The calm before the storm........

[lastyear4gt]

Well, I just got the supercharger yesterday. My original plan was to wait until the spring to install it, but I was too pumped. So I started the dissassembly. I figured I would change to a 180* thermostat while I was down there. However, when I went to the local Karbelt to get the t-stat, I found the wait is about 2 weeks because everything is closing up for the holidays, Oh well.

As it turns out, it worked out well anyways. My fiance bought me my gauges for christmas. It will be far easier to install the trans temp sender without the supercharger in the way.

Just as an FYI. When I went to order the thermostat, I found that Hypertech does not make one for our cars. To make a really long story short, I found that the HYP-1020 will fit. It says its for a 1990-1994 3.1L but after cross referencing part numbers we found it is the same. You will have to change the o-ring though as they are different. So contrary to PFYC.com saying its just for the 3.4, its really not!

Anyways snapped some "in progress" pics. Enjoy!

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=FFFFFF&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2316000-2316999/2316217_20_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=FFFFFF&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2316000-2316999/2316217_21_full.jpg

[gaowners32]

Congrats have fun with the install

[puckyou]

Been there, let us know if you have any questions. Take your time, do it right.

[AaronGTR]

Just as an FYI. When I went to order the thermostat, I found that Hypertech does not make one for our cars. To make a really long story short, I found that the HYP-1020 will fit. It says its for a 1990-1994 3.1L but after cross referencing part numbers we found it is the same. You will have to change the o-ring though as they are different. So contrary to PFYC.com saying its just for the 3.4, its really not!


Mmmm, don't think so. Most thermostats for newer engines are pretty universal, or at least for GM's. They are all the same, just different temps and sometimes you need a different gasket. I'm certain they do make one for the 3400 though... it's probably just the same as for the 3100 and they just have never updated their applications list. Not uncommon with large companies like hypertech. I ordered my 180 T-stat for my 3400 years ago from PFYC and it fit perfectly and I did not have to change any gaskets. ;) Anyway, good luck with the gauges and the SC install.

[lone_wolf025]

Heck I just went to an Autozone store and got one no prob. And that was a few months ago.

[lastyear4gt]

Mmmm, don't think so. Most thermostats for newer engines are pretty universal, or at least for GM's. They are all the same, just different temps and sometimes you need a different gasket. I'm certain they do make one for the 3400 though... it's probably just the same as for the 3100 and they just have never updated their applications list. Not uncommon with large companies like hypertech. I ordered my 180 T-stat for my 3400 years ago from PFYC and it fit perfectly and I did not have to change any gaskets. ;) Anyway, good luck with the gauges and the SC install.

Thants exactly what I just said.

[timberwoof]

What's the total cost so far on all the parts???

[coupe]

Yeah i have a spare hypertech still in the box unopened for our cars lol

[lastyear4gt]

I payed $2870 CAN for the supercharger with all the parts/hoses/belt included. However, the hoses were all old, so im replacing them all with the exception of any moulded hoses. The belt was worn, so I replaced that. A couple plugs were broken, so I bought some new rubber ones. So Far Some of the hoses (im sure Ill need more) the plugs and the belt cost me $100 at Napa (with my trade discount), the hypertech t-stat is $18.00, 4L coolant $25.00.

Total so far $3020 CAN. Not to mention the $550 in gauges and harware to monitor all this.

Add to that a custom tune and a few more hoses and we should be in business somewhere around the $4000 mark, wow I have to lay down for a minute, this has been an expensive winter project!

[myneedforspeed]

yeah but when you are blowing by me in a true sc/t on the 401, it'll all be worth it....:applause:

[AaronGTR]

Thants exactly what I just said.


No, you said that it's not for the 3.4 like pfyc says and that you have to change the o-ring. That's not true. You don't have to change anything, it's a direct swap.

[notsoaveragej0e]

Other than the supercharger, will you be doing anything else? cough-rims-cough

[lastyear4gt]

No, you said that it's not for the 3.4 like pfyc says and that you have to change the o-ring. That's not true. You don't have to change anything, it's a direct swap.


If you call Hypertech DIRECTLY like I did, they will tell you that they never made a thermostat for the 3.4. If you look on PFYC, they are advertising a thermostat for the 3.4L engine and a "New GM o-ring as an add on." They also go on to say that "This thermostat is only for the 3.4L engine" which it clearly is not as you noted earlier. So basically pfyc probably literally takes the older 3.1L stat, throughs a GM o-ring on it and calls it "Specifically for the 3.4L engine".

Point being, there is no thermostat "Specifically" for the 3.4, if you look it up in a catalogue it is not there, but the earlier 3.1L engines thermostat is the one that fits. The o-ring may be specifically for the 3.4L engine.

Either way it doesnt matter, I ordered the T-stat that fits!

[lastyear4gt]

Other than the supercharger, will you be doing anything else? cough-rims-cough

Nope not for a while. Its all go for a while, I like the stock rims, and I like the sleeper look. Bigger rims just slow you down!

