Are the latest GM LIM gaskets supposed to be installed dry? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Dave Carney
12-31-2006, 09:45 PM
I found a couple of posts (out of the 100+) that indicated they needed to be sealed with permetex or something. I was all set to install them dry (with the exception of the rtv beads on the ridges between the heads).

How are they supposed to be installed, dry?

2002 Grand Am 3.4L, 25,000 miles

LoboMan7409
12-31-2006, 10:13 PM
25,000 miles and your car already had a LIM leak. I just did mine and I put mine on dry. I asked my dad's friend (owns a shop) and he said that the silacone and gaskets have a different expansion rate and it may cause leaks again

Dave Carney
12-31-2006, 10:19 PM
Yes, 25,000 easy miles and already leaking. This is my wifes car, purchased new. Pretty aggravating to have to delve into the engine at this early stage.

I've got a '98 Formula I purchased new, modded the heck out of it, beat the snot out of it, 92,000 miles, 200+ quarter mile passes and no problems at all. I suppose the GA is making up for the good luck on the bird.

LoboMan7409
01-01-2007, 03:24 AM
Well my guessing is that the GA doesnt get driven too much because that is LOW miles for a 4 year old car. But if I were you I would get the new felpro gaskets, they are a million times better, instead of plastic they are metal and the gasket is 3 -4 times thicker, Ill post some pics.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/LoboMan7409/DSCI0010.jpg

you can see how much better they are because the stock GM one is behind it. Hope that helps.

2000BlackGAGT
01-01-2007, 05:59 AM
i got those same gaskets from fel-pro. i like them. no silicone. easy to install.

Dave Carney
01-01-2007, 08:59 AM
It's driven daily, but it's only 7 miles to work for her.

Thanks for posting those pics. I actually tried to buy the felpro kit locally but everybody was out (imagine that). I've already ordered everything including the GM kit but now looking at the Felpro kit I'm thinking I may go that route, it does look better to me. I could put the GM kit on Ebay I guess.

Dave Carney
01-01-2007, 09:19 AM
I just ordered the felpro kit. After I'm done with the job I'll put the left over GM stuff on ebay.

Exodus
01-01-2007, 11:58 AM
Well be ready for that to happen again.
Had mine fixed at 20,XXX and now at 50,XXX
Great stuff.

Dave Carney
01-01-2007, 01:12 PM
which brand gasket was used on your car when it was changed? GM?

In fairness to GM version 3.xx, the Felpro hasn't been out long enough to know if it's a survivor, but it does look better to me.

LoboMan7409
01-01-2007, 03:22 PM
they are on version 3?

Dave Carney
01-01-2007, 03:29 PM
No, mine aren't....I'm talking about the current version that GM is pedaling to fix the problem, part #89017279, which I believe is third design of this gasket.

Vegeta
01-01-2007, 03:30 PM
Yes, the metal gaskets are the 3rd revision. The metal tabs around the coolant passages are the 2nd revision. There is a 2nd revision tighening sequence for the bolts I believe as well. The key is to not overtorque the manifold bolts.

Dry is the answer btw,other than between the heads as usual.

dna_dan
01-03-2007, 08:37 PM
I just ordered the felpro kit. After I'm done with the job I'll put the left over GM stuff on ebay.

If you were wise you would sell it while the gasket fix is working! There seems to be three classes of people here:

1) Never had a LIM leak
2) Had a LIM leak, did the repair and had no problems since
3) Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair, Had a LIM leak, did the repair.

I think you get my point. I personally did mine with the V2.0 gaskets (black ones shown in the picture) at about 80,000 miles. Right now I am 132,000 miles and going strong. :amraam:

I also switched out the Dexcool to Prestone Extended Life. 50,000 miles later, the coolant is clear as piss. This is a stark contrast to the Dexcool which turned on me around 20,000 miles.

LoboMan7409
01-04-2007, 12:24 AM
I hate to say it but I am in the third section

alerored04
01-05-2007, 06:41 PM
i will be doing my lim here in the next week or so, should i switch from the dexcool? if i decide to will i need to have the coolant system cleaned of the dexcool before i add new stuff or can i just stuff the ol garden hose in the resevior to flush it? Any other tricks i need to know before i dive into this? I have the walkthrough posted here im just wonderin if anyone found any other tricks to make it easier?

