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jurgs2007
03-22-2008, 04:35 PM
ok, so i want to put in a custom racing steering wheel in my 99 GA, but according to an employee i am unable to because of airbags. is there a way to take the airbag out of the steering wheel and not set off any codes? and is it legal to do so?

silvergtjrad
03-22-2008, 04:43 PM
Im not sure of the legality of removing the air bags, but it can be done. IIRC there is a member here who has one. His name is escaping me at the moment though.

Bryan
03-22-2008, 04:55 PM
AleroME I think has a custom one. Elderas or Lightning GA too I think..someone with the forbidden kit.

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 04:56 PM
I highly doubt it's legal since airbags are required in all new vehicles.

As for how, can't help ya there.

SSRacer
03-22-2008, 05:31 PM
It is either illegal or will probably screw with your insurance rates.

Tonyyank
03-22-2008, 05:34 PM
If you get into a wreck, your F'ed

silvergtjrad
03-22-2008, 06:19 PM
If you get into a wreck, your F'ed

Drive around with a 5 point harness on!

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 06:21 PM
Drive around with a 5 point harness on!

Not guaranteed to save your life..

silvergtjrad
03-22-2008, 06:32 PM
Not guaranteed to save your life..

Neither is an airbag.

I would think a 5 point is safer than an air bag as well. Gotta have somewhere to mount the harness though.

cardude007617
03-22-2008, 06:37 PM
i saw a thread on oznium awhile back and they defintely came to the consensus it was illegal

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 06:37 PM
Neither is an airbag.

I would think a 5 point is safer than an air bag as well. Gotta have somewhere to mount the harness though.

You can still get major whiplash though, enough to snap your neck. While an airbag can cause injuries (bruises and burns) it's far safer in the long run.


Side note, I did notice a slight joke to your post about the harness, not sure if it was meant or not..seeing as steering wheel replacements and 5 points are typical mods of..erm..*cough*r1cers*cough*

silvergtjrad
03-22-2008, 06:41 PM
You can still get major whiplash though, enough to snap your neck. While an airbag can cause injuries (bruises and burns) it's far safer in the long run.


Side note, I did notice a slight joke to your post about the harness, not sure if it was meant or not..seeing as steering wheel replacements and 5 points are typical mods of..erm..*cough*r1cers*cough*

Nah, I didnt mean it as a joke, but I see where you got it from. I havent seen too many ricers with harnesses, mostly huge red honda logo seatbelt pads.:amraam:

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Nah, I didnt mean it as a joke, but I see where you got it from. I havent seen too many ricers with harnesses, mostly huge red honda logo seatbelt pads.:amraam:

They seem to think a new wheel, shift knob, racing seats and a harness means their car is the shiznit..:amraam:

SSRacer
03-22-2008, 06:53 PM
You can still get major whiplash though, enough to snap your neck.

That's why you gotta wear you helmet and hans device yo!

Tonyyank
03-22-2008, 07:18 PM
what if you drive off a cliff......

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 07:23 PM
what if you drive off a cliff......

that's where the helmet comes in..duh


/thread officially hijacked

silvergtjrad
03-22-2008, 07:41 PM
that's where the helmet comes in..duh


/thread officially hijacked
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k252/RTBrooke/hijack.gif

jurgs2007
03-22-2008, 07:53 PM
lol. well thanks. i just happened to get a custom gt steering wheel from a friend who took it off his car. i thought it might look decent in the GA but since its illegal and all to remove airbags, then i probly shouldnt do it.... cops tend to mess with me around here almost weekly...

Ajaxus
03-22-2008, 08:14 PM
if you have the crappy plastic wheel, start checking your local junkyards for the leather wrapped gagt wheel..it'll have airbags and it looks 10x better than the other ones.

AaronGTR
03-23-2008, 08:38 AM
It is not illegal to remove the airbags. It is just required for them to come in the car from the factory on new cars. You can remove them if you want.

There is no statistical evidence showing that in serious accidents airbags are more likely to save your life than a seatbelt. Also given that the larger percentage of accidents on the road are just fender benders and not life threatening, all that happens when the air bags deploy are they are more likely to injure you, do more damage to your car, and make it more expensive to fix. Have you seen how much new airbags cost? They are over $500 each and the module for them that has to be replaced is over $300. That's more than $1300 just for airbags! Sounds like a scam to me... gives insurance companies an excuse to say your car will cost too much to fix and total it instead.


