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99gav6
02-25-2007, 12:14 AM
Hello, im looking at soon getting the 3500 ported manifold set from 60degreev6 store, along with a drspeed cai, dhp pcm, and 62mm tb,and running 2.5" pipe cat back into a magnaflow muffler (existing), i was wondering if theres anything special i should be aware of when going about this, also if there could be any conflicts etc... I wish i was more knowledgeable about cars but unfortunatly im not so i come to you guys for advice. Thanks for your time and comments.

This will be for a 99ga se 3.4.

Ajaxus
02-25-2007, 01:07 AM
personally as far as the pcm goes i would look into a more custom tune, you might try contacting mark from mp racing, site sponsor, who lives in Antioch, IL about that and getting it tuned once the parts are all on.

if you still want the DHP, be sure to tell them what mods you have on the car when you order so they can design the tune specifically for your setup.

silvergtjrad
02-25-2007, 09:30 AM
i would look into a more custom tune, you might try contacting mark from mp racing

Id definitely reccomend a tune from Mark @ MP racing. It's cheaper than the DHP IIRC and he can change pretty much whatever you want because hes there in person the entire time. He tuned my car back a few months ago and Ive been more than happy with the results.

timberwoof
02-25-2007, 10:43 AM
Damn, I wish there were somebody around here which could tune my car. Or atleast somebody who is use to working on GAs.

AaronGTR
02-25-2007, 12:27 PM
Hello, im looking at soon getting the 3500 ported manifold set from 60degreev6 store, along with a drspeed cai, dhp pcm, and 62mm tb,and running 2.5" pipe cat back into a magnaflow muffler (existing), i was wondering if theres anything special i should be aware of when going about this, also if there could be any conflicts etc... I wish i was more knowledgeable about cars but unfortunatly im not so i come to you guys for advice. Thanks for your time and comments.

This will be for a 99ga se 3.4.



3500 manifold set... do you mean just the upper or both the upper and lower intake? You can use the 3500 upper on the 3400 lower, but in order to use the 3500 lower you also have to use the 3500 cylinder heads. Conversely you can use the 3400 upper on the 3500 lower. Basically the uppers from either engine with fit either lower, but the lower mani must be match with heads from the same engine. Make sure you get the right parts.


DHP pcm should work fine with all those, but you will always get better results from a custom tune. If it's just the 3500 upper you're getting I'd say the setup will still be close to a 3400 so go with the generic pcm. If you get the whole 3500 top end it flows better so you might benefit from a VE tune so I'd get a custom tune. Also I don't believe DHP does custom shipped pcms with changes for specs. You just get the generic pcm or get the tuner and do it yourself.

zhd1000
02-25-2007, 12:32 PM
don't you need the 65mm tb + adapter if using the 3500 UIM also?

Ajaxus
02-25-2007, 12:55 PM
Also I don't believe DHP does custom shipped pcms with changes for specs. You just get the generic pcm or get the tuner and do it yourself.


IIRC if you order directly from dhp you can provide a list of mods done and they can make small tweaks to the generic tune. I'd have to recheck their website to verify.

O1GAGT
02-25-2007, 02:55 PM
If you are going with the 3500 Plenum (UIM), go with the 65mm TB.

As ArronGTR mentioned the 3500 LIM can only be used with the 3500 heads.... I highly recommend swapping to the complete 3500 top end (Heads,LIM, Plenum) if possible. If you do the 3500 top end swap, you will need a VE tune, the flow and velocity characteristics on the 3500 top end are a drastic improvement over the 3400.

If you want to stick with the 3400 heads, then I suggest a ported 3400 LIM and 3500 plenum with 65mm TB. Also have you considered headers?

AaronGTR
02-25-2007, 07:59 PM
IIRC if you order directly from dhp you can provide a list of mods done and they can make small tweaks to the generic tune. I'd have to recheck their website to verify.

