
Fuel injectors can be tested with either a dvom or with a plug in adaptor called a noid light. Basically the noid light plugs into the wires going to the fuel injector and lights up when it gets voltage. I dunno if Autozone or any of the other parts stores can loan them to you or not...Save the PCM for last. ALWAYS trouble shoot THEN worry about replacing parts.

As for reseting the ECM (aka PCM) you've already done that and everything came back. And for the record it doesn't take overnight for the computer to be reset. Simply removing the neg batt cable for A FEW MINUTES will do the same thing.

coupe
04-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Actually i have a noid light.
I think the root of my problems are these coil packs. I wanna know if there is a way to test them.

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 12:54 PM
If it is the PCM, simply resetting it will not do the trick. It would be a hardware issue. Perhaps if you addressed with DHP, and send in the PCM along with a junkyard PCM, and let them know of the hardware failure, perhaps you could work somethin out. This is probably the least likely issue you are having.

I would point to the likelyness of bad wiring, or a faulty injector. To perform an injector coil test, I have attached the procedure, but as you can see, calls for specific hardware. Could try to use a multimeter, or just take it into a shop. If you know someone with a tech-2 or Powrtuner, you could do a balance test (will take time with powrtuner due to all the re-flashing). This slowly skews each injector to 0, and you listen and time the firing to see if one cylinder is hitting as hard or not. Could be a better way to tell. Given you have a random misfire, it could even be a grounding issue...

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 12:56 PM
DTC P0200 Injector Control Circuit -> How does any part of that involve the coil packs?

As an FYI, I have been running the Accel coils for about 3 years with no issues, but If I ever do, I will get some stockers...

coupe
04-05-2006, 12:58 PM
DTC P0200 Injector Control Circuit -> How does any part of that involve the coil packs?

As an FYI, I have been running the Accel coils for about 3 years with no issues, but If I ever do, I will get some stockers...

I have found other threads of people having trouble with them, same symptoms im having, also i didnt have this problem until just after i installed them.

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 01:03 PM
If P0300 (without P0200) just appeared after the coil pack install, then I would agree, but P0200 will ultimately set P0300-P0306...

lone_wolf025
04-05-2006, 01:09 PM
Swap out the new packs for the old ones. Regardless the codes all together are saying that the computer doesn't know what's going on inside the engine, hence all the different codes. It also seems to be across all cylinders so its a problem thats common to all of them...I'm leaning towards coils since thats the only thing that's changed.

tejohnson
04-05-2006, 01:16 PM
Did you run the sea foam through the gas tank too?

coupe
04-05-2006, 01:26 PM
Did you run the sea foam through the gas tank too?


No

coupe
04-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Swap out the new packs for the old ones. Regardless the codes all together are saying that the computer doesn't know what's going on inside the engine, hence all the different codes. It also seems to be across all cylinders so its a problem thats common to all of them...I'm leaning towards coils since thats the only thing that's changed.


Thats what im thinking also. If im wrong then i only waisted 20 minutes and no $$$$. If im wrong im gonna get the injectors cleaned.

iceman
04-05-2006, 01:53 PM
Do you ahve taylor spark plug wires?

Sprucegagt
04-05-2006, 03:00 PM
I'm leaning heavily on you having a loose or dirty wiring connection. I take it all three connectors are attached firmly to the coil pack base? Are all coil modules tightly mounted? You did clean the mounting base before installing the new coil packs, right? Sometimes water will condensate underneath the old coil packs.

coupe
04-05-2006, 05:37 PM
DAMNIT!!!
Word to the wise, if you want something done right do it your damn self.
My brother came and picked up my car when i was working and took it to autozone for the codes. Well the little bastard gave me the wrong code, actually that code never came up.

I only have P0300 and P0140.

OK i cleaned all the plugs, cleaned all the boots. I then started the car, same problem. So i said fock it and put the stockers back in. What i found was that there is little nubs on the "mounting plate" and i of course tightened the ACCEL's down and crushed a side of them......ALL 3!!!!!!!!
So yeah im a dumbass, i never checked to see if all was good before i put them in, i mean they are somewhat stock replacements, why would there not be a space for this "nub" on the accels?

