LIM gasket change walkthrough [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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angrysk8r
04-11-2006, 08:32 PM
NOTE: I just posted the LIM and head gasket change in the how to section. It has a more complete and refined list of steps from the original LIM gasket change thead (this thread). I've also added a picture and url compilation along with a common problems FAQ. The new updated thread is posted here (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68087&highlight=lim+gasket).


I've compiled this walkthrough for the 3400, and took some pictures that hopefully will help anyone else who will be doing this.

First off before you can start your LIM gasket change, you need a complete list of parts/tools that you're going to have to pick up. All together, since I didn’t have some of the required tools (such as the proper torque wrench), it cost me ~$300. Here’s what you should need:

What’s Necessary:
-Several buckets to drain radiator coolant/store old fluids
-Oil drain pan
-Acetone/paint thinner (To clean off old gasket material)
-Razor blades (To clean off old gasket material)
-About 6 liters of Dexcool antifreeze (Premixed) or ~3 liters unmixed (Assuming 50-50 mix of water to antifreeze)
-5 liters oil (4.5 needed for a refill but have some extra to pre-lubricate the pushrods/rockers)
-New thermostat w/ new thermostat o-ring
-12 fuel injector o-rings (Only if you plan to remove/clean the injectors and fuel rail)
-Thread Sealant
-RTV sealant
-LIM gasket kit (Contains both upper and lower intake gaskets)
-Throttle body gasket
-EGR gasket
-Valve cover gaskets
-A torque wrench reading inch pounds (not foot pounds)
-A good set of wrenches, ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers, and pliers
-Ratchet extensions
-U-joint for a ratchet
-New hose clamps to replace the old ones
-Oil filter wrench
-A special bar with a square end (used for rotating the tensioned pulley so you can remove the serpentine belt)

What’s not necessary but should be considered:
-Jack
-Jack stands
-Mechanics gloves
-Magnetic tray to store bolts
-Sharpie and labels/tape to label hoses/electrical connections
-Magnetic bolt retriever (Incase you drop a couple bolts/tools)
-A Haynes manual (Just incase you are confused about something and need more clarification)

Overall note: To remove coolant hoses, you must first remove the old hose clamp with a pair of pliers. It may take some force to remove the old coolant hoses for some parts of the LIM gasket change, so you may need to insert a small screwdriver in between the coolant hose and the metal pipe that is holding on to the hose to free it. If any of the coolant hoses are cracked or otherwise worn out you should replace them. It’s better to do it when you’re doing this then having to change them later and having to remove the stuff you just installed.

Now finally you can get started. Make sure you take your time so you don’t accidentally miss something that could end up costing you big $$$ (Such as putting pushrods in the wrong order, or forgetting to put RTV sealant on the ridges between the heads). It took me approx. 4 days working 2 hours a day to finish everything.

1.) Disconnect the cable from the negative terminal of the battery.
2.) Relieve the Fuel system pressure by removing the cap on the end of the fuel rail (as seen in this picture
HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/fuelpressurerelief.jpg)) and then pushing the center pin in with a screwdriver
3.) Drain the oil from the oil pan by unscrewing the bolt near the bottom back of the pan (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/oilchange.jpg)
). Make sure you have the oil drain bucket underneath it before you completely unscrew it. This might be a good time to use the jack and jack stands so you can get underneath the car to reach the oil drain bolt. Also make sure you tighten the bolt back on when the oil is done draining so you don’t forget later.
4.) Remove the oil filter using the oil filter wrench you picked up earlier (Oil filter shown from above HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/oilfilter2.jpg) and from under the car with the splash guard removed HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/oilfilter1.jpg), note that the exhaust manifolds are circled in red and the filter is circled in white). It may also make it easier if you first remove the splash guard by removing a couple of wing nuts that hold it in place. Also have the oil bucket ready because there may be some oil spillage when you remove the filter. When you’re done you should put the new oil filter in so you don’t forget to do so later.
5.) Drain the coolant by loosening the green wing nut near the bottom of the radiator (As seen HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/coolantdrain.jpg)). Also make sure you have a bucket underneath where the coolant will drain out so you don’t have coolant spilling everywhere. Make sure to squeeze the upper radiator hose so you get all/most of the coolant drained. (NOTE: There are also some engine block coolant plugs that I did not remove to drain all of the coolant, but you can if you feel the need to)
6.) Remove the air intake ducts and electrical connections (making sure to label each electrical connection you remove) into components on the intake duct
7.) Remove the throttle cable and cruise control cable from the throttle body. To do this, remove the outside cable first (it just unclips) and then the one on the inside by rotating the spring back so the TB is at WOT, and then taking the cable and removing it from the groove.
8.) Remove the throttle cable mount by removing the 2 bolts on the top of it and the nut located on the bottom left of the TB.
9.) Remove the bolts that hold the TB (The upper left one is show in the picture
HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/tbremoval.jpg)) in place and then disconnect the coolant lines going into the TB. If the coolant lines are stubborn and won’t come off, you may need to cut them and then replace them later with special 3/8" (Correct me if I’m wrong) rubber hosing (Not just any ordinary hose
, make sure it can withstand the corrosion of the coolant). The TB should come off fairly easily and then just set it and its bolts aside.
10.) Remove and label the electrical connection going into the EGR and remove the 2 bolts that hold it in place (The EGR is shown HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/egrbolts.jpg) and one of its bolts). Then remove it and set it aside.
11.) Remove the spark plug wires from the coil pack, then label and remove the 3 electrical connections going into the coil pack. Now remove the 4 bolts that hold the coil pack in place (Electrical connections and bolt locations shown in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/coilpackout.jpg)). Now pull out the coil pack and set it aside.
12.) Remove the MAP by first removing the hose connected to the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Remove the 2 bolts/screws on the back of the MAP using a small socket, and the electrical connection on the bottom of the MAP. Now you should have a straight shot at one of the Upper Intake Manifold bolts that was hidden under it (Shown
HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/mapremoval.jpg)) .
13.) Unclamp and remove the hose going into the top of the UIM and then remove the remaining hose near the front TB end of the UIM.
14.) Remove the 6 UIM bolts starting from the outside and working your way toward the center. You should be able to now remove the UIM by just lifting straight up.
15.) For this step, make sure you have already relieved the fuel system pressure. To remove the fuel return line, you need a large wrench (A crescent wrench works well here) for the bottom nut on the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and a smaller wrench for the fuel feed line nut (Both nuts are shown in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/fuellineremoval2.jpg) with the FPR nut circled in red and the fuel feed line nut circled in white, also note this is with the fuel rail removed).

Since the post is too long, I'm going to have to split it up

angrysk8r
04-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Part 2

16.) NOTE: This step is optional, this is only if you plan to remove the fuel rail and fuel injectors from the LIM and is not necessary in the LIM gasket change. Start off by labeling the electrical connections going to the fuel injectors and the connection going into the T-stat housing (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/labelinjectorwires.jpg)), note that I labeled the wires with the corresponding number on the intake runners, not to the actual cylinder they were going to, label them whichever way makes more sense to you). Remove the electrical connection going to the T-stat housing and remove the electrical connections going to the injectors (To do this there is a little metal clip on the bottom of the electrical connectors that you first need to push up). You now should be able to lift the fuel rail (with the injectors still attached to the fuel rail) from the LIM (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/fuelrailremoval.jpg)). If it doesn't come off easily, you may need to rock it back and forth first to free it. To remove the injectors from the rail, you need to first need to unclip the small metal clip that holds the injector onto the rail, and then you should be able to pull the injector out.
To install the injectors first inspect the O-rings for wear or corrosion and make sure that nothing is obstucting either end of the injector. Put the metal clip back on to the injector and just push it back onto the fuel rail (If the injector won't go onto the fuel rail easily, it should be ok to use a small amount of clean motor oil on the O-ring to help it slide into the hole). To install the fuel rail, first reconnect the electrical connections going into the injectors, and then position the fuel rail on the LIM making sure the ends of the injectors are lined up to their corresponding holes. Now you should be able to just push the fuel rail and injectors back into position on the LIM (making sure the injectors are seated correctly and firmly). Put the 2 bolts back on the rail and then reconnect the fuel return line and feed lines. Finally put the last electrical connection back on the T-stat housing. Pressurize the fuel system by putting the key in the ON position (Without trying to start the engine) and inspect for fuel leaks. If there are any, replace the O-ring where you think the problem area may be, reinstall the fuel rail, and try again.
17.) Remove the T-stat bypass hose from the metal coolant line that runs across the top of the LIM, and then undo the small bottom bolt that holds the coolant bleeder on (The T-stat bypass hose is hilighted in white and the small bolt is circled in white in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/TShoseandTSbypass.jpg)). Now unclamp and remove other end of the coolant hose that goes past where the TB would be and then set the T-stat bypass aside.
18.) Remove the T-stat housing by first unclamping removing upper radiator hose, and then the end that goes into the coolant resivoir. Then undo the 2 bolts that hold the housing in place (The coolant lines are hilighted in blue in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/TShoseandTSbypass.jpg) and where the 2 housing bolts used to be can be seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/thermostatbolts.jpg)), also be prepared for some coolant spillage. Now you can remove the actual T-stat by just pulling it out.
19.) Remove the bolt that's securing the heater pipe bracket in place and remove the heater pipe from the T-stat housing (This can easily be done by using a screwdriver to slide off the pipe as shown in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/lineintohousing.jpg)).
20.) Remove the cruise control actuator (The black box near the coolant resivoir) by removing the 2 bolts that hold it in place and set it aside.
21.) Rotate the tensioner pulley to relieve the tension on the serpentine belt and then slide the belt off of the pulleys.
22.) Remove the alternator by first removing the 2 bolts and then removing the 1 nut that hold it in place. Then remove the nut that holds the large guage electrical wire to the alternator, remove the remaining electrical connection, and then set the alternator aside.
23.) Remove one of the engine mount bolts (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/engingmountbolt.jpg)) and then using a U-joint and by rotating the power steering pulley, you should have a clear shot at all 3 of the bolts that hold the power steering assembly to the engine (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/PSboltsremoval.jpg)). Now you should just be able to set the power steering assembly aside without disconnecting it.
24.) Remove the front valve cover by removing the 4 bolts that hold it on place (Easily seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/valvecoverbolts.jpg)). Remove any traces of the old valve cover gasket from the cover and the engine.
25.) Remove the back valve cover by also removing the 4 bolts that hold it in place. Note, some of the bolts such as the one near the alternator may be a major PITA to get to. It may be easier to use a small wrench instead of a ratchet.
26.) Loosen and then remove the LIM mounting bolts (8 in all, 4 on the top where the fuel rail would be and 2 on each side).
27.) You should now be able to lift the LIM off of the rest of the engine (As seen in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/limisoff.jpg), also note that I had the rocker arms and pushrods already uninstalled when I took the picture) . If it's stuck, it may require some force to lift.
28.) Loosen the 12 rocket arm bolts like I did in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/rockerarmremoval.jpg) (It's not necessary to remove them completely, even though I did so I could inspect them for wear) and either rotate them out of the way of the pushrods or set them aside (I put the rocker arms in the order they came off, although it shouldn't really matter). Now you should be able to remove the 12 pushrods as I did in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/pushrodremoval.jpg) (Note, I actually did this with the LIM still on, it doesn't matter for the removal). NOTE: When you remove the pushrods, MAKE SURE you put them in the correct order they came out (As I did in the picture HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/rodsrockersinorder.jpg), the order I found easiest to put them in was: The 6 pushrods on the left are from the front of the engine, in order, from the pulley end of the engine to the TB end of the engine, and the same with the right 6 from the back of the engine). If you install the pushrods in the incorrect order you will cause some serious engine damage.
29.) Remove the old LIM gaskets and then using the razor blades you bought earlier, remove as much gasket material and RTV sealant from the bottom of the LIM and the top of the engine (Be careful not to score the metal using the razor blades). Now using the Acetone or paint thinner and a rag, remove what is left of the gasket material and the old RTV sealant until there is virtually no traces left of the old material.

