Chose my subs...

[darkshines]

Ok, so I'm going to be purchasing a 2004 Black Pontiac Grand Am GT "Ram Air"(yes I know it's a gimmick) sedan by the end of this week. They're asking for 10,900, but since it already has 96,000 kilometers (might be 70,000, I don't recall), I'm going to start at $8000, and am willing to pay $8500 at the most. But enough of that.

So, provided the BCAA 143-point mechanical and visual inspection goes well, I'll be getting the car, and recognizing my need for pounding bass in my first vehicle, I'm going to need to get a decent sound system.

I've been lurking this forum section for a few days, and have read pages and pages of threads. A few times this sub has been suggested :

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3415

Assuming MB Quart is as good a brand as it says it is (and how most of you guys say it is), 66% off of a sub seems like a deal too good to pass up! So I figured, hey, I'll buy two of those (and use both, or maybe just one depending on your answers to my questions.. read on:)). All seems well!

That is until I started looking at amps. Everything I see is ohms, or amps, or DVS or SVS, I also think I saw something about voice coils! Gah, I excelled in physics, but I never quite was able to wrap my head around electromagnetics and circuits! I know the ohms is the impedance, and that the speaker determines the impedance, not the amp (I think?), but I'm still confused. Also, I see a bunch of 2 channel things, and 4 channel things, and mono amps? I'm sure you could see how a newbie such as myself would be confused. Then again, that's not really a big deal. I don't HAVE to understand my set up. I just want to know works with what, but I don't need to know why.

I know that the subs I'm looking at are 500 watts RMS, so I should attempt to find an amp that is around or below 500 watts RMS, but all of the amps I looked at didn't provide an RMS rating, but merely a total power output. By the way, I'd prefer to buy everything off of woofersetc, so I can do all the shipping at once.

Anyways, all of that said, my questions are :

1) Are there any decent amps that can run both of these subs at once, at or below 500 watts each, at a decent price (i.e I don't really want to spend more than $200.00 on an amp/yes I know that's reallllly cheap)?

2) If not, are there any decent, cheap amps (x<200$) that can run just one of these subs at or below 500 watts? (I'm guessing that's where a mono amp would come into effect?)

3) Would those subs together fit in this?
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3517&CFID=6420929&CFTOKEN=e3f1af7b2ba78e54-8D06E6CF-1422-7C6E-504DDEE4375D0751
Also, would just one of them fit in this?
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3527&CFID=6420929&CFTOKEN=e3f1af7b2ba78e54-8D06E6CF-1422-7C6E-504DDEE4375D0751

4) Lastly, I know I should use the search function for this, but is there a major problem with using the factory 8 speaker Monsoon MP3 HU with this kind of setup?

Thanks a bunch. I know it's a lot to read, and a bunch of questions that you may or may not have heard before, but if you don't mind, it'd be excellent if you could take the time to give me some info.

Thanks again!
Amir

[Rosado]

You dont need to have an amp that runs at 500. You can go higher. Its all in the tuning. If you have never done this before, its best that you let someone that knows that they are doing do it. Also You are going to need RCAs, power kit ( comes everything you need). Are you planning on changing the radio and going after market. There are other things you have to consider. Right now you asking about stuff that is going to cost 300 to 400 or so. You still have to get a few more things. It all depends on what you are doing with the radio. I put some amps down there that you could use for the price range that you are looking at. 1 12 is more than enough to put in the car. If you going to use 2 12`s then buy the box that they are sharing the air space. Anyone on of those amps will work with 2 or 1.


Buy one sub and use this amp http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HIFONICS-MONO-BLOCK-1-CHANNEL-AMPLIFIER-AMP-1000W_W0QQitemZ320168204235QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3863 8QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or this amp http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-ZX750-1-750-WATT-MONO-BLOCK-CLASS-D-AMP-NEW_W0QQitemZ290168942661QQihZ019QQcategoryZ64570Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


or this amp http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-MONO-BLOCK-MRD-M605-CAR-AUDIO-AMPLIFER-AMP-V12_W0QQitemZ140166105896QQihZ004QQcategoryZ64570Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Im sure other guys will chime in on this. I just looked real quick.

