Looking to spend some money! [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Nick-G
02-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Ok well I am somewhat new to GA modding. I have a 2002 Grand Am GT currently my only performance mod is a cold air intake.

I am currently a senior in school and will be graduating in a few months. So once I am out of school I will be putting quite a few hours in at work and should really be coming into some money.

First of all I will not be doing anything to my car until sometime this summer so right now I am just looking for some input on a few ideas I have. Now these are just a few idea's I have they may not be that great but I am just now starting to read up on things and really look into what it takes to get some power out of the GA.

Here are a few setups I was looking at. (all parts from mms except borla)

1)
- 65mm Throttlebody
- Port Polished 3400 Upper/Lower Intakes
- Ported Exhaust Manifolds
- Tuned PCM
- Borla Exhaust

2)
- 65mm Throttlebody
- 3500 Top Swap
- Ported Exhaust Manifolds
- Tuned PCM
- Borla Exhaust

These are just idea's I am not trying to decide between the two I am mainly looking for suggestions for a better setup. (thought I would say that since for some reason this got moved to the help me decide thread.)

Basically the difference in these two is the port/polished 3400 UIM LIM and 3500 Top Swap.

So does anyone think these setups are any good? Which would be better the 3500 top swap or 3400 port/polish?

Any suggestions are welcome I really want to go through with this but if I am going to spend this much on performance I want to do it the right way so if these setups suck or need changes please tell me. I really want to get the most power out of my car without a lot of custom work and without spending huge amounts of money.

gectek
02-12-2008, 11:08 PM
dont port the manifolds...a waste of time, either way you wanna go, make sure to stay with the tuning idea, but also when u look into these things, make sure you budget enough money for gasket sets, broken bolts and fittings, all the engine fluids, and some basic parts that you will run into that show wear, ie the timing chain and some other things, also it would be a good idea to look into getting a different cam, that will really liven things up, the crappy stock one will lose gumption in the higher rpms where the top end swaps and ported manis will help out alot, also look at performance springs or a set of new stockers...

Nick-G
02-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Actualy I would be saving money for college but I wouldnt be starting until next year and even then the state is paying for my first year anyways so for now I want to spend some money on my car.

I have to leave soon but I will definitely check out WOT-TECH tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the input and if the setups I posted do suck then I would really like some suggestions.

So I will probably check this thread sometime tomorrow I'm in kind of a hurry now.

ryanbgb22
02-12-2008, 11:19 PM
just dont expect unrealistic results....your car will always be slow

kse73
02-12-2008, 11:21 PM
SLP exhaust and SnS headers were perfect for me. All I needed to keep me content until I moved up in the world of cars.

alerored04
02-12-2008, 11:21 PM
lol. harsh but true. both packages look good but dont get ported exhaust manis. Save for headers.

cardude007617
02-12-2008, 11:22 PM
how much do 65mm TBs add on stock-ish cars? (cai/tune)

Nick-G
02-12-2008, 11:22 PM
just dont expect unrealistic results....your car will always be slow

I do realize that but where I live everyone has slow cars. Just my car with a CAI is probably one of the faster cars in the area. I mostly like modding my GA because its something new. Most people I see around here that do mod their cars are driving civics.

silvergtjrad
02-13-2008, 06:14 AM
just dont expect unrealistic results....your car will always be slow

Quoted for truth. My mod list is far more extensive than about 90% of the people here, and my car is still damn slow. A few more weeks though and it will have a new motor, and still be slow compared to most modded cars out there.

Fast is not cheap, and cheap is not fast. No way around that.

TFA
02-13-2008, 06:17 AM
i like 2, mainly because it is similar to my goal. i am looking to do the same thing with the addition of a cam and headers. but also listen to everyone else, expect to add another 500$ or so on top of everything for gaskets, ect. also new springs and so on are a good idea.

silvergtjrad
02-13-2008, 06:21 AM
Headers, catback, tuned PCM, 65mm TB, and a ported upper intake would be a nice mod list, and get you some pretty good gains. Without spending big $$$ I would say that is the best you can do for under $2k.

bigstribs
02-13-2008, 08:18 AM
My first suggestion would be to save your money and go to college. But if your hell bent on modding your car I would go with #2. But I would get the parts from WOT-TECH. Why the desire for MMS parts?