[myneedforspeed]

sleeper look????? wtf?

[lastyear4gt]

sleeper look????? wtf?

Well its not like I have a big Frigging body kit and ricer wing on it. Unless you are very aware of the Grand am you wouldnt know any different. It looks different but very suttle. In fact I have many people ask me if its factory!

[harvester45]

Lookin good! I like how you're actually following through on what's been in your sig for a while :) That's already a nice car, it's gonna be awesome once you're done with it.

[lastyear4gt]

Thanks man, after the charger and gauges I have to cool it for a while (at least a year) until my wedding in September. Maybe 08 will bring some more toys, next step will be transmission build-up.

[lastyear4gt]

Well as requested here are some updates:

The install is taking a while because time is limited, im still waiting for the damn thermostat and I am extremely anal. All the bolts that came with the kit are being replaced with GM bolts (spare ones from work) to maintain the stock clean look.

The mounting bracket is installed, the vaccuum adapter is installed, I removed the FPR and drilled out, cleaned with water and reinstalled with the CFPR in the kit, the coolant tower is in, and as discussed, I have bypassed the throttle body, removed the throttle body coolant pipes, the small pipe to the reservoir that is supposed to be replaced is not. Instead I cut a section of it out, and repositioned at the thermo housing to loop around the mounting bracket with hose. Removed the stock brake booster fitting and installed a nice plug.

The throttle body is installed on the SC, and Im about ready to put the SC into the car. Just waiting on the F!@#$%G thermostat!

Just one question though, where are we supposed to put the rear rocker cover breather tube to?

Here are some pictures, nothing much but:

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=FFFFFF&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2316000-2316999/2316217_22_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=FFFFFF&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2316000-2316999/2316217_23_full.jpg

[AaronGTR]

Nice. I did the same thing with my brake booster fitting in the UIM. Put a brass pipe plug in it. The rear valve cover breather, if you are using the modified air box that came with the kit there should be a fitting on it to put it into. You might just have to add some hose. Otherwise it needs to go somewhere in the intake in front of the MAF, or you can just trim the pipe on the 90 degree elbow and put a small breather filter on it. That is the intake pipe and the front cover is the outlet, so the rear just needs filtered air.

[lastyear4gt]

OK, so just cut off the tube and put this on:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG3405&N=700+%2D78995+115&autoview=sku

Oh also, the fitting that went into the plunum under the throttle cable bracket on the PCV tube, did you just cut that off and join with a piece of hose?

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, that will work.

Not sure what the other one is you are talking about though. Do you mean the hole in the top of the UIM right behind where the throttle body bolted on? I remember on the stock setup the pcv tube went from the front valve cover to that hole. That hole is supposed to have an aluminum plug with an o-ring in the kit that goes in there then you bolt the vacuum adapter on top (to the two holes the throttle bracket used to bolt to) to hold the plug in. Not sure if that answers your question?

[lastyear4gt]

Yeah, I plugged that hole, but I still have the hole in the pcv tobe that fit into the plenum. I geuss Ill just have to cut that piece out. Wait a minute, I just answered my own question, thanks anyways. I just picked up one of those breathers from car belt , BUT STILL NO DAMN THERMOSTAT!

[lastyear4gt]

There's a few more pics up, will be more of the gauges in a couple days!

[timberwoof]

Its looking good.

[lastyear4gt]

Thanks man, its going slowly but I am very anal about modifications especially on this car!

[timberwoof]

Don't blame you. What advice do you have for somebody who's thinking about getting an SC?

[lastyear4gt]

Ill reserve my advice until all is said and done.

[LoboMan7409]

I am soo looking forward to seeing this thing go

[lastyear4gt]

I am soo looking forward to seeing this thing go

That make 2 of us man!

[lastyear4gt]

well I hit a snag today, just as I was going the final hook ups and geting ready to install the gauge, as I put the light into the socket, the inner lens fell into the gauge and screwed up the calibration. Now its reading 22 Hg in at rest. Called stewart warner, and they are sending another one, but it will be another 2 weeks. After all that work all I can say is FFFFFFF##########$$$$$$$$$KKKKKK! On the flip side, the 3 pillar gauges are installed and the lighting is perfect, just a little brighter though, but not a problem for me!

For anyone that is doing some major modification like this, GIVE YOURSELF PLENTY OF TIME!!!!! If I had of waited till the spring like originally planned, I would have not gotten it on the road until 2008! Every part I ordered it special order; 2 week minimum. Still waiting on my thermostat from 4 weeks ago!

[timberwoof]

Are you getting the 180 Tstat??? If that's the case you can go to alot of auto parts stores and get them.

[lastyear4gt]

Maybe in the US, but not in canada. Tried 3 different stores, I had to order it directly from hypertech.

[mfuller]

FWIW, the Hypertech 180 t-stat is a re-boxed MotoRad part.

[bballr4567]

Im new here but not on GAOC and Im in the process of getting my SC and was just wondering what all parts you had to fabricate yourself. Like you I hate hitting snags that should of taken maybe ten minutes to fix but will take two hours because you dont have the right parts. That bugs the hell out of me.

