another rpm whine issue

[cardude007617]

yesterday i hooked up my new 4 channel amp with my system for my speakers. all went well yada yada yada. but when i run the car, i get a whine thru all of my speakers. i know its from the power cuz if i unplug an rca, the corrisponding speaker goes quiet (no whine). here is a picture of my ground; i think its pretty clean isnt it? besides, most of the ring terminal hits the longer half, so none of it hits the paint really
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6242/dsc01093mr7.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01093mr7.jpg)
thanks in advance

[Rosado]

Is that blue cable your power source??? ( From the battery)

If so move that line away from the ground.

Also it looks like your using a self tapping screw which tells me that you may be running 8 guage wire. Try using a 4 guage and using one of the bolts from the rear seats as a ground. The ground connection has to be solid and very clean..

You also said that when u dissconnet the RCA cable, that the noise goes away... Well If I had to bet anything real fast, I would say its your RCA that you are running. What RCA are you running. What brand?

Also to correct you one something,, power does not come from the RCA. Only signal does.

Power comes from that battery. of course your ground and then your remote turn on.

[cardude007617]

ok heres the deal. i have a 4g run for my sub amp that goes thru a 2farad cap. and i have a (new 8g now) for my new 4ch. the deeper blue is 4g, and the lighter clear blue is 8g.

i temporarily have the 8g hooked up to the negative on my capacitor until i figure this out of whatever so it all goes thru the 4g ground which at this point is ok cuz i have the volume at 0 and i hear the noise.

the self tapping screw's head is big enough to hold the ring terminal down to the metal of the car, and its all i got laying around lol.

anything else to answer ur Qs?

[Rosado]

yea, you didnt say what type of rca wires u are running...
Like you said before, you pulled the rca and the noise went away..
That may be a siganl noise, and alot of times that stems from the ground on the radio..

[cardude007617]

im using 2 kinds, 1 kicker set (came with my sub amp kit; now used for my 4ch fronts; cuz they're longer i think) and 2 pairs of knuconceptz. its not from my rcas cuz its the same noise in front(knuconceptz) and back (kicker rca).

so i was messing around with it and i concluded this. my cap is screwing things up, when i have the 4ch amp only grounded im fine, but when i hook the cap up (sub amp after it) it begins. BUT, the whine is much quieter when i use 2 different grounds......

[GrandAmGT1996]

Are the RCAs running next to your power wire?

[cardude007617]

i ran them down seperate sides of the car. but they cross when i connect them to the amp......
so does it make sense that wen i hook the sub amp up with the capacitor that the whine starts?

[Mendoza]

Where are your gains set at on the amplifer?

[cardude007617]

my deck has 4v preouts, and my amps are set at like half ish, if not more if not less. nothing extremely high, or low. reasonable put it that way

[Mendoza]

Ground the outer rca shields on the sub amp to the ground wire on the sub amplifer. That should solve the problem.

[Bryan]

Ground the outer rca shields on the sub amp to the ground wire on the sub amplifer. That should solve the problem.

What size wire should be used for this?

[cardude007617]

Ground the outer rca shields on the sub amp to the ground wire on the sub amplifer. That should solve the problem.

im sorry but what now?

[Mendoza]

What size wire should be used for this?
18 awg is usual what i use. something that you can easily wrap and twist around the rca lip.
im sorry but what now?
The outside lip on the rca jack where you plug it into the amp. Wrap a bare wire around that area so you kind of make a hoop and tightly twist it around the rca lip. Do this to both rca jacks. Then ground the wires. A ez spot would be your ground wire on your amp. If this works tape it up and run the wire underneath the amp so it can't be seen. You can also do this behind the radio.

[cardude007617]

oooo i think iv seen that done before. dont pioneer decks have this issue alot? i hope i can find something that wraps well tho....

can i just ground it to the bolt i have the amp grounded to? it might just be easier

[Bryan]

Sorry to somewhat jack the thread but since it is on topic..I get whining when I plug the RCAs into the head unit buut when I plug them into the line-out converter that was previously installed, I don't get the whine. Should I ground the head unit outer RCA shields with the HU ground?

[cardude007617]

its fine^

wat kind of head unit u got?

[Bryan]

It's a Clarion. I've heard Pioneers have that problem like you said though.

