ffp install problem

[zhd1000]

i'm in the middle of installing the ffp pulley and i've got it on about half way but here's the problem.. i couldn't get it on very far at first so i got it on a little and threaded the bolt.. i used my impact wrench to tighten the bolt to pull the pulley on.. but now the bolt just spins and it wont push the pulley on any further.. i have no idea what to do now.. please help ;crap

[AaronGTR]

Um, you stripped the bolt going into the crank you mean?.... you're f**ked.


It shouldn't take that much force to get the pulley on. You should be able to put the bolt in and tighten it by hand with a wrachet and draw the pulley on. If it won't go on then there's something wrong and you shouldn't use an impact wrench and force it. The only thing I think you might be able to do is take it somewhere they can drill and tap the crank for a larger bolt. It's that or time to get a new crankshaft. Sorry, but thats why you don't force things.

[zhd1000]

i don't understand why the pulley wouldn't have just slipped on then.. i greased it up like it said to and it would only go on a little bit.. then it said to use the center bolt to bring it on all the way... i can now see that i stripped the bolt but can't really tell if the cranks thread are stripped.. what's the best plan of action here? should i try to back the pulley off and try filing down the key hole? and get a new bolt or do you think that it needs to be retapped either way?

[xtremecold101]

I would start out easy and try to find a thread chaser to use to get all the pieces of metal out. Then try it with a new bolt. ( Try putting some antiseize or something like that on the chaser so it will aid in picking up the bits of metal) If it is hard to turn then you would need the more aggresive route which would be tapping it.

[AaronGTR]

Hmmm, well most likely if the bolt is stripped then the threads in the crank are messed up too. If it's mostly the bolt though you "might" be able to salvage the crank. You'll need a new bolt and a thread tap the same size and thread pitch to clean up the threads in the crank. Then you can try reinstalling. You shouldn't even need grease on the pulley, although I guess a little silicone paste couldn't hurt. The factory manual actually says to coat the front cover seal with engine oil (the part that touches the outside of the crank pulley hub) but doesn't say anything about greasing the inside. It actually says to put a small amount of rtv sealer on the keyway. They say to use a crank pulley puller tool for removal and install. The crank bolt is only supposed to be tightened to 76 lb/ft so you can't put too much force on it. Thats about all I can tell ya'.

[Sprucegagt]

One tip I'll through in, I picked this up from Summit racing when I used one of there dampeners. Put the pulley in boiling water for a few minutes then quickly put your RTV on it and slide it on the crank. Heating up the pulley will enlarge the hole slightly making it easier to put on the crank.

As for fixing the stripped threads. Get the old bolt out and see if any threads are left on it. I would think GM made the crank out of harder material than the bolt. If so then verify that no threads are left on the bolt and get a thread chaser for the threads inside the crank snout. Clean the threads out real well, getting all of the metal fillings out. Then verify that a new bolt will thread in okay and then attempt to torque it down, but not with an impact wrench. If this does not work then the threads will have to be drilled out and the crank retapped.

[ihatemygrandamg]

Yea I put mine in the oven for a few min, was much easier.

[AaronGTR]

^Good point. I also heated mine up first, although I mainly did that to make it easier to tap the CKP sensor timing ring into the new pulley, it was still slightly warm when I installed it so that may have helped also.

[zhd1000]

alright thanks everyone for the tips... you can tell that the bolt is damaged but the threads aren't stripped off per se but more like they're smashed down or flattened.. can't really tell what's going on inside the crank so i'll have to clean that out first..

[Sprucegagt]

Their stripped. Get a thread chaser and see what is left in the crank.

[zhd1000]

where do i find a good one of those

[Sprucegagt]

Good question. Few hardware stores would stock that size. Best thing I could recommend is looking in a Harbor Freight catalog. But you have to know the bolt size and thread pitch before ordering OR If you know a good machine shop near you? Ask them where they get there thread taps.

[bszopi]

I screwed up the first few threads in a crank once (using the pulley puller w/o the cone top). I can't remember if I used a thread cleaner or a tap. I have a 70+ piece tap set plus a 40-ish piece thread cleaner set, both Craftsman. The whole set isn't something you'd probably use very often, but Sears does carry it... I'll even be a nice guy and run down and find out the size for you since I have a couple spare cranks in the basement...

Its an M12 - 1.5

[zhd1000]

I screwed up the first few threads in a crank once (using the pulley puller w/o the cone top). I can't remember if I used a thread cleaner or a tap. I have a 70+ piece tap set plus a 40-ish piece thread cleaner set, both Craftsman. The whole set isn't something you'd probably use very often, but Sears does carry it... I'll even be a nice guy and run down and find out the size for you since I have a couple spare cranks in the basement...

Its an M12 - 1.5


hey thanks for that info! now, what's the difference between a cleaner and a tap and which would be better for me??