angrysk8r
04-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Part 3

30.) Put the new LIM gaskets in place and put a new bead of RTV sealant along the ridge between the heads (The RTV sealant bead should be ~5mm).
31.) Reinstall the pushrods (making sure they are in the correct order) and put the rocker arms and bolts in finger tight (Making sure the small ridge on the bottom of the rocket arm pedestal lines up with the in the heads). Now torque all the rocker arms to 168 in-lbs, then tighten the bolt an additional 30 degrees.
32.) Slowly and Carefully lower the LIM into place on the heads MAKING SURE that it is perfectly lined up (It's easiest to tell by the ridges along where the valve cover gaskets used to be).
33.) Coat the LIM bolts with the pipe thread sealant and then put them in finger tight.
34.) Torque the top 4 LIM bolts to 62 in-lbs in this tightening sequence:
4 - 2
3 - 1
35.) Torque the 4 side LIM bolts to 115 in-lbs in this tightening sequence:
8 - 6
7 - 5
36.) Reinstall the valve covers with new valve cover gaskets.
37.) Reinstall the Power steering assembly.
38.) Reinstall the Engine mount bolt.
39.) Bolt the alternator back on.
40.) Route the serpentine belt back into the correct pulleys (There should be a diagram somewhere near the pulleys), rotate the tensioner pulley counter clockwise, and then reinstall the serpentine belt making sure the grooves are correctly aligned.
41.) Bolt the cruise control actuator back to the engine bay.
42.) Push the heater pipe back onto the T-stat housing the bolt the bracket back on.
43.) Reinstall the thermostat (making sure you put a new O-ring on) and then bolt the thermostat housing back on. Now using new hose clamps, reinstall the line from the T-stat housing back onto the coolant resivoir and reinstall the T-stat bypass hose.
44.) Reinstall the upper radiator hose using a new hose clamp.
45.) Put the fuel feed line and the fuel return line back into the fuel rail and tighten the 2 nuts back on.
46.) Remove and clean any old UIM gasket material off, and then put 2 new UIM gaskets on top of the LIM.
47.) Install the new EGR gaskets, lower the UIM into place and put the 6 bolts in finger tight (Don't forget to put the MAP bracket back on the middle top UIM bolt).
48.) Torque the UIM bolts to 18 ft-lbs working your way from the center bolts out (No specific tightening sequence on the 3400).
49.) Reinstall the EGR and tighten the 2 bolts.
50.) Reinstall the MAP to its bracket and the 2 plugs on the UIM.
51.) Put the 2 PCV lines back into position.
52.) Put the coil pack assembly back into position, clip the 3 electrical connections back in, and tighten the 2 bolts and 2 nuts that hold it in place.
53.) Reinstall the TB and clamp the 2 coolant hoses back onto the T-stat bypass hose.
54.) Bolt the throttle line assembly back onto the TB and put the 2 throttle lines back onto the TB.
55.) Reinstall the intake tubing and reconnect all of the electrical connections, including the hose that goes to the top of the UIM, and the smaller hose that goes to the bottom front of the UIM.
56.) Put 4.5 liters of oil into the engine.
57.) Fill the coolant resivoir up to the "full cold" mark and then squeeze the upper radiator hose to start getting the air out of the coolant system, then refill up to the cold mark.
58.) Reconnect the battery and then start the car. Look all around the engine and inspect for leaks (Note, there may be some smoke coming from the exhaust manifolds, this is probably just coolant/oil that you spilled on them earlier).
59.) Bleed the coolant system by unscrewing the bleed screw (The screw on top of the T-stat bypass hose "pillar") and then running the engine until a solid stream of coolant flows out.
60.) Take a nap


If you see anything I left out, misspelled, etc make sure to let me know.

O1GAGT
04-11-2006, 10:11 PM
Like you said above the pushrod order is very important. Here is a pic and a description of the proper order.

The longer pushrods are the Exhaust and the shorter pushrods are the Intake.

When I did my swap I noticed something that I had not seen mentioned before. What I noticed was that the exhaust pushrods seem to go behind the gasket where as the intake or the shorter pushrods sit on the outside of the gasket.

Looking at this picture at the front head you can kind of see what I am talking about. The proper order for the front head starting from the left hand side would be E, I, I, E, I, E The rear head starting from the left would be E, I, E, I, I, E

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/a2d2aba0.jpg

dna_dan
04-13-2006, 05:33 PM
Hey man what gasket kit is that? I used the Felpro kit and they just use RTV on the block ends. :banghead

I ended up making my own gasket for the block ends. I personally think that method is superior to just using RTV. Mine leaked the first time around with just RTV. I made some gaskets for the block ends and now I am tight and dry.:applause:

angrysk8r
04-13-2006, 08:33 PM
Hey man what gasket kit is that? I used the Felpro kit and they just use RTV on the block ends. :banghead

I ended up making my own gasket for the block ends. I personally think that method is superior to just using RTV. Mine leaked the first time around with just RTV. I made some gaskets for the block ends and now I am tight and dry.:applause:

I don't remember exatly what kit it was, I just picked it up from napa and it had both the upper and lower intake gaskets

The haynes manual specified using RTV sealant just for the ridges in between the heads, if you have pictures of the gasket you made, I'd like to see it, I also personally thought the RTV sealant didn't seem like it would work very well

dna_dan
04-17-2006, 12:40 PM
Unfortunately it was the second time around that I had the thing apart and the last thing on my mind was taking photos.:hammer:

I basically bought a package which included 5 different gasket material sheets from Autozone. I used the grey sheet, which felt like a paper/fiber gasket. I didn't want to use any rubber type material because unless it has the portions that "hang" on the sides, those materials tend to squeeze out of the gap once you torque it down. If you look on the ones you used, they have those side pieces hanging so the gasket stays put while torqing the manifold down.

I cut the gasket material with scissors to match the faces that sealed up to it. They did NOT overlap with the gaskets that lay on the head. I then used "ultra black" RTV which the guy at autozone said was the best RTV out there for this type of job. I can say this "ultra black" RTV was 10 times better than what came in the felpro kit. I put this RTV on both sides on the paper gasket. Basically making a sandwich out of it. I also used RTV around both water jackets. I know those gaskets aren't designed to have RTV on them, but this was my second time doing this job in 3 days and I wasn't about to do it a third time! When all was said and done, I used about 1/2 tube of that stuff and I must say it cured really well. I did not wipe the excess because I did not want to create a weak spot or air gap in the seal. My paper gasket did not squeeze outward, although I suppose it could have squeezed inward. I dunno, but going on a month now and I am dry as a bone! Coolant never looked as good as it does now. I also switched to a NON-branded dexcool compatible formula. :amraam:

wushdishmeen
12-14-2006, 06:30 PM
Can you post the EXACT part numbers for all the non "oil change/coolant flush" related items on that list for a 99 gt?

Meaning:

Thermostat w/O-Ring
12 Fuel Injector o-rings
Thread sealant
RTV Sealant
LIM Gasket Kit
TB gasket
EGR Gasket
valve cover gaskets


Please?!

angrysk8r
12-14-2006, 06:55 PM
Sorry, but I didn't write down the part numbers, I just went into napa and told them what kind of car I had (year, model, etc) and they were able to order the exact parts I needed. However, many of the part numbers you may need should be listed here:
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56283
Napa wasn't all that expensive either, but I'm sure if you looked around in the yellow pages you might be able to find a parts store with better prices.

wushdishmeen
12-14-2006, 07:24 PM
Hmm does anybody know the part numbers? On Rockauto.com I found these two parts...which seems to include multiple parts needed into one package...tell me if i am correct?

Emission : EGR Valve Gasket
CORTECO Part # 34234 {EGR Valve Gasket}
Graphite; Includes EGR Valve Mounting And EGR Tube Gaskets, $4.14


Engine : Intake Manifold Gasket Set
FEL-PRO Part # MS98003T
OHV engine; Complete set; Valve cover gskts. & Upper set incl.; PermaDryPlus® int. manifold gskts. incl. $68.79


The EGR Valve Gasket seems to include the EGR Valve Gasket and the EGR Tube Gasket. The Manifold gasket set seems to include the (2) Valve cover gaskets and the upper and lower intake gaskets.

IS THIS CORRECT? please let me know. I cannot find the Throttle Body gasket on this site, and I dont know where to get the thread and rtv sealants or the 12 fuel injector o rings.

wushdishmeen
12-14-2006, 07:41 PM
Here is a photo of my cart on rockauto.com

Can you please verify I have everything needed except the RTV and Thread Sealants? Thanks.

http://wushdishmeen.tnt.gs/cart.JPG

wushdishmeen
12-15-2006, 04:31 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-3-4L-PONTIAC-Grand-AM-Full-Gasket-Set-VIN-E-OHV_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33667QQhashZitem220 052364367QQihZ012QQitemZ220052364367QQrdZ1#ebaypho tohosting

i also found that it supposedly is a kit on ebay for $75 that has everything...? are those the updated gaskets?

angrysk8r
12-16-2006, 11:27 PM
I'd say your best bet is to find a local parts store instead of ordering something online only to find out it's not what you needed.

the 12 fuel injector O rings are just a standard part you can find at just about any automotive store or dealer, the RTV sealant and thread sealer should be sold at just about any hardware store as well.

ryanbgb22
12-17-2006, 12:18 AM
:applause: very informative, good to see someone took the initiative to do a complete walk through on this... seeing that mine was already replaced im hoping that i will never have to follow these directions lol

digitalballz
12-17-2006, 04:13 PM
Way too much to read!! Just take apart, and put back together. Not that hard.

angrysk8r
12-19-2006, 06:04 PM
Way too much to read!! Just take apart, and put back together. Not that hard.

If you have little experiance with automotive mechanics it can be quite scary, especially when you have your ride to work on the line.

westpak
01-10-2007, 09:18 PM
Very nice write up, it helped a lot, I just finished taking it apart and will put it back together tomorrow, man all that sludge.

I found the LIM bolts really lose.

One comment on the steps is that removing the throttle body is not necessary.

Also look at what elsse you want to do while you have this level of disassembly like Spark Plugs, thermostat, drive belt and with 65k I am changing the alternator as well.

alerored04
01-12-2007, 08:41 PM
Quick question, i am in the middle of my limg swap, and i am having a tough time with the valve cover bolt nearest the alternator on the rear valve cover. The bracket for the idler and tensioner pulleys is in the way so much that i cannot get anything in there to get it loose, i even tried to put a wrench on it vertically and use a vise grip to turn it. The wrench couldnt grip the bolt head and i am scared of rounding it off. Do i need to remove the bracket? Or is there a better way to do this?

alerored04
01-12-2007, 10:27 PM
Never mind i got it.

LoboMan7409
01-12-2007, 11:09 PM
Nice how too, I should have taken pictures to put up when I just did mine

Plug
01-13-2007, 01:43 AM
Here is a pic of what I saw when I got my LIM apart....

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2222000-2222999/2222979_17_full.jpg

westpak
01-13-2007, 08:17 AM
Yeah, mine looked like that if nt worse plus the oil/coolant sludge all over the place.

There is a technical bulletin with revised torque numbers for the plenum bolts:

1. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).
2. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).
3. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 13 N.m (115 lb in).
4. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 25 N.m (18 lb ft).

After I did step 4 I went back and checked the vertical bolts and they were slightly lose so I retorqued them, maybe that was a mistake but I remember them being so lose when I took it apart I figured it was worth a shot.

Hot_Stud18
01-14-2007, 05:04 PM
Oh and if anyone is real lazy all I did with mine was add in half a bottle of Bar's Leak Liquid Aluminum stop leak(cost about 3 bucks) and that sealed up the leak rather nicely:) Its been going on a few weeks now leak free.

gectek
01-14-2007, 05:12 PM
Here is a pic of what I saw when I got my LIM apart....

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2222000-2222999/2222979_17_full.jpg

MMMM...applesauce, thats almost what i saw, but mine only started at 160k mi so mine looked like carlsbad caverns. thats why when i put it all back together i switched to the prestone yellow. no probs yet

geldartb
01-14-2007, 05:36 PM
no more dex for me. back to good ol green. hopefully it will last longer this time.

canadian_racer
01-14-2007, 05:41 PM
Can you use green antifreeze in a car that came with dexcool?

gectek
01-14-2007, 05:42 PM
i think you can, but it really isnt formulated for alum engine parts and may have the tendency to mess them up if you dont flush it every year, thats why i use the yellow

Sprucegagt
01-15-2007, 07:36 AM
i think you can, but it really isnt formulated for alum engine parts and may have the tendency to mess them up if you dont flush it every year, thats why i use the yellow

The green stuff is formulated for use with aluminum parts. It just has a shorter service life than Dexcool, thus why you have to flush it regularly.

alerored04
01-15-2007, 11:42 PM
after just finishing this fix, and going through my haynes to double check torque specs, the UIM in the walkthrough is listed as torqing to 18 ft/lbs. My haynes shows it at 115 in/lbs. Just thought i would post this so others using this might see it.

lone_wolf025
01-16-2007, 01:35 AM
Basically according to the manual you'd need about half of the 18 lb-ft of torque. 115 is roughly about 9 or 10 lb-ft (9.5) for those who want to be picky.

westpak
01-16-2007, 05:45 AM
Alldata also has you using 18 ft-lbs but be careful, the rear driver's side bolt broke off half of the Lower plenum bolt hole, and after what I had gon through I wasn't replacing the Lower plenum, so using 5 bolts instead of 6 to hold the upper plenum

alerored04
01-16-2007, 02:22 PM
thats why i thought i would post it, i retorqued mine as soon as i saw that mistype.

cals400ex
01-21-2007, 11:54 PM
so is the 18 ft lbs wrong for the diagonal LIM bolts? or is that the correct revised number?


also, is it best to get a complete coolant flush before doing this job? i hate to pay the cash for a complete flush right before i have to drain all of the coolant again but how else would you clean the coolant system out?

gectek
01-21-2007, 11:58 PM
just take the t stat out for the coolant flush, i would do one after the whole gasket replacement, and taking the t stat out makes flushing the coolant a little quicker and easier, plus you dont have to worry about sediment building up ont eh back side of the t stat

cals400ex
01-22-2007, 12:08 AM
and how exactly are you flushing it? or have a shop do it?

gectek
01-22-2007, 12:12 AM
well i used to use the good ol 2 part prestone powder flush, but most of the stores dont sell it anymore, so you can get a flush kit with the T to put in the heater lines, but i didnt do that, i just run the prestone liquid flush through it real good, maybe use 2 bottles and follow the directions. any autoparts store is gonna have multiple types of flushes, so take your pick, but id use name brand and well proven flushes/kits. i do all my work on my car myself, i have better quality control then and ive had bad probs with mechanics leaving stuff off or contaminating my oil/coolant and i save a load on labor also

cals400ex
01-22-2007, 12:17 AM
i have heard before to use 1/2 white vinegar and 1/2 distilled water. they say it is safe for the seals and stuff but i am almost scared to try it....

gectek
01-22-2007, 12:18 AM
good for pickling also

i have no idea about the vinegar, sounds rather smelly to me

cals400ex
01-22-2007, 12:40 AM
i have used it before in my atv and it worked good. but i am a little more cautious with my car than my atv's. i mean the atv's have thermastats, seals, sensors, etc and nothing was harmed. well, not that i know of anyways.

gectek
01-22-2007, 01:01 AM
over 1,000,000 customers cant be wrong

wushdishmeen
02-03-2007, 04:30 AM
Has anyone or can anyone make a video walkthrough for this job? I'm seriously not confident doing this with just words and links to pictures. My printer doesnt have ink to print all those huge pictures out first of all and it would be more convenient to hear someone mention the part they are removing and visually seeing it at the same time.

