HP vs. DHP (N-Body Related)

[Sprucegagt]

Since this was brought up in another thread I thought it should be discussed here. To get things going, I submit this discussion I had with HP users on fullthrottleV6.com

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23424

Now I decided to end this discussion when I never got specific "items of merit" describing exactly why HP is better than DHP. Even though I did site examples of what I heard had been lacking with HP software that DHP already provides.

I want to hear what both sides have to say about there experiences and please list specifics. This is open to all members and guests as long as the discussion is kept civil with no mudslinging.

[SpyhunteR]

Advantage of HP over DHP.

HP has support for v6, ecotec, and the 2.4.

If you have a 4cyl n-body, HP is your only option.

if you have a 2.4L you have the option of a 1bar or 2bar PCM configuration.

HP is not a custom PCM, it allows you to adjust parameters that are already existing. I.E. if the PCM that GM put together is set for 2bar, you can't go beyond 2bar. This is a limitation in the HP software.

It seems like both DHP and HP are basically differently packaged software suites doing the same thing. DHP however has the ability to go beyond 1bar, with 2 or 3bar from what it looks like on their site. While for HP to do this, they have to basically make a custom PCM, which for them is too much of a hassle for at the current time.

HP I know is constantly adding parameters all the time for people, and are always quick to respond on issues or missing functions that need to be included.

There's something to chew on for a bit.

[SpyhunteR]

Here's why HPT is better. It isn't.

It depends on which one you think you would be more comfortable with. There's a learning curve when using both tuners. I've been able to contact the HP people and get a speedy answer pretty quick with no hassle along the way. If there was a glitch they tend to have an update for me within a few days. Since I was one of the first people w/ 4cyl software, there definitely were issues that came up and all were fixed.

Meh, honestly. I tried to ask DHP about making something that I could use. They just said not interested. HPTuners, they came up with something.

However if I can't get 3bar support anytime soon, I will be looking at a full standalone option, of either AEM or TEC3

[TurboAlero]

The only reason I bought the Hp tuner is that DHP didn't had the tuner in stock when I needed it. But I like the hptuner just you need to learn to work with it.mmm what I don't like is that they don't support the 2bar or 3bar so yeah what to do.

[99Alero_Boy]

Here's why HPT is better. It isn't.

It depends on which one you think you would be more comfortable with. There's a learning curve when using both tuners. I've been able to contact the HP people and get a speedy answer pretty quick with no hassle along the way. If there was a glitch they tend to have an update for me within a few days. Since I was one of the first people w/ 4cyl software, there definitely were issues that came up and all were fixed.

Meh, honestly. I tried to ask DHP about making something that I could use. They just said not interested. HPTuners, they came up with something.

However if I can't get 3bar support anytime soon, I will be looking at a full standalone option, of either AEM or TEC3

what about megasquirt? heard good things about it.....

[TurboAlero]

If you want a good stand alone system, go MicroTech it's the best way to go if you can afford it hihih.

[xonelith]

I went HPT because I don't plan on owning only a V6. Eventually a V8 would be nice and it just made sense to have the option to tune it with one purchase, especially since these things are fairly expensive. Also, I might want a 4 cyl for fuel mileage... who knows:)

Also, as turbo said above, DHP was out of stock and there was a really long wait time for it, so it made my decision real easy.

[SpyhunteR]

I went HPT because I don't plan on owning only a V6. Eventually a V8 would be nice and it just made sense to have the option to tune it with one purchase, especially since these things are fairly expensive. Also, I might want a 4 cyl for fuel mileage... who knows:)

Also, as turbo said above, DHP was out of stock and there was a really long wait time for it, so it made my decision real easy.

so your decision came down to the ability of having one unit that has the flexibility of tweaking beyond the grandma. So it's versatility in being able to handle other applications.

[xonelith]

so your decision came down to the ability of having one unit that has the flexibility of tweaking beyond the grandma. So it's versatility in being able to handle other applications.


Ya it was. I researched the hell out of DHP and HPT and for the GA, there wasn't much difference (at the time DHP didn't have 2/3 bar support either). So, from the GA perspective, there wasn't much difference. I'm still not sure what else DHP has that HPT doesn't, other than the 2/3bar. Maybe other boost parameters that I don't need?

[SpyhunteR]

what about megasquirt? heard good things about it.....

I've played with the AEM software a little bit and I kinda dig the layout. To me it looks really user friendly, uses primarily GM sensors, so I would be able to get up and running fairly quick.

The TEC3 uses a similar ignition setup just like what im running now. Actually I see that the TEC3 wiring would be the simplest for me.

Everything I hear about Megasquirt is that its awesome, but I don't see it as a solution for me.

