GMtuners??? Any Good???

[GT_turbo]

I found this website http://dtcc.cz28.com/eprom/index.htm, they are "GMtuners" and I was wondering if anyone has ever heard anything about them. I am in the process of putting a turbo in my GA and these guys seem to know a thing or two. I would be able to make the 8 hour drive to the dealership and get it tuned in person. Anyone have any thoughts... good or bad??? Please let me know.

Thanks

[SpyhunteR]

never heard of them at all.

afraid to do it yourself? is there nobody near where you live that can tune w/ DHP or HPT?

[Rich]

mark (mpracing) should be close to you. id try to get together with him. he definitely has a better rep than whoever that is.

[lvemy3100]

I'm in antioch il... ~4hrs away....

[Rich]

heh, well youre still probably the closest well known tuner.

[GT_turbo]

I have a bad rep about mark the way it is. This guy seems to know his stuff. I'll probably be giving him a try.

[lvemy3100]

I have a bad rep about mark the way it is. .....

????

[Vegeta]

I hope sinister is better at OBD2 than he is at OBD1.

[Gizm0815]

youve been on this forum for almost 3 weeks mabey you should do some more research about mark and mpracing they have some of the best customer service out there for the tuning market. and hes definetly much more well know and has a reputation of being on top of things and producing quality products and service.

thats all i got.

[cardude007617]

I have a bad rep about mark the way it is. This guy seems to know his stuff. I'll probably be giving him a try.

u mean good rep..............he's amazing. i had a few questions about my cai, and he knew right away how to answer them in plain engish right away. A+ dude to go thru.
thats also why i pu MP Racing before cai in my signature

[TurboAlero]

Hmm Gary could help you with tunning. He tuned my car, so I thing he is pretty good and pretty fast in responding and sending the tunes and He has a good and fair price.

He uses HPT , I don't know if he has the DHP what they are almost the same

http://www.hollandms.com/

[GT_turbo]

I guess Mark came across to me as stuck up. In other forms I have read, he acts as if his word is god's. Thats the impression I got. I haven't made a final decision yet. Also seems like Mark would charge an arm and a leg for a tune. Thats just my opinion.

[coupe]

I guess Mark came across to me as stuck up. In other forms I have read, he acts as if his word is god's. Thats the impression I got. I haven't made a final decision yet. Also seems like Mark would charge an arm and a leg for a tune. Thats just my opinion.


You dont interpret people very well.

He is straight and to the point, thats a good thing not bad.

[Metallman56]

Mark hooked me up with zero problems. and the tune was a lot cheaper then i thought it would be. And when i lost some of the settings for my tune, he stood behind his work, and said he would re-tune for no charge. i dont think any of us that have used MP Racing have anything bad to say about him, or his company.

[GT_turbo]

[QUOTE=Metallman56;908681]Mark hooked me up with zero problems. and the tune was a lot cheaper then i thought it would be. And when i lost some of the settings for my tune, he stood behind his work, and said he would re-tune for no charge. QUOTE]


You said he hooked you up with zero problems and you lost your tune?!? I don't want to drive 4 hours to get a tune and lose it. You said it was cheap, how much did you spend?

[TurboAlero]

Gary at http://www.hollandms.com/ tunes via internet for 50 USd a hour. Or he can do a inhouse tuning but I think he is lives far from U

[Vegeta]

Sounds like you need to do some more research on how the ECM works (cause you don't lose a tune because the programmer screwed it up). If you think any company is perfect, you are wrong. The way a company deals with problems is how you define them, just as much as how their products perform when it all does go as it should.

In person tuning > internet/long distance tuning.

[Sprucegagt]

Sounds like you need to do some more research on how the ECM works (cause you don't lose a tune because the programmer screwed it up). If you think any company is perfect, you are wrong. The way a company deals with problems is how you define them, just as much as how their products perform when it all does go as it should.

In person tuning > internet/long distance tuning.

/\ All of it is true.