Maybe im stupid but I want to do this right and only once. I do not have hundreds of dollars to have this done and I need to do it myself. I have the felpro complete kit and tb gasket , everything i need in front of me. Im just afraid to start it.

ihatemygrandamg
02-03-2007, 05:01 AM
Its really not that hard. The hard part is removing everything to get to little bolts here and there,and remember what goes where and what plugs into what.

But if you start and cant even figure out how to get your tb off, then Id have someone else do it. Im 17 and have no automotive training and I did mine bymyself.

Also make sure you have an inch/lb torque wrench and all the torque specs for everything.

wushdishmeen
02-03-2007, 04:00 PM
It's not that I think it's hard I'm just skeptical I might screw something small up that will cause a big problem. I do not have a torque wrench I don't think.

Also since theres most likely a buildup of nasty gunky stuff throughout the coolant, is there a good way to flush that all out? I see that the walkthrough says that there is other drain****s on the engine block but its not necessary?

Can I flush the coolant system after the gasket job is done or should it be done before?


One last thing, with the permadry felpro gaskets where EXACTLY do I put RTV sealant. Where is this ridge between the heads? Can you just give me a picture diagram. Thnx

ihatemygrandamg
02-04-2007, 10:57 AM
They make bottles of radiator flush that you flush through your engine along with water. Not sure if you know but you should also get a new tstat and plugs for the lim gasket change. A torque wrench really is recomended so you dont overtighten them and break the bolts or not tight enough and they come loose; you can buy a cheap in/lbs from a parts sotre for about $20.

You put rtv on the side key ways where the bottom of the lim sits between the heads. No diagram really needed, youd see where it is cuz theres no gasket supplied for that area.

I was kind of worried I would mess something up too, but as long as you torque everything down right and put everything back where it belongs, you should be good.

gectek
02-04-2007, 01:05 PM
if you look at the TB side, it is on the front and back, it looks just like the ridge on a small block chevy, and no the other drain****s arent necessary, just use the one on the radiator, also flush it before you work on it, and i would flush it after also, due to some foreign debris getting in there, along with solvents and such. also the RTV should go on the upper ridge of the head too i think, just to keep the top peaks of the gasket in place, and also a good amount of RTV all around the water jackets just to make sure they dont leak. while you are in there, check the condition on the rad hoses and the bypass line that run from the tstat outlet to the top of the return bottle, take all the hoses off, wash them and blow them out with compressed air, or just replace them in general like i did, good preventative measure. you can rent the torque wrenches from your local parts store, or snag a good one on ebay. just make sure to use a high quality one. if i can get my vid camera in time and when i get my LIM in, then i will try and post up a how to video on the whole shebang

ihatemygrandamg
02-04-2007, 03:29 PM
Your lim is on its way ;)

wushdishmeen
02-04-2007, 08:57 PM
when do you expect to get your LIM in? I would be very happy if you made a video of the whole ordeal. Let me know!


Is replacing the t-stat completely necessary? I'm kinda strapped for cash because i also need new tires. So if it isnt necessary ill probably just keep the old one, or possibly theres a way to clean it off and "renew" it kinda. Im not sure.

Basically tomarrow I am going to pickup oil, antifreeze, threadlock, and a torque wrench and either start the job tomarrow night or if u think u can make the video soon ill wait. Just get back to me, thanks.

Also can someone take the picture on page 1 of this post and circle where the "ridge between the heads" is and the other spots you should put RTV. Sorry to sound stupid but i just want to take all precautions as this is my ride to work.

gectek
02-04-2007, 10:52 PM
he has the new 3500 type lower intake gaskets that seal the valley, but you can use RTV , i think it will seal a little better in the cracks. and also all along that ridge of the gasket on both sides up both heads and around the water jackets.

also on the video, it will have to wait for a little bit because my car was in an accident and i have to get it fixed first, if you wanna see pics ill have them posted soon.

also there is no real way to "recondition" the t stat, i know alot of them use wax pellets that expand and contract to allow proper operation, so when those wear out, thats it folks, or the spring can wear also, and some use bimetallic springs, so if you are unsure, then just take the old t stat and put it in boiling water to clean it good, and if you have a thermometer, you can check the engagement temp of the t stat to make sure it is working ok, the 180 t stats should open at like 170 i think, its usually about 10 degrees under what they are rated at, IIRC

and on the t stat also, make sure you dont reuse your old gasket, just go get a new one from GM...not the one in the kit, FROM GM, its only like $3 and its worth the trouble it think

ihatemygrandamg
02-05-2007, 07:37 AM
I understand your a little nervous and wanna take precautions in doing this job, but dont stress it too much. Its just a pita and time consuming. When I did mine I had my car parked in my friends driveway for about a week only being able to work on it about an hr a day if that. I was mainly waiting for my ported lim to come in which ups eff'd up and took forever; but turns out I couldnt even use it cause it didnt have the right heater plug I needed.

And a new thermostat with gasket only costs like $7-10. Not much at all. You might also want to change your oil with a cheap oil at first, then drain it to get any deposits or anything out from the change. Then put your normal oil in, I always used mobil 1.

angrysk8r
02-05-2007, 11:22 AM
I may have a blown headgasket...which means I basically have to redo all of this. Once I get some cash to buy all the gaskets and whatnot I'll post a video of most of the processes (it may be a little while until then though).

wushdishmeen
02-08-2007, 01:44 PM
Stop it angrysk8er...your scaring me.

It would just be f'ing dandy if I completed this job after all this just to find out something else like that is wrong. Heh.

I am probably going to tackle this job this weekend, so if that is too soon I guess i'm going to just do it.

Are thermostats universal or are they model specific? I originally had a thermostat in my cart when I ordered the felpro kit and it was a bit more then $10. If its easy to pickup at a auto store for cheap ill do that.

The felpro kit and TB gasket is sitting in my room, im ready to do this.


One more thing, where is the green thing to drain the coolant? I looked under the car on the bottom of the radiator and i cant find it.

Dave Carney
02-08-2007, 06:55 PM
if it's in the same place as an '02 model, its on the FRONT of the radiator, near the bottom, drivers side.

gectek
02-08-2007, 10:53 PM
yah its above the air dam on the drivers side, and youll have to use a 1/4 extension and ratchet to remove it, it is white plastic not green, and yah my car is still waiting for the insurance guy...srry

yes the t stats are kind of model specific, but any auto parts store will have a regular one for your GA

wushdishmeen
02-09-2007, 07:35 AM
can you flush your coolant with just water? or do you need to buy flushing solution.

if you can do it with water tell me how!

gectek
02-09-2007, 12:05 PM
they make a flushing kit that plugs inline into a hose and you just hook up a water hose to it, but first i would go get some prestone system cleaner and clean it really good, then drain, then use the water tap system to flush with pressurized water, that would be a good flush, but to make it easier you can take your t stat out that way you dont have to let it warm up to flush the whole system first

wushdishmeen
02-09-2007, 07:46 PM
I picked up a new thermostat today.

So let me get this correct.

Put in prestone flush. Run the car with heater on to circulate it, then drain.

Install the prestone flush kit and hookup hose and flush through.

Drain the oil.

Do the gasket job, then repeat the flushing again. Then to be safe change the oil again soon after its done?

gectek
02-09-2007, 08:58 PM
correct, thats all there is to it really

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 10:58 AM
Eh this stupid white nut on the radiator doesnt want to turn. I put a 1/4 extension in it and started turning and it seemed to start ripping the plastic so i stopped.

Why does angrysk8er have a green wing nut that looks simple to loosen and tighten?

Dave Carney
02-10-2007, 11:26 AM
get a flashlight and shine it on the thing so you can study what is going on....on the right side is a plastic pin riding in a slot, I think once you see where you have to make the pin go, you'll have better luck, its not just a turn gig, it's a turn and pull, go real slow.

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 11:57 AM
it will not turn!! urgh...whats the next best place to drain from other then this drainc0ck.

where is it and whats the best way to get to it?

i see people saying you can drain from lower rad hose..which hose is it and will this work the same way when you want to flush the whole system?

gectek
02-10-2007, 12:23 PM
no no no, it doesnt just turn out. there is a plastic tab that sticks out from the side of the cylinder, what i did was i accidentally twisted that one off, the new revised one from gm has a metal shaft that goes there so it wont twist off, but the plug should twist about a quarter turn, then the tab kinda pushes it out of the hole a little, but then you need to get a flat screwdriver behind it and pry it out, thats how it goes

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 12:35 PM
lmao nevermind! i just pulled it out with pliers and got blasted with coolant...haha thnx now to continue working

gectek
02-10-2007, 12:37 PM
to help in that and relieve the press in some of the syst. take off the fill tank cap and open the bleeder screw on top of the water pump, it should take a 5,6,or 7 mm 6 point socket, make sure you use a 6 point or you will round it off, and that sucks getting it out

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 01:25 PM
k well the whole nonsense with coolant is solved.

One thing is i couldnt find a torque wrench at either pepboys or autozone...wtf!

Is it absolutely necessary or can i just make sure I dont over or under torque the bolts

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-10-2007, 01:47 PM
How are you going to make sure you don't over/under torque them without a torque wrench? Ft lbs MAYBE, but not inch lbs... would be really tough to do that I think.

I got my torque wrenches from Harbor Freight, $29 for the ft lb, and $19 for the in lb.

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 01:59 PM
i dunno i never had to torque to specs before. im used to loosen bolt, tighten bolt, DONE.

heh...well i dont need the torque wrench till im reassembling anyways so I guess ill have to try and get it sometime before I finish.


The LIM gasket replacement now begins! wish me luck

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-10-2007, 02:58 PM
torque specs for an engine should be followed though, or you could have bigger problems later. Good luck, I did mine last weekend!

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 04:35 PM
UGH...already two bolts pissing me off. The rear bolts holding on the coil pack are giving me trouble. I cant find a deep enough socket to get those off, this sucks...i only have standard sockets at hand. im taking a break until i can find some.

ihatemygrandamg
02-10-2007, 04:48 PM
Your in for alot more than just that. When getting the lim off, swivel sockets really help!

Dave Carney
02-10-2007, 05:26 PM
lol....yes indeed....i think he should consider taking it some where. It takes a fair selection of tools, no deep sockets, no torque wrench, no way.

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Hmm.. well screw you guys I got it off. The UIM is off and im about to remove the nuts for the fuel pressure regulator.

and just because i dont have deep sockets in front of me doesnt mean take it to someone...its called going to the store and buying them?

thnx for the encouragement

wushdishmeen
02-10-2007, 07:07 PM
IM up to removing the front valve cover...but my back is killing me so im stopping until tomarrow. this isnt that bad.

Just taking your time with the directions and taking a break in between its 100x better then spending $800

angrysk8r
02-10-2007, 11:18 PM
this isnt that bad.


exactly, the walkthrough may look long and complicated but once you start getting your hands dirty it isn't that bad at all.

gectek
02-11-2007, 12:29 AM
yah i would rather use a shorty wrench than the swivel sockets, they like to round stuff off sometimes. a short 10mm will work fine, and also why did you think you could work on a newer GM without metric tools?...;)

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 01:51 AM
I was wrong i had deep sockets.

I did not think i could work on a gm vehicle without metric tools? A torque wrench was something I wasnt aware id need at first. Plus both auto stores i went to around here have none.

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 02:19 PM
The old LIM gasket is off!!!

I found that the bolts holding the LIM on were all so loose! Why is that? Does this mean the bolts or bad or that they just need threadlock? The threads on them look fine.

what should I do before reinstalling everything?

ihatemygrandamg
02-11-2007, 03:27 PM
I LOVE my ratcheting wrenches. So much easier that using regualr wrenches and fit where sockets cant.

Use threadlocker on all of your bolts and make sure you torque them right ;)

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-11-2007, 03:36 PM
make sure your mating surfaces are CLEAN!!!!