I still have an SES light, BUT there is no longer a weird idle (jumpy rpm's), no more hesitation, all is good now, just the light is still on.

digitalballz
04-05-2006, 06:44 PM
I had the same problem with the accel coils. put my stockers back in and no probs since. You want to take a picture of this "knob" so we can see what it was?? PLEEZ!

lancerga
04-05-2006, 07:27 PM
Now it's time to reset the PCM or whatever you call it. A few minutes doesn't do it for all cars. I'm not specialized in these cars but I am a veteran of troubleshooting engines and especially electronics. I modify cars for a hobby. I have done a few turbocharged wonders. took junkyard stock chrysler 2.2 turbo engines and turned them into reliable 300-400HP depending on the setup engines. That takes knowledge because I didn't use engine management. Just tricks to fool the computer, bigger injectors etc... anyways you catch the drift. It's not because I have 10 post that I am an idiot. God it makes me laugh when people make this assumption.

Sprucegagt
04-05-2006, 08:51 PM
DAMNIT!!!
Word to the wise, if you want something done right do it your damn self.
My brother came and picked up my car when i was working and took it to autozone for the codes. Well the little bastard gave me the wrong code, actually that code never came up.

I only have P0300 and P0140.

OK i cleaned all the plugs, cleaned all the boots. I then started the car, same problem. So i said fock it and put the stockers back in. What i found was that there is little nubs on the "mounting plate" and i of course tightened the ACCEL's down and crushed a side of them......ALL 3!!!!!!!!
So yeah im a dumbass, i never checked to see if all was good before i put them in, i mean they are somewhat stock replacements, why would there not be a space for this "nub" on the accels?

I still have an SES light, BUT there is no longer a weird idle (jumpy rpm's), no more hesitation, all is good now, just the light is still on.

Glad you found the problem. Now I would reset the PCM. Pull the PCM fuse in the underhood fuse block or go back to Autozone and have them clear the codes.

coupe
04-06-2006, 05:06 AM
Glad you found the problem. Now I would reset the PCM. Pull the PCM fuse in the underhood fuse block or go back to Autozone and have them clear the codes.


Isnt the PCM fuse in the driverside fuse box? I could have swore i seen it in there.

coupe
04-06-2006, 05:08 AM
I had the same problem with the accel coils. put my stockers back in and no probs since. You want to take a picture of this "knob" so we can see what it was?? PLEEZ!


I wont have time to do that for a few days BUT if you want just pull out one of your coil packs and look at the "prongs" that slide into the coil pack, look to the right of those, you will see this little bastard "nub". lol Use a flash light so you can really see.

What really makes me mad is if i knew they where there i could have EASILY cut them off with my dremel and not damaged these accels.

When i get the time im gonna take pics and maybe do a write up on the accels and these little "nubs". So others dont get screwed.

Sprucegagt
04-06-2006, 07:42 AM
Isnt the PCM fuse in the driverside fuse box? I could have swore i seen it in there.

Nope, underhood fuse block. It's a 10 amp fuse. I forget which number it is. Just read the inside of the fuse block cover, there should be one for PCM Batt.

coupe
04-06-2006, 08:00 AM
Nope, underhood fuse block. It's a 10 amp fuse. I forget which number it is. Just read the inside of the fuse block cover, there should be one for PCM Batt.

Cool im doin it tonight.

Its so nice to have her back running right :)

gaowners32
08-22-2008, 09:37 AM
Stupid question is the PCV valve located on the valve cover manifold?

geldartb
08-22-2008, 12:32 PM
yeah the front valve cover directly to the right of the oil filler.

SPAZ
08-23-2008, 03:14 PM
Accel coil packs suck I put them and the sucked back in 2002 and I guess they still suck in 2008 ...lol........atleast for our cars they do.

~SPAZ~