[cardude007617]

hifonics amps FTW!!!!! i got 2 of em in my car and love em both, a brutus BXi 1206D for my subs and a zues ZXi 4404 for my speakers. great product

[kuecker_dj09]

Paul wont like me saying this, but get either the Alpine or the Kicker Amp. get 4 gauge wiring or thicker. one of those subs will be plenty to satisfy your bass.

since you will be keeping the factory deck in the car, you will have to get a line-output converter to convert the rear speaker wires into a female RCA jack then plug that into the amp.

for the remote wire, i believe you can splice into the factory monsoon amp turn-on? anyone want to chime in on this? i dont know a monsoon, so i can only guess

[jperryss]

for the remote wire, i believe you can splice into the factory monsoon amp turn-on? anyone want to chime in on this? i dont know a monsoon, so i can only guess

Yup. There's a remote wire coming out of the stock HU that goes right to the Monsoon amp for turn-on purposes. Actually, it's blue IIRC. He could tap into it at the HU or at the amp.

[Rosado]

Yup spice the remote line.

[cardude007617]

with some hot sauce? or what?




splice lol......

[kuecker_dj09]

prolly tapping at the amp will be convient since the amp is going to be mounted in the back anyway...and its close to the speaker wires he will need to tap into too

[whoisryan]

for small "er" cars like the grand am the best sound for wattage comes from pioneer i have 2, 12 inch pioneer subs and they are awsome i have tryed alpine (which are grait for SUV's and such) but the response isnt the same and why waste money on buying box... they are not hard to make... make sure u use somthing to cover the sub... plexy glass works grait it protects the sub and alows the bass to bounce off the glass and produce better sound in the car.

[cardude007617]

ooooook then, you are officially CLUELESS!!!!!!!!!! subwoofer manufacturers dont make certain sus for certain applications. thats like saying a Alpine deck is made for a coupe and a Pioneer deck is made for a wagon.

[whoisryan]

thats not what i said.... i said with certain brands of subs.. you may want better responce from less battery power. try throwing lets say a full alpine system 4 chennel V12 amp, 2 type R back ovil speakers, 2 type R circle front speakers, tweaters and a 12" alpine sub in your generally stock grand am. in 6 months you may have gone through 2 batteries and possibly an alternator. But for slightly less sound quality you can get generally the same setup from pioneer and have little to no problems. not to mention what you save in cash...

[Metallman56]

those Quarts are a great sub. and i'm normally the guy recomending them to those on a budget.

as far as amps go, as long as there CEA certified there generally ok amps. i personally have had problems with Kicker amps taking a dumb for no reason. so i dont buy kicker any more. alpine i've never had a problem with there amps. they seem pretty solid. hifonics i've never had any expericance with, but they seemed overhyped.

just get a amp that has matching rms as your sub or subs, and wire it to the same ohms. we can help with that.

[jperryss]

thats not what i said.... i said with certain brands of subs.. you may want better responce from less battery power. try throwing lets say a full alpine system 4 chennel V12 amp, 2 type R back ovil speakers, 2 type R circle front speakers, tweaters and a 12" alpine sub in your generally stock grand am. in 6 months you may have gone through 2 batteries and possibly an alternator. But for slightly less sound quality you can get generally the same setup from pioneer and have little to no problems. not to mention what you save in cash...

You're still implying that Pioneer equipment for some reason will get you the 'most' sound with the least amount of battery juice. That's a very broad and vague statement, not to mention innacurate. People in here are running Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, RF, JL, HiFonics, etc. and they aren't going through batteries and alternators every few months. I'm running an 600w system now for over a year (previously ran an 800w, 3-amp system) and I'm still on my STOCK (4+ year old) battery. And only one of those amps was a Pioneer. And I do 35K miles a year, so it definitely gets used.