Why not MMS? Why WOT Tech? Check out Milzys site man!

alerored04
02-13-2008, 12:31 PM
why are you all over the nbody sites pushing milzy? You just posted a bunch of crap on aleromod about him. We are all aware of his products and his work. WOT tech is preferred by many because ben is a fantastic guy to deal with, has great prices, and always supports his customers and the community. I have not dealt with Milzy through no fault of his but will continue to spend money through Ben because of his fantastic track record and service.

bigstribs
02-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Just trying to keep up on the sites since he has not posted over there in a while. Didnt mean to offend anybody but just give them another choice. Its all about customer preferance and maybe newbies that are on the site dont know about him yet since a lot of people are not on both sites! I mean Ben has his own people and Milzy has his own people but im not knocking any other or saying one is better than the other. Also you could have pm'd me instead of making this publicly known!! But now that you have for future reference come to me first! Milzy also has a great track record. Both are sponcers on this site.

Mike

MilzyZ34
02-13-2008, 03:39 PM
I just hired Mike here to help around the shop and do a lot of my ebay sales, and some internet advertizing and research. I stay pretty busy between working on cars and running the rest of the business, so Mike is here to fill in some of the gaps I've been neglecting. One of these gaps includes advertizing on some of the other forums that pertain to the products I sell. He's not just blatantly plugging our site, he's just spreading the word to some groups who may not be familiar with us.

alerored04
02-13-2008, 04:05 PM
I did not say anything bad about milzy did I? And i don't think you offended anyone, it just seemed odd to me that a new guy pops up on both sites pushing milzy, that is all i was curious about. You asked why WOT Tech and you got my honest answer with no bashing or other BS, what kind of answer would you like? Now that I have been satiated; back to the topic at hand.

MilzyZ34
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
I did not say anything bad about milzy did I? And i don't think you offended anyone, it just seemed odd to me that a new guy pops up on both sites pushing milzy, that is all i was curious about. You asked why WOT Tech and you got my honest answer with no bashing or other BS, what kind of answer would you like? Now that I have been satiated; back to the topic at hand.

I don't think you said anything bad, you just stated your opinion, offering up another option. I don't have a problem with that.

We're also not trying to offend or bug anyone. We're just trying to get out on some forums that we haven't stayed current on in a while.

Sprucegagt
02-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Why not MMS? Why WOT Tech? Check out Milzys site man!

Why WOT Tech? Simple, Ben has been researching and developing his port work on the 3500 pieces for a couple years now. He has been pushing for people to look at the 3500 top end swap for some time, even though Milzy thought otherwise. Ben's customers have proven that this swap does provide good gains. Now, Milzy provides 3500 pieces and I'm just wondering why people are so willing to buy from him instead of the guy that did the homework for the swap. Now why is it so wrong to ask the question?

TFA
02-13-2008, 04:36 PM
For me its a matter of simply comfort. I bought my first parts from Milzy, now im a Milzy guy. He is a great guy, will help you out with anything, answer all your questions and knows his stuff. Not saying other people dont, Im sure they do, but Iva had good experience with him so Im sticking with him. If he does not offer something that Im looking for I will go somewhere else but thus far the only product he doesnt offer is a set of Headers that he is developing and I am seriously thinking about putting the first set he makes on my car. To each his own, in my opinion noone is better than anyone else, maybe I will go to WOTEC for my 3500 swap, maybe I will go to Milzy, it simply depends on my needs Vs. their services.

MilzyZ34
02-13-2008, 04:40 PM
Why WOT Tech? Simple, Ben has been researching and developing his port work on the 3500 pieces for a couple years now. He has been pushing for people to look at the 3500 top end swap for some time, even though Milzy thought otherwise. Ben's customers have proven that this swap does provide good gains. Now, Milzy provides 3500 pieces and I'm just wondering why people as so willing to buy from him instead of the guy that did the homework for the swap. Now why is it so wrong to ask the question?