Anyways it does look good and you are taking your time so lets just hope it turns out all good.

[xonelith]

FWIW, the Hypertech 180 t-stat is a re-boxed MotoRad part.

Ya, I got mine from partsource and listed it on my website:

Motorad part no# 14-4262-0 267-180

[geldartb]

i got a thermostat from a 92 camaro rs in my 3100. its a 180. 15848 3.1 camaro

[AaronGTR]

Im new here but not on GAOC and Im in the process of getting my SC and was just wondering what all parts you had to fabricate yourself. Like you I hate hitting snags that should of taken maybe ten minutes to fix but will take two hours because you dont have the right parts. That bugs the hell out of me.

Anyways it does look good and you are taking your time so lets just hope it turns out all good.


In the process of getting your SC? Meaning you're getting a used magnacharger kit from someone? If they send you everything that came with the kit you don't have to fabricate anything yourself. As long as you have all the parts and the instruction manual you shouldn't have any problems. Of course, you can tell from the rest of this thread that there are always ways you can improve the kit.

[bballr4567]

Yea Aaron its a used kit from someone. There is only one thing that Im going to fab up and its a fairly simple fix. Im just trying to read the small amount of threads there are and get a good base knowledge of the install and the actual SC before I put it in the car.

Im still kind of on the fence about deleting the EGR though. ;crap

[AaronGTR]

We have a good thread talking about the EGR. Lastyear4gt is planning to try leaving it in at the stock location on the UIM instead of routing it thru the blower. I think that would be ideal if it doesn't have any issues.

[bballr4567]

Yea that is what Im thinking also. Something about running exhuast through the SC doesnt sound right to me. Hope 4gt gets the car up and running soon

[KhellendrosxS]

bballr bought his kit from me. I bought it on this forum from 01GAGT. I would have gone ahead and put it on but it didnt make any sence to move it from where it was. It wasnt in the way and should have worked fine in the stock location. Anyway I didnt have time to finish putting it on and find out that it wasnt right. Regardless it is still a great kit.

[bballr4567]

Yuppers.

Like I was looking through an installation manual I found online and I cant really see any reason to move the EGR at all. If there is a mech here who has a really valid reason to delete the EGR or run it through the SC then go ahead and post it up. I read the other thread about the oil catch can and aaron I know you run one on your car but is there really any reason to do so??

[lastyear4gt]

First off, I think I am leaning more towards turning off the EGR functions in the PCM and leaving it there to make it look like it is running. If you decide to leave it in the stock location and run it, you will probably need to pay attention to the operation and make sure you are not blowing boost into the exhaust stream accidently. If you delete it all together, you will still need a custom tune to turn off the EGR function and codes pertaining to the EGR.

Either way you go, it would be advisable to get an oil catch can, as I am. The reason being as I have discussed recently in another post, is that the EGR system assists in burning off the oil vapours from the crankscase, therefore with the EGR removed or located after the SC, you will be allowing alot of oil into the supercharger.

I know the kit you got is different from mine, you have the concept style, I have the Gen 4 I believe (correct me if Im wron Aaron), so I dont know how the setup of the EGR system on yours, but it should be relatively the same.

[AaronGTR]

Yuppers.

Like I was looking through an installation manual I found online and I cant really see any reason to move the EGR at all. If there is a mech here who has a really valid reason to delete the EGR or run it through the SC then go ahead and post it up. I read the other thread about the oil catch can and aaron I know you run one on your car but is there really any reason to do so??


If you read thru the entire other thread, you should already know all the reasons for and against deleting the EGR as well as using the oil catch can. I'm not going to repeat myself when all the info is there already. ;) Suffice it to say there are valid reasons for both, but it's not for everyone.

[bballr4567]

Sorry Aaron I just found the actual EGR delete thread. The one I was talking about was the another thread that briefly talked about it. Sorry for the confusion.

[bballr4567]

Is the storm over yet?

[lastyear4gt]

Just got the thermostat yesterday, finished the gauge install and dash assembly tonight. I ordered a 2.6" underdrive pulley for the SC so waiting on that. As well a guy at work is making me a plate to block off the EGR port on the SC.

Suffice to say I have atleast another month until its done and even then, it will be another 2 or so until I fire it up and take it out. The winter is starting up here and she has never seen snow, so I'd like to keep it that way.

Regardless I will keep you guys updated on the process with pics and such. Ill let you know in a few months how it turned out.

[gectek]

then its prob trans time huh...lol

[notsoaveragej0e]

Just got the thermostat yesterday, finished the gauge install and dash assembly tonight. I ordered a 2.6" underdrive pulley for the SC so waiting on that. As well a guy at work is making me a plate to block off the EGR port on the SC.

Suffice to say I have atleast another month until its done and even then, it will be another 2 or so until I fire it up and take it out. The winter is starting up here and she has never seen snow, so I'd like to keep it that way.