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 06:53 PM
okkkk i got a torque wrench that does both inch/lbs and lbs/inch and some other metric system. gotta figure out how to work this thing lol.


Eh another thing, when I was doing the step to "relieve the fuel system pressure" i pushed that pin in and gas was spraying out along with the air...i figured u just press it a little to get air out and thats it but im guessing you had to let it all out??? cuz when I took out the fuel rail with the injectors a little fuel came out.

This is also a concern cuz i have this phobia with anything flammable. Will this fuel dry off on its own or should i somehow try to clean it all. Because im afraid of like starting the car when its done and the heat igniting it or something, lolll.

i dunno. any info guys?

BHermis
02-11-2007, 07:29 PM
I love hearing from someone working along with me. I just replaced LIM and Valve cover gaskets and still working. I'm about to go to day three with about 5 hours a day. Looks like a 12 hr job for 2 wrenchers. Of course this is my first time to ever work on a car and I have add my fair share of mess ups. When i have the time i'm going to write a long post to give some warnings to newbees. LIKE DONT OVERTIGHTEN YOUR VALVE COVER BOLTS!!!! (cause they break...) yah and then you have to find a way to get the broken peice out and then cut the bolt in half cause its a captured/trapped bolt. But besides that before i put everything on I have one more question. I used a TON of black silicon cause i wanted to make sure that bad boy sealed. Is this OK? Should i be concerned? I was more worried about leaking than looking bad. That is the only part that scares me. More info to come when i finish. Oh yah and I got some gas in the face too when i pressed that little valve release... It won't kill you, it will just evaporate away.

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-11-2007, 07:35 PM
Don't worry about the fuel... it will evaporate from your engine. Be sure to replace your O-rings for your fuel supply line and your return line!!!! I forgot to do this, and I had a fuel leak and had to take it apart again. Good you got one torque wrench, you need a ft/lbs one now and you are all set.

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 07:54 PM
the torque wrench does inch pounds and pounds inch...as well as mg klg or something. Im pretty sure the one bolt that needs to be lbs/inch or whatever can be converted to inch/lbs cant it?

im definately not buying another wrench for one bolt heh.

Another thing, why do you have to replace the injector o rings if i didnt even take the injectors out...?

an the fuel feed and return line oring seems fine, what would cause a fuel leak...

i already made several trips to the store from a ride from my mother and i dont plan on going out again before finishing the job...is this absolutely necessary to replace?


is there a way to check for fuel leaks before putting everything back on??


k and finally the rtv, i edited this pic so where its red is where i think the rtv should go...correct me if im wrong?

http://wushdishmeen.tnt.gs/rtv.JPG

BHermis
02-11-2007, 08:18 PM
If thats where it goes then i'm screwed. I just did it and I only did it on the flat surfaces, i did not got up the side because the gasket is there. Though i think i'm alright. Do you have the LIM off with the new gasket on? If so it should be obvious where the RTV goes.

angrysk8r
02-11-2007, 08:26 PM
the torque wrench does inch pounds and pounds inch...as well as mg klg or something. Im pretty sure the one bolt that needs to be lbs/inch or whatever can be converted to inch/lbs cant it?
Umm I'm sorry but I don't exactly know how to answer that...I didn't know there was such thing as lbs/inch on a torque wrench...You should only need to worry about in/lbs. Although, you will need another torque wrench that reads ft/lbs for the UIM.

To answer your other questions, you don't need to replace the injector O-rings if you didn't take the injectors out (and even if you did, you probably won't need to). The fuel feed and return line O-rings have a tendency to sort of shread up or just not seal right after you take the fittings off. It's not necessary to replace them if you're lucky.
A good way to check if your fuel system is leak free is to connect and tighten all of the fittings back up, hook up the battery, and then just turn the ignition key to ON (but don't actually try to start the car). You should hear the fuel system pressurizing and if you have any leaks you should easily be able to see them. Also, your picture seems to be mostly right, but the RTV is only needed on the sort of "S" shaped ridges in between the heads, there doesn't need to be any RTV on the heads themselves as the gasket should already seal there.

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 08:30 PM
eh what i meant is cant Ft/Lbs be converted into Inch/Lbs?

1 foot is 12 inches...seems logical doesnt it?

Plus there was a few posts in here questioning the torques of the bolts.


What is the CORRECT torque for the 4 UIM bolts, and what is the CORRECT torque for the LIM bolts?

I think that covers all my questions for now

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 08:39 PM
Lol yea you guys are spending extra money for no reason. In the manual for the wrench it says specifically.

Conversion Formulas:

1 Ft-Lbs = 12 In-Lbs

So 18 Ft-Lbs = 216 In-Lbs for the UIM bolts.

Also if you are really supposed torque the lower diagnol bolt of the LIM to 18Ft-Lbs then that is 215 In-Lbs as well. But then I see people saying they torqued that bolt to that and it cracked the plenum hole or something.

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-11-2007, 09:43 PM
First off, it's always nice to have tools for other jobs. Does your wrench go up to 1236 in/lbs? 103 ft/lbs needed if you wanted to do the camshaft sprocket bolt sometime.... Not this job but still (Ft/lbs wrench was only $29) Secondly, the supply o-ring has a tendency to expand when it is exposed, and getting it to go back in without tearing it up or rolling off is a shot in the dark. Be sure to use vaseline on it and you'll have better luck. Torque specs for the LIM bolts is 115 in/lbs. (Which is NOT 18 ft/lbs.) Here are all the engine fastener torque specs for you.

Accelerator Control Cable Bracket Bolt/Nut 89 inch lbs.
Air injection Check Valve - with NC1 California Emissions 15 ft. lbs.
Air Injection Check Valve Front Bracket Bolt/Nut - with NC1 California 18 ft.lbs.
Emissions Air Injection Check Valve Bolt/Nut - with NC1 California Emissions 89 inch lbs.
Air Injection Check Valve Pipe Adapter - with NC1 California Emissions 22 ft. lbs.
Air Injection Check Valve Pipe Assembly Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Air Injection Check Valve Rear Bracket Bolt/Nut - with NC1 California 18 ft. lbs.
Emissions Air Injection Solenoid Bolt - with NC1 California Emissions 89 inch lbs.
Camshaft position sensor bolt 89 in.lbs.
Camshaft thrust plate screw 89in.lbs.
Connecting rod bearing cap nut First Pass 15 ft.lbs.
Final Pass 75°
Camshaft Sprocket Bolt 103 ft. lbs.
Coolant drain plug 14 ft.lbs.
Coolant temperature sensor 17 ft.lbs.
Crankshaft Balancer Bolt First Pass 52 ft.lbs.
Final Pass 72°
Crankshaft main bearing cap bolt/stud First Pass 37 ft.lbs.
Final Pass 77°
Crankshaft oil deflector nut 18 ft.lbs.
Crankshaft position sensor bolt-front cover 89 in.lbs.
Crankshaft position sensor stud-side of engine block 98 in.lbs.
Crankshaft position sensor shield nut 98 in.lbs.
Crankshaft position sensor wiring bracket bolt 30 ft.lbs.
Cylinder head bolt First Pass 33 ft.lbs.


Final Pass 95°


Drive Belt Tensioner Bolt 37 ft. lbs.
EGR valve adapter pipe to exhaust manifold nut 18 ft.lbs.
EGR valve pipe to EGR valve bolt 18 ft.lbs.
Engine front cover bolt Large bolt 41 ft.lbs.
Medium bolt 41 ft.lbs.
Small bolt 20 ft.lbs.
Engine Mount Bracket Front Bolt 75 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount Bracket Side Bolt 43 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount to Body Nut 49 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount Strut and A/C Compressor Bracket Bolt 37 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount Strut and Lift Bracket Bolt - Engine Lift Rear 52 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount Strut and Generator Bracket Bolt 37 ft. lbs.
Engine Mount Strut and Support Bracket Medium Bolt 41 ft. lbs.
Large Bolt 41 ft. lbs.
Small Bolt 20 ft. lbs.
Exhaust Crossover Pipe Bolt 18 ft. lbs.
Engine Oil Pressure Indicator Switch 115 inch lbs.
Engine Wiring Harness Bracket Bolt 115 inch lbs.
Exhaust Manifold Heat Shield Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Exhaust Manifold Nut 12 ft. lbs.
Exhaust Manifold Stud 13 ft. lbs.
Exhaust Crossover Pipe Heat Shield Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Flywheel bolt 52 ft.lbs.
Fuel Feed and Return Pipe Bracket Stud 37 ft. lbs.
Fuel Feed and Return Pipe Retaining Clip Bolt 71 inch lbs.
Fuel Feed and Return Pipe Retaining Clip Nut 18 ft. lbs.
Fuel Feed Pipe To Fuel Injector Rail Nut 13 ft. lbs.
Fuel Injector Rail Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Fuel Pipe Clip Bolt 71 inch lbs.
Heated Oxygen Sensor 31 ft. lbs.
Heater Inlet Pipe Nut 18 ft. lbs.
Heater Inlet Pipe Stud 37 ft. lbs.
Ignition Coil Bracket Bolt/Nut/Stud 18 ft. lbs.
Intake Manifold Coolant Pipe Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Knock Sensor 14 ft. lbs.
Lower Intake Manifold Bolt Vertical 115 inch lbs.
Lower Intake Manifold Bolt Diagonal 115 inch lbs.
MAP Sensor Bolt 44 inch lbs.
MAP Sensor Bracket Bolt 18 ft. lbs.
Oil Cooler Connector 37 ft. lbs.
Oil Cooler Hose Fitting 14 ft. lbs.
Oil Cooler Pipe Bracket Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Oil Filter 22 ft. lbs.
Oil Filter Bypass Hole Plug 14 ft. lbs.
Oil filter adapter 21 ft.lbs.
Oil Filter Fitting 29 ft. lbs.
Oil Gallery Plug-1/4 inch 14 ft. lbs.
Oil Gallery Plug-3/8 inch 24 ft. lbs.
Oil Level Indicator Tube Bolt 18 ft. lbs.
Oil Level Sensor Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Oil Pan Bolt 18 ft. lbs.
Oil Pan Drain Plug 18 ft. lbs.
Oil Pan Side Bolt 37 ft. lbs.
Oil Pump Cover Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Oil Pump Drive Clamp Bolt 27 ft. lbs.
Oil Pump Mounting Bolt 30 ft. lbs.
Spark Plug - Initial Installation 20 ft. lbs.
Spark Plug - After Initial Installation 13 ft. lbs.
Thermostat Bypass Pipe to Engine Front Cover Bolt 106 inch lbs.
Thermostat Bypass Pipe to Throttle Body Nut 18 ft. lbs.
Transaxle bracket bolt 55 ft.lbs.
Throttle Body Bolt/Stud 18 ft. lbs.
Timing Chain Dampener Bolt 15 ft. lbs.
Upper Intake Manifold Bolt/Stud 18 ft. lbs.
Valve Lifter Guide Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Valve Rocker Arm Bolt First Pass 124 inch lbs.
Final Pass 30°
Valve Rocker Arm Cover Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Water Outlet Bolt 18 ft. lbs.
Water Pump Bolt 89 inch lbs.
Water Pump Pulley Bolt 18 ft. lbs.

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Okay so then all the LIM bolts torqued to 115Inch/Lbs
and all UIM bolts to 18Ft/Lbs?


Then why does the walkthrough state 62Inch/Lbs for the top LIM bolts and then 115Inch/Lbs for the Sides? This is incorrect?

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Technical specs referenced are from AllDataDIY.com along with the Haynes manual that I have and they are correct. The Haynes manual states to torque the LIM bolts to 62 in/lbs (step 1) and then to 115 in/lbs (step 2). You'll also notice that other torque specs for certain bolts list a degree to turn (step 2) after torquing (step 1). And yes, they specify that the UIM bolts should be torqued to 18 ft/lbs.

wushdishmeen
02-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Okay but you keep referring to the UIM bolts...the LIM say only two are 115inch/lbs...so the correct torque is ALL LIM bolts to 115inch/lbs?

Hah, edited just as i spoke! Alright cool thnx.

But honestly, it seems like any posters before this have no clue what the correct torque specs are...

First someone says "yea the revised tech bulletin states to torque LIM bolts to 62 lb/inch then retorque verticle LIM bolts to 115 and then diagnol LIM bolts to 18ft/lbs" then someone says the haynes manual says 115inch/lbs for all UIM bolts and the walkthrough states all UIM to 18ft/lbs

THEN someone says 18ft/lbs broke the lower plenum hole.

So wtf!!

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-11-2007, 11:02 PM
Yep, just go off of what I posted, and try not to get confused. :-)

alerored04
02-11-2007, 11:24 PM
And definately be careful when dealing with the injector on the fuel feed line. the o ring on mine tore and stayed in the rail, clogging one of my injectors and giving me a large and nasty miss. Had to pull it back down to the rail to clean it and replace the injectors. Take your time and its easy.

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 12:36 AM
My walkthrough states all of the torque specs given by the haynes manual for the lim/uim bolts. I double checked and they do match the manual. I just listed what haynes said were the correct torque specs for the 3400. If you're confused by it read the walkthrough more carefully, I explained it basically the best I could. Just remember that the lim bolts are torques in in/lbs and the uim bolts are torques in ft/lbs.