Here's the page on their site that refers to products and services. http://65.109.52.43/products.htm

It says custom tuning available, but I think that's only either with the powrtuner, or going to see them directly for a custom tune (which they have done before). It doesn't say anything about calling in specs for custom tunes. Honestly, they've done so much less testing on 3100/3400's compared to the 3800 that I don't think they could accurately make a tune based on different mods. They'd be more able to do that with 3800's but I still don't think they do that because of liability. Even if they've tested a huge number of 3800's with similar mods, every car is slightly different and will react differently to the same tune, so they'd have to make it on the "safe" side like their generic pcm and the tune wouldn't really be optimized for that car. In which case you might as well buy the generic pcm or just get the tuner.

99gav6
02-25-2007, 11:26 PM
thanks guys,i was originally thinking of the upper and lower 3500, i guess by the sound of things ill go with just the 3500uim and the 65mm tb with 3400 ported lower, theres a place close to me that can do dyno tunes but i dont know the rate but i dont imagine it would be cheap, ive looked at headers and (from what i remember) the price is a little high (im also paying for college), for the 3400 lower is the "3100/3400 Large Port Lower Intake" from 60degreev6 the part im looking for? and the tb at 60...v6 isnt in stock any other ideas as to where i can get one? actually i think i could talk myself into headers to....well see

99gav6
02-25-2007, 11:28 PM
can by chance anyone give a link to where i can find some headers...thanks for all the help guys :)

silvergtjrad
02-26-2007, 05:01 AM
www.ssheaders.com
I just finished installing mine on friday. Theyre kind of expensive, but once you put them on the difference in power/sound makes you not feel so bad about spending all of that money!

timberwoof
02-26-2007, 05:03 AM
do they make equal length headers, or are there not anybody out there that does that. probably have to get them specially made huh?

Sprucegagt
02-26-2007, 07:15 AM
do they make equal length headers, or are there not anybody out there that does that. probably have to get them specially made huh?

You answered your own question.

When I asked DHP for a custom PCM for my mods it was recommended to me to get a Powrtuner. I have been very happy with this recommendation.

ihatemygrandamg
02-26-2007, 08:10 AM
If you get the 3500 plenum go with the 65mm, since the opening on the 3500 is 65mm. I went with a pcm from milzy but that was before mp racing, which I prolly woulda went with cause of the price.

AaronGTR
02-26-2007, 11:50 AM
I'd get headers before the UIM/TB. You'll get more HP from it. If you do get a TB, it's worth waiting until the 60v6 store gets more in, it's a beautiful piece. The headers aren't expensive either, they are pretty reasonable for the industry standard. They are cheaper than the TOG headers were. No one make equal length headers though. The engine layout does not lend itself to that type of design.

Any shop by you with a dyno will not be able to help you tune your car unless they have the proper tuner. Most do not, and even if they do I wouldn't let them unless they have experience tuning your type of car. Most they will be able to do is dyno test your car for hp gains.

ihatemygrandamg
02-26-2007, 12:30 PM
The tce tb's are beautiful pieces. I had a 65mm and a ported 3400 plenum with the tb side matched to the tb. It was a good combo. I belive milzy is making 65mm tb's soon also but dont know anything more about them.

I wish I coulda got headers. A little too expensive for me at the time and I cant save money for long cause I always end up buying other parts haha.

lastyear4gt
02-26-2007, 04:13 PM
Conversely you can use the 3400 upper on the 3500 lower. Basically the uppers from either engine with fit either lower, but the lower mani must be match with heads from the same engine. Make sure you get the right parts.

Thats perfect. You just answered a question I was thinking about. Is the complete 3500 a direct swap to the 3400? Or is it even worth taking the bottom end too?

99gav6
02-26-2007, 05:54 PM
ok, i looked at the mpracing site and saw the cai which is roughly $50 less then a dr speed one, does the quality compare, i looked for info on the mp version and didnt come up with anything, i might be able to get a deal on headers that would be exciting

lvemy3100
02-26-2007, 06:24 PM
DS= uses standard worm gear clamps
MPR= uses stainless steel "liner" clamps

DS= undersized K&N standard filter
MPR= S&B (http://www.sbfilters.com/) Powerstack Inverted Cone Filter

DS= plain silicone couplers
MPR= 3ply polyester reinforced silicone couplers (made by www.Hightempsilicone.com (http://www.hightempsilicone.com/))

