Anyone here with tips to adjust a ZZP ICCU??

[NorKoastal]

I just snagged a ZZP ICCU from a Grand Amer here and wanted some suggestions on the following...

Mods = ZZP ICCU, DHP 1.0 PCM W/O the timing adjustment flash.. CAI, IAT 1/2 way down my CAI with the extension wire.. FFP UD pulley, and a SLP Magna combo... As of now the idle range runs real rich -8 LTFT to -25 at the stoplights.. cruising closer to -2.5 to -3.. On inclines or OD on the freeway I end up lean when accellerating from .05 to 1.5... This is all at 180 engine temp.

What would ba a safe adjustmet to lean out my idle, beef the cruising flow a smidge and richen out my highway cruising/incline flow?? Since I have the DHP m y full throttle power is fine, but I would prefer to not have to downshift as much to 3 to keep up on gradual inclines because the car is leaning out. Should i try something and order the flashed DHP.. How much of a difference would I see?? I hope this makes sense as i havent tuned anything in my life... Thanks..

[AaronGTR]

The ICCU has several different throttle ranges. Best thing is to read the directions thoroughly and adjust it a step at a time. You'll have to adjust the % to negative side (less than 100%) to lean out the idle and cruise. Try 95% first, driving it for a while so the LTFT's adjust, and see where it is. Keep doing that until you are as close to zero as it will stay. It won't be perfect. At higher throttle do the opposite (over 100%) to richen it and follow the same method.

[NorKoastal]

The ICCU has several different throttle ranges. Best thing is to read the directions thoroughly and adjust it a step at a time. You'll have to adjust the % to negative side (less than 100%) to lean out the idle and cruise. Try 95% first, driving it for a while so the LTFT's adjust, and see where it is. Keep doing that until you are as close to zero as it will stay. It won't be perfect. At higher throttle do the opposite (over 100%) to richen it and follow the same method.

Thanks for the info Aaron.. Would you think that adding the spark adjustment to the PCM would add anything on the performance side with this setup?? Im trying to weigh out if i should do this or save the money for a new downpipe and high flow cat... My first intention was to quit wasting so much gas then look to performance gains..

[AaronGTR]

Now that's something I'm not really sure on. I had my ICCU just for a little while and was planning on having DHP reprogram my pcm so I could use the timing feature, but the powrtuner came out before they got around to it so I decided to just get that instead since it can adjust the timing much more accurately plus has many other features I needed.

According to my ICCU directions, some units have a plug and some just have a blade that you insert into your IAT connector. Not sure if the GP units work the same way or not, but if you do that and don't have it connected to the IAT anymore you'll only be getting timing adjustments from the ICCU with no reference from the IAT to adjust for air temp. I decided with my boosted setup I didn't want to do this. For an NA car that's already been programmed with a safe timing curve and not seeing any knock, it should be ok. It would be very useful to have the timing function if you were planning on using nitrous or alcohol injection because you could use the voltage input to switch timing curves when the systems are activated and retard or advance the timing as needed. Depends on your plans.

[jackal2000]

i think moving the IAT sensor back close to its stock location will lean out the LTFTs. thats a silly mod IMO.

[AaronGTR]

Uhhhh....:wtf . Moving the IAT sensor won't have any affect at all on LTFT's. The pcm uses that to adjust timing, not fuel.

[jackal2000]

IAT has an effect on injector pulse width which effects LTFTs.

[NorKoastal]

Interesting thought... I was using PFYC's advice in getting a more accurate reading of the air temp coming into the motor instead of the heat soaked reading the stock location would read... Hopefully the ICCU can correct that pretty easily if its the cause of the rich condition..

Edited.. Got the unit installed.. Instant improvement in LTFT's in idle.. Still need to work on cruise and FT, but so far so good..

Thanks

[jackal2000]

unless your intake is wrapped with insulation the air gets warmer as it gets to the motor.

[NorKoastal]

The only protection for the CAI is the TB shield I bought from PFYC. Not sure if that plate does much, but my intake temp reading is always fairly close to outside so im good with that.. How would a hotter reading near the motor help with fuel tables and performance??

[jackal2000]

my understanding is cooler air is denser and by moving the IAT sensor you are essentially tricking the PCM into thinking the engine is getting cooler air than it really is so it increases the IPW resulting in a rich condition. i dont see any other explanation unless something new has been discovered and my theory is flawed, aaron?

[SpyhunteR]

all this IAT talk, I would want it to be as close to the air temp going into the motor as possible. I personally don't care to fool with trickery anymore. You get better results when you keep things legit. Happier tunes the whole bit.