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 02:22 AM
almost done...

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 04:00 AM
Eh well the LIM is on nice and tight, valve covers put back on, fuel rail is on...

now another problem, the fuel return line nut. somehow two lines of the threading on the nut is deformed so the friggin thing wont go past halfway in, no matter what i tried! what can i do...!!

and if i cant fix it, is it replaceable...ehhh this is the one thing stopping me from finishing the job!

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-12-2007, 06:29 AM
Did you detach the FPR from the fuel rail and THEN screw in the nut? If not, do that... then reattach it to the fuel rail. This is a common cause of the problem you have and can lead to leakage as well. If that doesn't work, you may have to replace the fuel return line nut (just get a new one and detach the fuel return line from the other end in the engine bay), and possibly th FPR if you've cross-threaded it. Anyone else?

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 12:47 PM
yup tried that...thing will not go in.

Isnt there those things you can buy which is like a nut that is made to cut metal that you screw onto the bolt and itll fix the threads? Or some technique to fix it? Because I really dont want to have to dive down and replace and buy the whole part that the nut is on..


either way what is that part called and where can i buy it, and how hard is it to replace?

gectek
02-12-2007, 01:46 PM
yah if you can find a tap and die, that would be an ok idea, take it to the auto parts store or a hardware store to get the threads right, then have at it, i think that should fix ur problem

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 02:11 PM
yea...now the plastic spout on the power steering pump where the hose goes on cracked off cuz it was like fermented into the hose. new power steering pump too now! wooo....i knew i couldnt finish a job like this the first time doing it without breaking something...or two.

what is the exact name of the part that the fuel return line nut is on? and where does that part detatch from on the other side. plus will fuel pour out if i take it off?

gectek
02-12-2007, 02:14 PM
the fuel return line...u answered your own question, also just take the FPR off completely and look at the threads, maybe you just have something in it or an o ring turned. no it wont pour out. if you had it off for any amount of time, it should have evap some, but even if some does come out, just make sure you let it evaporate...and make sure u have the batt disconnected just in case

colour
02-12-2007, 02:44 PM
I'm getting ready do do mine soon. But I found this at AZ Felpro part#MS98003T

Permadryplus premium problem-solving gaskets designed to address sealing problems Features advanced technology impervious to coolant / oils. Set includes Permadry valve cover gasket(s) Supplied with one valve cover gasket due to an OE service procedure stipulating removal of one valve cover to replace both intake gaskets.


States that it only comes with one valve cover gasket. Is it possible to remove the LIM without removing both covers?

gectek
02-12-2007, 02:48 PM
o also wush....put plenty of rtv above where you highlighted on the head to make sure it seals on that area good, i am talking about the area where it goes to a point above the valley area

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 03:04 PM
well how do you disconnect the part with the nut on it?

im thinking of making a trip to a junkyard around here and snagging all the parts i broke. i know a junkyard where the guys shouldnt rip you off that badly for the parts you need if you take it off the car yourself.

Edited for moral value.. aheehee

gectek
02-12-2007, 03:06 PM
im getting lost, are you talking about the fuel pressure regulator? if so just use 2 wrenches

black05GT
02-12-2007, 03:15 PM
so you're gonna just steal what you need ? You haven't learned, have you ?

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 04:05 PM
so you're gonna just steal what you need ? You haven't learned, have you ?

How about you mind your own business? This post has nothing to do with you and isn't a moral discussion, thanks.

im getting lost, are you talking about the fuel pressure regulator? if so just use 2 wrenches

No, I'm talking about the part that the Fuel Return Line nut is ATTATCHED to.

In the picture below the nut that won't thread into the fuel rail is circled in white. I'm referring to the part it's attatched to since that nut does not come off and you have to replace that whole part...correct?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/angrysk8r/fuellineremoval2.jpg

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Another thing you can try is to lube it up with engine oil and try to get it into the fuel rail. Make sure you're pushing it in straight however or it'll never go in.

gectek
02-12-2007, 04:23 PM
correct, i think it goes into a rubber hose somewhere down the line, if so then it would disconnect there and thats what you replace. but i would try tapping the threads first, also you might just have to take the fuel rail and get a tap for it, i am not sure but it might be an AN style thread

and yah, make sure you lube it up good, but i would suggest vaseline not motor oil, and also make sure it is pressed in the line frist before you tighten it up, or else it wont go in. if the threads look ok, then it is prob just binding on something, it was hard as hell for me to get out the first time, and it was just as hard getting it back in, but shove it in all the way before you even thread the nut back in the line

gectek
02-12-2007, 04:26 PM
also dont go back with the dexcool, i would suggest using the yellow mulitpurpose stuff, better and doesnt make the glue crap

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 04:36 PM
I purchased Prestone Extended Life 50/50 Antifreeze. Fuk dexcool heh.

Im gonna try lubing it, but one thing, do tap kits change sizes or you have to buy a certain size?

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 04:54 PM
It will slightly change the size you'll need. Avoid doing that If at all possible, but if worse comes to worse you may have to. Although, you should be able to get a good deal at the junk yard (I got a basically brand new fuel rail and FPR for about $30, and they said they'd throw in the injectors for $5 a piece!).

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 05:13 PM
im looking at the fuel return line, and i followed it as far as i could see. It looks like it goes down then turns towards the driver side then dissapears into the firewall. I dont see any point where you can disconnect it???

ehhhh what do i do, and i also cant find this part on any part store...just the rail that it screws into with injectors. its called the fuel feed line

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 06:06 PM
You disconnect the feed line where the hard line enters the rubber line.

I couldn't find the fuel rail either when I looked around at parts stores. I went to a GM dealer and they were going to charge me several hundred for the fuel rail (which is COMPLETE BS...screw dealerships). After I searched around a bit I ended up going to the junk yard which ended up being one of the better decisions I had made. You should also be able to get a fuel feed line from there as well for cheap.

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 06:09 PM
Yea it's not the return line it's the FEED line. Like I said in the image you posted for your walkthrough the bolt that is screwed up is circled in WHITE. Not the other one.

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Ah nvm, I had my lines switched around....time to edit the walkthrough. It still doesn't really change what I've said however.

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 07:20 PM
ohhh.. so it is the fuel return line?

I searched on google and typed in 99 grand am fuel feed line and came up with forum posts of people who cut the hose part of it and then clamped a custom pipe and bolt end onto it. I honestly cannot figure out how this part disconnect. I see where the metal meets the rubber but it isnt clamped on, it looks like the rubber is part of the piping..Its like Pipe =====[]Rubber-------[]Pipe====

No clamps just the [] is a cylinder type thing that doesnt look like it comes apart. Im sure its not very odd for that bolt thread to strip so there has to be a easy way to replace just that sector of the piping....ANYONE?

gectek
02-12-2007, 07:26 PM
you could flare it but good luck on that one, if you wanna do it stock looking, an ISO flare is a PITA, or just go to a boneyard and see if they have what u are looking for. also go to the dealer and see if the pipe comes in sections, if it does then there is a way to take it apart. usually the easiest way is the best

BHermis
02-12-2007, 07:32 PM
I had the same problem with the threads and i did try lubing it with oil but that didn't work either. I disconnected the vertical nut and then pulled the injectors out of their seats and then just lined the screw up and threaded it about 3 turns. I then put the injectors back in and then tighten the vertical nut. That worked for me. Make sure to wipe off the threads before you put them in because if you have been screwing it alot there is going to be shavings there.

Now my problem! I think I am missing a part. Is there a 90 degree bend that goes into the front valve cover on the drivers side? It goes from a large vertical hole in the valve cover to a horizonal plastic hard tube.

Oh and how do i upload pictures?

angrysk8r
02-12-2007, 07:37 PM
I looked in the haynes manual and it said there is a special tool needed to remove those fittings without cutting them.

I took a picture of the page and uploaded it Here (http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2561/img10701eh8.jpg) (Read under "Fuel lines and fittings - repair and replacement" and "Flexible hose").

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 07:38 PM
Ive gotten the nut to thread in about halfway, or atleast it feels stiff and threaded. then it just spins on the same thread and if i pull on it it just comes out as if i never threaded it at all. heh and now one of the times pulling it out the oring shot off and it fell somewhere down in the drivers side. I looked under the car and it didnt fall through so I guess its not gonna be found.


I knew that this job went too smoothly, so here comes the problems. Blehhhhh!

gectek
02-12-2007, 07:41 PM
yah well those tools are for fuel line disconnect, not for any type of steel fitting removal, they go in for quick disconnect fittings, but GM doesnt use them on the GA fuel lines, they take different kinds of clips that will open and allow you to remove certain parts.

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 07:44 PM
I have the haynes manual. The only thing I saw was how to remove the FPR. What page talks about the actual lines themselves?

gectek
02-12-2007, 07:44 PM
the tap and die wouldnt hurt the threads at all, but you should look real well in the fuel rail and the threads on the nut to make sure that they are not binding, and also being as that line basically floats in the bore, it may be an alignment issue

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 07:48 PM
I cant even tell. The threading in the rail itself looks fine but I'm only 90% positive. The bolt thread you can clearly see the thread is like smushed so its stopping it from continuing to the next line.

wushdishmeen
02-12-2007, 08:03 PM
Okay the tap and dye thing...What size would fit over the end of the fuel line and thread onto the bolt to fix it? and what do i get to fix the fuel rail thread.

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-12-2007, 08:40 PM
I have the haynes manual. The only thing I saw was how to remove the FPR. What page talks about the actual lines themselves?

Pg 4-3 and 4-4

BHermis
02-13-2007, 12:24 AM
Hey i just finished the LIM and started her up. After putting my belt back on it squeeks like crazy and i have not power steering. I can feel that it is loose on the pulleys. My friend use a tenioner tool to pull on it while i was in the car (yah i know not smart) but it did give me tension and thus power steering. So the question is, is the tensioner pulley broken, is the pulley not seated correctly? (we accidentally messed with the bolt) or do i just need a new belt or some combination?
The cars is at 65,000 and i am still on the orignal belt so i guess i will be replacing it but i need to know while its off if i should replace the tensioner.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 12:57 AM
I also noticed when I reinstalled the tensioner pulley, it rubs against the bolt thats directly to the right of it. I don't understand why because everything is threaded correctly. Im just waiting for when I start the car up after this is done and find a ****load of problems.

gectek
02-13-2007, 01:05 AM
you prob didnt get the tensioner pin ligned up in the right hole, double check that and the torque on the bolts and routing

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 01:49 AM
Nah i know what your talking about. the tiny hole that the circular bulge on the back of the pulley goes into...i think its the bracket is like the slightest bit off....i dunno

alerored04
02-13-2007, 02:45 AM
Wushdish i had the same issue with my fuel feed line. For some reason the feed doesnt line back up perfectly with the fuel rail, Loosen the bolt further away from the feed that holds the rail down. Have a buddy get a flathead between the rail and the lower intake. Pry the passenger side of the rail up so you can get a better angle on the bolt going into the feed side of the rail. Your threads are probably not screwed up, you are just cross threading since for some reason it doesnt want to line up. This is what worked for me on several occasions when taking the rail on and off to deal with other b.s. Oh and make sure that no chunks of that o ring you said you lost are in the rail. That one gave me major headaches.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 02:51 AM
Yea I took that bolt off your talking about. Im gonna try to get a better angle...but it seems hopeless. The thread on the bolt halfway is like smushed on two lines so its like not letting it go past that part....i dunno its wierd i wish i had a camera


Also, is the tensioner pulley bolt supposed to be screwed in tight? or is the tensioner supposed to be loose so it can jiggle


eh...and question.

If i purchase a new power steering pump that has no pulley how do I get the pulley off my old broken one and put it on the new one? do you need a special tool?

and does the 3.4L 99 gt have variable steering?

BHermis
02-13-2007, 11:09 AM
Yah i need to know about the tensioner pulley also. How tight should that bolt be? Also I keep geting conflicting information. Can i put a jack with wood and cardborad under my oil pan?

Dave Carney
02-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Yah i need to know about the tensioner pulley also. How tight should that bolt be? Also I keep geting conflicting information. Can i put a jack with wood and cardborad under my oil pan?

Its in the previous post with torques specs (Drive Belt Tensioner Bolt 37 ft. lbs.)
You can put a jack under the oil pan with wood in between, in fact you'll find that info stamped right on the pan.

BHermis
02-13-2007, 01:08 PM
Whoops guess i should have just gotten under there. Alright, about to begin step #117 in the LIM gasket change - replacing the serpentine belt.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 01:21 PM
replacing the belt is really easy. Your squeeking is probably from fluids either oil/coolant/power steering fluid getting on the belt and contaminating it.

Get a gatorback belt its only $25 itll never squeak again.


I have to get a new power steering pump, then remove the engine mount again to fix the tensioner pulley and replace the power steering. then, hopefully tap and die the bolt on the fuel feed line that goes into the fuel rail. if that doesnt work, i then need either a new fuel rail or new fuel feed line which i DONT even know how to replace.


and all this before even knowing if the LIM gasket job is successful.


Now again, does the 99gt have variable effort steering????

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 04:00 PM
well, i lifted the fuel rail up and got the bolt to thread in fine. just one question, its not supposed to thread ALL the way in correct? there should sttill be like 2 threads left. i dont want to overtighten it so im making sure.


plus, are the o rings that go on the fuel injectors the same size as the ones that go on the end of the fuel feed lines?

one injector has a misshapen oring and is missing the clip, and im missing the orings that go on the two fuel feed lines.

BHermis
02-13-2007, 04:07 PM
So today I admitted defeat. I finished the LIM and started it to find my belt was loose. No other errors just that. Replaced belt and found that it was rubbing against the tensioner pulley. Drove it for a bit and then temp gauge started swinging from 100 to 200 and got a real high idle. Had to ride the break the whole time. I was right by a repair shop so I brought it in... oh well. So the visible symptoms are belt rubbing against tensioner, temp gauage swinging, high idle. Any clue??? My thought is that the tensioner got messed up during the job. I think one of my friends messed with the bolt, which is causing the rubbing and then i think i have not properly burped the coolant system and thats giving the crazy temps and high idle.

alerored04
02-13-2007, 04:15 PM
wushdish im not sure if the 99 is variable effort. My 01 is. In order to get the pulley off the old pump and onto the new one you will need a set of pullers. Most parts stores like advance should have them available to rent. Just go in and tell them what you are trying to do, they should be able to help you. Ill go check mine right now for the threads on the fuel line for you.

Just looked at it, i cant see it too well but i think that there is a thread or two sticking out. Your best bet would to reinstall the battery with the uim off and charge the fuel system and check it for visible leaks. Good luck.

The injector o rings are different sizes than the ones on the fuel lines. make sure you have the correct ones or you will have leaks. You absolutely need the o rings for the fuel feed lines. And while you are in there you might as well replace the damaged injector o rings and replace the missing clip. Here is the thread with the part # for the fuel feed. http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66218. I couldnt find them at parts stores, the dealership was the only place i could get one.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 04:17 PM
So...unbolt the tensioner pulley and inspect the bolt...then inspect the bolt that holds the bracket for the pulleys on thats RIGHT next to where the tensioner pulley goes.


Burp the system by unscrewed the bleeder screw, run the car until coolant starts spilling out then screw it back in and your done. You can also squeeze the rad hose to make the air bubbles come out faster.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 04:20 PM
wushdish im not sure if the 99 is variable effort. My 01 is. In order to get the pulley off the old pump and onto the new one you will need a set of pullers. Most parts stores like advance should have them available to rent. Just go in and tell them what you are trying to do, they should be able to help you. Ill go check mine right now for the threads on the fuel line for you.


Im almost positive 99 is variable effort which means more expensive ;crap

Are the o-rings for the top and bottom of the injectors the same size or are they different sizes? I need the ones on the end that pushes into the LIM. Also I need one clip that holds the injector to the rail. Does anyone have any extra orings or clips?

I also need the oring that goes on the end of the fuel line. I pressurized the system and it leaked from the fuel line with no oring, and the injector without the clip with a distorted oring.



I have a idea and im wondering if this will work. If I put a peice of piping that would fit in the hole where the spout on the P/S pump was and then slide the old spout over that then connected the rubber hose and clamped it would this work?

http://wushdishmeen.tnt.gs/powersteering.JPG

BHermis
02-13-2007, 05:45 PM
Have you taken your tensioner pulley off? If so how difficult is it? I didn't mess with any of the bolts that hold the pulley brakets onto the engine so i figure those should be alright.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 06:00 PM
I took the tensioner pulley and that entire bracket off to get to the lower rear valve bolt thats hard to get to..

The tensioner comes off by just unbolting the one bolt on it.


Eh do you have any extra o-rings for the fuel injectors or fuel rail....

BHermis
02-13-2007, 07:31 PM
The o-rings are real cheap and easy from Autozone. Make sure that you lube them up using oil before inserting them.

Well dang, I guess I gave up too soon... the high reving really scared me though... I'll post an update tomorrow and tell ya'll what happened. If it was a mistake with the LIM then I can at least warn others.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 08:13 PM
Noises in my car scare me too. But i'm the type to rather go in and try to find the problem by reading on here or looking myself then fixing it. If i break something along the way, whatever, live and learn.

I've never taken my car to a shop once with exception of getting new tires and i had a front bumper painted but that doesn't count as the car.

The mechanic's profession is not just to fix your car, it's to get as much money out of you that they can...otherwise they wouldn't be in buisiness.

The pricing is to satisfy them being the ones getting their hands dirty.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 09:05 PM
The o-rings are real cheap and easy from Autozone. Make sure that you lube them up using oil before inserting them.


They have them in a package or you have to ask at a parts counter?

The o-ring for the fuel rails and injectors are different sizes. I can bring one of the injector o-rings to show or find what I need at the store, but the fuel rail o-rings I lost so I have nothing to show to match them up. Is there a part number for them?

gectek
02-13-2007, 09:07 PM
they will come in a set, maybe felpro, but they have an injector o ring set for $26 last time i was lookin at it. and the other o ring i think youll have to go dealer on that one or a local hardware store or bearing place

alerored04
02-13-2007, 09:08 PM
i just posted a link to the thread where the numbers for the o rings are at. Ill just go get it for you.

17113034 is the gm number for both the feed line o ring and the one for the fpr on the return side.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 09:41 PM
So i have to spend $22 for one injector o-ring....thats BS!

Doesn't anyone have any laying around?

gectek
02-13-2007, 09:42 PM
hardware store

alerored04
02-13-2007, 09:45 PM
which o ring from the injector is it? I have a few of the ones between the injector and the rail laying around. I have none of the seals between the rail and the intake though. If that is the one you need pm me your address. Ill send it out tomorrow.

wushdishmeen
02-13-2007, 09:46 PM
They are the same size for both sides of the injector, i checked. but either way i need the one thats rail to injector anyways...

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-14-2007, 06:57 AM
I just went to Autozone for mine when I did my LIM gasket change, asked to look at their o-rings that were gas friendly, and picked out the sizes I needed... worked perfectly, and only a few cents each. They usually have a tray full of different sizes to pick from. Ask the guy behind the counter.

gectek
02-14-2007, 11:36 AM
yah they even have entire kits that have over 100 o rings in diff sizes for a few bucks, well worth the money

wushdishmeen
02-14-2007, 03:06 PM
I just went to Autozone for mine when I did my LIM gasket change, asked to look at their o-rings that were gas friendly, and picked out the sizes I needed... worked perfectly, and only a few cents each. They usually have a tray full of different sizes to pick from. Ask the guy behind the counter.

Yea well, the fuel injector o-rings I can actually bring in to match it up...but both fuel rail o-rings I lost so I don't have anything to compare it to...

is there sizes for those two or should I just buy a huge assortment and hope for the best.

gectek
02-14-2007, 03:08 PM
and assorted piece set will have the size you need, also in the "help" section they will have a little package of assorted o rings that you could use also

wushdishmeen
02-14-2007, 03:13 PM
Do you have a part number or like anything to say to get the exact package you got?

These are also fuel resistant correct?

The Oring that goes where the fuel line connects to the FPR I didn't even see what it looked like before I lost it, is that one bigger then the one that goes where the fuel feed line meets the fuel rail?

BHermis
02-14-2007, 05:46 PM
I found an oring that was pretty close to the one i ripped on the feed line and then I added thread sealer to the threads. There are no leaks so far.

wushdishmeen
02-14-2007, 06:54 PM
yea went to ace hardware and got orings...fixed everything up no leaks.

Now to figure out what to do about the power steering pump.

Supposedly you can swap just the reservoir? But I dunno if you can with the pulley still on?

I might just go to a junkyard and bring tools to take one off another car and ask if I do it myself will they give me a good price.

gectek
02-14-2007, 08:08 PM
power steering pulley puller can be rented to take the pulley off the old pump

wushdishmeen
02-15-2007, 02:08 PM
Another quick question.

Does anybody have the part number or name of the two following tubes/hoses.

Hose that connects the MAP sensor to the top of the fuel pressure regulator.

and

Tube that goes from the rear valve cover and plugs into the top of the air intake system. It's a vaccuum tube im pretty sure...

any part numbers or exact names?

gectek
02-15-2007, 02:56 PM
exact names are MAP sensor/manifold vacuum line, i have the pn somewhere but it would be better to call a dealership and ask them the pn...also the other line is a PCV hose for rear valve cover

black05GT
02-15-2007, 03:09 PM
IIRC, GM calls those two pieces as one part a "PCV harness" - I have the GM part number at home. will post it later tonight.

gectek
02-15-2007, 03:15 PM
the other part has nothing to do with the PCV though, it is just the vacuum hose for the map sensor and FPR , ok the map sensor tube is called just that a map sensor tube, its pn 24508184, idk about the other one though

wushdishmeen
02-15-2007, 04:39 PM
Yea im just going to the junkyard for it anyways...

PCV harness..hmm nah i dont think so

gectek
02-15-2007, 04:40 PM
i wouldnt, it can deteriorate really fast when left in a place like that with no use, i wouldnt get any vacuum fittings from a j yard at all, dealer shows only like $15 new, i paid about 12, so its not that much for a brand new piece

wushdishmeen
02-15-2007, 04:48 PM
the thing that goes from the rear valve cover to the intake is just this thick plastic tube..blow through it and its clean...

the other tube is actual small rubber, it broke whenm I was removing it from the MAP and cracked right where the rubber meets the "T" shaped grommet thing.

id obviously inspect it for wear, and its just convenient because Im going to be at the junkyard for a power steering pump regardless.

gectek
02-15-2007, 05:00 PM
ok well just so you know that map sensor vacuum harness is all one piece, you cant really take the rubber t off the vacuum hose, its bonded on it, you will mess it up, i know ive tried it

wushdishmeen
02-15-2007, 05:49 PM
i didnt mean take that off, the valve cover to intake tube is thick so i can clean that out...

the map sensor to fpr tube ill just blow through it and make sure its not clogged. if thats the case itll be fine as a temp fix.

do you know how badly im having withdrawel from my car...i havent started the thing up in almost a week now. I sat in it and actually missed driving again...i remember that feeling

BHermis
02-15-2007, 06:19 PM
Wow, i've had a pretty rough time with the LIM. I broke a bolt over tightening one of the valve covers and then when i finished the SES light was on. Some sort of bad connection with the MAP. Had to take it to the shop and they charged 390$. Which is within 5$ of what i saved by doing the LIM myself so i guess i break even huh. Oh except for the fact that the O-ring i put on the fuel feed apparently dosnt fit and i'm leaking gas. I have a nice tiny puddle on top of my LIM right where the feed line connects i'm assuming that is where it has to be leaking since there are not any puddles around the injectors. Looks like i'll be diving in again to fix that. Is there any quick fix or do I have to take off the UIM for the 10th time and hope not to screw up the gasket?

wushdishmeen
02-16-2007, 03:23 PM
I need the part number for the tube that runs from the rear valve cover to the top of the intake. It's the thick plastic tube, im sure anyone knows what im talkling about...

but whats the part #?
__________________

wushdishmeen
02-16-2007, 07:54 PM
I rented a pulley puller tool and i cannot get this friggin old pulley off...its no use

gectek
02-16-2007, 08:49 PM
is it a powersteering pulley remover or just a pulley puller? make sure u use the right tool for the job. and the other hose is a pcv hose, but i dont know the pn for it

wushdishmeen
02-16-2007, 09:03 PM
Pulley Puller and Installer Set.


I got the old pulley off, putting the new one on is hurting my friggin wrist and taking forever

gectek
02-16-2007, 09:05 PM
lol, yah its best to remove the stock one using a brass jawed vise(or brass jaw inserts) to hold the pulley while you remove it, and also its easier to take it off when it is on the car so it dont rotate

angrysk8r
02-16-2007, 09:15 PM
Wow, i've had a pretty rough time with the LIM. I broke a bolt over tightening one of the valve covers and then when i finished the SES light was on. Some sort of bad connection with the MAP. Had to take it to the shop and they charged 390$. Which is within 5$ of what i saved by doing the LIM myself so i guess i break even huh. Oh except for the fact that the O-ring i put on the fuel feed apparently dosnt fit and i'm leaking gas. I have a nice tiny puddle on top of my LIM right where the feed line connects i'm assuming that is where it has to be leaking since there are not any puddles around the injectors. Looks like i'll be diving in again to fix that. Is there any quick fix or do I have to take off the UIM for the 10th time and hope not to screw up the gasket?

Consider investing in a code reader, they can be had for under 80$ I think (maybe even a good bit cheaper than that) and you can find out what that SES means rather than taking it to a shop and blowing 400$.

wushdishmeen
02-16-2007, 09:32 PM
yea this tool is retarded. it got the old pulley off good, but the threading on the installer screw is the opposite of what it should be. i need something to hold the pulley while i install it because after i get to a certain point where it applies pressure, itll just start turning the pulley.


is there a SAFE way to hold the pulley? the pulleys are very delicate.

gectek
02-16-2007, 09:41 PM
what i mentioned or a vice grip could work, just cover the tips with a rag or something to keep good grip but not mark the pulley

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 12:03 AM
ok well car is completely back together now...

funny thing is i was on empty when i started this all so i need to go get some gas in a jug and fill her up.

should be running soon!

alerored04
02-17-2007, 01:52 AM
glad to hear it dude. Hopefully it all works. Did you get the ps pump figured out?

