Whats the advantage of a custom tune vs generic

[lone_wolf025]

Call this an inquiry into the "nature" of tuning.

My understanding is that with limited minor mods such as a CAI and basic catback exhaust (if such minor things can even be called mods) there are basic (and well known?) changes in the tune (fuel map?) to accommodate them. In other words they're fairly generic.

The thought that crossed my mind was what (if any) benefit is there to a "custom" tune suited to the individual vehicle over the "generic" modifications for such limited "mods" as stated above?

I do realize that the more minor the mod the less you can get out of it. Obviously I wouldn't expect to see a 30hp gain from a CAI and custom tune (common sense). I know that the more mods done the greater the need and benefit of the custom tune, but I'm more curious as to at what point is it generally considered more beneficial for a custom tune over the well accepted "generic" standards? Basically is there a discernible point at which the margin of error in power (on a say a dyno) is no longer an issue?

[Ajaxus]

i think the most generic answer that can be given to this is "depends on the car" yes we all own the same car, more or less, but different cars have different wear and tear on them so they would react differently to a generic tune as opposed to a custom tune which would get you the most out of the vehicle, regardless of it's condition.

that's my best guess..i'll let the guys that actually do tuning really take this one to town.

[lvemy3100]

Call this an inquiry into the "nature" of tuning.

My understanding is that with limited minor mods such as a CAI and basic catback exhaust (if such minor things can even be called mods) there are basic (and well known?) changes in the tune (fuel map?) to accommodate them. In other words they're fairly generic.

The thought that crossed my mind was what (if any) benefit is there to a "custom" tune suited to the individual vehicle over the "generic" modifications for such limited "mods" as stated above?

I do realize that the more minor the mod the less you can get out of it. Obviously I wouldn't expect to see a 30hp gain from a CAI and custom tune (common sense). I know that the more mods done the greater the need and benefit of the custom tune, but I'm more curious as to at what point is it generally considered more beneficial for a custom tune over the well accepted "generic" standards? Basically is there a discernible point at which the margin of error in power (on a say a dyno) is no longer an issue?

custom tuning will "dial-in" your car and really does NOT require a set amount of mods to be done before seeing a benifit... this is mainly due to the fact that you can have 2 brand new *insert vehicle here* and even though they have little to no wear on them and both are made from the same parts chances are that they will not be running exactly the same fuel trims...

anytime you change the air flow of your motor you are throwing your VE off and making it that much harder for the computer to compensate.. the more mods done without tuning the harder it will be to keep things running properly and consistently.. especially at the track...

tuning on a dyno should only be left for the last step of custom tuning.. and even then is not "required" since 99.99% of tuning should be done by driving/scanning/logging and then using said data logs to make changes to the PCM... I actually prefer to dial cars in for WOT at the track where they will get more accurate scans as opposed to scanning and logging on a dyno..

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, you can have two grand ams of exactly the same year and model and even the same miles and they will not be exactly the same. Because of manufacturing tolerances etc, no two cars are exactly the same. We've all heard of factory freaks that make more power than other stock cars. It's because by blind luck they just happened to be assembled with a perfect combination of parts.

Generic tunes are designed with a slight safety margin built in to accommodate those inconsistencies between cars so they won't damage the engine and will work well for a wide range of cars. Because of that a custom tune will almost always make more power. The difference between them does tend to depend on modification level so the general rule is the more mods you have the more important a custom tune is.

[SpyhunteR]

. I actually prefer to dial cars in for WOT at the track where they will get more accurate scans as opposed to scanning and logging on a dyno..

On an untuned car sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Over here we don't take any cars to the track until it has had some tuning done on the dyno.

[lvemy3100]

On an untuned car sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Over here we don't take any cars to the track until it has had some tuning done on the dyno.

ummm.. ok.

you dont need a dyno for WOT tuning... dont know what gave you that crazy idea... dyno's are great for is measuring how much power is being made and being able to make multiple WOT runs without the vehicle actually going anywhere...