Regardless I will keep you guys updated on the process with pics and such. Ill let you know in a few months how it turned out.

What do you drive in the Grandma's place?

[bballr4567]

Ahhh cool cool. Just wanting to know the progress of it. It being winter doesnt mean you cant finish it up and get it tuned and all that so you are ready to go.

I just ordered my guage pod and guages as well and am still wondering about the EGR, if i should keep it or not.

[lastyear4gt]

What do you drive in the Grandma's place?

I have a 1995 Cavy to drive every day.

[lastyear4gt]

Ahhh cool cool. Just wanting to know the progress of it. It being winter doesnt mean you cant finish it up and get it tuned and all that so you are ready to go.

I just ordered my guage pod and guages as well and am still wondering about the EGR, if i should keep it or not.

I have it all tucked away in the garage. I will tune it in the spring when it comes to life. If there is one piece of advice I can offer you is dont be impatient, rushing things just results in disaster. I am just as excited as you, but I have to curb it for the safety of my investment!

[bballr4567]

HAHAH true. Im planning on taking my next 4 day weekend and getting it on. Im having two pretty mechinacly inclined guys help me out so I dont forsee it taking more then two days honestly. The hardest part for me is going to be wiring up the guage pod because Im freakin colorblind so I might have someone else do that. lol

[lastyear4gt]

If you dont put in the gauges and harnesses first, youll be sorry!

[lastyear4gt]

Updated pics!

The gauges are in and dash is back together. Check it out. Click on the link in my sig. On page 2 there is a picture of the schecmatic for the gauge wiring, a quick pic of the oil pressure gauge sender. On page 3 there are all the pictures of the gauges.

So far taking my time is DEFINATELY paying off.

Enjoy!

[bballr4567]

What guages are those??? I really want to keep the stock color too and have good looking guages as well. Looks good though.

The tranny guage you have to install on the bottom of the tranny correct??

[lastyear4gt]

The trans gauge is installed in the line pressure test port below the thanny cooler lines.

[bballr4567]

Ahhhh gotcha.

What guages are those?

[lastyear4gt]

stewart warner

[AaronGTR]

Wow, those are bright. Hope they don't distract you too much at night. They do look good though and the color is right, bravo. Now keep working on the engine. :)

[lastyear4gt]

My pulley has cleared customs, I have made the block out plates for the EGR port on the SC and plenum, looks like the SC is set to drop into place this comming week!

[gectek]

so if you are going for the sc/t replica, when are you going to attempt the 4t65 swap?

[lastyear4gt]

Im not going that identicle. If that was the case, I wouldnt have any of the gauges I do. Besides, our tranny is far superior ie: less problematic than the 4t65HD.

[AaronGTR]

Besides, our tranny is far superior ie: less problematic than the 4t65HD.

Not sure what you mean by "less problematic". If you mean less problems keeping the 4T45E compared to trying to swap in a 4T65HD then you are deffinitely right. And if you aren't going for mega HP then the 4T45E is plenty adequate and can be rebuilt to handle it if needed.

If you're talking about mechanical problems with the transmission though you'd be dead wrong. The 4T65HD is much more reliable and will hold much more HP before having problems compared to the 4T45E. It has it's downside though (size, weight, etc) and is a pain to swap.

[lastyear4gt]

Not sure what you mean by "less problematic". If you mean less problems keeping the 4T45E compared to trying to swap in a 4T65HD then you are deffinitely right. And if you aren't going for mega HP then the 4T45E is plenty adequate and can be rebuilt to handle it if needed.

If you're talking about mechanical problems with the transmission though you'd be dead wrong. The 4T65HD is much more reliable and will hold much more HP before having problems compared to the 4T45E. It has it's downside though (size, weight, etc) and is a pain to swap.

I beg to differ, but I rebuilt plenty of 4t65HD in GTP's during my career at the dealer. They have just as many problems as the 4t65e.

[gectek]

well its my opinion, with higher HP/TQ come more probs, even it whatever is taking the beating is "made" for it, its still a problem, esp when the people that use them like to boost and go for even higher expectations, i beat the crap out of my trans(4t45e) for 130k miles and the only thing that went bad were the frictions, i have heard plenty of horror stories from the 65e and HD

[lastyear4gt]

Update pics, she's getting close!

[bballr4567]

Sooo ummm Aaron how do you change the spark plugs??? lol


Keep it up man. I want some vids of you starting it up for the first time.

[lastyear4gt]

Well, project hit another rutt today. I ordered all the tubing/couplers/filter for the intake today, and it looks like another month or so until they get here. I guess I have to resort to modding the house now!lol

[harvester45]

Wow, those are bright. Hope they don't distract you too much at night. They do look good though and the color is right, bravo. Now keep working on the engine. :)


If you think those are bright, you should see mine! lol I've got the C2s, and those things are blinding at night. I'm thinking of putting a resistor in the dimmer lead, just to bring the brightness down a little bit.

Back on topic, the car is looking good, keep up the good work!