[cardude007617]

do this right:
http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40067&page=1&pp=10&highlight=pioneer

but on both the hu and amp.

would i gain anything on the sub amp?

[Mendoza]

Ya but if your only getting it when you plug just the sub amp in it could be the sub amp feeding back into your deck. Thats why i was saying just do it at the amplifer to see if that fixs your problem. Should only take mins to do this. Just strip about a inch of plastic off the wire and twist then wrap then twist agian. I wouldn;t do the hook thing like in the tutorial above. But either way should work just fine.

[cardude007617]

does it really matter which side u ground on (amp or deck) ? i mean the cable will then be grounded

[cardude007617]

ok well i grounded the amp's RCAs, and um i got no sound outta my subs....0 zilch. amp was ON and no protect

[Rosado]

oooo i think iv seen that done before. dont pioneer decks have this issue alot? i hope i can find something that wraps well tho....

can i just ground it to the bolt i have the amp grounded to? it might just be easier

Some of them do,, but I dont. The higer end stuff doesnt.

ok just to make sure you are doig this right.
Plug the RCA in the amp. Then wrap the wire around the OUTSIDE of the RCA plug. ( The meatal part).

[cardude007617]

i made a hook, bent it inside the RCA, and shoved the RCA with the wire inside it on to the amp. then ran the wire down to the ground.... i didnt get anysound out of my amp then

[Rosado]

U didnt listen to what you were told to do. He didnt say plug it in with the RCA, he said to wap it on the outside of the RCA. The wire is thick enough to prevent the RCA plug prong to reach the inside. That is the reason why you did not get any sound. No signal to the amp.

Wrap it on the outside once you have pluged it in.

BTW , where is the ground for the radio?

[Mendoza]

Thats why i do not recommend doing the hook inside the rca. Hopefully it didn't damage the rca.

[cardude007617]

lol ddd on me..... the ground for my deck is the bolt SERIOUSLY right behind the deck, its like it was meant to be used for this..

i should meantion, i rewired my car a while back to run m aftermarket speakers off my deck and i got no noise. now that i amped em, i get noise so the deck ground must be good

[cardude007617]

ok so use the hook to wrap it around the outside of the rca.....right? but what holds it on?

[Rosado]

No , that is not true at all.

Ok you have a 4 and 8 guage wire to power the amps. correct?
Are you using a 4 and 8 guage wire for a ground. The ground wire has to be as thick as the power wires.

So if one amp is using 4 guage the ground wire should be the same.

[cardude007617]

ugh sorry. ok so whats not true?
and

im using 4g ground for the 4g power, and 8g ground for the 8g power...like how it came pretty much. and i know ur ground should be the same if not bigger than ur power

[Rosado]

NO HOOK.. IM going to hook you right in the face LOL

Plug the RCA in. WRAP the bare wire around the plug. ( METAL PART) You can use your fingers to hold it tight in place to test it. If it does work , get electrical tape and tape in place....

[cardude007617]

ok so u tape it up when ur done.... ok

[Bryan]

NO HOOK.. IM going to hook you right in the face LOL

lol Yeah I've never seen that hook deal anywhere but on that site Paul. I've always seen the wrap.

[Rosado]

i should meantion, i rewired my car a while back to run m aftermarket speakers off my deck and i got no noise. now that i amped em, i get noise so the deck ground must be good

Thats not always true..


We all could be banging out head on the table for you and it could be the deck itself..


If that doesnt work for you, change the ground wire on the radio to a spot you know for sure that has perfect contact to metal. I know which bolt you are talking about too. Change it.

[cardude007617]

ok gotcha. so wrap the wire around the RCA while its on the amp, and tape it to hold it on.

right?

[Rosado]

hold on 1 sec im going to post a picture for you. It looks like you like to look at the pictures instead of reading. give me 2 min

[cardude007617]

ooo is there any way of testing the whine without starting the car up 50 times??

[Rosado]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/691000-691999/691400_24_full.jpg

PLUG IT IN ^^^^^^


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/691000-691999/691400_25_full.jpg

WRAP AROUND THE OUTSIDE.
BUT YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH OF THEM LIKE THAT ONE THAT IM SHOWING YOU

[Rosado]

No. You have to run the car in order to hear it. If you dont run the car, it should not make noise and then you think that you have it all fixed until the next morning. THen your going to want to punch something and break it. Not only will you still have to fix the noise but now your going to have to fix what ever you broke..

