Who'd be interested in a s/c for cheap?

[ihatemygrandamg]

Well I was over on 60*v6, and found this thread:
http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=35025

Not sure how many of you have seen this and I know its not exactly the easiest process in the world to do, but for more serious modders this could prolly be done for around $1000-1500 including your m90 and other parts. Not sure if he would plan to develop a manifold to adapt to the 3400 heads, but the 3500 heads would work much better with this. Also some sort of modified hood would be needed but that would be a chance to do some more custom stuff ;)

Like I said I know this wouldnt be the easiest process, but its a great alternaative to the $4000 range for an rsm(crap) or an eaton/mag setup. This could contribute the the grand am aftermarket alot so let them know if your interested!

[O1GAGT]

Keep in mind this is more than likely going to be over a year before this comes out.

He is planning on CNCing a manifold for himself and then going from there. To keep costs low I would assume that he would have them cast instead of machining each and every manifold.

Also he stated he is in the early stages and we all know getting a working product to market takes time and research.

[ihatemygrandamg]

Yea I know this. But he is wondering if anyone would be interested, to see if its even worth it to market it. I know its not like people are gonna start sending him money for a product he hasnt even made a design for yet but I thought I would give some people over here a heads up to check it out. I might look into it in another year or so when I get another motor.

[notsoaveragej0e]

It might be $1500 for the setup, but another 800-1500 to make a custom raised hood.

[Ajaxus]

It might be $1500 for the setup, but another 800-1500 to make a custom raised hood.

if it starts to come together and cerious performance starts turning out the hoods they've been promising, i would put them on the list for designing a hood to go with it.

[lvemy3100]

screw it I'll just cut out a section of my hood... lol I could care less... just gonna be a dedicated summer car after that i guess..

personally I dont mind the look of a SC sticking out of a chopped up stock hood of a car so long as it doesnt get driven in the rain and snow...

[CoopGT]

What I'd like to see are those headers he has on that engine go to aftermarket. Equal length tuned headers nice.

[coupe]

I think i could fit that under my hood, i would have to cut a bit out but no biggie.

[Vegeta]

You should see the 6 TB setup he was working on.

[cmtapanes]

If he comes out with the kit before Milzy gets the turbo kit out I would get one if is less than $1,500.

[AaronGTR]

Keep in mind this is more than likely going to be over a year before this comes out.

He is planning on CNCing a manifold for himself and then going from there. To keep costs low I would assume that he would have them cast instead of machining each and every manifold.

Also he stated he is in the early stages and we all know getting a working product to market takes time and research.


I highly doubt he will be casting manifolds. Do you have any idea how much it costs to have molds designed and made for casting aluminum? It's only cheap if you're making them in the hundreds or more. This would be a low production amount kit, and considering his speciality is cnc machining (hence his name cncguy) it's more likely he would be machining every piece for the kit. ;)


If he could get it to sit as low as he claims it would definitely be much better than the other ideas people have had about putting them on top of the UIM. It might just clear the stock hood with a little trimming on the under side, and it would clear an aftermarket hood for sure. If you put an intercooler under it though (which I would want for sure with that setup) you might run into clearance problems again.

The thing that would really concern me is having to move the powersteering pump (where you gonna put it?) and the belt system for driving the SC. You can't just run it up and over the SC pulley or it will slip. The belt needs to wrap around the pulley and they usually use more tension than the typical serpentine belt does. Thats why the grand prix GTP has a seperate belt and tensioner system for it's blower. That could be one reason why some people with the magnacharger setup have experienced some belt slip. A bigger blower will make more boost but also take more power to turn and belt slip will be even worse unless he fabricates a drive system like the GTP's. It will be interesting to see how he decides to approach this.

[zerocool]

It might be $1500 for the setup, but another 800-1500 to make a custom raised hood.

"As shown is about 1.5" taller than a '95 3100 intake. It may be able to go a little lower but it will make it more difficult to get the injectors in. I have a way around it I think but it would require new valve covers and add more to the cost."

that was his reply to a clearance question on 60degreev6. its been forever since i even looked at clearancing under the stock hood, but it might not even be an issue. which would make this a great option. plus, he is starting out with a few billet, then depending on cost he might switch to a cast version. anyways, nice to see more options out there for the 60*v6's...