Anyway, you can replace the steering wheel with a racing type using a momo hub adapter. If you just remove the airbag, it will make the airbag light in the gauge cluster come on and a code will be stored in the body control module, but not in the powertrain control module and it will not affect how the car runs. That's what I did and I just drive around with the light on. Doesn't bother me at all.

I have heard that there is a certain Ohm resistor you can get at radioshack (I'd have to look for it) that if you solder it between the wires going to the airbag, it will keep the light off. I tried it on mine but my light stayed on. My airbags had been deployed though and I later found out that you also have to replace the airbag control module and turn off the code in the BCM with a tech2 or else the light will stay on. So maybe if this was tried on a new system that the airbags haven't gone off it would work. I don't know, but it would be worth trying.


PS. As for insurance, yes you get a discount for having airbags so if you don't have them it might go up a little. They can't deny you insurance for not having them though. Nothing says you have to tell them about it either ;) although technically I think they can deny your claim if you don't have them and someone gets hurt. It your call. I told my insurance company I didn't have them... and the insurance agent still put them on my policy and gave me the discount! Not my problem anymore since I disclosed it.

Ajaxus
03-23-2008, 10:16 AM
There is no statistical evidence showing that in serious accidents airbags are more likely to save your life than a seatbelt. Also given that the larger percentage of accidents on the road are just fender benders and not life threatening, all that happens when the air bags deploy are they are more likely to injure you, do more damage to your car, and make it more expensive to fix. Have you seen how much new airbags cost? They are over $500 each and the module for them that has to be replaced is over $300. That's more than $1300 just for airbags! Sounds like a scam to me... gives insurance companies an excuse to say your car will cost too much to fix and total it instead.


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/nhtsa_airbags.html

NHTSA estimates that airbags have saved almost 20,000 lives.


http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/airbags.html
Check the News Releases halfway down.


http://ohioinsurance.org/factbook2001/chapter1/chapter_1t.htm
Deaths in frontal crashes are reduced about 26% among drivers using safety belts and about 32% among drivers without belts.
More than 6,018 people are alive today because of their airbags (4,750 a year ago), according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

Here's my favorite from this site:
NHTSA estimates that the combination of an airbag plus a lap/shoulder belt reduces the risk of serious head injury by 81%, compared with a 60% reduction for belts alone.

I looked at over a dozen more websites and their numbers held true. Those appear to be statistics proving an airbag's effectiveness.

Now before you jump down my throat about what I didn't quote. There are the cases where children are injured/killed by airbags. But if you read the articles about this you will see that these children either should not have been in the front seat or their car seats were improperly installed, this is driver error not the fault of the airbag.

When it comes down to it, maybe most accidents are just fender benders, but you can't see the future and you don't know if someone is going to get into a major accident. It's better to be safe than sorry. I see what happens to people who get into accidents at my job every day. And many of them have their lives saved by airbags.


As for your arguments about cost, wtf? Justifying the sacrifice of safety over money? You've got to be kidding me.

AaronGTR
03-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Key word in most of those is "estimates". What I'd like to know is, if someone gets in an accident and has their seatbelt on AND their airbags deploy... and they live... how do they prove it's because of the airbags and not the seatbelts?

They can't.



I think the insurance companies have enough money to pull strings at the NHTSA and promote any propaganda they want, and you'd never know. After all it is a government agency, and those of us in states with no fault insurance know how that works. The government and the insurance companies claimed it would save us money and it actually did the opposite. So why would you believe anything the government or the insurance companies tell you? They are only out to make themselves money. They don't give a damn if you survive a car crash. :rolleyes:

jurgs2007
03-23-2008, 07:28 PM
ok. about the airbag light going off... i shoud just be able to remove the airbag light if i cant get it to go away right? i have a handheld device that deletes codes, but they do come back if the problem isnt fixed.. and does anyone know exactly what adapter i would need to attach the wheel since all of them that i can find are only rated for up to 93 GA's?

AaronGTR
03-24-2008, 11:36 PM
The hand held device you have won't delete codes from the BCM. Only a tech2 can do that. Most other code scanners only work on the pcm. If you wanted to take the airbag light out, yes you could do that but you'd have to take apart your gauge cluster. The car will also make three extra chimes when you start it up. There's no way to get rid of that. I'd try the resistor first and see if that works. It's not hard to do.