Infinity and a lot of other car audio companies make speakers that are far more efficient than Pioneer stuff, and many make Class D amps which will theoretically put less strain on the battery than an equivalent Class A amp. Wouldn't they be 'better' for smaller cars?

Saying Pioneer stuff is good for small cars and Alpine is good for SUVs is like saying computer speakers are good for listening to music. Listening where? At the computer maybe, but certainly not in the car or sitting on the toilet.

(NOTE: In case anyone misread that, 'efficiency' is only one small part of the whole picture. I didn't mean to imply that more efficient = better, because that's not necessarily the case. Also, I am a Pioneer fan, nothing against them.)

Also, how do you 'cover' the sub with plexiglass? Are you referring to a bandpass box with a plexi front panel? Of course your system is louder, bandpasses usually are, but 95% of the time you're trading sound quality for loudness.

[whoisryan]

all i was saying is that no matter what you buy... when there are multiple brands for the same product there are pros and cons for every brand. And different situations are better for certain brands. its all about getting the right ratio for the right situation

and yea i was referring to a bandpass box with a plexi front panel. along with making it louder it protects it

[MIAaron]

There are many types of bandpass enclosures. Some types protect the sub like a sealed enclosure, while some don't like a ported enclosure. But it's not difficult to protect a ported enclosure. All you need is a sub-sonic filter, which is just a very low HPF.


Efficency does matter a lot when you are concerned about your stock electrical system. Although GA's have a pretty descent system as it is. I have 800rms on my front components and 800 on my sub and havn't had any dimming issues. I imagine the OP will be fine on his stock alt and battery.


OP,
If you are curious about an audio definition, visit bcae1.com. Pretty much everything someone new to audio needs to know is on that page. You'll also get much better information than what normally gets passed around, as the "telephone game" effect plauges car audio. Too many times someone new goes into an audio shop and they get advice from the salesman. Sometimes the shop salesman doesn't really know what they are saying, but more times than not the customer doesn't quite get what they are saying. Next thing ya know they won't listen to someone else cuz they were told from the source, and spout things like "bandpass boxes make it louder and protect the speaker". I can pretty much tell what the person that talked to whoisryan said. Ryan is trying to help but didn't quite catch onto the concept and is spreading false information. It happens all the time. Referencing bcae1.com will help you avoid this.

[jperryss]

I think when he said "protects the sub" he was referring to 'shielding' it from loose stuff in the trunk that could damage it, not protecting it from reproducing damaging low frequencies:
"and yea i was referring to a bandpass box with a plexi front panel. along with making it louder it protects it"

You may have caught that, but I couldn't tell by your post ;)

A plexi front will protect the sub from flying projectiles, though, that's just not it's dedicated purpose. :D


There are many types of bandpass enclosures. Some types protect the sub like a sealed enclosure, while some don't like a ported enclosure. But it's not difficult to protect a ported enclosure. All you need is a sub-sonic filter, which is just a very low HPF.


Efficency does matter a lot when you are concerned about your stock electrical system. Although GA's have a pretty descent system as it is. I have 800rms on my front components and 800 on my sub and havn't had any dimming issues. I imagine the OP will be fine on his stock alt and battery.


OP,
If you are curious about an audio definition, visit bcae1.com. Pretty much everything someone new to audio needs to know is on that page. You'll also get much better information than what normally gets passed around, as the "telephone game" effect plauges car audio. Too many times someone new goes into an audio shop and they get advice from the salesman. Sometimes the shop salesman doesn't really know what they are saying, but more times than not the customer doesn't quite get what they are saying. Next thing ya know they won't listen to someone else cuz they were told from the source, and spout things like "bandpass boxes make it louder and protect the speaker". I can pretty much tell what the person that talked to whoisryan said. Ryan is trying to help but didn't quite catch onto the concept and is spreading false information. It happens all the time. Referencing bcae1.com will help you avoid this.