[Metallman56]

You said he hooked you up with zero problems and you lost your tune?!? I don't want to drive 4 hours to get a tune and lose it. You said it was cheap, how much did you spend?

i lost it cause of the dumbass that tinted my windows. not Marks fault, long story. anywho, i dont remember the exact amount he charged but i do remember it was a lot less then he normally charged.

[timka86]

I got a tune from Mark way back over a year and a half a ago, no problems, I've even been to him for other stuff and he wouldn't take the money when I tried to pay him for his time.

It was definitely worth the drive up to A-town. It cost less then getting a tuned PCM from one of the other guys, and he can modify it to however you like based on the mods that you have.

[lvemy3100]

I got a tune from Mark way back over a year and a half a ago, no problems, I've even been to him for other stuff and he wouldn't take the money when I tried to pay him for his time.

It was definitely worth the drive up to A-town. It cost less then getting a tuned PCM from one of the other guys, and he can modify it to however you like based on the mods that you have.

while most of what you said is true dialing in a boost setup does cost more than basic PCM modification as it is much more time consuming and requires actually running the vehicle and making multiple changes to the PCM based on scan information...

the end cost will always vary depending on how much time it takes to complete the tuning

[GT_turbo]

Mark, have you tuned a Turbocharged 3400? And if you have, is there anyway I can talk to him to see how it turned out?

Thanks.

[Sinister Perf]

I hope sinister is better at OBD2 than he is at OBD1.

Mind explaining what you mean by this?

[Vegeta]

PMed you.

[AaronGTR]

[QUOTE=Metallman56;908681]Mark hooked me up with zero problems. and the tune was a lot cheaper then i thought it would be. And when i lost some of the settings for my tune, he stood behind his work, and said he would re-tune for no charge. QUOTE]


You said he hooked you up with zero problems and you lost your tune?!? I don't want to drive 4 hours to get a tune and lose it. You said it was cheap, how much did you spend?



You obviously have absolutely no idea how long real tuning takes to do and how much it costs. These days tuning is the single most important thing that is needed to make a car run right and extract the full potential but no one wants to spend any time or money on it. Does that make sense?


And the reason metalman lost his tune didn't have anything to do with Mark. It was the fault of another shop he went to. Not really even Marks responsibility to fix it and he did anyway. I call that good service. Anyway, anyone who knows anything knows that you can't do good tuning thru mail or over the internet. It needs to be done in person, on the street and the dyno, or do it yourself.

[GT_turbo]

I'm having a guy from Sinister Performance tune my car. Its an 8 hr drive but I think he knows what he is doing. I am getting a basic mail tune to safely drive the car down there and then he is going to tune it.

[Vegeta]

Rofl

[Sinister Perf]

[QUOTE=GT_turbo;908682]


Anyway, anyone who knows anything knows that you can't do good tuning thru mail or over the internet. It needs to be done in person, on the street and the dyno, or do it yourself.

That isn't entirely true. It is possible to do "good" tuning thru the mail if your tuner is experienced and knows what he or she is doing. I tune 100's of mail-order chips and PCMs a year, and a very small percentage of those ever have any issues. But the reason for my success is due to the fact that I require my customers to supply me with scan data so I know exactly what their cars are doing. That is no different than if I were there tuning the car in-person; other than the fact it would be a lot quicker because we wouldn't need to wait on shipping.

Now I will admit that it is very difficult to make an effective tune thru the mail for a vehicle that has a lot of modifications; especially in cases like what this very thread is about. In addition, it is almost impossible for ANYONE to do a tune on any car, in-person or not, if that car has mechanical or electrical issues. Believe it or not these problems are more common than you would think.

One of the main reasons why I want this guy (Nick) with the 3400 turbo to bring the car to me for in-person tuning is because he is trying to put boost on a stock engine. The stock internal parts used in these engines aren't designed for boost nor will they allow for a wide margin of error in the tune. Don't misunderstand; even with a perfect tune, it is still possible these stock internals won't survive under boost. I have seen a lot of people try to do something like this only to watch their engine suffer catastrophic failure because the parts simply are not designed to withstand the stress boost puts on them. Sure there are some people who may have done it or may be doing it with success, but not everyone has the same luck. I have already explained this to Nick and also told him I would feel more comfortable if he could dial back the max boost level to 4psi while he is using this initial mail-order tune from me, but he insists on running 7psi. That's his choice and he is aware of my warnings concerning the potential consequences of running so much boost on a stock engine and a base tune.