[lastyear4gt]

Update: Had some time today and weather was good so worked on the car a little more. Check page# 4 of my cardomain. PCV catch can/wiring harness.

[AaronGTR]

That's not the final position for the pcv catch can is it? The hoses look a little close to the exhaust heat shields. They might melt.

You had to length the MAF harness too huh? Guess that sounds right. I didn't have to with mine because I have the ICCU from ZZP too and it has a harness adapter for the MAF that gives me enough length, but if I took it out I'd have to length mine too. It's lookin' good though... counting down to boost! :)

[lastyear4gt]

I had a really hard time trying to find a good location to mount the can because the CAI piping eliminates anything along the Left inner fender area, and the battery is still up front. They are abou 1 1/2-2" away from the exhaust manifold. Ill try it, if they melt I have seen the hose at home depot, ill just go buy some more. Counting down, getting excited now!

[lastyear4gt]

Heheheheheheh........, SHE"S DONE!

I got the injectors on thursday, worked all weekend and got her back together.

Just fired her up, and contrary to popular belief, she actually ran untuned with the LS1 MAF, actually better than the stock maf. It is of course running really rich, and the idle flucuate by 300 RPM, but she does run. No leaks, all gauges come alive and function great. Got the front end back together, and she goes onto a trailer for a 1 week tuning trip tomorrow. Ill update pics tomorrow.

[KhellendrosxS]

Very cool man!!!

I know that there are probably going to be at least two more cars boosted by the end of the month.

[bballr4567]

AWESOME!!!!

Try three Chris!

[timberwoof]

Keep it up man. Post the HP and times when you get em.

[puckyou]

Heheheheheheh........, It is of course running really rich, and the idle flucuate by 300 RPM, but she does run.

So when you start it up the idle flucuates up and down until it warms up?

[lastyear4gt]

I haven't let it run longer than 1 minute. I dont want it to run too long untuned, I can tell it is running WAYYYYY to rich. Just ran it long enough to check for vaccuum/fluid leaks.

[bballr4567]

Yea I can bet that its running really rich. You doing the tune or having someone do it?

[lastyear4gt]

Nope there is a guy not far from me that is doing it. I dont have the money/experience to tune it myself yet.

[lastyear4gt]

I talked to the tuner today and all is good. He has tuned for the maf, injectors and all other modifications. He said at 6500RPM, the boost tops out at 9PSI on the 2.6" pulley. Apparently the car is very responsive and pulls extremely well. He was telling me that he did a 3.4 RSM centrifugal supercharger a couple months back and my kit pulls much harder and boosts much sooner than that one did.

I do however have a problem with knock. He was telling me that he has to take it out today and adjust the timing to eliminate the knock. The fuel pump pressure is not an issue as he figured it would, so he's not going to recommend even a re-wire at this time.

The only recommendation he made is that I save up for a couple weeks and come back for an alcohol injection kit. Droping the intake charge temp will allow me to not only run more timing, but will also help with fuel consumption and will almost eliminate the knock. I didnt realize this but, he was saying with his kit all you do is tee into the washer fluid jug and run the lines right from there, which makes sense seeing as all washer fluid is is water and alcohol. I think that will be my next and last step this season. That should put me well into the 13's.

Any suggestions? How much should a really good kit be? He told me $3-400 not sure if thats installed or not.

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, you would get boost much sooner with a roots blower compared to a centrifugal blower. That's normal.

Schweppe used alky on his kit. It does work, but it has it's downsides. Biggest one is you have to keep filling it all the time. The alky raises the octane and cools the air charge so you can increase timing, but if you have the timing map set in the pcm for the alky and it runs out you'll get crazy KR until you refill it. Personally I would tune out the knock without using alky. Our motors are actually quite detonation resistant compared to L67's, and I almost never get any knock. If you're using the highest octane gas and the right plugs you should be able to get rid of it with minor tweaking of the timing.

Oh, and 6500rpm is pretty high to be spinning the motor and blower. It's also the max for the trans, so I wouldn't go higher than that, and it might be a good idea to back it down a bit. It could also be causing the detonation if it's over 6k rpm, so find out where the knock is. Find out where the shift point is too. If it's too close to the redline, the engine will over rev between shifts at that power level before the trans re-engages, and you'll hit the rev limiter. That could cause detonation and makes the shifts seem to hang. Your shift mph should be set so they happen around 6100-6300rpm so you have some run out room. Those are just my suggestions... I don't know what all your tuner has changed already. :)

[bballr4567]

Yea not knowing exactly what the tuner is changing is kind of a bad thing, at least for me. Which is why im REALLY REALLY happy that I got a DHP and am learning exactly what my engine will do and how it should react. Its also a really fun and informative process.

[O1GAGT]

I have seen several instances where alcohol injection can strip the coating off of the rotors. I believe a few GP guys have seen this and I have seen it first hand on a few Downing Atlanta kits for BMW M42/M44 motors.

Just something to consider.