[cardude007617]

heh i have those RCAs i think. so strip a gooood inch off the wire right? and just wrap it around

[Rosado]

Dude , im going to poke you in the eye!!!!!!!!!

That is what the picture is showing you..... YES

[Mendoza]

lol i always have such a hard time explaing stuff to him. lol you will get it Paul!

[cardude007617]

ok then just wrap them around the ring terminal for the ground? or pin them under it? or wats best/easiest

[Mendoza]

Do what was done in the picture for god sakes then ground it.

[Mendoza]

screw it in with the ground.

[Rosado]

I have a question for ya..... What type of lights is in your car. I just looked on your cardomain page and I see you have lighting. Are those LED? Or are they tubes?

Are your lights on at the same time the car is running with the system?
If they are shut off your lighting...

[cardude007617]

ok. up front i have 1 pair (1 tube for each side) of cathodes in my footwells and those are grounded along with the 4.7 LED strip in up to the fuse box. next: i have a 19in LED strip i nthe trunk grounded to the right (seperate ground) of my amp ground, seat post bolt tho.

worth mentioning tho, i thought about that too, but it doesnt make a difference if they are off or on so thats not it. all the stuff is wired to the same switch up front tapped off my trunk light/monsoon amp fuse

[Rosado]

Did you try the RCA deal yet?

[cardude007617]

i will tomorrow, its 1055 here and im too lazy/its too dark to do it now. so wat do u want me to do? ground only the sub amp's rcas? or the 4ch? or both

[Rosado]

Do the 4 ch first. If it doesnt work for the 4 ch, it will or may not work for the sub amp.

[cardude007617]

ok, so should i move the 4ch ground back to the sub ground? cuz i have them seperate now. but they're only like an inch apart...(sub ground is on the seat post, 4ch is a ground i made in the thin metal between THE CARRR and the seat post)

[cardude007617]

and as im going to bed.....should i get 18g or 16g? i have a lil 16 laying around but its not enough and its moderately hard to work with and 18g would be easier and its only like 20c a foot...

[Mendoza]

18g is fine. I would start at the sub amp since you said it only happens when you plug in your sub amp. Unless i read wrong.

[cardude007617]

ok one more thing to point out. ever since i hooked up the 4ch (saturday) iv noticed that the voltmeter on my cap is much much lower. the most it will read now is like 13.8 or so with everything on and at a reasonable volume. i have just a regular battery up front, no deep cycle or anything. is it time for a high output alt? cuz i see the voltmeter get in the 12s often....... :(

[Rosado]

That is normal. The higer the volume , the more your going to push the amps. The more they are going to draw from the cap. Once the cap is done, your running dorectly off the batt and the alt.

So to start round number 2 , did you do the wire ground?


Hold on to your seats this is going to be good LOL

[cardude007617]

ok so back up again. i was messing around and something is odd about my sub amp. this is all with the car off btw:
if i only have the 4ch on, the cap drops like .1 or .2, no big deal..... but as soon as i make the sub amp goes down, the cap reads 10 something. whats the problemo?

[GrandAmGT1996]

This thread annoys me, I feel bad for you Chris. lol

[Rosado]

LOL,, we are trying to help him out. Its all good. I could not stop laughing last nite. We were all there at one piont... I know I was..

[cardude007617]

lol sorry, i was sooo out of it last nite and ya. ok so, forget the volt problem i figured it out nothin major; just my sub ground was bad, so i moved it back to my new 4ch ground spot. but now the rpm whine is even louder.....

i was thiking tho, since i only really hear it outta my fronts, should i just get a freaking ground loop isolator or what?

[WeibSunder]

lol sorry, i was sooo out of it last nite and ya. ok so, forget the volt problem i figured it out nothin major; just my sub ground was bad, so i moved it back to my new 4ch ground spot. but now the rpm whine is even louder.....

i was thiking tho, since i only really hear it outta my fronts, should i just get a freaking ground loop isolator or what?