As it stands right now I'm just trying to get some versions of other engine management software so I can play with them and see what I find is the best for myself. I know people in Vegas have tuned AEM and TEC3 systems as well as some others which aren't an option for me. So I will be getting something where I can get some support locally at least support in the fact there is a base of people here that are familiar with certain software and the specific quirks associated with them.

I think I garbled up my entire meaning pretty good there.

[99Alero_Boy]

yeah John (springsfastestalero) had a tec3 in the work, seen it in person, looks like a solid solution........

[xonelith]

Spruce, I replied to your post in FTV6.... let me know if there is soemthing else you wanted to know.... there was alot of reading...LOL

[harvester45]

DHP doesn't really have much support for the 2 and 3 BAR MAP sensors for us yet. There is still the issue where Barometric pressure is tested at WOT, which makes it pointless to have a 2-3 bar at this point. It seems like it should be a fairly easy fix, but who knows when they'll get around to looking into it. So the 2-3 BAR is not an advantage right now.

[Sprucegagt]

The only bad things I've heard about Megasquirt is the lack of electronic trans support and just the fact of having to re-wire a new PCM into the car.

But I want to keep this thread about HP and DHP users and experiences. No offense, just want it to stay on topic.

[jturkey69]

why havent any of these 2 companies included there own lil mini handheld tuner, or do they and i missed it?...SCT has a nice set-up for my excursion diesel, and they are actually looking into gm front drivers (eco, 2.4 3.4) last i knew, you needed a laptop to do all this tuning.

just to add some fire to the pot, most diesel tuners(aka guys that will custom tune) will take your info over the phone, and create/tweak programs that you can either flash, or install inthe form of a pcm. granted, ive been away for half a year dealing with newborns, and extending a family, but by now shouldn't there be much more user friendly support??, or is diesel that much more tuner friendly?

[Sprucegagt]

Actually those handheld units are really generic tunes, just like buying a "tuned" PCM. The only difference is your downloading the program yourself instead of buying a PCM that has the program in it. All of the diesel guys I know would much rather have laptop tuning available to them than a handheld programmer.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread topic!

[AaronGTR]

why havent any of these 2 companies included there own lil mini handheld tuner, or do they and i missed it?...SCT has a nice set-up for my excursion diesel, and they are actually looking into gm front drivers (eco, 2.4 3.4) last i knew, you needed a laptop to do all this tuning.

just to add some fire to the pot, most diesel tuners(aka guys that will custom tune) will take your info over the phone, and create/tweak programs that you can either flash, or install inthe form of a pcm. granted, ive been away for half a year dealing with newborns, and extending a family, but by now shouldn't there be much more user friendly support??, or is diesel that much more tuner friendly?


Having a hand held tuner would add extra cost to the setup, and they usually don't have as many options. Most people tuning cars already have laptops, and you can do more with a laptop, so it makes sense to just make an interface for the laptop and give you tuning software to run on it.

As for ordering tunes over the phone, that is not the best way to do it. No matter what info you give them, there are always variables they can't know or account for unless they tune your car in person. Every car is different and a spark table that might give one guys car a couple degrees of KR might run fine in someone else's car. So they make their tunes on the safe side to try and avoid problems (similar to the "generic" pcms from DHP and others), but they are not optimized for your car.

[SpyhunteR]

why havent any of these 2 companies included there own lil mini handheld tuner, or do they and i missed it?...SCT has a nice set-up for my excursion diesel, and they are actually looking into gm front drivers (eco, 2.4 3.4) last i knew, you needed a laptop to do all this tuning.

just to add some fire to the pot, most diesel tuners(aka guys that will custom tune) will take your info over the phone, and create/tweak programs that you can either flash, or install inthe form of a pcm. granted, ive been away for half a year dealing with newborns, and extending a family, but by now shouldn't there be much more user friendly support??, or is diesel that much more tuner friendly?

laptop tuning is far superior.

[jturkey69]

laptop tuning is far superior.

yes i know this, but by now with as many n-body owners out there that have pushed there cars far beyond what anyone expected, some of these bigger tuning companies should have takin a few of these modified tunes, like in my diesel tuner, so the user could go from street tuned, to a bolt on tune, to a boost tune, and with a few of the handheld tuners, you can adjust alot of parameters like spark and timing.....i know the laptop is our preferred choice, but when i compare our choices, to what the diesel guys have done, it makes me wonder why we aren't there yet

[SpyhunteR]

yes i know this, but by now with as many n-body owners out there that have pushed there cars far beyond what anyone expected, some of these bigger tuning companies should have takin a few of these modified tunes, like in my diesel tuner, so the user could go from street tuned, to a bolt on tune, to a boost tune, and with a few of the handheld tuners, you can adjust alot of parameters like spark and timing.....i know the laptop is our preferred choice, but when i compare our choices, to what the diesel guys have done, it makes me wonder why we aren't there yet

Diesels and trucks are basically the only apps where I find it that people can have a tune in a box. Even then, anybody I have ever known that goes to built motors, boost, nitrous, all out N/A they tend to go w/ a standalone, or something on par w/ HPTuners/Hondata/etc. and not the tuner in a box.