In addition, I don't appreciate the statement VEGETA made about my OBD-1 tuning abilities earlier in this thread. I have already responded to his PM and asked him to remove that comment. Comments like these are unnecessary and misleading to the community; especially the way it was presented in this case. I don't go around spreading slander about HIS work and I would appreciate it if he would abstain from doing it to me. There is more than enough work to go around here so no one should need to slam someone else's services just to pick up some more business.

-ryan

[Vegeta]

Since you don't want to do this in PM, I will reply here. Mark M in Alabama with the 76 or 77 MGB using a stock 3400 with TCE mounts and timing chain cover, and electric water pump. That is the mail order tune you were doing, though I don't know of any datalogs.

AIR FUEL OPTION FLAG WORD 1
BIT2 1 = CALCULATE 'BPW AT IDLE' AS FUNCTION OF AIRFLOW

Change VE all you want (which you did), its not going to change your fueling. You have to turn this flag off first. You also didn't set the injector constant for the larger injectors and fuel pressure increase that the 3400 has, but instead left it at the 16.6# of the stock 3.1 code. That is no way to start a mail order chip tune.

Your attempt to change the injector constant should not have been made by someone that knows what he or she is doing.

06C4 0260 608 KINJXBC5 0.2375 SEC/GM PRODUCT OF INJECTOR FLOW RATE AND FUEL CALCULATION BASE CONSTANT FOR SINGLE FIRE
INJECTOR FLOW RATE

06C6 0200 512 KDISFS 2.667 GL/HR SINGLE INJECTOR FLOW RATE IN GALLONS/HOUR

Those are what you changed, and those are for the in car computer to show you gas milage and predicted consumption. MGB doesn't have that setup and the computer doesn't use it for firing the injectors.

To be honest, the car had some issues, so you had to be there to figure all that out. however, even with all of them fixed, your chip didn't help and wasn't reprogrammed to do anything useful. I stand by my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel#Privilege_and_malice

[Sinister Perf]

Since you don't want to do this in PM, I will reply here. Mark M in Alabama with the 76 or 77 MGB using a stock 3400 with TCE mounts and timing chain cover, and electric water pump. That is the mail order tune you were doing, though I don't know of any datalogs.

AIR FUEL OPTION FLAG WORD 1
BIT2 1 = CALCULATE 'BPW AT IDLE' AS FUNCTION OF AIRFLOW

Change VE all you want (which you did), its not going to change your fueling. You have to turn this flag off first. You also didn't set the injector constant for the larger injectors and fuel pressure increase that the 3400 has, but instead left it at the 16.6# of the stock 3.1 code. That is no way to start a mail order chip tune.

Your attempt to change the injector constant should not have been made by someone that knows what he or she is doing.

06C4 0260 608 KINJXBC5 0.2375 SEC/GM PRODUCT OF INJECTOR FLOW RATE AND FUEL CALCULATION BASE CONSTANT FOR SINGLE FIRE
INJECTOR FLOW RATE

06C6 0200 512 KDISFS 2.667 GL/HR SINGLE INJECTOR FLOW RATE IN GALLONS/HOUR

Those are what you changed, and those are for the in car computer to show you gas milage and predicted consumption. MGB doesn't have that setup and the computer doesn't use it for firing the injectors.

To be honest, the car had some issues, so you had to be there to figure all that out. however, even with all of them fixed, your chip didn't help and wasn't reprogrammed to do anything useful. I stand by my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel#Privilege_and_malice

Being a jerk isn't going to get you anywhere with me. But since you decided to drag this into the public first (and just to be honest your PM wasn't exactly tactful), then I will respond.