[lastyear4gt]

I could tune it and in time I too will have my own tuner.

As far as knock, I cant remember how high it was but he said it spike really high only once and thats it. But that could be caused by anthing, not necessarily the combustion process. I am running 94 octane which is the highest you can get in Canada and only from Sunocco. I hope the USA has 94 alot more accessiblewhen I drive to FLA for the honeymoon. Come to think of it, the knock may also be caused by the fuel. I filled the tank with fresh 94 before I took it to him, but the car also sat for the winter with gas in it, may have gone a little bad. Maybe Ill run a few tanks through and then take it back and see if he can advance the timing a little more then.

Like I said though, he is tuning the knock out, which I would imagine won't take too much timing out, and I can add the alchy injection at a later time. The only reason I am considering this is that it would be a cheaper/lighter option to and A2W intercooler and would allow me to run higher boost in the long run. I do see your point regarding the alcohol running out issue, but as long as I am spraying out of the washer reservoir, I have a low washer light and as long as I keep a jug in the trunk at all times I will be OK. When the light comes on, you just back off the throttle.

Eitherway, I pick it up tomorrow, ill drive it for a while, do a few 1/4 mile passes, save some money and think about it. If I feel I want more power, than the injection kit will go in.

BTW, I know there has been alot of talk regarding max boost on the eaton, but with a alchy kit/intercooler how high has anyone boosted with it?

[lastyear4gt]

I have seen several instances where alcohol injection can strip the coating off of the rotors. I believe a few GP guys have seen this and I have seen it first hand on a few Downing Atlanta kits for BMW M42/M44 motors.

Just something to consider.

The rotors? If you are reffering to the supercharger rotors, than there is a problem. Alcohol is meant to be sprayed after the boost before the intake manifold.

However, I can see how that would be a problem on the GTP because in that instance the alcohol kit is installed in the way of a plate between the charger and the intake and, yes in that sitaution the alcohol would get to the rotors. But with this setup, the alcohol would not likely make it to the rotors.

[O1GAGT]

The rotors? If you are reffering to the supercharger rotors, than there is a problem. Alcohol is meant to be sprayed after the boost before the intake manifold.

However, I can see how that would be a problem on the GTP because in that instance the alcohol kit is installed in the way of a plate between the charger and the intake and, yes in that sitaution the alcohol would get to the rotors. But with this setup, the alcohol would not likely make it to the rotors.

Cool, I forgot that the GA system is setup a little different than the other vehicles that I mentioned. In that case alky injection would be a great addition.

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, the alky wouldn't cause any problems because it would be injected after the blower. Also I don't know if our blower would have any trouble with it because we do not have the abradable coating on them like is optional on some of the newer eaton blowers. I guess it depends on what coating is on them.


Anyway, if you filled the tank with high octane but haven't run it thru several times then yeah there certainly would have been some low octane mixed in there and that could affect it. I'd run a tank or two thru before finalizing the timing settings. Maybe have him dial the timing back a tad to be safe until then... then do the final tuning when you know you have good fuel.

I wouldn't worry about trying to run any more boost from that blower though even with an alky kit. That's always been the problem with this kit, is that the blower size limits the output for this setup. Schweppe pretty much maxed his out which is why he switched to turbo. With a 2.6" pulley and 6500 rpm you are already spinning it just over the max efficiency range that eaton recommends. Some people have run as low a 2.2" pulleys on it, but you are over spinning the blower and get diminishing returns, just making a lot more heat and eventually burn out the bearings on that b!tch. lol Basically if you get it into the 13's at 9psi and it's dependable and drivable, be happy with it! If you want more than that you should've gone turbo in the first place.

[bballr4567]

Yup. Just got to build up the engine now. lol

[SpyhunteR]

the damn Eaton blower is only good for 13's.

Turbo or bust.

[gectek]

nah, just put 2 tornados in the intake and one in the exhaust for good measure and itll be in the 11s in no time

[Z3R0]

I missed something i know, but what kind of SC did you use....M90?

[KhellendrosxS]

I could tune it and in time I too will have my own tuner.

As far as knock, I cant remember how high it was but he said it spike really high only once and thats it. But that could be caused by anthing, not necessarily the combustion process. I am running 94 octane which is the highest you can get in Canada and only from Sunocco. I hope the USA has 94 alot more accessiblewhen I drive to FLA for the honeymoon. Come to think of it, the knock may also be caused by the fuel. I filled the tank with fresh 94 before I took it to him, but the car also sat for the winter with gas in it, may have gone a little bad. Maybe Ill run a few tanks through and then take it back and see if he can advance the timing a little more then.



Good luck with that, I think the only places that sell it around me are the Sunocco stations. There is a specialty fuel place close to me that sells all kinds of race fuel but its hella expensive. Id suggest finding some Sunocco stations on the route youre taking down to FL and make your stops accordingly.

[AaronGTR]

I missed something i know, but what kind of SC did you use....M90?


He has one the limited number of magnacharger kits that were sold for the 99+ N-body. They used eaton M62 blowers. An M90 would have given more head room but they would have had to redesign the kit.



