Powrtuner Discontinued

[Shock24Z]

http://digitalhorsepower.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=news&_a=viewnews&newsid=3

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=4153504&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1


No Longer Sold

Due to hardware obsolescence, the DHP Powrtuner is being discontinued. Once the current stock level is sold out, there will be no more Powrtuner packages sold.

Future software updates may not exist, but if you have a tuner, and 1.5 file support is missing, those will be added to the database.

Send a Ticket into the Helpdesk if your 1.5 file support is still missing.

I figured I should pass the word on...

[timka86]

great.....

I just bought one a few months ago, haven't had a chance to learn to use it yet....

[lvemy3100]

great.....

I just bought one a few months ago, haven't had a chance to learn to use it yet....

yea but you know that I will be happy to help you out with that ;)

[geldartb]

i saw this coming

[SpyhunteR]

HPTuners anybody?

[AaronGTR]

Dude, that sucks. Looks like it's HPtuners only now (after they sell out). Who knows how long that will continue either. This could be the beginning of the end of GA performance. :( Without the ability to tune people won't be able to do any serious engine mods. If anyone has any future plans of modding, I'd get a tuner NOW while you can.

[silvergtjrad]

Glad that I bought one! That really sucks though. Maybe they will stop testing OBDII emissions soon in IL and I can go with a standalone.... UGhhhh.

[lightningGA]

DAMN...this sucks!!!

So if I'm planning on S/C the car soon would it be in my best interest to get one of these now????

[silvergtjrad]

DAMN...this sucks!!!

So if I'm planning on S/C the car soon would it be in my best interest to get one of these now????

At this point, I would got with HP tuners.

[Lab Rat]

dammit

[vita]

dang it... I was gonna pick one up after christmas. everyone i heard likes the layout of the DHP compared to HP. :(

[xonelith]

This does suck. Wonder how long HPT is gonna remain with GA support now (and GP)!!!

Even though I like HPT better, loss of competition could remove many future tuners from the market (due to price) and removes 'motivation' by HPT to better the tuning for the GA community (IMO)

dang it... I was gonna pick one up after christmas. everyone i heard likes the layout of the DHP compared to HP. :(

Depends who you talk to:) I love the HPT layout.

[Ajaxus]

Since HPT now has the market entirely, I would imagine they'll stay in the game for awhile. If they stay in they can clean up shop for awhile, or atleast until all interest in modding GA's dies off.

[SpyhunteR]

HPT's software is also compatable across a WHOLE range of applications which makes me think it isn't leaving the market for awhile.

[black05GT]

DHP's owner, Charles Beyer, has posted some additional info on powrtuner.com - short version is that the PT hardware vendor has been unreliable, and that DHP intends to continue supporting the software for EXISTING customers. But, apparently, no NEW sales. Anything else is conjecture.
EDIT - this situation does NOT affect the sale of DHP 1.0 PCM's , only the PowrTuner system.

[Sprucegagt]

Basically all new sales are on hold due to problems with the hardware firmware. Will this change in the future, who knows? DHP has not been quick with anything in the past year.

[armith]

There has to be way more to this story.. Hardware obscolence sounds more like a scapegoat.

There's no doubt in my mind that with community help they could:
A. partner up to replace the hardware and make the changes necessary..
B. they could open the software up to the community and allow the community to improve the software and to work with various types of hardware. (I would be willing to contribute. I've been a VB.NET developer for about 3 1/2 years now)

By looks on the GP forums though doesn't sound like either is an option. Which is why it just feels like there's more to it.

Seems like a giant step backwards to go back to selling the PCM 1.0 units and play the ship and tune game..

This puts me between a rock and a hard place because I was going to put some money into the car this xmas.. but this kinda forces my hand a little bit on what to buy.

[Sprucegagt]

There has to be way more to this story.. Hardware obscolence sounds more like a scapegoat.

There's no doubt in my mind that with community help they could:
A. partner up to replace the hardware and make the changes necessary..
B. they could open the software up to the community and allow the community to improve the software and to work with various types of hardware. (I would be willing to contribute. I've been a VB.NET developer for about 3 1/2 years now)

By looks on the GP forums though doesn't sound like either is an option. Which is why it just feels like there's more to it.

Seems like a giant step backwards to go back to selling the PCM 1.0 units and play the ship and tune game..

This puts me between a rock and a hard place because I was going to put some money into the car this xmas.. but this kinda forces my hand a little bit on what to buy.