[jackal2000]

ya tricks are for kids

[AaronGTR]

IAT has an effect on injector pulse width which effects LTFTs.

No. It doesn't. The MAF and MAP sensor are the main modifiers for that. The pcm uses them to determine air flow and engine load. The MAF sensor has an internal temperature sensor that adjusts for air temp and therefore air density and adjusts the signal it sends to the pcm. If you switch from a stock air box to a CAI, that is what can make the fueling richer. That's why DHP's basic pcm is tuned for cars with CAI's, exhaust, and T-stat.

[AaronGTR]

One other thing... with CAI's the thin aluminum gains and loses heat very rapidly. It doesn't really matter that much where you put your IAT sensor in the CAI, once the air gets moving over idle speed it cools off quickly and will be reading pretty close to the same temp. The intake manifold holds a lot more heat than the CAI because it is much thicker and is bolted to the top of the engine so there is more heat transfer.

[NorKoastal]

Update.. The light blue/black PCM wire worked on providing the RPM reading on a test start of the unit. After fabricating a mount and placing the unit back in the car the RPM's wont show now errrrr.. Im going to re tap into the light blue black wire or fish a new seperate wire to the sensor in the engine bay... Im hoping that there arent more than one of those light blue/black wires cause I tapped the first one I saw. Too many wires down there for my blood... The wire fed from the front to the PCM, pretty convenient (only if its the right wire :-)

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, those taps don't always work the greatest. I've found the ones that work best have the end with the blade insert instead of the ones with both wires in the tap. Anyway, you should still double check you have the right wire. Don't just grab the first one you see. You need to take the connectors off the pcm and trace the wires, because there are four light blue/black wires going to pcm. Three of them go to the C2 connector. Only one goes to the C1 connector (pin position #9) and that is the 24x CKP signal.

[NorKoastal]

Yeah, those taps don't always work the greatest. I've found the ones that work best have the end with the blade insert instead of the ones with both wires in the tap. Anyway, you should still double check you have the right wire. Don't just grab the first one you see. You need to take the connectors off the pcm and trace the wires, because there are four light blue/black wires going to pcm. Three of them go to the C2 connector. Only one goes to the C1 connector (pin position #9) and that is the 24x CKP signal.

Well based on my test run it was dead on the RPM. I was relieved until I fabricated a nice grey vinyl housing for the gauge. Reconnected then no RPM signal... I will double check the connection and retest. I know if it doesnt read after that I'll just fish a seperate 24X wire..... :applause: Aaron you've been a great resource with this. I hope to meet you in AGX land soon..

[AaronGTR]

lol np man. I do what I can. Hopefully the problem is just a loose wire tap. I know how annoying it is tracking down electrical problems.

[NorKoastal]

lol np man. I do what I can. Hopefully the problem is just a loose wire tap. I know how annoying it is tracking down electrical problems.

Update.. well i must be lucky cause i doduble checked the wiring and not it shows up accurate RPM readings. While driving past cars and other objects the seems to be ticking alot louder than before the install.. The unit is trimming fuel fine considering it heated up over here pretty quick (82 today). Ill recheck the plugs ( i only have the maf plugs in, the iat is tied up and not wired in to the unit either..) Is this ticking sound normal or should I be worried something isnt wired.. im going to double check the plug wires, but im gettin maf, o2 and rpm readings..

Edit: After diggen though the manual that was provided i noticed that the unit loaded up to 24x on the hidden menu screen. Sounds right.. The GP manual had 18x for v6 and 24x for v8.. The ticks sound lin sequence from idle and increase as gas is applied.. Thoughts??? Power seems close to before since ive only been trimmin fuel thus far..

[AleroB888]

One other thing... with CAI's the thin aluminum gains and loses heat very rapidly. It doesn't really matter that much where you put your IAT sensor in the CAI, once the air gets moving over idle speed it cools off quickly and will be reading pretty close to the same temp. The intake manifold holds a lot more heat than the CAI because it is much thicker and is bolted to the top of the engine so there is more heat transfer.

I know what you're saying here, but technically, thicker aluminum will transfer heat at a faster rate than thinner aluminum. The IM is closer to the source of heat, and can absorb more heat. But what you said is correct.

[AaronGTR]

Exactly. It will transfer more heat more quickly because since there is more metal it will absorb more heat than CAI piping and therefore give off more heat. Since the CAI piping is further from the heat source and is thinner it can't absorb as much heat and will transfer a minimal amount of heat to the intake air.