For gas, there are a lot of places in the U.S. that sell 93 octane. I can get it all over the place here in MI and it is usually 10 cents a gallon cheaper than the 94 octane from sunoco which is harder to find. I'd tune it on the safe side for 94 and it should work fine on 93. A few states you can only get 91 or 92 octane (ie california), but for the most part you can find 93.

[lastyear4gt]

OK, so I picked the car up tonight. There is wet snow tonight so I didn't get it much over 4psi of boost, but the car is very responsive and it is LOUD! The exhaust completely came alive and the charger wines like mad. I do have a bit of a stumble on medium throttle applications at low RPM, but I think that has something to do with the gap of the plugs. I know the tuner recommended NGK TR6's gapped to 40 thou.

I do however have a problem with a couple of the gauges. The oil pressure is only at 20PSI cold, and goes up slightly as it gets hotter, but does not vary at all with changes in tp. I am wondering now if it is not grounding well through the brass t I used to t off the the factory oil pressure switch and my guage sender.
What should the oil pressure be at roughly?

I also have a problem with the fuel pressure gauge, and I think that may have to do with the install of the sender. What I did was put a nitrous line to the end of the fuel rail and run it remotely over to the upper intake plenum just by the coil packs to the sender. But because the sender grounds through the threads, I soldered a small ground wire to the sender by the threads and put it under the mounting bolt for the sender's bracket. So I either have a bad ground, or the coil packs are inducing a voltage into the sender, but I cant see that being the case its more than 2" away from the coils.

So will the gauge ground itself through the NOS line or do I need that added ground I put it. On a sidenote, the gauge worked fine for the maybe 5 mins I had it running before I took it for tuning. I wanted to pop the hood and check the ground didn't come off again, as it has been a problem, but it was too cold, ill do it tomorrow.

Any suggestions regarding either problem would be greatly appreciated.

[bballr4567]

On my oil pressure gauge I vary from around 25-30 PSI at start up and when WOT at redline Im up around 60-63 PSI. Im using Mobil 1 synthetic but from everybody I have talked to they say that its pretty normal.

Id say that you either have a grounding issue or your wire is getting shorted somewhere. I didnt have the wire on the sending unit all the way when I first installed it and it only read like 10-20 PSI all the time.

[AaronGTR]

Hmmm... my oil pressure usually drops a little at idle after the engine warms up and the oil thins out. The gauge has never been really responsive, but the fluid pressure change would be more gradual than throttle input anyway, and it does go up when I give it a good amount of throttle. My fuel pressure gauge sender is a three wire and is self grounded so I didn't have to ground it. I'm pretty sure it would not ground well thru the fuel rail though. Don't know if where you have it grounded would cause problems or not, but it couldn't hurt to try running a longer ground wire to somewhere else.

[lastyear4gt]

well no, thats the problem. I soldered another ground wire onto the sender by the threads where it would normally ground and grounded it to the engine, thats what I dont understand.

[bballr4567]

Did you use teflon tape?

[lastyear4gt]

No, i used the liquid sealant, i knew better than that.

[bballr4567]

Hmmm then the sealant might not be letting the sending unit ground good enough to the motor then.

[AaronGTR]

The liquid teflon sealer would be fine. There should still be plenty of metal to metal contact.

[lastyear4gt]

Well I had a better chance to get her out for a good run. Like I said, I haven't really pushed her hard because there is a nasty hesitation at low rpm/boost. It seems the hesitation is gone when the car is on the highway. It kicks down nicely, nice firm shifts. I am only getting about 7PSI of boost on the highway around 62 b00 RPM, does this sound right for a 2.6" pulley?

I bought the NGK TR6 plugs and gapped them to 40 thousandths, ill have to put them in this weekend. The front plugs look like a bitch with the sc in place. 2 & 4 look managable, 6 looks tough. Has anyone successfully changed the plugs without removing the charger? Once the plugs are changed, ill take it for a run and see if the hesitation is gone.

As far as the gauges go, the oil pressure does seem to be working properly with the oil pressure between 20-30psi under normal operating conditions. Sound right?

As far as the fuel pressure gauge, I found that the ground wire I installed has come off, so I reinstalled it. 40PSI at idle, 60psi under load.

Everything is good so far. Im dying to give it a good run from a dead stop, hopefully soon.

It definately needs the alchy kit, so I can add some timing. I will be doing that in the next couple weeks. Do you think the I could run 12PSI on stock engine internals with the akchy kit? Im thinking Ill just put some headers on and drop the pulley size and leave the engine, build the trans and call it a day.

Ill update my cardomain sight when I get a chance to clean the car.

[AaronGTR]

You can change the front plugs with the blower in as long as you have the right extensions. 6 is def the hardest to get too though. I'd still rather change the fronts than the rears, and I'd rather change plugs on the GA than the GP any day. Those are a PITA to get to the rears (90v6 vs 60v6).