I'm sure there is more to the story, but don't expect any answers on the DHP or clubgp forums. The DHP community has offered many times to help Charles with updates and improvements. The problem is Charles has been used too many times by the GP community in general to care. Hell most of the people complaining on clubgp don't even have a PT, but they think it's a good idea to go open source. I wonder why..... :nono:

[armith]

Well hopefully he'll have a change of heart or someone else will step up to the plate.. This is a huge blow to the already limited aftermarket for the GA crowd, and I'm sure it puts a damper on the GP crowd too. I hope its not to late to order one.

[Shock24Z]

Actually, Charles already gave some pretty clear answers. Black05GT already said it... but to clear things up further I'll quote charles himself


I don't have the time to fully address this issue, but just dropping in to state I have read this thread... I can't read it invisibly, its a login required board, guys.

Some quick Answers

- Hardware. Yes, they still sell it, yes it supports more than what we support; however.
a.) I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars with them and I'm repaid by them discontinuing the model that *I* use with no notice
b.) I've been subjected to countless 'surprise' firmware upgrades that have caused software issues and customer issues with no notice.
c.) I've received multiple DOA units from the supplier and when I sent those back for repairs, I was given a repair bill.
d.) The 'new' hardware is even MORE expensive than the old. You saw the price, add the cable $18.50, and a RS232 cable $1.50. Then look at the RETAIL price. Subtract the retailer's cut 15-20% and see what our GROSS is. Then factor in other expenses, costs of doing business, split proceeds by 3 partners.......

The bottom line is that the AVT hardware is *NOT* viable for our business. Its obsolete as far as I"m concerned by points listed above.

*This isn't to be read to mean there will never be any hardware; however, why would I advertise units for sale, when I have no hardware (and no ETA) for new hardware? I remember being lambasted left and right for long shipping delays so now I come right out and pull the product so there are no issues and doesn't seem to get me very far. *


On each forum I see everybody jumping at the chance to make this into some scandal. Everyone should step back and realize that DHP has done a ton for the GMV6 community. We all owe DHP nothing but thanks.

I hope its not to late to order one.

It is. However you are likely to be able to pick up a used one somewhere. I would check the Clubgp classifieds for one. The latest software released unlocks tunability on all cars so it won't matter who you get it from.

And who would have thought my 9th post on this board would be stickied? :D

[Shock24Z]

There are some more revelations in this story...

The Good News:

JerryH has released his tuning notebook to anyone out there who wants to see it. For those of you who don't know, JerryH is generally regarded as one of the top tuning gurus amongst the DHP community. This tuning notebook is highly sought after and probably the best learning device for a newcomer to the DHP community. It can be found in the following links.

http://www.conncgp.net/Tuning_Notebook

http://www.opentuner3800.com/guides/Tuning%20Notebook.pdf

Please use this link only as a backup if the above 2 links are not working.
http://www.pinestheater.com/tuning.htm


The Bittersweet News:

JerryH and several other tuning gurus have announced that they will be migrating over to HPT's side. Of course its sad to see them leaving the DHP community. However, their addition to the HPT community will likely benefit the HPT community hugely. It has been said before that HPT's software is more capable, but their V6 community was lacking. This will probably change now that HPT is the only option we have.

So, I would now suggest to anyone who has not yet bought a tuner to stay away from a used DHP and get a HPT instead. HPT's community is now the place to be and will likely take GMV6 tuning to new heights. If you have recently purchased a DHP (like myself) you are not by any means screwed or out of luck. The PT boards are still open and are filled with information and as mentioned above, Jerry released his notebook again.

[lastyear4gt]

Glad I didnt buy that.

Even if you can get ahold of a DHP program, I dont think I would buy it with no more technical support.

As for the future of HPtuners and their support, they have alot of platforms on their program, and I am sure that they would still be willing to keep on top of our cars as part of the line-up. It's possible with the rush of GA owners now turning to HPtuners, support could get better!

[Shock24Z]

Even if you can get ahold of a DHP program, I dont think I would buy it with no more technical support.


They did not say they would stop with technical support. If you're PT breaks then they won't repair it, but I don't think I've heard of many, if any, cases in which hardware malfunctioned. Issues with tuning usually stem from users setting up their PT improperly or software bugs.

Like I said, HPT is the best option now. But the DHP community isn't completely dead yet.

more of Charles post...


