Pacesetter Headers... For the V6 GA!

[lvemy3100]

well I have been trying to get something going with pacesetter to get some inexspensive headers out for the 3x00 powered Late model N- Bodies...

here is the reply I got from from Eric (sales rep)

hello , well we actually need some head information on the 60-V6's , we just got done building a set on a 00 3.4 m/c , and i know GM kept alot the same , but did change stupid stuff all the time .

but the other 60-V6 header we have are older applications , 2.8 , 3.1 , 3.4(f-body) , and the bolt spacing was different from them to the 00 monte head .

so the years for the larger bolt pattern head , and actual port size are needed(largest port size) .

if gm kept alot simial than prob just be a down pipe difference to fit the N from the W .


Eric Remboldt
Customer Service
602-266-1964
eremboldt@pacesetterexhaust.com



discuss..

also I know there are a few of you out there can supply the needed info and/or car to Pacesetter so please feel free to contact Eric yourself



who knows maybe we can actually get a full header back system for under $800 lol

[Sprucegagt]

I want to say there is more than a downpipe difference between the N and W bodies. But I don't remember for sure what it is. More choices would definitely be welcomed here!!!

[kse73]

Pacesetter is kind of hit or miss w/ their headers... I know a lot of Fbody owners had serious quality issues with them. The new GTO pacesetters have some serious fitment issues causiing damage to the car only a hundred miles in.

[lvemy3100]

got any links to some documented accounts that actually put pacesetter as being to blame.. and what kinda damage are we talking about...

in any case something is better than nothing and like with all things I am sure that if there are any issues they should all get worked out eventually like any new product for any car...

[bszopi]

The biggest issue I could see is the routing of the rear header against the firewall. I know a couple people who have installed either S&S or TOG headers in W-Bodies and the header hits the firewall. So the angle needed to get to the underside of the car would be the biggest hurdle to overcome.

[ihatemygrandamg]

Yea many 3.4 f-body owners have had some problems, but alot of times it is related to gaskets. Many use fiero v6 gaskets cause they seem to work a bit better.

Still Id be very interested in some more info on these. They finally just made an exhuast for us, and Im a tight ass so pacesetter is great imo lol

[2003SCT]

I guess I would be interested in headers...I know Pacesetter is in Phoenix which is only a couple of hours from here(Vegas). Hell we could test them for fitment and I could even do before and after dynos of them on our R&D dyno at work:):)



CHRIS

[2003SCT]

Oh and I think if they made a decent set of headers that showed solid power gains(esp when combined with tuning and with the typical cat back), they would be selling a TON. Why do i think this? Because most of their headers complete are under $300.00. Thats like 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of a nice set of coated TOG's...if you go to their website, they have the prices. Hell they wold sell ALOT more 3400 headers than the 4cyl headers that they have(but I bet dont sell).

Don't get me wrong TOG's are nice but the price is high....kinda like the Borla Catback(I can't complain though because David Borla hooked me up and at $26.00for just shipping, I got the best deal ever:):)I hooked him up on dyno stuff so don't hate:))(BTW..thats the last time you will hear me use the phrase "don't hate")....I have been drinking so I can't help it...vegas baby!



CHRIS

[O1GAGT]

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Here is a perfect example of Pacesetters quality on a 2.2L s-10 header.
Some of the compalints I have heard over the years are, thin flanges that warp, cheap metal, "they rust out in a year", fit sucks, ect.

Not to say they haven't gotten any better, but that is what I have been hearing for years now about Pacesetter.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/Header-rusted.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/header-rusted-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/header-rusted-3.jpg

[notsoaveragej0e]

^^ Wow, cancer you have met thy match...^^

[ganut]

from what I understand, just get the coated headers.

[ihatemygrandamg]

Sorry I cant really tell but in that last pic is there or was there header wrap on there? Im not saying that pacesetters are the best quality but we all know that header wrap can cause cracks and such.

[killians31]

damn, if they can get headers out for about 300$ im in. ill just get them coated, and see how they work out.

[coupe]

^^Exactly, for $300 who cares. Im sure a good ceramic coating would make them last quite awhile.

[AaronGTR]

Headers for $300? You get what you pay for... don't be surprised if they start a fire in your engine bay.


Anyway, whats all this talk of something better than nothing? Have you guys forgotten that you can still get S&S headers? Or that you can't get TOG's anymore? Or that milzy is working on making a set of headers as well? Or you can get flanges from 60v6.com and make your own for that matter.

As far as the guy's question about the bolt spacing and port sizes in the heads, most of the later model 3100's and the 3400's used the exact same cylinder head. The problem isn't the engine but what car they are in. The W-bodies usually used 4T65 tranny's instead of 4T45's and the trans case is taller so they would have to make the cross over different. Then there is the issue about where each engine/trans is located in the engine bay on each car and how much room they have by the firewall. At best they could hope to make a header that would fit most N-bodies like grand am/alero/malibu from '99 up. Earlier 3x00 cars on different chassis wouldn't clear the firewall the same and same with w-body so those cars would have to have their own application. Thats still a lot of cars for each header though. You can't expect to make one header and have it fit 20 cars.