I think you could get to 12psi, but only because the stock exhaust manifolds are going to cause a restriction. I dropped 2-3psi in the manifold when I installed my headers because the stockers where backing up pressure in the cylinder when the intake valve opened. It would be kinda tough to get 12psi out of that blower on a properly flowing engine. Gotta remember power lvl, not psi, is what will kill the motor eventually.

[AleroB888]

I am only getting about 7PSI of boost on the highway around 62 b00 RPM, does this sound right for a 2.6" pulley?


I was getting about 6 psi peak with the basic Magnuson kit (no headers, stock drivetrain, stock exhaust, K&N), and a 2.5" pulley.

[lastyear4gt]

something sounds wrong there 6psi is what you should see with the stock 2.8" pulley. Your set up is verry restrictive so you boost pressure sould be around 10-11PSI.

[lastyear4gt]

Well, I changed the plugs today, and the car runs much better now, the hesitation is all gone. Surprisingly the front plugs weren't that bad to change. Next the alcohol kit, and then that will be it for the year. Then TO THE TRACK!!!

[puckyou]

Well, I changed the plugs today, and the car runs much better now, the hesitation is all gone. Surprisingly the front plugs weren't that bad to change. Next the alcohol kit, and then that will be it for the year. Then TO THE TRACK!!!

What plugs did you use? I have TR6's waiting here to be put in. Did you remove the SC? What sockets and extensions did you use?

[lastyear4gt]

What plugs did you use? I have TR6's waiting here to be put in. Did you remove the SC? What sockets and extensions did you use?

I used NGK TR6's as well they are great. Gap them to 40 thou. They should be close to that stock. I did not remove the charger and it only took me about an hour to change the plugs. I used a 5/8" spark plug socket, 3/8" rachet, 3/8" flex, 3" and 6" extension. For the rear plugs you may need a 15mm socket on a 6" extension and slide it over the rachet handle for more leverage. For the #6 plug it will be necessary to remove the oil dip stick bend the tube out of the way a little bit. Definately get a set of spark plug wire pliers.

[puckyou]

I used NGK TR6's as well they are great. Gap them to 40 thou. They should be close to that stock. I did not remove the charger and it only took me about an hour to change the plugs. I used a 5/8" spark plug socket, 3/8" rachet, 3/8" flex, 3" and 6" extension. For the rear plugs you may need a 15mm socket on a 6" extension and slide it over the rachet handle for more leverage. For the #6 plug it will be necessary to remove the oil dip stick bend the tube out of the way a little bit. Definately get a set of spark plug wire pliers.

Cool, thanks.

[sc02grandam]

glad to see you putting the blower to good use ;)

[lastyear4gt]

Thanks man, and thanks again for the supercharger. Definately my favourite mod, although the whole package it pretty kick ass!

[lastyear4gt]

OK, here is my last update before the final pics. The alchy kit is here and I will be installing it tomorrow, then back to the tuner. I will post pics at the end of the install.

[ganut]

who did yoo go through for the alchy kit? And what injector size are you using for the alchy?

Anyone here ever send their blower to get porten and polished? I'll probably send my m45 out to get it done soon, as I have an m62 I'll be putting on the 2.4 soon.

I know of a great place to get it done through

[AaronGTR]

Schweppe sent his M62 to magnacharger and had them port it. I don't think I ever heard how much airflow it was supposed to add though.

[SpyhunteR]

who did yoo go through for the alchy kit? And what injector size are you using for the alchy?

Anyone here ever send their blower to get porten and polished? I'll probably send my m45 out to get it done soon, as I have an m62 I'll be putting on the 2.4 soon.

I know of a great place to get it done through

gonna try some M62 action? That'll definitely wake up your car for sure. :)

[ganut]

yea gimme about a month or so to get the manifold made. I don't think I can use the LSJ manifold, because of clearance issues, but I've got the blower sitting in my living room.

[SpyhunteR]

yea gimme about a month or so to get the manifold made. I don't think I can use the LSJ manifold, because of clearance issues, but I've got the blower sitting in my living room.

Need an intake manifold flange?

[ganut]

yes. yes I do.

if you still have my number, call me. So as not to jack this thread more than we have. ;)

[lastyear4gt]

Pics are up on my cardomain, its all done. I guess this will be it for this thread. Next stop the track to see what kind of numbers she produces!

[AaronGTR]

Looking sweet man... and ready to kick some arse! :)

[lastyear4gt]

Thanks man, time to enjoy it in one piece!

[TurboAlero]

Nice work dude, hope to see some vid's of it running tearing up the streets lol

[timberwoof]

Good to hear its all together now. Like everybody else is saying, post vids whenever possible. I wanna see the SC working, like a under the hood shot, revving. Just to hear it.

[SpyhunteR]

Pics are up on my cardomain, its all done. I guess this will be it for this thread. Next stop the track to see what kind of numbers she produces!

Definitely looking good. Get some sticky icky rubber and join us fast boys. :)

[99ramairgt]

car looks good where did you get the supercharger