Granted I'm generalizing now, but.

This is niche market that we all decided to play and tune in, is an ever shrinking market the more years removed we are from these motors, and the older these cars become. There might be a lil jump here and there w/ new products, but they won't be on the shelves for many years, and quite possibly after initial product runs won't be ready for another batch ever again.

[jturkey69]

This is niche market that we all decided to play and tune in, is an ever shrinking market the more years removed we are from these motors, and the older these cars become. There might be a lil jump here and there w/ new products, but they won't be on the shelves for many years, and quite possibly after initial product runs won't be ready for another batch ever again.


well said

[bballr4567]

Ok so from this thread I really havent gathered which is better for the GA. Im putting an Eaton SC on in about a month of so and Im planning on tuning it myself since all of the people that can dyno tune it are a good 6-7 hour drive one way. I understand that HP has way more options to tune other motors then the 3400. Im planning on picking up a G8 after a deployment and would rather not have two tuners.

So is the HP the way I should go?? I have barely started to research eachand would like a little input from the way smarter guys.

[AaronGTR]

The G8 is going to be a new car, and HP doesn't support every new platform out, so I wouldn't base my buying decision on that. You don't know that you will be able to tune that with HP or not, to early to tell.


The tuning community for GM v6's is bigger with DHP and IMO thats enough right there, to know that I can get help from people who know what they are doing with these engines and are using the same tuning software.

[harvester45]

Does the G8 use CANN or whatever? I know some of the newer GM cars do, and I'd imagine that the G8 does. If it does, I don't believe you'd be able to use any OBD2 tuner on it. So if that's the case, the only reason to let the G8 tuning affect your decision is if you want the same software layout for both, so you don't have to relearn tuning with a new tool. I've heard rumors that DHP will eventually add support for it, but I have no idea about how far along HPT is in their development. Can anybody confirm any of this?

[bballr4567]

Hmmm thats interesting if GM is going to yet another format. Yea Im not going to be tuning the G8 right away but I would like to in the future but it would just be a good plus to not have two tuners.

As of right now Ill just concentrate on the GA and its tuning. Ive heard that the DHP is better for new guys just because of the amount of people that know what they are doing and are able to share that info with you. Of course Im not going to do a real aggressive tune at first but at least something to were the car will run good with the SC.

[AaronGTR]

Some of the current new GM cars are already running CAN.

[SpyhunteR]

I believe HPT actually is supporting some of the newer GM PCM doodads. If you really want to know, go to the websites of both tuners and see what options they offer and check out the screen shots of what they look like.

[ImpetuousRacer]

I have not dealt with HPT, but DHP took over a year for them to half way resolve some of my issues. Constant emails, and posts on the website to them. Half way follow through, slow response time if any. No immediate support when needed. Programmer didnt work on some parameters on my car. (Being Malibu)
Boiled down to overstressed one man operation as a second job. Could be becuase noone else has Malibu tuning needs, and not worth the follow through.

I mean they did do stuff for me no one else could do. But, they had me by the B@lls because of it. Any other company, I would call BBB, but, understanding the work they were doing, and the situation, I was ok with it to an extent. Just my 2 cents. I would do HPT next time.

[lastyear4gt]

In regards to both of these tuners, do you have the availability to reset/buy into new VIN'S? Ie, if you get a new car?

[AaronGTR]

Yes. VIN does not matter, only the years and models of cars. In the case of the DHP if you buy a PT for 3400 you'll be able to tune all 3400's from 99-04 I believe. You can also use the tuner to change the VIN in the pcm if you want. Useful for people who keep spare pcms.

[SpyhunteR]

In regards to both of these tuners, do you have the availability to reset/buy into new VIN'S? Ie, if you get a new car?

HPT you can purchase credits that allow you to get into other GM car PCMs.

[Sprucegagt]

Yes. VIN does not matter, only the years and models of cars. In the case of the DHP if you buy a PT for 3400 you'll be able to tune all 3400's from 99-04 I believe. You can also use the tuner to change the VIN in the pcm if you want. Useful for people who keep spare pcms.