Yes I did have some problems tuning Mark's car. One of the major problems Mark had concerned a high idle issue in which he reported to me that his IAC counts were going to "0". Well, what do you suppose would cause that? Hmm, vacuum leak or incorrectly adjusted throttle stop screw comes to mind here. Mark was also having problems with intermittent trouble codes that kept popping up for seemingly no reason at all (MAP sensor error 34 was one of them he mentioned to me). So was my "bad tuning" the cause of that?

The fact is these two particular problems that MARK reported that he had probably had nothing to do with the tune I made for him. He apparently had issues going on with the car and I was attempting to work with him to get thru these problems. But apparently he was not patient enough to work with me. So that's my fault how exactly? As I explain very clearly on my website, I will work with every customer for as long as it takes to get the tuning right, so long as they work with me.

Oh and for the record I did change the injector constant. Twice. In the first version of the chip I set it to 24lb/hr and in the second version I set it to 27lb/hr in an attempt to correct the fueling issues. Both of these were changed using my tuning software. Perhaps the software I was using at the time wasn't changing the correct injector constant, as you have stated. I verified the results using both TunerCat and TunerPro RT -- both showed the same. But according to you, these are not the correct constants to change. If this is the case, why don't you tell us all which ones are? Or is that "privileged" information? In any event, if the tuning software wasn't allowing me to make the correct intended changes to the programming I was trying to make, then how is that my fault? As I recall, this was the FIRST time any one of my 3400 - 7730 clients had ever had any problems with one of my custom chips (or so I was told) and I was in the midst of trying to figure out what was going wrong and why. But it kinda makes it hard to work thru a problem with someone when the person on the other end doesn't want to work with me. But I bet that never happens to you because you are perfect, right?

In any case, there's no reason for you to be an ass to me on here about this. Like I said before, there is more than enough work to go around. But if you aren't getting enough off of eBay you can always pay for some advertising. There is no reason to bash someone else just to make money. Or is that how it is done these days? Answer me this one question: Did you get Mark's car tuned in perfectly on your first attempt?

[Vegeta]

I don't sell on ebay. I advertise on this site. You do not.

I already told you that you did not change the injector constant, but rather the DIC fuel calculations. For the record, that hasn't changed and your tuning software must be wrong.

Mark didn't bring me the car. He drove it up for killerbv6 to work on it and get it going. I was already in dayton to tune the minus 1 (6 TBs on a 3100 3 wheeler). I used the opportunity to see what was going on. Your assumption that mark got impatient with you has no credibility, just like your claim of slander.

I hope your OBD2 software is more accurate than your OBD1 software.

[GT_turbo]

First off, I have to say that it sounds like MARK pretty bad problems all around, I should have a pretty solid setup and no exhaust leaks, electrical problems, etc... Secondly, I am taking my car down there for an in-person tune, way different than a mail tune. Thirdly, seeing is believing. I will post a video of my car once it is tuned. I trust Ryan will be able to tune it well. I wouldn't drive 8 hours if I didn't believe this. Enough Said.

[Vegeta]

If you wanna drive 8 hours, thats fine. Stop by my house on your way back cause I am only 40 miles west on US 30.

[Vegeta]

im not replying to your edits...and im not your teacher.

[AaronGTR]

That isn't entirely true. It is possible to do "good" tuning thru the mail if your tuner is experienced and knows what he or she is doing. I tune 100's of mail-order chips and PCMs a year, and a very small percentage of those ever have any issues. But the reason for my success is due to the fact that I require my customers to supply me with scan data so I know exactly what their cars are doing. That is no different than if I were there tuning the car in-person; other than the fact it would be a lot quicker because we wouldn't need to wait on shipping.

Thats not entirely true either. It is impossible to do "good" tuning thru the mail. It's only possible to to do sub-par tuning, but you can't get a car dialed in without seeing it in person because it takes a lot of time. Yes, having scan data will help, but that of course means the person has to buy a scanner and know how to use it as well as have a laptop... at which point they can just buy a tuner and do it themselves which makes you totally irrelevant.