Any momo hub adapter for any late model GM car should work (ie, cavalier, grand am, F-body, etc.). I bought mine from RK sport from their catalog for the cavalier. It fit perfect 'cause they use the same size steering shaft with the same end. The adapter just pushes over the knurls on the end and the wheel bolts to the adapter.



If you decide to do this, just make sure it's what you really want. I think it's obvious from this thread that there are pros and cons. For me personally, I decided the cons weren't that big a deal. You have to decide for yourself though.

jurgs2007
03-25-2008, 05:27 PM
The hand held device you have won't delete codes from the BCM. Only a tech2 can do that. Most other code scanners only work on the pcm. If you wanted to take the airbag light out, yes you could do that but you'd have to take apart your gauge cluster. The car will also make three extra chimes when you start it up. There's no way to get rid of that. I'd try the resistor first and see if that works. It's not hard to do.

Any momo hub adapter for any late model GM car should work (ie, cavalier, grand am, F-body, etc.). I bought mine from RK sport from their catalog for the cavalier. It fit perfect 'cause they use the same size steering shaft with the same end. The adapter just pushes over the knurls on the end and the wheel bolts to the adapter.



If you decide to do this, just make sure it's what you really want. I think it's obvious from this thread that there are pros and cons. For me personally, I decided the cons weren't that big a deal. You have to decide for yourself though.

ok, if a resister is an option, then what if i was able to locate the correct wires on the bcm and either cross them or ground one, think that might work?

AaronGTR
03-25-2008, 07:52 PM
Doubt it. The BCM only handles part of the operation and basically just turns on the light if there is a problem. The part where the resistor is supposed to go is between the two wires that actually plug into the airbag, and those wires go back to the airbag control module under the passenger seat, not the BCM.




edit: btw, I found the resistor. It's supposed to be a 2.2k Ohm.

Elderas
03-28-2008, 01:59 AM
Momo hub 2401 they sell em on ebay

Good luck yanking the damn steering wheel off tho. GM Had to get crafty and completly ignore the standardized method of removing steering wheels. They had to make their own damn method.

jurgs2007
03-28-2008, 08:28 PM
thanks guys. should be getting this done in a couple weeks.

MrNooblet
06-01-2008, 03:39 PM
So how did it turn out looking?

LukeL
06-03-2008, 10:51 AM
It is not illegal to remove the airbags.
In NY you cannot have your car pass inspection with the Airbag Light ON...I would double check to see if you can pass inspection with a malfunctioning Airbag. Essentially the disconnected Airbag will turn the Airbag Light on and will throw a code to the scanner saying the Airbag is not functioning properly. I had a busted clock-spring throw my light on and had to replace it to pass inspection on my Truck.

grandam3400
06-03-2008, 03:02 PM
I have a friend that had the airbags taken out of his steering wheel and dash board when he ordered his Lexus.

jurgs2007
06-03-2008, 07:20 PM
i havent gotten to it yet. i got the resistor that i need to trick the computer into thinking the airbag is still there. also i am waiting till i have time when i wont have to drive anywhere till im done with it.

AaronGTR
06-03-2008, 10:13 PM
In NY you cannot have your car pass inspection with the Airbag Light ON...I would double check to see if you can pass inspection with a malfunctioning Airbag. Essentially the disconnected Airbag will turn the Airbag Light on and will throw a code to the scanner saying the Airbag is not functioning properly. I had a busted clock-spring throw my light on and had to replace it to pass inspection on my Truck.

Sucks for you in NY. :)


I guess if someone can find out if the resistor trick actually works, then people could do it and not have a dash light on or a code set. Then people in inspection states wouldn't have to worry about it. Personally I think inspections are a load of BS though, and I wouldn't live in a state that required them.... or those ugly front license plates. lol

ramair4thesoul
06-03-2008, 10:15 PM
Same NC. No inspection if your car came factory with airbags and they are taken out.

LukeL
06-04-2008, 05:56 AM
Personally I think inspections are a load of BS though.
They are...

jurgs2007
06-04-2008, 05:27 PM
yea, im stuck with a front plate... thats one law wisconsin has that i hate... along with the 35% tint law...