2K2GAGT1BQE
02-17-2007, 05:45 AM
Consider investing in a code reader, they can be had for under 80$ I think (maybe even a good bit cheaper than that) and you can find out what that SES means rather than taking it to a shop and blowing 400$.

Or just take it to Autozone or the like and get it read for FREE.

gectek
02-17-2007, 12:05 PM
well the prob with a generic code reader is that they cant read all the codes, esp some abs codes and air bag codes, and they can only read hard fault codes, there is more info in other stored codes that a regular code reader wont pick up. also current codes cannot be picked up by a reg code reader, if you want to be more in depth and get everything from the car you can, just get an autotap code reader, im sure those work very well. i have an 05 nemisys that works like a dream, the only it doesnt have it bi directional control, but thats ok. it only cost me 1000 brand new

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 12:39 PM
Yea I got the power steering pump figured out. Swapping the reservoir is actually very simple. I did that instead of trying to swap the variable steering over to the other pump, i just kept mine and swapped the reservoir and pulley over to the one originally on there.


To take off the reservoir you pull up the center of the top and bottom clips and just knock softly on the side of the clip with a hammer and they both slide right off. Then the reservoir just detatches. This can all be done with the pulley on, it's awesome.

BHermis
02-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Yah My rail is leaking so i'm about to head to Advance to grab a new oring. This should be the last thing I have to do. I bet its alot quicker the second time around. Makes me want to do my friends for him just to see how quick it could be. Also one more question, would using thread sealer on the nut that goes into the fuel feed line help?

alerored04
02-17-2007, 03:24 PM
glad to hear it wushdish. BH im not sure, ill let one of the more knowledgable guys on here answer that question.

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 03:37 PM
I wouldnt put threadsealer on the fuel line nuts..just because normal bolts just thread into a hole...the fuel line bolts thread into the fuel line and the threadlock could get caught in the fuel rail.

I'd suggest just getting the orings...and what I did is I went to Ace Hardware and went in the plumbing section and they had like this rotating wall thing of all different o-ring sizes for like 30 cents each. Theres a picture on the front of each little cubby thing to match up the size you need. This worked perfect, no leaks.

BHermis
02-17-2007, 06:34 PM
Alrighty, just put the new oring on I used the metric 10mmx15mmx2.5mm from advance. I didn't put the thread sealer on. No leaks so far but we'll see. I think now after 7 days, countless hours and tons of skin off my hands I am done with the LIM replacement...

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 06:38 PM
Uhm yea...started my car and it starts up good...

then after like 5 seconds it slowly dies and you hear a hissing sound then the car just dies...

please any suggestions..

could a broken hose from the fpr to the MAP cause stalling? i just taped it back together for now...

or the hose coming from the rear valve cover to the intake?

BHermis
02-17-2007, 06:52 PM
Do you smell any fuel? I know you did a lot of work on the fuel lines and rails and such. If you put your head right above it can you smell anything? Are there any fluids dripping? I would go back through the walkthrough and check every connection that you had to undo.

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 06:57 PM
There was no fuel leaks while i was doing the job by testing it with the key in the "ON" position. Then I look now and I don't really see any fuel leaks at all...i cant tell if i can smell fuel because ive smelled it too often...and if there is a smell of fuel its very faint then.


Can those two vaccuum hoses being cracked be the cause of stalling??

Also the fuel return line opposite of the one that goes into the fpr is slightly pinched. Not to the point where it would cut off the flow of a fluid but theres a slight dent in it...

Any suggestions...

gectek
02-17-2007, 06:57 PM
Uhm yea...started my car and it starts up good...

then after like 5 seconds it slowly dies and you hear a hissing sound then the car just dies...

please any suggestions..

could a broken hose from the fpr to the MAP cause stalling? i just taped it back together for now...

or the hose coming from the rear valve cover to the intake?

yah taping is not a good idea, def go with the new one. and the hissing is prob a vacuum leak, prob from your bad connection, and also check and make sure the PCV pipe on the rear valve cover is plugged all the way in the cover and the intake. it is at a funny angle and the coil bracket is supposed to kint of keep it seated, so make sure that is good also. and make sure you torqued all the bolts down to spec, esp the ones on the TB

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 07:04 PM
Yea those two things are definately broke...so that can cause stalling? that was my question. I know they need replacing but i didnt think it would effect the car staying on.


Is that dented fuel line a problem??? If its bad I'll take the UIM off and try to squeeze the pipe back to normal.


The dent is basically right where the fuel line does a 90 degree turn to go into the fuel rail. On the outer side right below the elbow of the 90 degree its kind of fflattened. Basically imagine me hitting the thing with a hammer to get it to go into the fuel rail. but not that bad! haha

gectek
02-17-2007, 07:08 PM
well the fuel line isnt a big concern right now, but if you decide to go big power, then i would look at that to be replaced. yes a big vacuum leak like that will stall the engine. get it fixed asap and itll all be good to go then as far as that goes.

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 07:18 PM
Okay wait...when you turn the key to the ON position it pressurizes the fuel system. So when you take off that cap on the fuel rail and press the button inside alot of air and fuel should come out correct?

Because I pressed it and only a tiny squirt of fuel came out and that was it...does this mean that the dented fuel rail is blocking the fuel ??

gectek
02-17-2007, 07:38 PM
no. it means that you havent started the vehicle completely, because the fuel press takes a little bit to equalize. someimtes only a small quantity comes out when it has been sitting for a while, but if you start it up and let it run for a little bit and then try the schrader valve, then it will spew out a good amount

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 07:45 PM
so replace the hoses and it should run good...

now the hard part is i need the part numbers for them.

gectek
02-17-2007, 07:50 PM
i gave u the pn for the map hose, try lookin up a few posts

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 08:14 PM
yea thats the only pn i got so far...i cant figure out the other

wushdishmeen
02-17-2007, 08:32 PM
Okay so if these wires/hoses are replaced it should stop the stalling?

It just seems very odd for the car to stall out because of two wires...i just came across a post of someone who said they noticed the pcv tube fell out of the rear valve cover and they didnt notice, meaning the car ran without it in and they didnt notice..

so are you SURE its just these wires? cuz if its not, then i have no clue what the problem is...theres no visible fuel leaks so im stumped if this doesnt work.

plus these tubes are special parts and it say it can take up to 7-10 days to ship.


oh and ANOTHER QUESTION. When you install the fuel rail and seat the injectors, is the Oring on the injector supposed to go THROUGH the holes or sit on top of them? I mean like should the orings pop through the hole or should they be sitting on top of the hole sealing off around it?

wushdishmeen
02-18-2007, 12:31 AM
Okay here's an update...

The fuel rail is in right im almost positive. This is EXACTLY what happens.


You start the car it sounds like it normally does...then 3 seconds later it dies and about 1 second after it dies you hear "PSSST" coming from the fuel rail area... but i cannot see any leaks...it looks like the fuel just sprays out really fast and then its done.

I do smell fuel...i really dont think its the tubes i was talking about...something with the fuel is not right.

Sprucegagt
02-18-2007, 02:07 AM
The injector O-rings are supposed to go into the hole, NOT on top of it. You have the injectors seated wrong causing a big vacuum leak and making the engine die. If your not sure how the injectors are supposed to go back in, then find a picture here or have someone show you.

wushdishmeen
02-18-2007, 02:30 AM
Yes after doing massive searches I kept reading people saying the O-ring goes past the hole. So i went back and fixed that, but still was getting the same sound and problem. It seems like all the o-rings go completely in the openings.


I smell fuel though, but i cannot tell if its fuel that spilled during the install or fiddling around with the fuel rail....but the car starting then the PSSST noise as if somethings popping out makes me think something with the fuel rail is wrong...but checking it out everything looks fine.

Would a vacuum leak on one of those three tubes I mentioned cause that PSST noise also?

BHermis
02-18-2007, 11:33 AM
Make sure that you press down firmly, (25lbs of force) on each injector while they are in the rail. And then make sure the bolts that hold the fuel down are completely screwed in. That should eliminate any problems with them not being seated. Also you may want to check the orings onthe fuel injectors. Is the oring on the fuel feed and return lines ok? Check to make sure those are seated correctly and didn't fall off when you put them in.

wushdishmeen
02-18-2007, 12:18 PM
yes i checked that. all the injectors are sitting fine all the orings are fine.


my question is would the vacuum leaks make the car start fine then die then 2 seconds later you hear PSSSST really fast? Because if just those hoses being replaced can fix that then ill order them...if theres anything else wrong im just gonna have it brought to a shop..and i REALLY dont want to.


so unless its logical or common for those hoses to cause that problem i dont want to put more effort in.

ill most likely tonight take pictures and a video so you can hear it hopefully to help diagnose the problem.

gectek
02-18-2007, 02:50 PM
yes it will. the engine needs vacuum at idle to idle right, otherwise your O2 sensor shows a lean condition and it will kill the car, because you are already lean with the IAC on and it is unmetered air that is comming into the engine, so the PCM cannot compensate for it, and it dies. either hose can do that also, because it is air that is not metered by the MAF. also the MAP will not work right and notice a diff in vacuum or pressure and that will compound the effect. the hissing you are hearing is the valve train shutting down letting the excess pressure and vacuum in the cyls and behind the valves back out. fix the hoses and you should be good to go. also the o rings are for a positive seat in the LIM, so make sure they go in the appropriate spots on the injectors, also did you notice if all of the plastic cones were on the injectors or not, those can cause vacuum leaks also. if they are smashed flat or wallowed out then you have to replace those also, because they will get brittle and break and sometimes seat behind the valve and make all sorts of problems also. and one more time. make sure your TB gasket is in one piece and also make sure both bolts are torqued down correct.

wushdishmeen
02-18-2007, 03:47 PM
okay heres an update.

ordered the tubes that were broken and also a retainer for the injector.

i noticed one of the retainer clips for the cyl 6 injector was broken. so it wasnt held in tight enough. all the orings and "cone" things are in good shape.

when the parts arrive i will fix it all up again and see if it works.


Last few questions for now (sorry).

When seating the injectors is the injector supposed to go ALL the way in until the wider part is touching the opening..or just as long as the oring passes through?

Plus, how do you get that friggin vacuum hose from the rear valve cover to the intake to sit properly...it does not want to bend the right way so that the connection to hte valve cover is secure AND the intake connection is secure..its seems only one or the other...

black05GT
02-18-2007, 06:29 PM
The (exact, correct, and specific ) gm part number for those two parts ( the PCV valve to evap purge valve tube, and the larger black tube from the MAF side of the TB to the firewall side valve cover) FOR BOTH PARTS is 12581196. I paid $18.66 at the dealer parts counter, gmpartsdirect says $9.62

gectek
02-18-2007, 06:36 PM
wow thats funny because the front PCV valve vacuum hose doesnt go to the MAP sensor, i gave him that number straight off the box. the tube you are talking about goes to the evap purge solenoid and also to the top of the TB and the front PCV valve. the number i gave him is for the right part, because i bought it that way.

also you can use a heat gun or hair dryer to heat and mold the tube to make sure it fits both places

black05GT
02-18-2007, 07:05 PM
gectek, I do believe you may have me there, but it sounded like the two pieces that he needed. I'll have to re-construct the 3400 UIM, it's in parts in my garage

gectek
02-18-2007, 08:37 PM
well i have the diagram and the hose you are talking about right in front of me, they may sell them as a set, which is good to get, but he will still have to get the other MAP vacuum line. the small end of the hose from the front has a u shaped elbow on it that tends to take alot of abuse from all the gasoline vapors and outside conditions and likes to leak and crack, so it is a good idea to replace that as well, and also the PCV valve if it has a few miles/years on it

wushdishmeen
02-18-2007, 09:50 PM
also you can use a heat gun or hair dryer to heat and mold the tube to make sure it fits both places

i dont understand what you mean, or how to do that. what's wierd is that this tube fit perfectly fine before I did the LIM job. now i cant seem to figure out what way it could physically have leverage to keep it in the rear valve cover...seems impossible..i dunno.

BHermis
02-18-2007, 11:45 PM
I had a problem geting that one to seat also. However i got it most of the way in on the valve cover and it worked.

Blackrider
02-19-2007, 12:31 AM
I dont know if this has been brought up but it much easyer to remove the fuel rail with the lower intake manifold.

Dave Carney
02-19-2007, 10:01 AM
This is almost too painful to watch. ;) Wushdishmeen, if the line is going the right direction and routed the same way as it was when it was removed, then it has to fit. Period. If it's popping out of the valve cover, then, something underneath the line (that wasn't there before) is forcing it up. Look closely at how you have it routed, should be obvious what the problem is. Route that line UNDER the other stuff like wire bundles and such.

polo77
02-19-2007, 10:30 AM
I can gladly name my list with everyone else. Mine just went at 111,000. My garage Gave me an estimate of 250-300 to get it done. This is the garage that has always done great work and gives me an honest answer on seems like everything. Im waiting to see what another garage says. But I thought there prioce was a bit low.