- Software. Never said software support was ending. However, its not going to move any faster without hardware selling. Some points to discuss
- Yes people have volunteered. However, throwing X amount of people on a task does not make it finish in the time / X. Its a lot more complicated than that and just the overhead of
managing the work of multiple people over virtual offices (per se) further complicates it and makes it time consuming. I'm more than happy to bring people in; however, just throwing people at a problem (like just throwing money) does not solve everything.
- Opensource. Not going to happen anytime soon. Why? The attitudes by some (i.e. software should grow wings) here and on clubgp really makes me think twice about giving away work.
- 1.5 updates will happen.
- Data mapping updates. Not sure what to do with this. Will probably ensure that all vehicle yeras have consistent coverage at a minimum.
- NDA / Eddie. I'm really tired of this. The powrtuner is protected by US copyright laws. No one without express permission has the right to reverse engineer / modify / alter contents of the
powrtuner software. This includes data files, application software, algorithms contained in it. That extends to making your own ancillary program to edit data outside of the PT.
After looking at certain checksum algorithsm contained in certain utilities, its almost impossible to believe it was not 'borrowed'. Because of this, it was requested that certain people stop
distributing software.

[armith]

Hey I have the utmost respect for Charles and what he and DHP have contributed to the community.. In that regard he deserves mad props and thanx.. Its just a bummer that this product is getting cut due to incompetance of the supplier and the few who've created beef with DHP. Its hard enough keeping the aftermarket going for our cars. This just adds one more obstacle and limitation to the hobby.

Oh and I can respect not releasing the software open source.. It was merely a suggestion because in some ways it seemed like DHP was looking to wash their hands of this completely.

I'm not always a fan of the open source route due to, as mentioned, attitudes of those tightly intrenched in the Open source crowd. But thats a whole other conversation. As long as DHP is supporting the software they wrote, then big thumbs up.

Maybe I'll luck out and see if I can pick up one used. I'd give HP a shot but I'm familiar with PT and I've used PT when helping Schweppe with his car.

[black05GT]

There is a lot of speculation and mis-information being posted in this thread. Please do the community as a whole a very big favor, and before you post incorrect and /or incomplete information, please get your FACTS straight,, and preferably from the source. I think Charles Beyer's replies have been quoted directly in this thread, yet I read posters concerned about no more technical support - can you not read plain English ? They will continue to support EXISTING customers' software, DHP is not selling any new licenses.

[Sprucegagt]

I think it's pretty safe to say that the Powrtuner is finished. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful to any 3400 GA owner. But if you are looking for custom stuff like a 2 bar MAP conversion, etc.. well, I wouldn't look there for it. Below is a partial copy from Charles replying to a question about the future of PT.

knowledge, and you get questions about open source so that willing people can continue to improve it. As a pioneer in the 3800 pcm tuning area and a large supporter of the 3800 community for years, it seems strange that you would want to stop any further development to a piece of software that was great, but needs a refresh, behind a copyright that isn't making you any $$ right now and possibly ever again. This simply feels like you're saying FU to the community that made you great. Yes, I know there is more to DHP than Charles Beyer, but that's a different story. I wish I could only explain the ignorance of this in person. The community didn't make me or DHP. We brought a very important product to the community and people bought it. We reinvested the money and created products like the powrtuner. We donated large amounts to local meets/events. People in the community who didn't like our success stole our work and released competing products. The community (as a whole) didn't care? Why? Because the other products were cheaper. This continued for a couple cycles of retailers/vendors and eventually, we didn't make enough profits to reinvest for R&D or to donate anymore to events. Then the community that I owe so much to, soured on us as we obviously just were not the same guys we used to be. This is how we are at this point. (in a very campbell's condensed soup point of view). If you knew the behind the scenes for the last 5 years, you might be very surprised to realize just how much has occurred due to our existence to one extent or another. There's many products out now that would not exist or would have occurred in a very different way had we never existed.

Furthermore, I've done nothing but sacrifice almost every waking hour I've had to this and other projects for the community. What have I got in return? Yes, I've made some money, great. I've made some friends, great. I've wracked up numerous ER visits for health related issues that have hit me in the past couple years which are undoubtedly due to my lack of sleep from late hour work sessions. I have a wife that is beyond pissed because I'm never around. AND when one of the communities 'finest' vendors decided to screw us out of $30K daring us to sue him, how many in the community even gave one ****? I can count them on my hands ands toes, folks.

Then when I say enough is enough, the PT has reached its useful end (for multiple reasons) and I'm not going to give away the 'source' because it would only help those that have contributed to all the BS I've had to endure for the last 3 or 4 years, I have to read post after post of people who somehow think that I'm screwing the community.

For those people, I have two words. GET REAL.

From the sound of things, Charles should write a book on all this. It would probably be an interesting read.

[xtremesunfire]

Well I am trying to get EFILive to get a tune file open up for 3100/3400/3800 but I need alot's of support to get this tuning file rolling since they dont got one yet for the 3100/3400/3800

[2003SCT]

HP Tuners is also now coming out with new hardware which is pretty sweet from what I have seen. I wouldnt worry about them leaving for quite a while.



CHRIS