Also, what exactly is the point of removing the pushrods? I read the whole walkthrough, all it told me was to remove them and then basically reinstall them and retorque the rocker arms. Is the only point of this to inspect for wear? Just curious, also how would i tell if my rockers are worn and need to be replaced? My car has 100,000 on it and i figure i should check this stuff but i need to know what to look for.

LoboMan7409
01-06-2007, 12:02 AM
I am getting rid of my dexcool, but that is just because I think it is crap strictly IMO

jduce
01-06-2007, 06:02 AM
Also, what exactly is the point of removing the pushrods? I read the whole walkthrough, all it told me was to remove them and then basically reinstall them and retorque the rocker arms. Is the only point of this to inspect for wear? Just curious, also how would i tell if my rockers are worn and need to be replaced? My car has 100,000 on it and i figure i should check this stuff but i need to know what to look for.



The pushrods have to be taken out because some of the gasket goes under them.

geldartb
01-06-2007, 07:54 AM
im thinking im going to have to do mine again, on the way back from rhode island last night low coolant light comes on but it looks likes theres plenty of coolant in there, not low enough to set off the sensor.
but the left side of the head and down where the lim meats the block is wet..

rlandis
01-06-2007, 08:04 AM
Is it possible for the lim to leak oil at a very slow rate? I usually lose about 1/2 a quart to a quart of oil every 3k miles. I can see where the oil is seeping down the lim on the heads on both sides and my oil pan is wet all over. It doesn't drip on the ground tho which I think is kinda odd.

alerored04
01-06-2007, 11:25 AM
Cool, thanks for the replys guys.

cals400ex
01-21-2007, 11:02 PM
so do we not know if the felpros newest and gm's newest gaskets are comparable yet?

Steezer
01-23-2007, 07:16 PM
I just had my second lim gasket change this past weekend. Used the new Fel Pro looks much better than the GM gasket. Gosh I hope this new one works.

cals400ex
01-23-2007, 08:37 PM
you don't have the part number handy for that new felpro kit do you?

drumking1721
11-24-2007, 02:02 PM
hey bringing this back up...any new comparisons on the two sets? im doing mine here in a couple weeks.

dna_dan
11-27-2007, 09:19 PM
I don't know about the different sets, I just made my own. I used the orange Felpro for the heads, but the real problem is the end of the block. The typical rubber style seal has a tendency to squeeze out while torking down the manifold or it can also form a leak where it hits the head.

What I did was buy some hi temp fiber gasket material and cut out the shape of the end seal. I then bought some RTV. Now all RTV is not made the same, so ask the shop what's the hardest bonding type they have. The one I used was black, and once it cured it's a VERY tough seal, not very flexible like a silicone would be. Anyway, I put RTV around the water jackets, then laid the side pieces. I know the Felpro's are designed to be put on DRY, but since I was taking matters in my own hands, I figured why not. I then laid RTV across both end seals, laid my gasket, then another layer of RTV. I basically made a sandwich out of that stuff. I described this in another thread from about 2-3 years ago. I am still high and dry and running like a CHAMP! My LIM fix was done at ~80,000 miles and now I am sitting at ~140000 miles.

Effectively I think what I did by doing it this way was make a "thicker" gasket like the new ones are. When I dry fit my manifold on the block the gap was a LOT bigger than the gasket, thus my reasoning to make an RTV sandwich out of the damn thing!
Good luck, and watch that damn fuel rail o-ring. That baby set my job back a day because I could not find one locally. Special order only.

stewartfn18
11-27-2007, 10:43 PM
I just did mine with the fel pro gaskets, 73,000 miles. well see how long they last. Did anyone else think this was a pain in the ass or is it just me because i dont have any patience. Hence why im not getting into the automotive field anymore.

Shadowfaxgt1
12-06-2007, 06:42 PM
I did mine with the GM gasket (version 2) at 82k. All of the gaskets are to be installed dry except for the ends of the galley and a small bead to each corner of the gasket. I traded in my GA with 164k on it and still no leaks.
I've never used any sealant on IMGs but do use weather strip adhesive at a few choice points to hold the gasket in place when installing the intake manifold on a v-block. Done 100s in this fashion.

timka86
12-20-2007, 01:33 PM
so what's the part # and where can I get the metal fel-pro gaskets?

stewartfn18
12-20-2007, 06:34 PM
im not sure what the part number is but autozone sells the kit for like 80 bucks. comes with the o rings and rtv youll need.

timka86
12-20-2007, 08:56 PM
im not sure what the part number is but autozone sells the kit for like 80 bucks. comes with the o rings and rtv youll need.

thanks, i'll check it out.