Actually its for all 98 - 02 GM V6's that DHP supports. It's not limited to just the 3400 for us.

[AaronGTR]

Actually its for all 98 - 02 GM V6's that DHP supports. It's not limited to just the 3400 for us.

Not what they told me. I was using the current version of PT but I couldn't tune the pcm in my '97 GP. They told me I could tune all 3400's thru 04, but that I had to purchase extra support to tune my GP.

[Sprucegagt]

Then you heard wrong. It has always been from 98 - 02. Now I do know that the GAGT code remained unchanged from 01 - 05, but I don't know if that's for other vehicles as well.

DHP Wide Open Option (http://www.gmv6pcm.com/index.php?showtopic=3645) (Sorry non-DHP owners, you can't view this link.)

[AaronGTR]

Thats not what I heard, it's what I was told BY DHP support. So I guess they told me wrong. But still, I did have to buy extra support because I tried reading the pcm in my GP first and it told me it was unsupported.


btw, that link does work but I know which thread you are talking about.

[O1GAGT]

The link works fine for me.

I too have always been told 98-02 is wide open, with optional add on's for 97 & 03-05.

[lvemy3100]

if you buy the PT with only 97 support you will only get 97 support... if you purchase support for any 98-02 you get the 98-02 wide open (meaning you can tune all 98-02 gm v6 powered passenger vehicles DHP supports... if you purchase support for a vehicle that is 03+ then you will get suport for only the year requested and would have to purchase support for each additional year... say you are like Aaron and you purchase support for a vehicle included in the W/O option (in his case 00' GAGT) and then wanted to tune your 97' GP, you would have to purchase additional vehicle support (dont know the price off the top of my head) but now you would have the option of tuning all 97-02 gm v6 powered passenger vehicles that you own...

FYI- you cannot tune for profit using DHP hardware/software unless you purchase their commercial tuner support, hardware and software.

[gectek]

no, usually you get 2 options with purchase of the PT...one wide open and one year specific, like i got the 98-03 wide open MC and an 02 GAGT for the same price, and u even get the A/D also at no charge right now

[puckyou]

no, usually you get 2 options with purchase of the PT...one wide open and one year specific, like i got the 98-03 wide open MC and an 02 GAGT for the same price, and u even get the A/D also at no charge right now

Where is the best place to pick up the DHP right now, PFYC or directly through DHP?

[gectek]

Go direct, PFYC screwed up my order...def go direct from DHP. that way when you want to know shipping then u can get it from the horses mouth and not through the middle man

[lvemy3100]

no, usually you get 2 options with purchase of the PT...one wide open and one year specific, like i got the 98-03 wide open MC and an 02 GAGT for the same price, and u even get the A/D also at no charge right now

there is no 98-03 W/O option.. it is 98-02 W/O and so your 02 is included in this and you ordered 03 support separately (sp?) making it W/O from 98-03.. this is just like what I said before only isntead of going with a 97 like Aaron needed you went with an 03... you could have also gone with 04 or 05 instead of the 03 if you had the need but the if you order for any vehicle from 98-02 you end up with the 98-02 W/O..

A/D is not free.. some people have gotten lucky and were given a free A/D connector as a result of unusually long wait time.. some NOT ALL but it is normally a $100 add on IIRC so be happy if you do get one..

[gectek]

well i did get the 98-03 option for no extra cost, so i guess that was in my favor and also they are offering the A/D ugrade for free right now to offset the extended delivery time, i heard that direct from stevens mouth

i wouldnt post what i did unless i knew what i had ordered

[lvemy3100]

again there is no 98-03 option it is only 98-02.. DHP is not obligating themselves to provide free A/D connectors with EVERY order.. they are doing so when they feel it is needed so not everyone who orders right now will get one for free.

[gectek]

look we can just agree to disagree, :horse: ...damn

[puckyou]

Go direct, PFYC screwed up my order...def go direct from DHP. that way when you want to know shipping then u can get it from the horses mouth and not through the middle man

Thats what I was figuring as I seen pfyc site state that it will ship 3-4 weeks after you order.

[gectek]

yah well that wont happen...lol, it took almost 2 months, about 7 weeks

[puckyou]

yah well that wont happen...lol, it took almost 2 months, about 7 weeks

Just tried log onto the webiste and its down for remodeling......sent them an email lets see how long it takes to hear back.

[gectek]

just make sure its to the right address, they have a new email, its support@digitalhorsepower.corphelp.net , if its not that, it will make u resend it

[puckyou]

Thanks, now the waiting begins.

[Sprucegagt]

A very good pro / con discussion about HP vs. DHP. Read up and then decide on what works best with you.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3669529&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

[lastyear4gt]

So basically, this is what I am getting from here. Tell me if Im wrong:

HP tuner: Better technical support, more availability to tune 4,6, and 8 cyl engines, does not support 2&3 bar maps, not as many knowledgable users on the forums.

DHP- tunes only 6 cylinder engines, but if set for 3400, will tune ALL 3400's, more knowledgable tuners in forums, lousy technical support.

But in the end do they both get the same job done? Are they both equally user friendly with some user knowledge?

Right now, I am leaning more towards HP when I buy my tuner. Any reason why/why not?

[Sprucegagt]

Bottom line:

If your a noob to tuning then I'd get DHP if not then HP.

[xonelith]

Actually, that is debateable (the noob comment).

True, the knowledge on the DHP forums may have more useful information regarding the 3400 (this I'm trying to change:)), however I believe (unless many changes have been made), the interface for HPT is much more user friendly, and you won't need external programs (like excel) to do your tuning.

I've started creating some how-to's on my website (using HPT). I hope they may be helpful. Once I get them all done, I'll be asking the experts here (Spruce, Aarongtr, spyhunter and tejohnson) to provide me some feedback. So far, I only have 3 setup:)

Keep in mind, DHP is much cheaper. Money is a deciding factor for many.

It's up to you. Use what you think you like better. You can download the full owner's manual and help guide from the HPT site, and I'm sure someone with DHP here, can provide you with some nice info on DHP.

Also, I'm not sure I would say that DHP has terrible technical support. I haven't heard anything like that before.

[lastyear4gt]

Anyone have the website for DHP? Ive only ever seen a brief description of it on PFYC.com

[SpyhunteR]

So basically, this is what I am getting from here. Tell me if Im wrong:

okay here goes


HP tuner: Better technical support, more availability to tune 4,6, and 8 cyl engines, does not support 2&3 bar maps, not as many knowledgable users on the forums.

Hptuners supports most GM OBD2 calibrations, when brought to the attention of HPT staff. For example, us 2.4L people ended up getting all the calibrations available both 1bar and 2bar cals unlocked and tunable.

HPT also offers some multi-bar apps for the bigger motors.

The users found there isn't as knowledgeable on the v6 and 4cyl apps due to the fact that those have only been available fairly recently, and also don't forget that a lot of motor specific information can be found on engine specific websites, whereas HPT's forums is more to help people get started, glitches, and help teach certain things or help people understand certain things that they are not getting. There's a lot of how to's on their forums if you just know how to search just like any other forum. The knowledge is ever expanding over there, especially with the influx of smaller motored asshats like myself.


DHP- tunes only 6 cylinder engines, but if set for 3400, will tune ALL 3400's, more knowledgable tuners in forums, lousy technical support.

depends on who you talk to, and personally i have no comment. Seems like what you can do with DHP and HPT are ............ essentially the same.


But in the end do they both get the same job done? Are they both equally user friendly with some user knowledge?

yep


Right now, I am leaning more towards HP when I buy my tuner. Any reason why/why not?

if you get the package w/ the datalogger you don't have to lug around a laptop all the time instead you get a neat lil black box that support external sensors when trying to get readings while tuning.

there i'm spent and tired.

[xonelith]

Good points spy.. .forgot to mention the black box:)

[Sprucegagt]

Actually, that is debateable (the noob comment).

True, the knowledge on the DHP forums may have more useful information regarding the 3400 (this I'm trying to change:)), however I believe (unless many changes have been made), the interface for HPT is much more user friendly, and you won't need external programs (like excel) to do your tuning.

I've started creating some how-to's on my website (using HPT). I hope they may be helpful. Once I get them all done, I'll be asking the experts here (Spruce, Aarongtr, spyhunter and tejohnson) to provide me some feedback. So far, I only have 3 setup:)

Keep in mind, DHP is much cheaper. Money is a deciding factor for many.

It's up to you. Use what you think you like better. You can download the full owner's manual and help guide from the HPT site, and I'm sure someone with DHP here, can provide you with some nice info on DHP.

Also, I'm not sure I would say that DHP has terrible technical support. I haven't heard anything like that before.

There is no debating it. If you had access to both forums you would know this.

I thought you said you were done with this forum and would never post again?

[xonelith]

I do think the knowledge base for V6 tuning, is growing on HPT forums. Sometimes it requires some prompting though:)

[O1GAGT]

Another thing to add:
DHP allows you to tune almost any 3800, 3100 and 3400 engine ranging from 97-05 vehicle, for the same flat fee.

They recently sent me a .bin file so I could tune my GF's 97 Lumina and I believe that Charles at DHP is working to add 3.5L support here in the not so distant future.