[MIAaron]

Oops, the painfully obvious. haha For some reason I put more into it than it was. :doh: This happens far too often, I gotta stay away from the newbie threads. ;crap

[jperryss]

Oops, the painfully obvious. haha For some reason I put more into it than it was. :doh: This happens far too often, I gotta stay away from the newbie threads. ;crap

I try to play the middle ground; I'm not a car audio guru, but I like to think I know my way around. So I usually pick up on these things. :D

[MIAaron]

If I ever hit guru status these posts will be like hieroglyphics! lol

[kuecker_dj09]

you guys are making this too difficult for the OP to understand. he simply wants to choose the right amp for the subs.

you got way off topic talking about box types, and different brands. he stated in his original post that he has chosen MB Quart as his sub brand, because other threads have recommended it.

with this out of the way, perhaps you guys could suggest amps for his subs that he has chosen?

[jperryss]

It's all Ryan's fault. He came in here spouting a bunch of drivel that didn't make any sense; we had to set him straight so he didn't go around telling everyone that since the GA is a 'smaller' car, Pioneer is the best, and that Alpine gear works best in SUVs. :lol:

Amp recommendations? I've run Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, RF, Profile, and PPI with virtually no issues (except for the Pioneer, incidentally enough). Just avoid the notorious brands (Pyramid, Pyle, Legacy, Boss, Audiobahn, Dual, etc.) and you'll probably be OK.

Profile probably has the best bang-for-the-buck; They have a reputation for being a cheapo brand, but their amps are probably among the best of the low budget stuff. My last one (California, blue series) is going on it's 5th year in someone else's car and still kicking.

[kuecker_dj09]

also another side note is that Profile isnt CEA rated, which basically means that the RMS they state in the specs may not be correct, however if they work so well....you might not need to worry about it

[Codlax]

i have 2 12'' pioner subs with a 760 watt amp and 2 10'' dual subs with a 580 watt amp in my GA and it sounds great couldnt ask for a better sounds very crisp and clear

[Metallman56]

i have 2 12'' pioner subs with a 760 watt amp and 2 10'' dual subs with a 580 watt amp in my GA and it sounds great couldnt ask for a better sounds very crisp and clear

you actually could ask for better sound. i'm not trying to dog on you or your system, but pioneer and dual are really not all that great. you should really check out brnads like Boston Acoustics, Diamond Audio, and even MB Quart for some excellent SQ subs. you really cant go wrong with any of these brands. again, not trying to dog on you, just trying to help ya.

[jperryss]

you actually could ask for better sound. i'm not trying to dog on you or your system, but pioneer and dual are really not all that great. you should really check out brnads like Boston Acoustics, Diamond Audio, and even MB Quart for some excellent SQ subs. you really cant go wrong with any of these brands. again, not trying to dog on you, just trying to help ya.

It sounds like you meant well, but he did say he was happy with how it sounds. As long as he's happy with it, who cares?

Though I don't really agree with the fact that he's running two pairs of different-sized subs, but that's not really any of my business. ;)

[cardude007617]

It sounds like you meant well, but he did say he was happy with how it sounds. As long as he's happy with it, who cares?

Though I don't really agree with the fact that he's running two pairs of different-sized subs, but that's not really any of my business. ;)

heh 2 different brand subs, with 2 different sizes

[Codlax]

Hey man lol like i siad im only 17 working and going to school :-P i just do what i can afford to do *mommy and dady dont buy me anyting for the car or even the car haha*

[Metallman56]

Hey man lol like i siad im only 17 working and going to school :-P i just do what i can afford to do *mommy and dady dont buy me anyting for the car or even the car haha*

:applause: good for you. for 17 4 subs is pretty damn good. and he's right, as long as you like it, thats all that matters.