Both intakes use 3 pieces of mandrel bent aluminum tubing

taking all of the above in to account I would say our quality is better but I will let others chime in on this

gectek
02-26-2007, 06:33 PM
Thats perfect. You just answered a question I was thinking about. Is the complete 3500 a direct swap to the 3400? Or is it even worth taking the bottom end too?


almost direct swap, a few harnesses have to be lengthened IIRC and maybe a bung tapped, but thats about it. and the way i see it, if you get the entire engine youll be starting with 200 horse and a better building place, esp with the oil squirter...just add 2 more and there ya go. but the CR is somewhat higher in the 3500 non vvt engines(LX9) not the new ones, and the bottom end is supposed to be better, with more new engineering than the 3400. just my opinion

99gav6
02-26-2007, 06:42 PM
the mp cai sounds good to me, hope taxes come in on time to get the sale price, this stuff is addicting and expensive but so worth it

99gav6
02-26-2007, 06:54 PM
ok i just got some info on the headers, looks like i cant get them for a better deal and ill stick to the 3500 uim and ported 3400 lim with the mp cai and dhp pcm, i know this a vague and "n00b" question but what kind of boost could i possably expect from this, from a basically stock se 3.4 with magnaflow muffler


edit: forgot about the tb, i would be getting the 65mm

ihatemygrandamg
02-26-2007, 07:54 PM
I say with those mods you might see around .5 off your 1/4 times.

gectek
02-26-2007, 08:34 PM
id say realistically maybe like .3 at most

99gav6
02-26-2007, 09:45 PM
if i added headers to the above mods also what kind of gain am i looking at, sorry for the numerous amount of questions, i always like to research before i buy and make sure i know what my options are, thanks a bunch

gectek
02-26-2007, 09:51 PM
well u cant look at it like that, its not like 10 hp here and 4 here, it compounds yes, but not like u think...maybe it will change HP some, but average/peak/in the power band, thats really up to alot of other variables. what u typically see from the ss headers is like 10 to 15 maybe, but it will support the other mods also, like any intake and anything else to help the exhaust. i put them on and didnt get to go with them, yah that sucked...but ill get to soon, i have a 15.6 from the best run with crap conditions and other problems, but ill get some with just headers soon, then more

Sprucegagt
02-26-2007, 10:21 PM
almost direct swap, a few harnesses have to be lengthened IIRC and maybe a bung tapped, but thats about it. and the way i see it, if you get the entire engine youll be starting with 200 horse and a better building place, esp with the oil squirter...just add 2 more and there ya go. but the CR is somewhat higher in the 3500 non vvt engines(LX9) not the new ones, and the bottom end is supposed to be better, with more new engineering than the 3400. just my opinion

I hate it when people post info they freshly pulled out of their a$$.

Read the link below. It lists all the differences between the 3500 vs. 3400 and yes its way more than a few harnesses and a bung tap to do a swap.

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=30724&highlight=3500+differences(56K take a nap)

AaronGTR
02-26-2007, 10:27 PM
almost direct swap, a few harnesses have to be lengthened IIRC and maybe a bung tapped, but thats about it. and the way i see it, if you get the entire engine youll be starting with 200 horse and a better building place, esp with the oil squirter...just add 2 more and there ya go. but the CR is somewhat higher in the 3500 non vvt engines(LX9) not the new ones, and the bottom end is supposed to be better, with more new engineering than the 3400. just my opinion


um, no. It's not a hard swap, but it's a little more involved than that, and to my knowledge no one has actually done it yet although there are a few in the works.

You also have to get the timing wheel adapter from 60v6 since the internal crank timing sensor is different on the 3500. You need the 7x wheel to work with the 3400 pcm and ignition. You also have to swap over the front cover and accessories from your 3400. 3500 exhaust manifolds are better, but won't mate to the 3400 exhaust so you either need to make a custom downpipe or just go to headers. And of course you still need the TB and adapter since the 3500 electric TB won't work. There are probably a few other small things.

There are certainly advantages to starting with a 3500. Stronger crank, higher compression, more displacement, better designed intake manifolds and heads, slightly better cam and valve springs, and what ever other little technological and manufacturing improvements they've made to make it a more powerful and more durable engine.

just a note: the oil squirters aren't that important. Since they only added them to the ends, it probably has more to do with lubrication than cooling. Oil squirters do very little for cooling anyway. They will affect the thermal and mechanical efficiency of the engine though, and OEM's spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars testing these things with expensive equipment we can't spell the names of. I certainly wouldn't start messing with that balance and potentially messing up the oil pressure by trying to add two squirters to the middle cylinders. ;)

O1GAGT
02-26-2007, 10:53 PM
Aaron, the way I read that was he was first responding to the 3500 top end swap, as "almost direct swap, a few harnesses have to be lengthened IIRC and maybe a bung tapped, but thats about it"

Then he transitioned into if he was going to swap the 3500 top end he would rather just swap in a complete 3500 and start with 200 HP.

gectek
02-26-2007, 10:58 PM
yah forgot about teh crank trigger, but i have been following that thread also, and really it doesnt seem that much more involved that. It cant be any worse than the 4t6x swap, look at who is going and doing that. despite that thread, there isnt much difference between the two in the way the operate, they are based on teh same design, not even VVT, and also when GM uses the oil squirters on the I4 engines they call them piston cooling jets, well so substitute that phrase for oil squirters and there you go. if they needed oiling like that for the cylinders they could have made the rods just like off a ford, with the jet in the rod. the place between the two rods provides enough oiling for the entire cyl, from I4 to V12, so why would they add that, and then if you "change the oil pressure by adding 2 more squirters", you arent going to change it that much, second you can compensate, and third i am not just pulling things out of my butt on this one. i have looked at that thread an numerous others. if they compensated on the 3900 for the rest of the pistons having these squirters, then there isnt any reason they cannot be added to the 3500...issues like these are tackled all the time by race teams and they use components as rudimentary as epoxy and screen to keep oil back and redirect it, just because no one has done it yet(that we know of) doesnt mean that it cant be done or isnt being done.

and aaron you already started messing with that balance you speak of when you did your first modification...

like i said just my opinion, i didnt add some stuff that i should have, shame on me

gectek
02-26-2007, 10:59 PM
Aaron, the way I read that was he was first responding to the 3500 top end swap, as "almost direct swap, a few harnesses have to be lengthened IIRC and maybe a bung tapped, but thats about it"

Then he transitioned into if he was going to swap the 3500 top end he would rather just swap in a complete 3500 and start with 200 HP.

yah i didnt mean the entire 3500 swap, i meant just the top end

thank you 01

O1GAGT
02-26-2007, 11:03 PM
um, no. It's not a hard swap, but it's a little more involved than that, and to my knowledge no one has actually done it yet although there are a few in the works.

You also have to get the timing wheel adapter from 60v6 since the internal crank timing sensor is different on the 3500. You need the 7x wheel to work with the 3400 pcm and ignition. You also have to swap over the front cover and accessories from your 3400. 3500 exhaust manifolds are better, but won't mate to the 3400 exhaust so you either need to make a custom downpipe or just go to headers. And of course you still need the TB and adapter since the 3500 electric TB won't work. There are probably a few other small things.

There are some 3500 platforms that had the same design exhaust manifolds as the Grand Am (cross over the tranny) I believe the uplander had this setup.

There are certainly advantages to starting with a 3500. Stronger crank, higher compression, more displacement, better designed intake manifolds and heads, slightly better cam and valve springs, and what ever other little technological and manufacturing improvements they've made to make it a more powerful and more durable engine.

What changed with the cam that made it slightly better? GMParts direct shows a 03+ 3400 grand am and the 04 3500 malibu sharing the same cam GM Part #12567117

ihatemygrandamg
02-26-2007, 11:10 PM
id say realistically maybe like .3 at most


I dropped .3 with my mms pcm and ported uim, and that was a bad day since I had a full tank of gas and was freezing my ass off so I wasnt exactly having the best launches.

gectek
02-26-2007, 11:12 PM
yes, but it changes area to area day to day, so i dont think that .5 would be a good number just from personal exp. i used to run 16.0 stock, and now with the PCM, and a few other things, and extreme weight reduction, i ran a 15.6, but it was on a crappy day and all the other excuses you have heard, thats why it may in reality be .5 but can turn out to be .3

AaronGTR
02-26-2007, 11:17 PM
There are some 3500 platforms that had the same design exhaust manifolds as the Grand Am (cross over the tranny) I believe the uplander had this setup.



What changed with the cam that made it slightly better? GMParts direct shows a 03+ 3400 grand am and the 04 3500 malibu sharing the same cam GM Part #12567117


It doesn't matter that the mani's are both cross over design. They are still different parts for different chassis and engines. The ends won't come out in the same place so they won't just match up to the DP. Also I could've sworn I saw that they had different cam specs for the 3500 than the 3400, but maybe I'm wrong. I almost can't see how they wouldn't change the cam slightly considering the different displacement and better heads and manifolds. It would make sense that the cam could be optimized for a new engine.

Anyway, I wouldn't trust numbers from gmpartsdirect. I've found wrong numbers there several times, or simply couldn't find numbers that existed. The catalog they use isn't theirs and thats why they have that little disclaimer you have to click to use it. I'd go by info on 60v6 or part numbers attained directly at a dealership.

ihatemygrandamg
02-26-2007, 11:20 PM
Yea I know, weather matters and all kinds of other crap. Plus different cars react different to mods. My car always ran like crap due to the lim problem, and a bunch of other things but I was surprised what those mods did. My pcm was my only mod that I realy noticed from seat of the pants feel. Im just mostly saying that not just from my experience, most people with a tuned pcm alone usualy see atleast .2-.3 off their times;whether it be from mp,mms,dhp or whatever. Then Im saying he could prolly see another .2-.3 off with a set of ported manifolds and a cai.

Sprucegagt
02-26-2007, 11:41 PM
What changed with the cam that made it slightly better? GMParts direct shows a 03+ 3400 grand am and the 04 3500 malibu sharing the same cam GM Part #12567117

It true Aaron. Both engines use the same cam.

AaronGTR
02-26-2007, 11:44 PM
Wow, thats kinda weird they changed so much other stuff and not the cam. I guess they coulda tested it though and found they couldn't make a better one between making power and meeting emissions. Weirder things have happened.

O1GAGT
02-27-2007, 12:28 AM
It doesn't matter that the mani's are both cross over design. They are still different parts for different chassis and engines. The ends won't come out in the same place so they won't just match up to the DP.

Interesting comment considering the 3400 exhaust manifolds share the same part # across several platforms..... GM vans, W body, N body, ect.

It appears in around 04 GM switched the 3400 to the larger port "3500 exhaust manifolds", thus we have exhaust manifolds available that will match the ports on the 3500 heads and work on the Grand Am. :applause:

http://60degreev6.com/showpost.php?p=312531&postcount=33

I can confirm by the pics of the rear exhaust manifold shown in the link above, that the part # 12578348 is the correct part # for the large port rear exhaust manifold. The front exhaust manifold is part #12568405.

AaronGTR
02-27-2007, 08:11 AM
Interesting comment considering the 3400 exhaust manifolds share the same part # across several platforms..... GM vans, W body, N body, ect.

It appears in around 04 GM switched the 3400 to the larger port "3500 exhaust manifolds", thus we have exhaust manifolds available that will match the ports on the 3500 heads and work on the Grand Am. :applause:

http://60degreev6.com/showpost.php?p=312531&postcount=33

I can confirm by the pics of the rear exhaust manifold shown in the link above, that the part # 12578348 is the correct part # for the large port rear exhaust manifold. The front exhaust manifold is part #12568405.


Never seen those pics. I didn't know they ever made a log style manifold for the 3500. The manifolds I was referring to are the 3800 and 3900 style with semi-individual runners. I don't have pics of the 3400 manifolds around, but that rear manifold still looks a little different. One other important thing to remember is that engine with those manifolds came out of an '05 impala which is a different platform. They stopped making the GA in '05, and they most probably had different manifolds than 3400's used in other platforms. They wouldn't change manifolds when they have the packaging all set on a car in it's last year of production. They still might not match up to the stock downpipe on the GA. You can't say for certain unless someone tries it.