[kse73]

got any links to some documented accounts that actually put pacesetter as being to blame.. and what kinda damage are we talking about...

in any case something is better than nothing and like with all things I am sure that if there are any issues they should all get worked out eventually like any new product for any car...

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113717&highlight=pacesetter

Couple pictures of the problems on the very first post.

[Rich]

well, as concerning as these pictures are i think its safe to say that the 2.4 and 2.2 crowd haven't had many issues. maybe we'll have to see if we get lucky on this one?

[kse73]

Yea, Im not saying that theyre definitely going to be POS'... but I just wanted to let people know of what is possible.

[FORTEEN3GT]

Yea many 3.4 f-body owners have had some problems, but alot of times it is related to gaskets. Many use fiero v6 gaskets cause they seem to work a bit better.

Still Id be very interested in some more info on these. They finally just made an exhuast for us, and Im a tight ass so pacesetter is great imo lol


PACESETTER is a great low buck header for F-bodies... they have a good reputation. dont listen to what others say.

personally i like my Hooker longtubes better though.:applause:

you guys dont have a clue.... T-Tec coating is sufficiant.... no need for ceramic. ..

I had ceramic S & S headers on my GAGT...... Hookers on the TA... and ported Mani's on the GTP.

[FORTEEN3GT]

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Here is a perfect example of Pacesetters quality on a 2.2L s-10 header.
Some of the compalints I have heard over the years are, thin flanges that warp, cheap metal, "they rust out in a year", fit sucks, ect.

Not to say they haven't gotten any better, but that is what I have been hearing for years now about Pacesetter.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/Header-rusted.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/header-rusted-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Black98zq8/header-rusted-3.jpg

that is a result of poor quality metal/lack of coating.... and a bit of a rich condition...... in my opinion.

[O1GAGT]

From what I was told, the above headers were the standard headers (non coated) and the tune was stock. The above results occured in under 2 years of being on the truck.

I agree with the statement about Pacesetter being hit and miss with different vehicles.

[Vegeta]

PACESETTER is a great low buck header for F-bodies... they have a good reputation. dont listen to what others say.

personally i like my Hooker longtubes better though.:applause:

you guys dont have a clue....

Don't listen to what others say, cause you are the standard for which we can judge products. Then you tell me I don't have a clue.

Headers need to be designed per application. They need to be the right primary diamter, primary length, smooth transition to collector, long collector length, proper diameter exit from the collector, and merged from bank to bank as smooth as possible. Equal length primaries are the ONLY way to go if you want performance and consistancy between cylinders. You don't get any of that from your mass produced $300 headers. You don't get that from S&S, nor TOG nor Milzy. Anyone that thinks 2" primaries and no collectors make a set of headers shouldn't be designing them. In fact, Milzy was asking me questions about how to design them (which he ignored on the prototype anyway).

I want to make headers, and I want to do them right, to fit the engine/car and work well for different applications. You have to deal with a closed loop O2 sensor so that eliminates the long tube headers. You have to keep them equal length which again, eliminates long tube. In simulation, 1" can make or break your power output and power band. Since I have all those details sorted out and I have all the measurements from S&S, I already know where to start on this.

The question is, are you willing to pay for a set with some thought put into them, or do you want junk that is cheap?

[2003SCT]

I wish Borla made them for our cars....they would be pricey but not any more than say TOGs


CHRIS

[lvemy3100]

what does it matter if it was borla.... good headers are good headers who cares who makes them.... 660 store is a sponsor and I for one would love to be one of the first owners of a set of headers designed by Ben

you got my vote Ben.. but I think you know that by now

[LoboMan7409]

how much would you be looking at ben?

[Vegeta]

I don't know what it will cost. Im going to outsource the work/design to someone else and go from there. I would hope to keep it about where S&S is but with better power.

The nice thing about 60V6 store is that I don't have to do everything. If someone here (besides milzy) can get it done, then ill work with them on it. I have a lead already for someone to do it but I wouldn't count on anything at the moment. Im sure you guys are well aware of the talk/produce ratio in the 60V6 community.

[gectek]

if your headers could address the issues im having, the crossover is too close to my t stat cover on my gagt. i dont think i could remove it from the lim without taking the front header off. also i had to fully adjust my borla to make sure the high flow cat they put on there wasnt hitting the heat shield, then my exhaust tips are all jacked up and not straight, its either one or the other on that one.

also they put the bung for the upstream o2 only on the front bank at the crossover, which i know isnt a good place to try and find engine perf, especially just from one bank. so i had to have another bung welded down on the bottom collector by the flange. i guess its ok, that way i can use a wideband o2 setup soon, but id rather not have to make that desicion due to a design flaw.

as long as it gives me power like the ss does, or better, with a good coating also, then im in. ill pay a descent amount for quality work

[lastryghts]

headers for the GAGT using 3500 flanges so people doing top end swaps could take full advantage of the new heads and how about an extra o2 sensor bung for a wideband?