I bought three 3500 engines about three years ago for research, do you honestly think I haven't done any research on these parts?

Sprucegagt
02-13-2008, 05:17 PM
I bought three 3500 engines about three years ago for research, do you honestly think I haven't done any research on these parts?

I never said that you didn't do any research. You just weren't offering the parts until after the 3500 top end swap was proven by a competitor. I'm not trying to start an arguement. Instead, what's wrong in asking the question?

Vegeta
02-13-2008, 05:35 PM
The 3500 heads are a better design all around. The intake ports are raised, which gives you a better air/fuel mixture passage to the cylinder. The results are better gas mileage, more power, and a broader powerband with all other parts being equal. There are key additions to the design of the lower and upper intake as well that improve the flow, velocity, and air/fuel mixture. The exhaust ports are also designed with velocity in mind, which helps scavenge the exhaust out of the cylinder and create a less polluted intake charge for the next cycle. If you look at the 3500 exhaust and combustion chamber next to the LS7 exhaust and combustion chamber, you might be surprised:)

I will warn you, that it is VERY easy to make the 3500 heads worse than they come stock. very. I do all of my research myself and have been working on this family of motors since 1999. The improvements from gen 3 (3400) to gen 2 (3.1 MPFI) were huge. The improvements between the 3400 and 3500 are just as significant.

I would not get ported exhaust manifolds. I don't port exhaust manifolds because its the design of the manifold that counts, more than appearance or size. You couldn't make them appreciably bigger without severely weakening the cast iron. Get a set of headers (they do work for 3500 heads).

If you have any other questions, I will do my best to help.

Nick-G
02-13-2008, 11:21 PM
Ok both seem like great sites to me. Depending on what I get I will probably try buying a little from each but I don't know yet.

So from what everyone is saying I shouldn't get ported exhaust manifolds so I wont be getting those. Right now I'm at exhaust, tuned pcm, 65mm throttlebody, and port/polished 3500 UIM and LIM what else would I need to go with those parts.

If anyone is willing to would someone post links to everything I would need for that and possibly what I should add?

gectek
02-13-2008, 11:31 PM
well i would look at a new timing set, thats a major thing to look at. as for the springs and such comp cams 26915 work very well and u can use the stock seat/seals so you dont have to use a different valve stem seal and hardened seat, the 3500 top swap from WOT TECH is all inclusive IIRC, just click on the banner and itll take u there. all the options are there as well. he has the TBs as well, comp cams has the springs or u can get them fairly cheap from WOT, also if you want good power look at titanium retainers, also look at getting your block checked to make sure it is square and flat...also check the oil and if possible the oil pan and make sure they look ok and that there arent any shavings in them. also while u have the heads off, give the pistons and cyls the once over, and take a very good look at the front and rear mounts on the engine(actually all 4 while u are at it) but most inportantly the front rad mount and the rear mount by the firewall.

DrFabulous
02-14-2008, 08:09 AM
Threadstarter- save your money, don't get Borla. Find a shop to weld up something for you for 1/3 price.

Vegeta
02-14-2008, 09:18 AM
Agreed, borla is expensive. I don't care for the sound either but some love it. That much is pure opinion. Aside from the muffler, the rest is cheaper to have done local.

To use the 3500 upper, you need the TB adapter.
http://wot-tech.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30

You will need to bypass your stock TB coolant lines, which I have as an option with the TB for 2.50.

Vacuum line routing is also going to have to be addressed. I am working with a couple people right now to get a walkthrough and parts list available.

Vegeta
02-14-2008, 09:24 AM
Comp 26915 spring work with the stock seats and seals? I haven't tried them but thought they were nearly the same measurements as a stock yellow LS6 spring. The 26986 springs that I sell are a direct drop on. Depends on what cam is going to be used in terms of the spring to use.

gectek
02-14-2008, 10:19 AM
direct drop in i know of because i used them on my new heads. they are just a little snug on the bottom, but you can push it in with your fingers...if you chamfer the bottom of the spring itll fit no prob, and thats on my 02 heads, i like that combo better because i had a prob with the 2.2 seals on one valve leaking and not staying put...you can use those big monsters the 26986 or whatever they are, but they are very big on the bottom end and a big spring overall...