Gizm0815
02-27-2007, 10:05 AM
ok, i looked at the mpracing site and saw the cai which is roughly $50 less then a dr speed one, does the quality compare, i looked for info on the mp version and didnt come up with anything

mpracing definetly has better customer support have seen many times when people cant get a hold of dr. speed and they placed orders that took months to arrive. mark normally gets back to people quite quickly. i personally dont have his intake yet but ive seen some of his products and work and its top notch.

O1GAGT
02-27-2007, 11:34 AM
Never seen those pics. I didn't know they ever made a log style manifold for the 3500. The manifolds I was referring to are the 3800 and 3900 style with semi-individual runners. I don't have pics of the 3400 manifolds around, but that rear manifold still looks a little different. One other important thing to remember is that engine with those manifolds came out of an '05 impala which is a different platform. They stopped making the GA in '05, and they most probably had different manifolds than 3400's used in other platforms. They wouldn't change manifolds when they have the packaging all set on a car in it's last year of production. They still might not match up to the stock downpipe on the GA. You can't say for certain unless someone tries it.


Aaron, a lot of assumptions there.

I just got off the phone with my local Pontiac dealer to confirm that the 2004 + Grand Am uses the "large port 3500 style exhaust manifolds (same part # listed in my previous post).

The rear manifold doesn't look any different than the previous model rear manifolds aside from the larger ports.

Again theses updated (04 +) X-over style exhaust manifolds were not platform specific, as the same part # is given for GM vans, N-body, W-body, Aztek and Rendezvous.

The some of the 3500 platforms such as the G6 and malibu used the newer style exhaust manifolds shown in the link below.....but those won't easily work on the Grand Am.
http://60degreev6.com/showpost.php?p=291030&postcount=2

I believe this confirms without argument, that the 04+ X-over stlye exhaust manifolds are the large port 3500 style manifolds, which will match the exhaust ports on the 3500. This is a great option for those that want to swap to the 3500 top end, but don't want to fork out the extra cash for headers.

+2

Tdunk
02-27-2007, 01:59 PM
The MP racing CAI is less restrictive than the Dr. Speed and sounds more agressive. I know a couple of grand am's with the Dr. Speed and was commented on. They asked who i purchased my intake from. Throttle response after stock was amazing i could feel the increase as well as below 2k rpms the increase in MPG. I am very satisfied with this product and would recommend it to anyone.

Also mark is the person to definately talk to when it comes to tuning. His generic tuning corrects problems with the stock code such as trans slippage and increases your line pressure for firmer shift points. Also itll remove the govenor which many people hate haha no more 106mph max. So definately talk to him about his products i believe right now there is a sale going on.

lastyear4gt
02-27-2007, 04:50 PM
It seems to me that seeing as my 04 GA has the larger port manifolds and the same cam as the 3500 that the more logical step would be to just do the top end swap, that for the most part is where the added 20 hp comes from anyways. The only problem being there are no headers that will bolt to the 3500 heads yet is there?

I think when the time comes Ill tear it down, possibly bore out the cylinders, use custom oversized forged pistons/rods, custom cam, worked 3500 heads, 3500 LIM, 3400 port matched UIM, matched 65mm throttlebody and headers as well as other supporting mods.

But thats a couple years yet. Have to get married and move into a bigger house first so I have a double car garage to do all this in!

O1GAGT
02-27-2007, 05:07 PM
The 3400 headers mate up to the ports on the 3500 heads, they are a little on the small side, but still an improvement over the stock exhaust manifold.

In my oppinion the 3400 headers will still provide better power over the large port X-over style exhaust manifolds, hopefully someone will make a set of headers specifically for the 3500.

gectek
02-27-2007, 06:18 PM
[QUOTE=lastyear4gt;863506]It seems to me that seeing as my 04 GA has the larger port manifolds and the same cam as the 3500 that the more logical step would be to just do the top end swap, that for the most part is where the added 20 hp comes from anyways. [QUOTE]

well the extra power comes from alot of other places, but mainly, sure prob from work on the breathing in side of the engine...but if you are going to go that far, why not just go all the way with the 3500 swap instead of 3400/3500?