[bszopi]

Aaron, you need to look at his website. He does much more than just CNC work...

[sjones419]

Back to the subject of the thread.... hell yeah id be interested... what kind of boost and hp numbers are we talking about?

[O1GAGT]

Just to get a few things straight:

3500 heads will be required


Current predictions on price range between $800 and $1500 (not including the supercharger or tuning)

I would lean more toward the $1500 price range as the PS pump will need to be relocated, a new fuel rail will need to be made, along with provisions for a bypass valve. Not to mention CNC machining a manifold requires alot of R&D and machine time.

Average price for a used Ford Super Coupe Supercharger is about $200

Another thing is that untill the first proto type is built there is no gurantee that it will even clear the hood.

Overall I don't see anyone getting by for any cheaper than $2500 - $3000

[Mendoza]

Sounds like a lost cause to me only time will tell.

[pyro]

Sounds like a lost cause to me only time will tell.
x2...there are too many things that need to be changed/ could go wrong for me to buy one.

[Sprucegagt]

Doubting the design before a prototype is built. :nono: Way to support the aftermarket, guys! :thumbsdow

[pyro]

Doubting the design before a prototype is built. :nono: Way to support the aftermarket, guys! :thumbsdow
having to do the 3500 swap, make new fuel lines, relocate the PS AND cut a hole in the hood, not to mention all the man hours involved in the process. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow
im not doubting it...im saying its rediculous. and there is already an aftermarket for s/c'ing the 3400, the eaton, and even though it is doubted, the RSM kit chas easily replaceable parts. Not to mention you can always go turbo. At the end of this project, the cost/power difference wont be worth the effort IMO. then again im more of an appearance guy, so what do i know.

[AaronGTR]

Oh, I think the cost/power difference would still be worth it, especially using an M90 instead of an M62. I just don't think it's going to be as cheap or easy as some people think. The kit might be cheap but as you pointed out there are other things that will need to be done that will add to the cost. People just have to stay realistic and understand that any kind of boost is going to take money in order to work properly and get good results. There are no shortcuts. :)

[Sprucegagt]

having to do the 3500 swap, make new fuel lines, relocate the PS AND cut a hole in the hood, not to mention all the man hours involved in the process. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow
im not doubting it...im saying its rediculous. and there is already an aftermarket for s/c'ing the 3400, the eaton, and even though it is doubted, the RSM kit chas easily replaceable parts. Not to mention you can always go turbo. At the end of this project, the cost/power difference wont be worth the effort IMO. then again im more of an appearance guy, so what do i know.

I can't believe you of all people are arguing this. If your not going to add to the thread then why post?

Ridiculous? Hardly. Try finding a full Eaton kit today. Most people buying them, if they can find one, still have to get parts to make it work. RSM S/C? Parts have been listed that should make it more reliable but no one has proven it yet. Turbo? Have fun making the manifolds, downpipe, chargepipe and plumbing yourself.

[lvemy3100]

the ONLY way to go turbo is full custom job (not that it cant be done.. obviously) and can run 2.5k+ in price (before tuning)... RSM/Z-spec= 4.4k+ (before tuning) .... eaton (if you can find one) will cost whatever the owner decides he/she wants for it at the time plus cost of parts that may not come with the kit and Tuning...

this M90 setup isnt far off in price from the other methods avail to us and aside from MAYBE having hood clearance issues I cant find one thing that shows as a negative for me... personally I would like for it to NOT clear the hood so I have to chop the hood so it can stick out the top

even if the end price was 3500 before tuning and didnt fit under a stock hood it would still be all good in my book (not to mention I would tune it myself..LOL)

M90+3500 heads > stock 3400+ RSM

[harvester45]

M90+3500 heads < Properly sized turbo + 3500 heads lol

I have to admit that I'm a sucker for turbos. $3500 seems like a lot for what you'd be getting with this setup. A hole in the hood may be appealing to a few people here, but probably not most. And when you figure in how many people will talk about it and not do it... well, it seems dejavu. Granted, the M90 is a better blower the the SC options available right now, and if you went turbo you'd probably have to do it all yourself.

Having said all that, I do think there is a small market for it, and most of those people are on 60*. It's an interesting idea, and I'd like to see it happen, but it just seems like a lot of work when there are better alternatives already existing. I'm definitely not interested in one for myself, but anything that will result in more quick N bodies isn't gonna get too many objections from me.