Badblack04GT
02-14-2008, 10:38 AM
3500 > 3400 in almost every way. I intend to hit the 300 WHP mark this year N/A.. lets see a 3400 do that. :boxing:


I'd stick with Ben, he's been very helpfull through the years and dosen't inflate any of his numbers. He also offers a complete line of well designed camshafts, also can custom grind almost anything you'd want. His prices are very nice too.

Vegeta
02-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Good to know:) I like the coil bind properties of the bigger spring, and the spring rate. I will have to check out the 915s if they fit better than the LS6 springs.

Badblack04GT
02-14-2008, 11:04 PM
Good to know:) I like the coil bind properties of the bigger spring, and the spring rate. I will have to check out the 915s if they fit better than the LS6 springs.

I just verified.. and i was incorrect. the Comp 26915's do fit very snugly over the stock 3400 spring seats. The stock seats are .030" thick and the LS1's are .040".. so i guess i know what i'm switching to this year.

I apologise for posting incorrect information.

Nick-G
02-14-2008, 11:07 PM
Threadstarter- save your money, don't get Borla. Find a shop to weld up something for you for 1/3 price.

I agree that Borla is overpriced would anyone suggest this http://www.mpracing.org/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=324 anyway what would you suggest me getting if I did have a shop do my exhaust?

Thanks everyone so far you all have been very helpful. Hopefully with all this help I'm getting I should have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to do by time summer comes.

bigstribs
02-15-2008, 01:37 AM
Sweet :) good luck man!

silvergtjrad
02-15-2008, 05:47 AM
Go for it, not many people have that exhaust yet. The piping is aluminized, not stainless, so it may rust pretty heavily after a couple of winters. I doubt you will be able to buy a muffler, tips, and have the piping bent up for less than that kit costs though.

Nick-G
02-15-2008, 11:35 AM
Go for it, not many people have that exhaust yet. The piping is aluminized, not stainless, so it may rust pretty heavily after a couple of winters. I doubt you will be able to buy a muffler, tips, and have the piping bent up for less than that kit costs though.

Well if that kit will rust easily then I probably wont get it. I live in Minnesota and it usually snows a lot here so I think I would probably be better off paying a little more for something that would last longer.

I do have a few exhaust shops around here their only a half hour drive away so as soon as I get time I will probably stop by a few places and get some prices.

timberwoof
02-15-2008, 01:46 PM
I believe there is a HOW TO thread about doing the 3500 swap. I'm just to lazy to look for it right now, that and i've been up for 28 hours and about to go to bed.

Ajaxus
02-15-2008, 05:44 PM
Well if that kit will rust easily then I probably wont get it. I live in Minnesota and it usually snows a lot here so I think I would probably be better off paying a little more for something that would last longer.

I do have a few exhaust shops around here their only a half hour drive away so as soon as I get time I will probably stop by a few places and get some prices.

If you're gonna go that route, look for sound clips of the flowmaster 80 series on a grand am, there's a few floating around this site. It'll make the car sound VERY agressive, and with some good piping it'll look great.

Or you can try to pick up a used slp system to save a few bucks and still get something solid. You won't find a new one (or atleast have a hard time doing so), it's out of production now.

Nick-G
02-16-2008, 01:46 AM
If you're gonna go that route, look for sound clips of the flowmaster 80 series on a grand am, there's a few floating around this site. It'll make the car sound VERY agressive, and with some good piping it'll look great.

Or you can try to pick up a used slp system to save a few bucks and still get something solid. You won't find a new one (or atleast have a hard time doing so), it's out of production now.

Ok I haven't had a chance to get to a shop yet but after doing some searching how does this sound. Flowmaster 80 with 2.5 mandrel bent piping all stainless steel. Would that be good or would anyone suggest doing anything different?

I would really like a loud aggressive sounding exhaust that looks good and will last me a very long time.

Nick-G
02-17-2008, 03:47 PM
Could this thread get moved back to the correct section now?

gectek
02-17-2008, 03:52 PM
it is in the right section, they designated this section as one to post in when you want help deciding what to do...