One of the main reasons why I want this guy (Nick) with the 3400 turbo to bring the car to me for in-person tuning is because he is trying to put boost on a stock engine. The stock internal parts used in these engines aren't designed for boost nor will they allow for a wide margin of error in the tune. Don't misunderstand; even with a perfect tune, it is still possible these stock internals won't survive under boost. I have seen a lot of people try to do something like this only to watch their engine suffer catastrophic failure because the parts simply are not designed to withstand the stress boost puts on them. Sure there are some people who may have done it or may be doing it with success, but not everyone has the same luck. I have already explained this to Nick and also told him I would feel more comfortable if he could dial back the max boost level to 4psi while he is using this initial mail-order tune from me, but he insists on running 7psi. That's his choice and he is aware of my warnings concerning the potential consequences of running so much boost on a stock engine and a base tune.

While putting boost on a factory NA engine always has it's challenges, your statements here really lead me to believe you don't know what you're talking about. You claim to have tuned lots of 3400's with no problems. How come no one here has heard of your company or claimed to use your tuning on their cars then? Your post just screams a lack of experience or knowledge about this platform because you don't know about the typical effects of boost on this engine. The fact is that there are many many people running 7psi and higher on stock internals with no problems at all. I have been on my engine for 5 years. The stock CR is only 9.5:1 which is not that high and something as small as 7psi will not harm the engine at all as long as it's not detonating.

First off, I have to say that it sounds like MARK pretty bad problems all around, I should have a pretty solid setup and no exhaust leaks, electrical problems, etc... Secondly, I am taking my car down there for an in-person tune, way different than a mail tune. Thirdly, seeing is believing. I will post a video of my car once it is tuned. I trust Ryan will be able to tune it well. I wouldn't drive 8 hours if I didn't believe this. Enough Said.

I've already made my point so it's your choice who you want to trust your car too. Personally I think it's retarded to drive eight hours to someone with no reputation in the community when you could drive 4 hours to someone with a good rep. It's your call though and your car.

[Sinister Perf]

Thats not entirely true either. It is impossible to do "good" tuning thru the mail. It's only possible to to do sub-par tuning, but you can't get a car dialed in without seeing it in person because it takes a lot of time. Yes, having scan data will help, but that of course means the person has to buy a scanner and know how to use it as well as have a laptop... at which point they can just buy a tuner and do it themselves which makes you totally irrelevant.


Well that just shows how close-minded you are. I could give you a "short list" of about 20 people right now who are all using my "mail-order" tunes on highly modified engines -- and are very happy with the results. But why should I waste my time? From the sounds of it you won't believe them anyway.

And about the scanning/tuning comment, that just shows how ignorant you are about tuning. Do you have any idea how easy it is just to look at a scanner and write down data and email that off to someone? Especially when that someone gives you a sheet that explains exactly what data they need and when to get snapshots of it. Not everybody wants to learn how to tune; and not everybody wants to buy all of the necessary equipment they would need to tune their own cars. Scanners/laptops on the other hand, are quite cheap these days.


While putting boost on a factory NA engine always has it's challenges, your statements here really lead me to believe you don't know what you're talking about. You claim to have tuned lots of 3400's with no problems. How come no one here has heard of your company or claimed to use your tuning on their cars then? Your post just screams a lack of experience or knowledge about this platform because you don't know about the typical effects of boost on this engine. The fact is that there are many many people running 7psi and higher on stock internals with no problems at all. I have been on my engine for 5 years. The stock CR is only 9.5:1 which is not that high and something as small as 7psi will not harm the engine at all as long as it's not detonating.

So basically you agree with what I said:
The stock internal parts used in these engines aren't designed for boost nor will they allow for a wide margin of error in the tune.

Contrary to your belief I know more about these engines than you probably do. We studied and worked with engines just like the 3400 in college and we were taught the principles behind engine design, and the effects of turbo and supercharging on internal parts. But I'm glad to hear you have been running boost on your engine with no problems. So I guess that means that absolutely nobody on here has ever blown up a stock 3400 under boost, right?

im not replying to your edits...and im not your teacher.