BHermis
02-19-2007, 10:49 AM
That is pretty low. The lowest quote i got was 550

wushdishmeen
02-19-2007, 11:36 AM
guys, when searching for a retainer clip for the injector i found one that was a package of 6 of them which was like $22, then someone on here gave me a part number that was for one retainer, then the guys at puritanparts said "yea the retainer you selected is for a 2000 grand am please advise if you want this order to continue"

arent all the retainers the same?

gectek
02-19-2007, 11:40 AM
what i meant was to use heat to change the shape or curve of the tube so that it will fit. check routing though. also it would have been ALOT easier to leave the fuel rail in the LIM when u take it off, i did and didnt have any injector problems, o ring problems or anything like that

polo77
02-19-2007, 12:13 PM
Just got another estimate for 375. These seem kinda low from what everyone else has said.

wushdishmeen
02-19-2007, 12:34 PM
yea i didnt realize you didnt have to take the rail off..but i was following the walkthrough step by step so since he did it so do i...im wishing i never did though hah

oh well.

so, will a 2000+ injector retainer clip work on a 99? They look slightly different but the same concept of how to keep it in, so it should right?

BHermis
02-20-2007, 12:15 AM
I can't imagine that they changed the fuel rail or injectors from 99 to 2000 but GM has done some silly things. Man if you were close i'd drop by and try to help.

Your right those price quotes are low. Are there any hidden parts or labor charges?

gectek
02-20-2007, 12:17 AM
hey BHermis, im in levelland, and i go to lubbock every day...lol. my car is wrecked right now, but ill be running it at Idalou pretty soon, maybe ill c u there

angrysk8r
02-20-2007, 12:55 PM
yea i didnt realize you didnt have to take the rail off..but i was following the walkthrough step by step so since he did it so do i...im wishing i never did though hah

oh well

I made it quite clear in step 16 that you did not have to remove the fuel rail for the lim gasket change

wushdishmeen
02-20-2007, 01:18 PM
Yea but because you put the step and its "optional" and you did it and finished your LIM successfully i figured maybe its good to do that, might as well while its apart. i didnt realize it would cause all this trouble...

nonetheless i ordered everything i needed to replace so hopefully when that comes and I bolt it all up again it works good...

polo77
02-21-2007, 05:20 PM
When I got the quote they both said that was including labor, parts, Changing out the dexcool, and oil change. I still say there way to low.

BHermis
02-22-2007, 09:37 PM
Hey man if they are offering it then I might take it. I'm a first time mechanic and I had a hell of a time doing mine. The job itself is not that hard. Its all the inbetween stuff. Accidently screwed up my belt had to repace than, and then screwed up the tensioner pulley, replaced that, screwed up interior threads of tensioner pulley bolt, (can't easily replace that), pinched two MAP wires together, coundn't diagnose so i had to take it in... $400, fuel line oring slipped off while installing, had to replace that and now.... I some how created a leak in my WINDSHIELD WASHER RESEVOIR!!! so yah its fun to do yourself, a little too much fun.

wushdishmeen
02-24-2007, 12:14 AM
Replaced the parts now the car works great, tightly sealed no leaks! :applause:


Only thing is how do I bleed the power steering pump? It's making a whining noise and i'm guessing it's because I dissassembled and reassembled it.

What do i do?

alerored04
02-24-2007, 08:56 AM
I think my instructions said to run it for like 30 sec to a min with the cap off to let the air bleed out, but you might wanna double check that info.

gectek
02-24-2007, 10:31 AM
no leave the cap on it will bleed itself, just let it run for a little bit, then turn the wheel both directions to lock and hold it there for a minute, then turn back and forth, and it should be bled then

i had the same prob when i took out my rack to change the upper seal...works like a charm now

alerored04
02-24-2007, 02:32 PM
glad to know i was wrong getek. I knew i had stuff backwards. THanks for the correction.

gectek
02-24-2007, 03:00 PM
its ok, that is the shortcut method, the gm method has u buy a bleeder kit and it takes like 30 mins and would cost alot of money to do and its a bunch of crap about pressurizing the system and all this jazz, but the way i said is the easiest, it even worked on my friends 96 lumina also, he did his rack the same time i did mine

Robotix
02-24-2007, 05:52 PM
How in the hell did you remove the valve cover bolt behind where the alternator was....I cant get it and am stuck...I am working on it as I type!!!!:banghead

alerored04
02-24-2007, 05:58 PM
you must remove the alternator bracket and the tensioner pulley and its bracketry.

Robotix
02-24-2007, 06:01 PM
you must remove the alternator bracket and the tensioner pulley and its bracketry.


Is there a hidden bolt...I removed the 2 side bolt and the back bolt and it is still tight as ****.

wushdishmeen
02-24-2007, 07:59 PM
yea power steering is bled now...everything is fine except the SES light is on..?

any suggestions or way to reset it

gectek
02-24-2007, 08:53 PM
yea power steering is bled now...everything is fine except the SES light is on..?

any suggestions or way to reset it

disconnect your batt cable for a few mins then put it back on, the neg batt cable that is, on the other deal

yes on the alt there is another stud right in the middle with a nut on it, you can take the nut off and leave the stud in the bracket

polo77
02-24-2007, 09:32 PM
Im getting my lim done this week and I had a question. My car is at 111,xxx and it has had dex cool from day one, and sine I am having this done, should I go ahead and have dex cool put back in or go with the green stuff, or something else. Thanks

Robotix
02-24-2007, 10:22 PM
Well...I am halfway through and I have two points.....

1. You CANT do this job without a swivel attachment for the socket set...you need this to take off the power steering pump, there is NO other way.

2. After removing the alternator you MUST take off the alternator bracket to get to the last bolt on the rear valve cover gasket there is NO other way...there are FOUR bolts on the bracket one being the bolt that holds the tension arm on.

Everyone of my lim bolts were loose!!!!

The inside of my engine is black as midnight. Will an oil treatment clean this crap out????

Emerica12124
02-24-2007, 11:24 PM
You should stay with dex cool. Dex cool last longer (if thats true) and also if you get dex cool and the green stuff mixed together your coolent water jackets will be filled with this yucky pasty stuff. Thats never good. Thats my point of view.

gectek
02-24-2007, 11:32 PM
do 2 flushes and then run water for a little bit, then drain and flush, then fun the yellow stuff, its better

also on the other situation with the dark knight living in your engine, yes seafoam will help, but dont use too much. also clean anything you can take out of the engine and make sure its good and dry, use chemtool to clean with, but wear gloves because it can give you chemical burn if you use it too long.

Emerica12124
02-24-2007, 11:35 PM
Why do you say the yellow stuff is better?

gectek
02-25-2007, 12:37 AM
doesnt give the dex glue, and doesnt have the tendency to eat alum if you dont service it regularly, and it doesnt get that nasty haze to it like the dex does, and mine is still very clear even after 10k miles of driving like i stole it, and it doesnt discolor the coolant reservoir like the dex does, i really like it and i didnt think i would

there is hope yet

Emerica12124
02-25-2007, 12:56 AM
Why do we have dex cool then if what you just said is all true. Seems like dex cool is the worst thing. I can see it turning the reservior bottle a werid discoloration. I just painted mine gloss black today with a little window so i can see where the level is, along with the valve covers and t-stat housing. Just waiting to get back my parts from 60 degree v6. Cant wait.

angrysk8r
02-25-2007, 01:09 AM
Well...I am halfway through and I have two points.....

1. You CANT do this job without a swivel attachment for the socket set...you need this to take off the power steering pump, there is NO other way.

2. After removing the alternator you MUST take off the alternator bracket to get to the last bolt on the rear valve cover gasket there is NO other way...there are FOUR bolts on the bracket one being the bolt that holds the tension arm on.


Neither of these is true. There are other tools you can use besides a swivel attachment to reach those bolts. Also, I was able to remove my rear valve cover without removing the bracket.

wushdishmeen
02-25-2007, 02:31 AM
Yea so...more problems.

The car runs and drives..but the idle is very rough. My SES comes on then starts blinking...

i know you can get the code read but from what I hear you have to pay money just for them to read the code....and i really dont want to do that.

im guessing a injector is clogged or something, i cant think of what else would be wrong. It doesnt sound like the engine is misfiring although it might be.

Just when I slow down to idle the car feels jumpy and shaky and at a stop its very shaky. What could it be?

alerored04
02-25-2007, 04:02 AM
that is what mine did. The blinking ses light is a misfire. Advance or napa reads and clears codes for free. Did you find all of the chunks of the fuel rail o ring that you lost? Cause i didnt find all the parts of mine. It went into the rail and clogged an injector. I found a used set of injectors on aleromod and swapped them all. Runs great now. Best place to start is wiring. Make sure all the plug wires are tight. Are the plugs good? After that check the fuel rail not only for leaks but make sure all the wires on the harness are on tight. If you have a friend that works at a dealership like i do they might scan it for free with the scanner that napa doesnt have and tell which cyl is missing, that way you know where to focus. Good luck.

wushdishmeen
02-25-2007, 04:33 AM
omgggg...okay so i got pissed and took apart the fuel rail again...took it completely off and inspected each injector.

I then noticed when taking off and looking at the cylinder 2 injector on the opening that goes INTO the fuel rail it seemed to be clogged or stuck open/shut. i then realize the red power wire going into it was severed completely!!

Hence the cylinder 2 misfiring. Okay now, does this mean I need an entire new injector or can i fix the wiring? its cut basically right where the wire meets the connector to the injector, so its like little to no space to splice and rewire...

if theres no fix then whats the pn for the wiring harness...UGH


the wires is like this ==== =[](inj)

gectek
02-25-2007, 06:49 PM
you can actually either do one of 2 things for the bad wire, i would NOT recommend splicing it or fixing it,

1. get a pigtail from GM use that

2 get the entire wiring harness from GM, that way it is all new, not very expensive and no messy wire splices that can go wrong in the future, if you need a good price on one let me know, i can look tomorrow

Robotix
02-25-2007, 07:05 PM
Well...I am halfway through and I have two points.....

1. You CANT do this job without a swivel attachment for the socket set...you need this to take off the power steering pump, there is NO other way.

2. After removing the alternator you MUST take off the alternator bracket to get to the last bolt on the rear valve cover gasket there is NO other way...there are FOUR bolts on the bracket one being the bolt that holds the tension arm on.

Everyone of my lim bolts were loose!!!!

The inside of my engine is black as midnight. Will an oil treatment clean this crap out????

Neither of these is true. There are other tools you can use besides a swivel attachment to reach those bolts. Also, I was able to remove my rear valve cover without removing the bracket.

OK...let me rephrase then....if you remove the bracket which takes 2 minutes you save your self 10 minutes trying to figure out and failing how to remove that last bolt of the valve cover gasket hidden behind the alternator bracket bolt.

And as far as the bolt for the power steering pump that you have to take the engine mount bolt out for.......WHAT tool do you use then since this is what you clearly state,

"23.) Remove one of the engine mount bolts (As seen in the picture HERE) and then using a "U-JOINT" and by rotating the power steering pulley, you should have a clear shot at all 3 of the bolts that hold the power steering assembly to the engine (As seen in the picture HERE). Now you should just be able to set the power steering assembly aside without disconnecting it.

If there is another tool or way to do this then it would be most helpful in elaborating what it is because other than those two things your instructions where flawless...the only other thing I would recommend is a wifi laptop to check out your pictures.

again job well done thanks for the help!!!!!:applause:

angrysk8r
02-25-2007, 07:31 PM
OK...let me rephrase then....if you remove the bracket which takes 2 minutes you save your self 10 minutes trying to figure out and failing how to remove that last bolt of the valve cover gasket hidden behind the alternator bracket bolt.

And as far as the bolt for the power steering pump that you have to take the engine mount bolt out for.......WHAT tool do you use then since this is what you clearly state,

If there is another tool or way to do this then it would be most helpful in elaborating what it is because other than those two things your instructions where flawless...the only other thing I would recommend is a wifi laptop to check out your pictures.

again job well doen thanks for the help!!!!!:applause:

I personally had little trouble with that rear valve cover bolt so I didn't bother to write up how to remove that bracket. I suppose I got lucky. Although since so many people can't seem to get to it easily, once I replace my head gaskets (which will be soon) I'll include it in the walkthrough and show pictures of where the bolts are on the bracket. Also, for what specific tool you could use instead of a swivel attachment, you can use a low profile ratchet (Or at least one with a small head). That is actually how I put the bolts back in on the power steering pump.

Also, if anyone else has pictures or would like to add to the walkthrough, feel free to tell me and I'll edit the post.

I also plan to add a trouble shoot section to this walkthrough, since inevitably some of us (including me) had some issues after completing the gasket change. But for those who have replied above with issues there are some easy things to check when you put everything back together. I had some major idle issues when I first started my car, and after a good check there were some things that I had overlooked. My problems were: Dirty coil pack connections, a fairly major vacuum leak (at the TB), and an untightened spark plug. Those simple things combined basically made it so that my engine wouldn't run for more than 10 sec at a time, and when it did run, it didn't run or idle smooth at all. A shop might have charged me a small fortune to diagnose and fix these issues, but I was basically able to fix these for free.