I think you need to stop being such a ;attention. lol

[cardude007617]

well im sorry to have put u all thru this but it's my RCAs..... i tried a different set, and viola; it went away.........now wat can i do with these 2 sets of RCAs that whine that i got with a 4ch 8g amp kit?

[Mendoza]

Throw them the **** out... lol close this problem solved

[cardude007617]

lol, what brands do u guys suggest me getting, my other kickers seem to work pretty well

[Mendoza]

What type of application? Front speakers, amps? don't you have it all already?

[cardude007617]

i need a 2 sets for my 4ch amp. meaning 4 total RCA cables

[GrandAmGT1996]

I never had a problem with my Rockford Fosgate RCAs.


...this thread is a mess, lol

[Mendoza]

I would personally run tsunami wiring or stinger. I have stinger in my own car but if i ever do it over agian i would probley run tsunami. Check it out
http://www.tsunamionline.com/product_listing.php?id=5

Edit
These are nice for 4 channels.
http://www.tsunamionline.com/product.php?id=780

[cardude007617]

i know isnt it a freaking mess?

ok so the current topic is: What RCAs to get to avoid the RPM Whine?
so give me some brand names that uv had good luck with.



EDIT: i just found these on ebay, i knwo they're cheap but are they any good in the least: http://cgi.ebay.com/20-Ft-Tsunami-RCA-Cable-Interconnect-4-Amp-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ250171946345QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 94845QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Mendoza]

Eh i don't know about those. Spend alittle bit more money and get these. I wouldn't get anything over 17 feet. Thats all you should need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-HYPER-SERIES-4-CHANNEL-CAR-AUDIO-RCA-20-SHR420_W0QQitemZ140156453993QQihZ004QQcategoryZ328 09QQcmdZViewItem

[Bryan]

OT: I'm sorry I'm still laughing my ass off at this..
NO HOOK.. IM going to hook you right in the face

Dude , im going to poke you in the eye!!!!!!!!!


lol

[cardude007617]

Eh i don't know about those. Spend alittle bit more money and get these. I wouldn't get anything over 17 feet. Thats all you should need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-HYPER-SERIES-4-CHANNEL-CAR-AUDIO-RCA-20-SHR420_W0QQitemZ140156453993QQihZ004QQcategoryZ328 09QQcmdZViewItem

wow thats still pretty cheap. anyone else 2nd me getting these after i hear back from knuconceptz about these POSs? they look nice tho, and iv seen these at my car audio store too

[Rosado]

I Told You!!!!! But Noooooooooooooooo

What do you need ,,,, a 2 channel or a 4 channel <<< RCA

I have a 2 channel RCA ( Stinger just like in the ebay picture)
I have a 4 channel Kicker RCA

I really feel like kicking you right now!!! :(

[cardude007617]

lol, im sorry i thought they were decent cables. do u agree with those stinger ones mendonza found on ebay?

[Rosado]

I have them here right now.. Yes I agree with him on those. The ones I have are a 2 channel.

WAIT TILL YOU GET OUR BILL FOR THIS ONE!@!!!!!!!!

[cardude007617]

they're good? lol






now im trying to piss you off..... lol

[Rosado]

Yea they are good. Im running the pro seires 3 RCAs now. I just have these sitting around doing nothing at all....

Trust me, if they were not good, I would not ever suggest it to you. I feel like im talking to my dam wife in this thread LOL

[Mendoza]

ya were not a bunch of idiots here we both do this for a living lol.

[jperryss]

I think you need to stop being such a ;attention. lol

Thank you for saying what we've all been thinking for months. :D

[ancona46]

were the rca's that were whining knuconceptz by any chance?

[Rosado]

I belive so...

[ancona46]

i have the same problem

[Rosado]

Check all your grounds and change RCAs.

[cardude007617]

they are.....they are from their 4channel 8g amp kit...........i emailed them last nite and still havent gotton a word from them yet. should i just go and order those Stinger ones and call it a day? iv noticed that since my kicker RCAs i used for my subs werent long enough i had to use 1 set of the knuconcepts ones on my subs. my subs sound different.........that must mean that these RCAs really are CRAP.

[cardude007617]

heres what i got from them:


Paul, Sorry, this is the first email we received about any trouble you are having.