AaronGTR
02-27-2007, 06:24 PM
well the extra power comes from alot of other places, but mainly, sure prob from work on the breathing in side of the engine...but if you are going to go that far, why not just go all the way with the 3500 swap instead of 3400/3500?


Because it still is in fact more work and more expensive. It all depends on what you really want and what you can afford. That and like I said no one has actually done it yet. I'm waiting for someone to finish a swap and see how good that external crank sensor really works and that there aren't any issues.

gectek
02-27-2007, 06:34 PM
me too, i like the 3500 def, but the top end swap seems a bit iffy for me, due to alot of factors, but it definately is better in terms of engineering and flow...but i think in order to take advantage of the entire power package, the 3500 is the way to go, i am keeping my eyes peeled for the swap and right now it looks like superdave is close enough, but i think thats on OBD I car, so then OBD II shouldnt be much worse, and other changes also, but im watching that thread closely, as well as a few others

99gav6
02-27-2007, 09:39 PM
ok i got an update, it seems i can get the headers for a much reduced price and it looks like ill get the cai, pcm, uim, while later on getting the tb and lim, also what vehicles use this 3500 motor, theres many junk yards in the area and that might save me a $ or two

99gav6
02-27-2007, 10:04 PM
should a ga be close to the 14sec 1/4 with those mods?

gectek
02-27-2007, 11:18 PM
an 04 05 malibu has the 3500, and mine is looking to be a 14 sec GA, hopefully deep into the 14s, but that is relative to alot of variables, so i can say yes or no....id say it is possible, but there is so much more to it, youll just have to see for yourself

lastyear4gt
02-28-2007, 08:43 AM
[QUOTE=lastyear4gt;863506]It seems to me that seeing as my 04 GA has the larger port manifolds and the same cam as the 3500 that the more logical step would be to just do the top end swap, that for the most part is where the added 20 hp comes from anyways. [QUOTE]

well the extra power comes from alot of other places, but mainly, sure prob from work on the breathing in side of the engine...but if you are going to go that far, why not just go all the way with the 3500 swap instead of 3400/3500?

It is alot of work and I would say expense for just 20HP. If you are building a 3400 anyways, that 20HP advantage stock will be made up with the 3500 top end.

gectek
02-28-2007, 10:47 AM
well with ur setup though you will make more power with the 3500 than the 3400/3500 IMO, and its not that much more...considering that its a newer engine and the JY has them for about 450-650 around here, and the new crank(if u get the steel) is supposed to be stronger...its not forged i guess is what they found, but the oportunities are better with the 3500...but thats just my opinion, do what u wish with that and i hope it turns out very good

curtpank
03-04-2007, 12:54 AM
With my 02 GAGT with Dr. Speed CAI, S&S headers, S&S hi-flow cat, Borla cat-back exhaust and DHP PCM I'm running between 14.4 and 14.7 depending on conditions.

99gav6
03-04-2007, 05:46 PM
Thats cool, im looking to have about the same amount of mods with the ported intakes and tb, i should be ordering the headers sometime next week hopefully and i can get this under way :)

99gav6
03-04-2007, 07:02 PM
can someone with a similiar setup chime in on the performance of there ride?? im very curious to see roughly what i can expect

gectek
03-04-2007, 09:31 PM
headers are a very nice addition, i like them alot and didnt even get to drive my car for very long beforei got in an accident. i have the ported manis and the tb also they are going on soon, then ill know about them also

lone_wolf025
03-04-2007, 11:27 PM
1. Get the MP racing CAI (I've got it and I love it)
2. Get a full exhaust system including headers
3. Have fun on the track

99gav6
03-05-2007, 09:46 AM
those are two things that are allready on the list, the mp racing cai and full exhaust will be my first upgrades, ive never actually driven on the track but i hear good things :)

99gav6
03-05-2007, 10:00 AM
the list is (in no particular order) 1.full exhaust (w/headers) 2.mp racing cai 3.dhp pcm 4.180 thermostat 5. ngk plugs and msd 8mm wires 6.Ported 3400 lim 7. ported 3500 uim 8.65mm tb, i think thats about it i might be forgetting something though, but anyway i should have this complete in the next few months or so, my goal really is just to be at or faster than a gp gtp

timberwoof
03-05-2007, 01:58 PM
good luck with that

99gav6
03-15-2007, 05:29 PM
well tonight i think im gonna order the s&s headers, will they go on a stock setup just fine or will there need to be any other mods done? im kinda skeptical on the boost in performance which is probably why the order hasnt allready take place, and volume wise will it turn things up a bit? i hope they go good with my magnaflow muffler

Rich
03-15-2007, 05:32 PM
they should be just fine with a stock setup. there should be a decent gain and i think things will be a bit louder. do you just have a muffler or a whole catback exhaust? if its the former, it would be best to get the full system. so your car is breathing better and youll see a better gain.

99gav6
03-15-2007, 05:38 PM
well im doing it piece by piece as i can afford it, i will eventually change the exhaust pipe to 2.5" and delete the resonator along with a high flow cat (although ive read that the stock is pretty high flow as it is)

99gav6
03-19-2007, 08:52 PM
ok i ordered the headers, me and my father are going to be installing these when i get them in. He warned me and said the gaskets on after market headers tend to go bad quick. What are your experiences with the headers and the durability of the gaskets for those who have the s&s headers. Also i ordered them friday does anyone have any idea what the turn around usually is there?

Sprucegagt
03-19-2007, 09:40 PM
I installed my headers with the gaskets that S&S supplied. The car now has about 40K on it since then with no leaks.

gectek
03-19-2007, 11:23 PM
i think those gaskets are cut from a sheet, so they should be better than a die cut gasket as such...i havent had any problems with mine and i even had a twisted off stud and still no exhaust leak.

99gav6
03-25-2007, 04:59 PM
ok im just waiting on the delivery of th headers. does anything need to be welded for the install?

gectek
03-25-2007, 05:14 PM
nope, no welding, just bolts...make sure to have plenty of WD 40 and a good set of gloves to save the knuckles the only thing u may need to weld would be the flex to the rest of the downpipe, unless you ordered the downpipe from them. it will not fit the stock downpipe at all

99gav6
03-29-2007, 05:47 PM
:) just ordered the cai from mpracing.. i think i screwed up though and accidentally ordered it twice :(

99gav6
04-05-2007, 03:51 PM
ugh, im to impatient when ordering things, ive called s&s twice and both times they told me the headers were in the machine shop and should ship out next week, ordered the 19th called early the following week then called back this past monday, dont they know im anxious... :) oh well...

AaronGTR
04-05-2007, 05:07 PM
That's our aftermarket... get used to it. I've waiting almost a year for some things. We are a small market for a not so popular car to modify and companies that make parts for us only make them in small batches, so there is always going to be a wait.

99gav6
04-10-2007, 03:55 PM
so what next guys? fiinish out the exhaust (move to 2.5" pipe, delete resonator, and hf cat) or mp racing tune? i cant make up my mind so i though id post here

AaronGTR
04-10-2007, 04:16 PM
So you got the MPR intake and S&S headers ordered so far? What do you have for the rest of the exhaust now? If it's stock, I'd go ahead and finish it off with a high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust the rest of the way back, other wise you won't be seeing the full gains from the headers. Then I'd get the tuned pcm next for sure.

99gav6
04-10-2007, 04:26 PM
ya they are ordered, the intake should be here tomorrow according to ups and the headers well they are "in the machine shop" last thing i heard, i got a magnaflow muffler (14802), well if i get the pcm should i have him tune it for any future mods? and if i have him tune it for a 65mm tb and a 3500 manifold and instead get the 62tb with stock manifold would that cause an issue? and another question, when installing headers on the stock down pipe what for of welding will i have to do, like cut and move the cat or just cut some extra pipe off or add pipe, etc...thanks