I dont really have the time to explain tuning methodologies (sp?) and dont really have to.. my work speaks for itself so if you dont trust what I do just ask my customers how happy they are with their cars I mean this is what I do for a living.. if I didnt know what I was doing I would be homeless

[SpyhunteR]

ummm.. ok.

you dont need a dyno for WOT tuning... dont know what gave you that crazy idea... dyno's are great for is measuring how much power is being made and being able to make multiple WOT runs without the vehicle actually going anywhere...

I dont really have the time to explain tuning methodologies (sp?) and dont really have to.. my work speaks for itself so if you dont trust what I do just ask my customers how happy they are with their cars I mean this is what I do for a living.. if I didnt know what I was doing I would be homeless

so a dyno is ONLY good for measuring power and doing it over and over again? So it's no good for tuning? Amazing, tell me more.

[lvemy3100]

I never said they are ONLY good for that... I said that one isnt REQUIRED and they arent the only way to tune...

I think maybe you need to explain this whole idea that you seem to have about dyno tuning being required even if you plan to finish tuning your car at the track after tuning idle and part throttle...

in fact dont cause I dont really care... I will just say that you have a fast car and I wish you the best of luck with all of YOUR tuning

PEACE

[Sprucegagt]

On an untuned car sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Over here we don't take any cars to the track until it has had some tuning done on the dyno.

Hardly. Does your guy only tune standalone units or stock PCM's as well? Do you guys even bother with idle/part throttle conditions? If not then the OBDII PCM is really gonna **** you with inconsistent results.

Anyway, I'm sure Mark sets the car up rich and dial's in from there for track tuning.

[Vegeta]

Spy, are you telling me you put an untuned vehicle on a dyno and do WOT pulls to tune it? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. How about we stop assuming pre-requisites before we do the 'dialing in' and discuss the topic.

Custom > generic unless you can't afford to buy the setup, don't have time to learn to tune, or can't find someone you can trust to do your setup properly. Generic means crap to me. Jet is generic. The OBD1 chips I sell are somewhat generic in that they were tuned for a stock vehicle, but this was done on a dyno. .2-.3 quicker in the 1/4. Generic means no real tuning, just advance spark and maybe adjust fuel (obd1 reference, most didn't touch fuel). They claimed 16+ hp though...when they got 0 on a dyno.

With basic mods as stated, a tuned for stock setup will still work very well. I wouldn't recommend going to custom tuned unless you are done modding. You probably won't gain much, unless whoever tuned yours for stock didn't do all that they could have, or perhaps OBD2 is much more picky than OBD1 when it comes to performance and mods.

[lone_wolf025]

I think just for kicks I'll have Mark run a scan at the track. I trust his judgment enough for him to tell me if its worth it or not. I will say I am very happy with the current tune on the vehicle as it produces enough power to occasionally chirp a tire on the upshift from 1st to 2nd.

[laxjax13]

Haha i cant even chirp a tire from a stand still with my rims/tires.

[GT_turbo]

I have a question. I just got a turbo for my Grand Am and am in the process of putting everything together. I got a dummy 3400 engine to build my manifolds off of until I "swap" everything onto my car. This guy who does custom programming of stock PCM's says he can write a program to put on my PCM to make the turbo run just as perfect as ever. The company is TPI in Arizona, and he said he has written a program for a 3400 supercharged Grand Am. I just was wondering all your thought on this. I told him I was going to run 8 lbs of boost and He said he can make is happen, and make is run good.

[coupe]

Your gonna get a generic tune basicly

[lvemy3100]

I have a question. I just got a turbo for my Grand Am and am in the process of putting everything together. I got a dummy 3400 engine to build my manifolds off of until I "swap" everything onto my car. This guy who does custom programming of stock PCM's says he can write a program to put on my PCM to make the turbo run just as perfect as ever. The company is TPI in Arizona, and he said he has written a program for a 3400 supercharged Grand Am. I just was wondering all your thought on this. I told him I was going to run 8 lbs of boost and He said he can make is happen, and make is run good.

umm you already have a thread going about this.... there was no need to post in this one.. however all the info has been laid out for you.. a little reading and you should understand whats up...


if you really need someone to tune your setup I am in Antioch IL (much closer than AZ) and I am a sponsor of this site...

the choice is up to you but I am sure there will be quite a few others who will agree with what I have said and will probably suggest coming to me for tuning or doing it yourself....