RPM whine is result of a ground loop. Do you have a Pioneer Radio? They are known for noise. The problem is the gauge of wire used in our RCA cable is providing less resistance then 12 negative ground wire going to either the HU or the amp. It is usually the factory radio ground that causes the issue. Running a separate 12 gauge speaker wire (used to carry 12 + and 12 -) from the amp's power leads to the head unit's power and ground and removing the factory harness 12+ and 12- will eliminate the issue correctly. The RCA ground output in the HU is not isolated from its chassis fully and the noise is from a lower resistance. Power flows through the least resistive path, be it a 18 gauge factory wire or your RCA ground (which is near 18 gauge x 2) This power is pulled from the amp which has a lower ground resistance then the HU through the ground lead of the RCA. This is because our RCA cables internal resistance is lower then that of the factory wiring harness or the amp's chassis ground. Cheaper RCA's will have a smaller diameter gauge ground lead within the cable and thus a higher resistance cable. This keeps the voltage from traveling back and causing the loop and also impedes the voltage to the amp's input. High resistance is not something you want in an audio cable as it can cause signal loss.

I am sure that since you bought a 4 channel kit you tried both sets of our RCA's and got the same result. That cable is used in every Kolossus kit we sold for the past 5 years - needless to say it has a very proven reliability track record. For you to have two defects at one time would be incredible odds.

[Rosado]

In other words, F$#* off is what he is tell you. Bottom line,, CHEAP RCA..
Buy the stinger wire and call it the day. This goes to show you and everyone that, when you try to save a buck, it will bite you in the ass. Sometimes you hit a homerun. Most cases, you bottom out.

I am sure that since you bought a 4 channel kit you tried both sets of our RCA's and got the same result. That cable is used in every Kolossus kit we sold for the past 5 years - needless to say it has a very proven reliability track record. For you to have two defects at one time would be incredible odds.

^^^ that right there is funny to me..

ancona46 Where did you get your RCA from? If you bought it from the same guy, Its time to email him and complain about it.

[cardude007617]

well im still ahead over best buy prices so im not really complaining i guess....

just thought id toss up what he said to me

[Mendoza]

You did say you tried another set of rca and the whine went away right?

[cardude007617]

i did.....i only have the whine in back now with these knuconceptz RCAs, the pair i got up front (kickers) dont....so ya its the rcas

[ancona46]

In other words, F$#* off is what he is tell you. Bottom line,, CHEAP RCA..
Buy the stinger wire and call it the day. This goes to show you and everyone that, when you try to save a buck, it will bite you in the ass. Sometimes you hit a homerun. Most cases, you bottom out.



^^^ that right there is funny to me..

ancona46 Where did you get your RCA from? If you bought it from the same guy, Its time to email him and complain about it.


yea i got em from the same place but im too lazy to write an email ill just live with the whine lol i only drive the car once every 2 weeks or so

[cardude007617]

u got em for ur subs too? cuz my subs sound blah since i had to switch em....

[ancona46]

ya i get noise in my sub when my tv opens i hear a thud

[cardude007617]

hmmm maybe it would be worthwhile for you to get some new RCAs like i am here

[ancona46]

in time i will

[cardude007617]

is there anything i can do with these POSs until those stingers come in? cuz its really starting to irritate me..

[Mendoza]

burn them and drive around with no music

[cardude007617]

burn them and drive around with no music

heh, any options that dont include:
fire, the trash, cutting, blowing up, breaking, selling, or returning?

[Metallman56]

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-SNI-1-SNI1-Ground-Loop-Isolator-RCA-Noise-Filter_W0QQitemZ170157383546QQihZ007QQcategoryZ505 52QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

pretty much your gonna have to deal with it

[cardude007617]

EDIT: those new stinger cables came in today and fixed everything....u think i should go after that knuconceptz at all? like some kind of a refund or anything?


....I never knew silence would sound sooo good.... lol

[Rosado]

Listen to people that know.... Filters are :bleep:

Put the wires in :cook:

[Metallman56]

only reason i suggested it is so he would stop b*tching and whoring up the board. i could really care less if its a band aid or not at this point

[Rosado]

Hahahahaha

[Jake]

This ****ing thread is seriously still going? :pwhore: