Errr...whats wrong with my celica? :/

[GrandAmGT1996]

Okay, so today I left to head over to my brothers house and my car just started making some loud ass noises. I dont know what causing it. It appears there is a small amount of fresh oil coming out of the motor. It sounds like it is coming from the left side of the motor, where the alternator and belts are. There is a pretty significant power loss (not that the motor is powerfull anyway lol) but especially when you get into the higher RPM range, (4500+) it basically just stops producing any power from there on out. It made the same noise the other night, so I pulled over and popped the hood and then it just stopped making the noise. So I figured that there was a chunk of snow/ice inside getting knocked around since we just had a pretty bad snow/ice storm. It is the 7afe motor. (1.8L) All help is appreciated!

Here is the oil coming out.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/DSC001742.jpg

video clip of the noise (http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/?action=view&current=MOV00175-1.flv)

[mr_eh]

sounds like your transmission is ****ed, especially if it doesnt make power over a certain rpm range.... maybe when its changing into gear, is it a manual(guessing its not)

[GrandAmGT1996]

No its a 5 speed, the tranny seems to be fine though?

[mr_eh]

i cant think of what else would cause that ungodly noise other then something bouncing around in the trans, when mine went it would shift fine until it finally seized.... dunno what else it would be

[notsoaveragej0e]

I don't suppose this was caused by that drifting video you made, was it? lol

[GrandAmGT1996]

i cant think of what else would cause that ungodly noise other then something bouncing around in the trans, when mine went it would shift fine until it finally seized.... dunno what else it would be

Well the guys over on 6gc.net are thinking its the timing. The noise is coming from the top, not the bottom. If that makes sense

I don't suppose this was caused by that drifting video you made, was it? lol

lol No, the ebrake just took a beating that day. I wasnt really revving it out or anything, actually nothing really over 4,000 RPMs

[drumking1721]

I know whats wrong with it....its a celica :)

[GrandAmGT1996]

lol Actually, celicas or toyotas in general are pretty well known for lasting for a long time.

[drumking1721]

i know,im just giving you crap...haha and its one of the few cars actually made in the us lol

[GrandAmGT1996]

haha its cool, i just want the damn thing fixed, being as its my only car. Still trying to sell the broken GA

[drumking1721]

Ifyour timing was off you wouldnt really have the oil coming out. Sounds like something is bouncing around....

[GrandAmGT1996]

Yeah, thats kind of what I'm afraid of. I'm debating if I want to tear it apart and take a look, or just let the garage.

[drumking1721]

Well if you know what your doing do it yourself and see,save some money that way. Just diagnose your self,look around the area where the oil is coming out. I HIGHLY doubt its timing..when you have sometime just take it apart and look,cant hurt unless you forget where everything goes lol

[5-lO]

Well the oil thing could be coincidental. Realize that you heard the noise so now your inspecting the car with a keener eye than you may have before, and are just now noticing the leak.

Is there any way you could "describe" the noise? Also what are all the symptons of the car, any stalling out, dead spots in the power band, etc?

[drumking1721]

Well the oil thing could be coincidental. Realize that you heard the noise so now your inspecting the car with a keener eye than you may have before, and are just now noticing the leak.

Is there any way you could "describe" the noise? Also what are all the symptons of the car, any stalling out, dead spots in the power band, etc?


He's got a video of the sound under his pic up top

[GrandAmGT1996]

Well I have an update. My father came home (pretty mechanically inclined) and wanted to see how it drove so we took it out, was doing the same thing and then all the sudden everything just stopped. It shut off and now when you try and start it, all it does is the starter spins. (Brand new starter in it, so that has nothing to do with it) My dads buddy that is hear said he had a truck do something very similar and the mechanic told him that it jumped that much that it wouldnt even do anything which could be my case. I dont know..any thoughts?

Edit: Jon, at abour 4800 RPMS and up it was just a completley big dead spot. Accelerating to them was slower then the usual slowness lol. It kind of jumped a little whenever you would let off the gas, making a smooth shift practically impossible too.

[drumking1721]

gasket

[5-lO]

Unfortunetly the video isnt really any help as its low quality, I cant seperate whats engine noise from what is THE noise.

It does sound pretty loud though, the engine over all. I dont think it would be timing, as if that were the case a) would it really be louder? b) if its an interference engine, things would have been focked a long time ago.

I would look towards something more serious like a rod journal, bad ring. Id have to hear it in person to get a better idea.

[5-lO]

Well it depends on if its an non-interfering valve train, or if it IS. If it is, youd be focked by now.

I would say it could be rod bearings/journals, as once they go bad and seize, the engine does not turn over. They can get so hot and basically weld them selves to the mains.

That is pure speculation however, and I am not a mechanic. I know a bit, but Im just going off of things I have heard and seen.

[drumking1721]

^ yea he's right.....i was thinking a rod earlier too....Your best bet is just to take it apart,its really hard to judge on here...

[5-lO]

Time to save some dough, and pick up the 3SGTE ;)

[GrandAmGT1996]

Well here is the question, now that it is in the garage you can smell what smells like a burnt belt. I'm pretty it has a timing belt and that is what we think might have been the noise inside. It started to shred, which while it was spinning it was in there just smacking around on **** and then adventually just ripped off. Is this a possibility?

