2.4 vs 3.4?

[Grand_am_power]

New to the forum guys, just lookin for some input on somethin. I have an 2000 GAGT 3.4 and everyone here knows its stats. Would love to prove to a majority of other people (Like everyone else here) that the GA is not to be taken lightly. But I have been reading a great deal lately on this sight, and was woundering which would be a better (or more logical way to go). Stick with my 3.4 and suffer with the auto tranny? (just because I like manual better :) Or go with the 2.4 5 speed and suffer the hp loss. Goin for the 500 hp mark. No im not crazy, there r too many 10 sec 4 cyls runnin around so i know it can be done. The 3.4 is a strong motor i know, but the ecotec has alot more parts. What will have to b done to the frame to handle that power. Is there a tranny for either motor to handle the power. High boost and bottle combined are thoughts. Lookin to get any input that i can so any serious responses would be appreciated!


My ultimate goal is to build one of the baddest GA's ever to touch the blacktop. Dont care if its street legal, dont care if i have to do some fabbin. Boring the block, bigger injectors, tighter suspension, radical cam, porting and polishing heads, larger valves, forged bottom end, Huge turbo, pure power and performance is desired.

[Sprucegagt]

You have a loooonnggg way to go. I suggest starting with the search function. Almost everything you want to know about this car is there.

[caraudiodave]

people will argue that the 2.2L eco is a better platform to build into a race car. the 2.4L is not an ecotec, at least not the one in the grand am, its just a DOHC. if you already have the 3400 then you might just want to use it and build that up. 500 hp hasnt been done yet, but people are getting up there. the parts are starting to come out to the market now, and now that milzy has a GT he will be making more parts for it.

[AaronGTR]

You can get a 2.4L ecotec now though. It's in the base model solctice. Good luck finding a used one cheap though. If you wanted to go the 4cyl and manual route you'd be better off using the 2.0L LSJ motor since it's built for boost from the factory. If you were really planning on 500hp though you'd end up gutting the engine and using everything from the GM performance catalogue anyway so you might be better off starting with the larger 2.2 or 2.4 for more displacement.

Either way with that power level I think you'll be looking at a 4T65E auto trans swap. That is what the high power ecotec drag cars are using anyway as well as the grand prix gtp's which are running as fast as 9's now. Personally I'd stick with the 3.4L engine though. The extra displacement will mean more torque and less stress on the engine to hit that power level which in the long run equals more dependability and easier to drive on the street. It is a capable engine and with a capable transmission it can run good times. Case in point the fastest car and all but one of the fastest cars on this site all use the 3400 with the 4T45 tranny. I think a 500hp 3400 with a 4T65 behind it would be pretty sweet. In fact thats sorta what milzy's building right now. :)

[Grand_am_power]

Your reply's are appreciated guys. Have another question or 2.

Aaron, What can u tell me about the 4t45 and the 4t65 tranny's, like what cars they come out of and what numbers can they handle before having to reinforce them?

Last thing. I talked to a guy at summit a couple months ago about a project I was thinking of. Basically, taking a big turbo like the garret GT35R and going with a forged bottom end, (assuming would have to anyway to handle 500 hp) using stronger valves, boost cam, injectors ect, and keeping decent fuel mileage. He said that was completly do-able and since the turbo is making all the extra power, I would only lose a few mpg unless of course i give it hell all the time. Wanted to know what u guys thought, cause i figured someone in here has boost experience or knows about it.

[Rich]

^ research some of the posts by the member "tejohnson" to get more info, hes got a turbo setup on his 3400 and i think he has quite a few pics of the build too.

[coupe]

Gotta love newbie pipe dreams

[Grand_am_power]

lol, the lightbulb had to be thought up before it was invented! Just lookin for a little info before I start this project.

[Grand_am_power]

btw, does anyone know if a 3.8 crank will fit a 3.4 without major doing? Heard that the 3.4 and the 3.8 used the same blocks. Would like the 3.8 inch stroke for more torque and top end.

[bszopi]

First off, the 3.8 and 3.4 share nothing in common, so nothing will swap between them.

Second, there is no way to triple the hp of an engine, keep it streetable and only loose a couple mpg. Its just not going to happen.

[SikMindz]

Cosign bszopi.

Subscribed to this one fa sho! lol

GAPower..in addition this forum I highly advise checking out www.60degreev6.com as well. Most importantly just scour the threads here first from schweppe23, tejohnson, aarongtr and spyhunter to get a good idea of what you're up against in terms of building.

[Grand_am_power]

First off, the 3.8 and 3.4 share nothing in common, so nothing will swap between them.

Second, there is no way to triple the hp of an engine, keep it streetable and only loose a couple mpg. Its just not going to happen.


Thanks for the swap info. Some tech guy at a dealership in Mansfield OH told me about the blocks, but he didnt say as to what extent. Guess he was full of it. Wasnt really worried about the mpg, just woundered if it was possible.

[Grand_am_power]

Another question, what ecotec motor are they getting such incredible numbers from. The one in that magazine i read, had a twin turbo setup and was getting close to 1000 hp. Thats sick power for a 4 cyl fwd car. Wounder what tranny they used?