Good, because you have already wasted enough of my time. I really don't care about your answers anyway because I have already resolved the problem with the software I was using. I am probably wasting my time right now because I am not a paying advertiser to this forum -- and thus apparently I am not permitted to know what I am talking about.

BTW, if Nick still wants me to tune his car; rest assured I will do a damn fine job for him. If he gets cold feet because of some of the BS that has been spewed in this thread, then oh well. I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Vegeta]

not worth the effort really.

[SpyhunteR]

Well that just shows how close-minded you are. I could give you a "short list" of about 20 people right now who are all using my "mail-order" tunes on highly modified engines -- and are very happy with the results. But why should I waste my time? From the sounds of it you won't believe them anyway.




What's a highly modified engine to you?

[AaronGTR]

Well that just shows how close-minded you are. I could give you a "short list" of about 20 people right now who are all using my "mail-order" tunes on highly modified engines -- and are very happy with the results. But why should I waste my time? From the sounds of it you won't believe them anyway.

How is that being close minded? Because everyone who is doing serious performance mods to these cars is on this site and no one here has ever heard from any of these supposed people you have tuned for? Where are they? Bring em out... I'm ready to hear all their glowing testaments. :rolleyes: (make sure they have some kind of documentation and not just BS like you're spouting)

And about the scanning/tuning comment, that just shows how ignorant you are about tuning. Do you have any idea how easy it is just to look at a scanner and write down data and email that off to someone? Especially when that someone gives you a sheet that explains exactly what data they need and when to get snapshots of it. Not everybody wants to learn how to tune; and not everybody wants to buy all of the necessary equipment they would need to tune their own cars. Scanners/laptops on the other hand, are quite cheap these days.

Yeah... I'm reeeeaaaally ignorant about tuning. :rolleyes: Again, you are showing your lack of knowledge, and you have no idea who you are talking too. Just about everyone already has a laptop these days, and people can get their own tuner for just a little more than they'd pay for a decent scanner. Also you can't get enough info from one scan to get a good tune. You need multiple scans under different conditions to really dial in a car. On what I consider a "highly modified" engine it can take months of scanning and adjusting the tune to get it perfect. At that point it becomes more economical to do it yourself because of the amount of time another tuner would have to invest in your car and what they would charge. They are basically only useful for getting you to a good starting point.

So basically you agree with what I said:

Now I know you're crazy. You said the engine won't last under 7psi of boost. I said you're an idiot and don't know jack **** about this engine because people have been boosting them up to 12psi for years with no failures. Again, lack of knowledge and experience on your part.


Contrary to your belief I know more about these engines than you probably do. We studied and worked with engines just like the 3400 in college and we were taught the principles behind engine design, and the effects of turbo and supercharging on internal parts. But I'm glad to hear you have been running boost on your engine with no problems. So I guess that means that absolutely nobody on here has ever blown up a stock 3400 under boost, right?

Whatever pal. Engines just like the 3400 huh? Good for you. They're weren't actually 3400's where they. Book learning is all fine and dandy. I'll take actual experience and knowledge gained by working with a specific engine any day though. Apparently you don't have that. I do.

[harvester45]

First off, I have to say that it sounds like MARK pretty bad problems all around, I should have a pretty solid setup and no exhaust leaks, electrical problems, etc... Secondly, I am taking my car down there for an in-person tune, way different than a mail tune. Thirdly, seeing is believing. I will post a video of my car once it is tuned. I trust Ryan will be able to tune it well. I wouldn't drive 8 hours if I didn't believe this. Enough Said.

Hey man, from somebody who has been there, I'm just tellin ya to tune it yourself. If you've got a laptop, the tuner will probably cost as much as the tune you would get from either Mark or this Sinister guy (who I have never heard of). You will be able to correct any future issues yourself if you buy the tuner, and if you decide to up the boost or change other aspects of your engine later, you can easily adjust for those changes yourself. That's why most everybody here is reccomending tuning it yourself. It might be tough for the first few weeks, but your car will run better and faster if you take the time to learn it and tune it on your own. Just my two cents.

[lvemy3100]

the Mark being referenced in this thread is NOT me...

thanks


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