[xonelith]

I agree 100% with Ivemy. A mail order tune is gonna be pretty generic, but probably with a few things modified to work with boost. Best bet, particularly in a boost situation, get a custom tune from Ivemy or tune it yourself with either DHP or HPT.

t/j
Mark, got the CAI in the mail today... looks really nice... thanks!!!
end t/j

[nascarnate326]

Haha i cant even chirp a tire from a stand still with my rims/tires.

Is that because you need a tune, or just lack of power, or rims/tire combo isnt the best?

[lvemy3100]

Is that because you need a tune, or just lack of power, or rims/tire combo isnt the best?

He has a tune (that I need to update the next time I see him) but from his comment I think that his prob is tires and rims....

[GT_turbo]

Ivemy,
So you say you can do this tuning for me. I saw your website and it says nothing about tuning with a turbocharger. Is this a plug in thing that I could adjust later if I wanted to, or do you program my PCM.

[2003SCT]

Yeah, if you are mildly modded and esp. N/A, a generic box tune should definitely help you benefit from your bolt ons. As was said before, there shouldn't be THAT much more of a gain or better drivability(unless you are tuning on a newer Ford that relies heavily on its MAF and you are using an unorthodox intake with odd bends or something)

One of the big benefits of tuning on a dyno is easy access to wide band air fuel ratio. The majority of cars don't have an onboard way to tune SO this can really be nice. Those tuning boosted cars without are just guessing. In addition, this can be performed in any weather conditions and legally. Shops who tune tons of cars a week can't risk driving out of their business park 6 times a day and risk imprisonment each time. With a dyno, you are able to see actual gains too as opposed to just seat of the pants.

I think tho, for most GA guys with mild mods(and esp. those out in the middle of nowhere), generic tunes are a cost effective mod that will keep you running fast and safe most of the time.


CHRIS

[lvemy3100]

Lvemy,
So you say you can do this tuning for me. I saw your website and it says nothing about tuning with a turbocharger. Is this a plug in thing that I could adjust later if I wanted to, or do you program my PCM.

I do not currently have a "services" list on my site and what you were looking at was a reprogrammed PCM that is customized to work the best it can with most of the mods that NON boosted cars tend to use....


for your application you are looking for in-person PCM tuning... and would require working on the car for no less than 2 days and no more than 2 weeks so the cost can be quite a bit but I am willing to work a deal with members of the sites I sponsor so I would say that even if I had to have your car for 2 weeks you would not be looking at a very high $$ amount when compared to the normal 85-150 per hr that you see at most places...

[GT_turbo]

Well I looked at the DHP website and I understand better what I need to do. Bigger injectors and a DHP tuner and I should be well under way. I'll be posting pics of the turbo manifolds by this weekend I hope.

Thanks!

[lone_wolf025]

Hope you know how to tune. Its not something you can wake up and walk into...

[harvester45]

A custom tune is always better than a generic tune... as long as it is done by somebody who knows what he is doing. You can get way more aggressive with timing, tx settings and fueling if you go custom. Plus you can tweak other settings like fans, DTCs, etc. to your specific needs. Go custom if you can afford it... preferably just buy a tuner and learn how to do it.

Hope you know how to tune. Its not something you can wake up and walk into...

lol That's true. I found that out the hard way, but it's a fast learning curve if you focus on it and really do a lot of studying before you start making crazy changes. So read, study, then make crazy changes. haha! I'd reccomend tuning the car NA while you're making your kit, then you'll be way better prepared to tune it once you have the turbo installed. Wish I would've done it that way, but it still worked out ok.