[tejohnson]

Thats sick power for a 4 cyl fwd car. Wounder what tranny they used?

The 65e.

[Grand_am_power]

Appreciate all the help guys!

[LoboMan7409]

500 HP, my goodness.

[SpyhunteR]

500 HP, my goodness.

well if you're talking to the crank, I'm only a bottle of juice away.

[Grand_am_power]

500 HP, my goodness.


:) It can be done. The biggest thing is spendin the money on the bottom end to get it to hold, not to mention the heads. Sure i could buy a v8 and it would be easier but that takes the fun out of it. Will be a crap load of boost though. :)

[Grand_am_power]

I was woundering if tejohnson or anyone knew anything about the garret gt35r. I've got pics of the compressor map for it and it seems to have good efficiency for the 3.4 and should be a high booster. (correct me if im wrong). Or would this turbo be a good candidate and can it be pushed to put out 500hp even at the crank?

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/99-04%20Grand%20Am.htm

[Rich]

Another question, what ecotec motor are they getting such incredible numbers from.

i do believe its the regular ol' 2.2. for more info it wouldnt hurt to check www.ecotecforum.com , www.quad4forums.com, and/or www.j-body.org. but i think you should just stick with the 3400, not because i think its better, but the money you dont spend on the swap can go towards more mods on it.

[Grand_am_power]

i do believe its the regular ol' 2.2. for more info it wouldnt hurt to check www.ecotecforum.com , www.quad4forums.com, and/or www.j-body.org. but i think you should just stick with the 3400, not because i think its better, but the money you dont spend on the swap can go towards more mods on it.

I'm gonna stick with the 3.4 Like it too much. :) Thanks for the info on the 4 cyls though.

[timberwoof]

If I can make another recomidation. If you are looking at making your car into a drag car, seam weld and fill in alot of the gap. The more regidity the better. Stiffer and stroger engine mounts and bushings, and an engine damper. Trust me you will thank yourself later for it. Oh one big thing, if you don't already know, for alot better acceleration and higher speed, the lighter the better. Get rid of anything and everything you don't need inside the vehicle, and it doesn't hurt that it helps on the MPG either. Good luck on the build, and keep us informed.

[LoboMan7409]

:) It can be done. The biggest thing is spendin the money on the bottom end to get it to hold, not to mention the heads. Sure i could buy a v8 and it would be easier but that takes the fun out of it. Will be a crap load of boost though. :)

Or you could do what I did, go buy a GTO, throw a blower on it and I think I am just above 525 HP. I think it is cheaper than sooping up a GT

[tejohnson]

A GT35R is a perfect addition. Just ask Pat ;)

[bszopi]

Here is the Eco-tec build book : http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/html/race_shop_build_book.htm

Also gives the info to build up the 4T65E.

[99blackSE]

Or you could do what I did, go buy a GTO, throw a blower on it and I think I am just above 525 HP. I think it is cheaper than sooping up a GT

But then you are just another blown GTO... props to the car but...

People don't do this to just be fast cars, they do it to be fast in a Grand Am

[Grand_am_power]

Or you could do what I did, go buy a GTO, throw a blower on it and I think I am just above 525 HP. I think it is cheaper than sooping up a GT

I thought about doin that with a firebird, but i have fooled with v8's for years and my car is already paid off. Besides, would love to have the ultimate sleeper.

[Grand_am_power]

If I can make another recomidation. If you are looking at making your car into a drag car, seam weld and fill in alot of the gap. The more regidity the better. Stiffer and stroger engine mounts and bushings, and an engine damper. Trust me you will thank yourself later for it. Oh one big thing, if you don't already know, for alot better acceleration and higher speed, the lighter the better. Get rid of anything and everything you don't need inside the vehicle, and it doesn't hurt that it helps on the MPG either. Good luck on the build, and keep us informed.

What about the KYB struts on pfyc.com Think they good enough to do some hard launches. Would like to have some good weight transfer out of the hole. The bushings on there look ok too.

[SpyhunteR]

But then you are just another blown GTO... props to the car but...

People don't do this to just be fast cars, they do it to be fast in a Grand Am

it's even better when you do it w/ a quad

[AaronGTR]

What about the KYB struts on pfyc.com Think they good enough to do some hard launches. Would like to have some good weight transfer out of the hole. The bushings on there look ok too.

That would certainly help. If you got the adjustable ones you could set the rears to full stiff and the front to soft and that should help lessen weight transfer to the rear and keep traction in front. You'd just have to test how much softer to set the fronts because you don't want to get wheel hop. I'm getting those struts in the spring and intend on fully testing them in that capacity (among others). The biggest help for a good launch of course will always be drag radials first and an LSD second.

[Grand_am_power]

That would certainly help. If you got the adjustable ones you could set the rears to full stiff and the front to soft and that should help lessen weight transfer to the rear and keep traction in front. You'd just have to test how much softer to set the fronts because you don't want to get wheel hop. I'm getting those struts in the spring and intend on fully testing them in that capacity (among others). The biggest help for a good launch of course will always be drag radials first and an LSD second.

Lemme know when you test those struts!