[AaronGTR]

Don't quote me on this but... I believe a tap is larger, since it's really meant for making new threads in un-threaded holes, so it probably has more "bite" and removes more metal. A cleaner probably has narrower teeth to try and clean out mangled metal from the groove between the threads without removing too much metal since that would weaken the threads and be more likely to strip it again. I've always just used my taps for cleaning threads out, but the thread cleaner will probably leave it stronger.

[zhd1000]

so if the threads in the crank are messed up the cleaner isn't going to do me any good..


where can i get a new bolt? would a dealer or autozone carry that center bolt?

[bszopi]

I'll take a pic when I get home to show the differences...

As far as the bolt, a dealership would have them. You might even be able to get one from AutoZone... They haven't changed hardly at all (if any) over the years, so basically have them look up any 3.1 or 3.4 engine over the past 10-15 years if nothing comes up for your car specifically.

[bszopi]

Sorry its not focused very well... Camera just didn't want to auto-focus for some odd reason. Tap is the long, tapered one and the cleaner (rethreader) is the short one.

[zhd1000]

i should stop modding my car... forget the stripped bolt/threads.. i can't even get the gd thing on there.. i heated it in the oven.. and still doesn't go.. :bleep:

[zhd1000]

i've read about people having to file the keyhole down a bit to make this fit.. maybe i should try that? how much filing is needed?? people that have installed this.. did the pulley slide right onto the crank all the way or was some extra pushing and/or pulling needed to get it on the rest of the way?

[zhd1000]

alright.. my dad and i filed the keyhole down a bit and now i'm pretty sure that it's big enough to fit on the crank but now we're thinking that the outside diameter of the hole that slides onto the crank is too large.. reason being is that i put some grease on the outside of the hole in the pulley and tried to put it on.. when it failed and i took it back off, i could see that the pulley had been touching the crank all the way around (does that make any sense?).. maybe the pulley i got is the 1 out of the hundreds that is off...

[Sprucegagt]

That pulley will fit tight. It's made that way so that it doesn't wobble. Heat it up real good and use some gloves to put it on while HOT! It should pretty much just slide on or at least be a whole lot easier.

[zhd1000]

we tried heating it to 375 it the oven.. and it didn't go on any easier... should i try even hotter? like 500 or what?

[tenspeed]

Use the tap to clean out the threads. Put some grease in the flukes to catch the metal parts.

I think that tap size is the same as the wheel studs.

[zhd1000]

so does anyone think that i have a pulley that may be machined incorrectly? think a new one would solve all this? i used ffp's online 'contact us' thing with no response so i supose i'll call and ask them..

[zhd1000]

in their instructions it says "Grease up the seal surface of the new pulley" and "APPLY ANTI-SEIZE TO THE INSIDE BORE TO AVOID DAMAGING THE PULLEY AND CRANK!!! Apply silicone sealant to the keyway to prevent an oil leak"

soo just to make sure i'm doing the right thing here.. could someone put some arrows on the pic below and point to the "seal surface" "inside bore" and "keyway"

o btw.. i just got the pulley back after sending it back to FFP to be re-machined OVER THREE WEEKS AGO.. can't wait for this to be done..

http://www.fastfwdperformance.com/images/products/udp/installation/Step09.JPG

[tenspeed]

The keyway is the groove in the picture. The inside bore sounds like the big hole in the center of the pully where the keyway is.

Not quite sure what a seal surface of the pully is. There is a oil seal where the crank shaft sticks out of the block. Maybe it 's where the pully meets that seal.

That looks like grease in the picture. All the Never-seize that I have used was gray and is a bitch to wash off hands and clothes.

[Malaclypse]

Tenspeed is right about the keyway and inner bore. The sealing surface is the outer edge on the hub of the pulley. Basically the part that will be contacting the front main seal.

I seriously doubt the pulley had anything to do with your problem. Probably just a weakened crank bolt which happens from time to time.

[zhd1000]

I seriously doubt the pulley had anything to do with your problem. Probably just a weakened crank bolt which happens from time to time.


i'm sure that the bolt has nothing to do with the problem since the pulley wont even go onto the crankshaft..

so most people that installed this, it went snugly on without problems?? or was there some encouraging that was needed?

[White_03GT]

so you still dont have the pulley on?

[Malaclypse]

Try a block of wood and a hammer. Its supposed to be somewhat snug. If need be, warm the pulley in an oven for 15-30 minutes before attempting to install.

[zhd1000]

PROGRESS!! yes my car is still not running and yes i have been a bit lazy about getting it back up.. but anyway, took a look at it today and found that the bracket attached to the 24x sensor is broken off and was preventing me from pushing the pulley on.. so unbolted that, moved it out of the way on the pulley pressed on! :D

but now i have to figure out how to remove and install a new 24x sensor.. anyone have the know how for this one?