Edit: Yeah the 3SGTE seems to be a swap that a lot of guys would like to do over on 6gc.net

[5-lO]

Well here is the question, now that it is in the garage you can smell what smells like a burnt belt. I'm pretty it has a timing belt and that is what we think might have been the noise inside. It started to shred, which while it was spinning it was in there just smacking around on **** and then adventually just ripped off. Is this a possibility?

Edit: Yeah the 3SGTE seems to be a swap that a lot of guys would like to do over on 6gc.net


Very possible. Pull the valve cover, the top half of the timing cover should be part of the valve cover. You will know right then and there.

[GrandAmGT1996]

About how long would it take to pull off the valve cover, and would I need to replace any gaskets doing so? I've never really torn a motor apart before

[drumking1721]

valve cover is nothing....gaskets on a celica idk. I mean its something you can do in a day

[GrandAmGT1996]

Wow, valve cover is easy...less then 5 minute job lol. Ok, so I think we have it narrowed down to the timing belt tensior. Which has bearings in it (correct?) and the bearings went bad in there, which was giving off the clunking/grinding noise. Now it locked up isnt putting and tension on the belt is loose. There are tiny little silver shavings in there too...I dont know if you can see them in the pictures or not. So I *think* that is my problem. The motor isnt locked up, we made sure of that. So does my theory sound correct?

Pictures
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/DSC001862.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/DSC001812.jpg

[drumking1721]

well if theres tiny metal shavings,then thats most likely it....dont qoute me though

[GrandAmGT1996]

Yeah, it just seems logical to me. Because the bearings would have been the cause of the noise, and the belt would have been the smell.

[drumking1721]

yea,if the bearing siezed up then it would make the belt go ****ty,so yea

[GrandAmGT1996]

Well hopefully this is my problem, I'm skipping school Tuesday and my dad doesnt have to go into work until 4 so we should be able to get the parts and fix it then.

[drumking1721]

You could get it done tomorrow,shouldnt be too hard

[GrandAmGT1996]

Yeah were going to at least tear it down tomorrow, it seems like its going to be kind of a PITA and time consuming though because the motor mount is right there and everything. Basically, a lot of stuff is in the way.

Another question, would this cause the motor to not even turn over?

[drumking1721]

possibly idk

[5-lO]

As in by hand? Theres probably too much load with the trans to turn it by hand anyhow... but do you mean upon starting?

If the pretensioner is loose, and the belt is loose... well, How loose is the belt? Just plyable or falling off the cams? From the looks of it, its still on the cams. The tensioner could have loosened and allowed the belt to skip enough teeth that the intake/compression sequence are not in time/tune with the spark.

I understand how an engine works, but I cant put that into the words I want. So In a word, yes... that could keep the car from turning over. Depends on how many teeth the belt jumped.

[GrandAmGT1996]

Its loose enough that I could pull it off by hand if i wanted to.

[5-lO]

Under load I could imagine that being too loose, and as you said if it skipped enough teeth, it may just be way out of tune. Your probably going to have to turn the cams and set the timing back to how it was.

Also, to make sure you didnt mess anything up, see if you can get a breaker bar or something attatched to the crank, and put the car in neutral. Make sure that it turns over and nothing sticks/clicks so that you dont bend a valve or something ****ty like that .

[drumking1721]

the more i think about it...it prob. is what you said last night,and the more i look at the pic it makes sense

[GrandAmGT1996]

Yeah I called up autozone and its going to be $60 for the belt tensioner and $15 for the belt. Pretty many guys on 6gc.net are also saying that it is the belt tensioner. My question is, when I put the new parts on...will the motor start or will the timing still be off?

[drumking1721]

should start....Unless when you were still driving it you totally ruined the motor haha

[GrandAmGT1996]

Alright, I'm pretty sure the motor is fine.

[5-lO]

Yeah I called up autozone and its going to be $60 for the belt tensioner and $15 for the belt. Pretty many guys on 6gc.net are also saying that it is the belt tensioner. My question is, when I put the new parts on...will the motor start or will the timing still be off?

I would recommend assuming the timing is off. There are markings on the cams and various components to know where everything should be.

IF the timing is off now, replacing the parts will not fix the timing issue. But, do we know if the timing is off? My guess is, if the motor isnt even firing up, then it cant be in a proper timing sequence.

Id look into that...

[GrandAmGT1996]

Well the thing is the motor isnt even trying to turn over...its just the starter spinning. I have a compression tester now, I borrowed it from my work so I guess that will tell us if anything is wrong internally also.

[GrandAmGT1996]

Well the compression tester didnt work, I need my car back ASAP, so it just got taken away on the rollback heading for the garage. :(

[5-lO]

Details ?

[GrandAmGT1996]

I talked with the garage yesterday, they said its the timing so they are going to go ahead and fix that...but there is a chance that it may have bent a valve but they wont know until they fire it up. Hopefully not, because I'm already looking at a $375 garage bill.:nono:

[GrandAmGT1996]

So it was the belt tensioner and the timing was off. No bent valves, thankfully. But I got it back from the shop today (suprised that the garage works on Saturdays!) but anyway, with the towing bill included it came out to $407.55 which sucks...but I have my car back. :)

Picture of the tensioner...
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/DSC00200-1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/updike36/DSC00199-1.jpg

As you can see, the bearings are toasted.