[Vegeta]

bunch of freakin gypsies around here telling me the future and pricing for a kit that hasn't even hit prototype. Don't like the SC idea? Why post? Don't think it will happen? Why post? If you don't want any new aftermarket support, just keep it up. Ill never forget how you guys turned off comp cams on making us a cam.

[timberwoof]

I may be interested but I don't have a SC yet, so the price of that would have to be included.

[harvester45]

bunch of freakin gypsies around here telling me the future and pricing for a kit that hasn't even hit prototype. Don't like the SC idea? Why post? Don't think it will happen? Why post? If you don't want any new aftermarket support, just keep it up. Ill never forget how you guys turned off comp cams on making us a cam.

I don't know if you were posting about my reply, but I was just replying to lvemy3100 and using the number he used when he said he'd be ok with paying $3500. Also, we should have a pretty clear idea what this will cost, since the guy who might make more of these is making this for himself first. I think once that is done, he'd have way more interest and people with money in hand, but I still think most of the interest would be on 60*. It's amazing the talk/action ratio of this forum. Group buys are almost impossible because of it. I'm just waiting to see what the total cost from start to finish is. It's an interesting idea. I think most people were just posting to highlight potential problems/costs of the setup, the harsh manner in which they put it is just a characteristic of GAGT, I guess.

[Vegeta]

Yeah, I know all about this forum:P I was just seeing lots of different ideas for pricing when TCE has a range of 850-1500 for 1 part of the whole thing.

I didn't expect a lot of grand am owners to be serious about doing something like this, and I didnt even start this thread.

[lvemy3100]

I was figuring the 1500 for what TCE has thought of making and then the remaining 2k would go towards the charger, tuner + any and all bits and pieces wanted/required for this install...

to me a charger sticking out of the hood would be badass on a GA with a stock hood and otherwise full SC/T kit...

now I wont be using a GA but rather a Malibu and wont care how good or bad it will look sticking out of the hood cause the car is being built to go fast NOT to look good.. but hey if it looks good too that would be nice.... not that a GA owner could like a Bu anyway ...... j/p:cheers:

[AaronGTR]

If you don't want any new aftermarket support, just keep it up. Ill never forget how you guys turned off comp cams on making us a cam.



And how did we do that? If thats the truth I've never heard about it. Last I heard they decided on their own that it wasn't worth their time and thats why we had to go to cammotion directly. I'd really like to know where you got this from.



As for the turbo compared to M90 debate... yeah, turbo's are great and make more power/are more efficient than any other form of boost available for us right now. And they will always be a viable option but you still have to go full custom. Most turbo peeps on here though still aren't even running more than 14psi. You could get 14psi easily with an M90 compared to an M62 and the throttle response would kick a turbo's ass! For the street thats the way to go IMO, it makes a more fun to drive car. Either way though turbo or SC you will still need fuel upgrades and tuning that are going to add to the price. Like I already said there is no cheap easy way to boost these cars properly.

[Vegeta]

They read this site and saw guys posting that they could get it done faster and cheaper somewhere else. That is why they decided it wasn't worth their time to R&D it.

Turbo lag is only there if you design the turbo to not kick in till x RPM. Look at the variable turbo setup on VW diesel motors. No lag. Same for gas engines if you have it setup to kick in almost instantly. I like turbos over superchargers personally but I want to see a custom lower intake for the superchargers.

[99Alero_Boy]

the m90 on a 3400 has been done before so I don't see it really being a big deal....

[SpyhunteR]

As for the turbo compared to M90 debate... yeah, turbo's are great and make more power/are more efficient than any other form of boost available for us right now. And they will always be a viable option but you still have to go full custom. Most turbo peeps on here though still aren't even running more than 14psi. You could get 14psi easily with an M90 compared to an M62 and the throttle response would kick a turbo's ass! For the street thats the way to go IMO, it makes a more fun to drive car. Either way though turbo or SC you will still need fuel upgrades and tuning that are going to add to the price. Like I already said there is no cheap easy way to boost these cars properly.

Seems like you're mentioning lag. ahh, um, yeah. My lag is at idle, I've seen boost before 2000rpm on this econobox. Throttle response? Take a spin in grandma sometime.