NorKoastal, the ICCU shouldn't make any noise at all. Mine is totally quiet. Are you sure that's where the noise is coming from?

[NorKoastal]

Exactly. It will transfer more heat more quickly because since there is more metal it will absorb more heat than CAI piping and therefore give off more heat. Since the CAI piping is further from the heat source and is thinner it can't absorb as much heat and will transfer a minimal amount of heat to the intake air.



NorKoastal, the ICCU shouldn't make any noise at all. Mine is totally quiet. Are you sure that's where the noise is coming from?


The noise is coming from the engine bay.. I would say the ticks are on each cycle of the cylinders.Not constantly going but Tick..... Tick.......Tick....... Tick.. Maybe every 1/2 a second at idle faster as I accellerate.. As I apply gas I hear the noise inside the car faintly.. If I roll next to a wall or parked cars the noise amplifies. This is definitly new since I installed the unit... The unit has different settings based on the 24X, 18X sensor.. Just to make sure my unit is set on 24X. I have not installed the IAT plug since my PCM is not flashed.. Should I plug it in anyways to the car and the ICCU??

The only other things I can think of are rewiring my 24X signal completely.. The wire I tapped while providing an accurate RPM signal could possible still be the wrong wire ??? IDK.. I also need to look at the plugs on the MAF to ensure they are color cooresponding, and chat with the previous owner a bit..


Thanks.

[AaronGTR]

The noise is coming from the engine bay.. I would say the ticks are on each cycle of the cylinders.Not constantly going but Tick..... Tick.......Tick....... Tick.. Maybe every 1/2 a second at idle faster as I accellerate.. As I apply gas I hear the noise inside the car faintly.. If I roll next to a wall or parked cars the noise amplifies. This is definitely new since I installed the unit... The unit has different settings based on the 24X, 18X sensor.. Just to make sure my unit is set on 24X. I have not installed the IAT plug since my PCM is not flashed.. Should I plug it in anyways to the car and the ICCU??

The only other things I can think of are rewiring my 24X signal completely.. The wire I tapped while providing an accurate RPM signal could possible still be the wrong wire ??? IDK.. I also need to look at the plugs on the MAF to ensure they are color cooresponding, and chat with the previous owner a bit..


Thanks.

If you do not have the timing option flashed in your pcm from DHP, then no you should not connect the wire to the IAT. Leave it as is. Also if you weren't connected to the right wire you wouldn't be receiving any rpm signal at all. That should be fine. Might want to make sure the splicer didn't sever the wire, and maybe solder it instead, but it should be ok. If you ordered an ICCU for a grand am, then you shouldn't have to worry about anything with 18x either. That is only on the grand prix unit, they are different units. There should be only one way to plug in the maf connectors too. You can double check the wire positions on the plugs, but again they should be right. If they weren't you wouldn't be getting a maf signal and your SES light would be on.

It sounds like everything is as it should be. I think this noise is completely unrelated to the ICCU and it's just coincidence that it started at the same time. Hate to say it, but the noise you're describing sounds just like rocker noise or what you get with a bad lifter. Try this... with the engine running take a large screw driver and place the tip on the upper intake manifold then put the handle against your ear. See if the ticking is louder then. Put the tip against each intake runner too and see if it's louder by one than the others. That might help tell which one it is, if that's the problem.

[NorKoastal]

Good suggestion.. I might unplug the unit and retest just for kicks... If this is an unrelated issue I might as well buy a ported UIM since that will be off anyways..

Right on.. I will list updates tomorrow after I try to diagnose..

[NorKoastal]

Aaron you called it.. rocker or lifter.. Sounds like one gone to town... What is the recommended fix for such a
problem?? Are there any parts you would recommend upgrading while everything is torn down??

Would i need to take off both my uim and lim to fix this?? Ive unplugged the ICCU until this is fixed..

Thanks..

[AaronGTR]

Nope. There aren't really any upgrades available for lifters and the only rockers available aren't really necessary or worth it and aren't an easy install. Just try and diagnose which one it is if you can and get it replaced with a new stock part. If it is a lifter (more probable) the LIM will have to come off too. If it's a rocker, I'm pretty sure you can get the stock ones out with just the valve cover off. ICCU can stay plugged in if you want. It won't make any difference to the valve train.

[NorKoastal]

Sounds like a plan.. i think its time i quit dodging the haynes manual and take a stab at this if it just involves the valve covers being removed and a little retorquing... Ive had such luck with this car so far its scary lol....