Brakes, or Hub Assemblies? Or Something else? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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darkshines
01-28-2009, 06:48 PM
I got the infamous SVS/ABS/TRAC lights on my dash about 5 months ago. At the time I figured it must be the hub assemblies, even though I couldn't hear any discernable noise or indications that the hubs were shot, i.e., I couldn't hear the "airplane" noise or the "squealing" noise. Car seemed to be performing normally except for some occasional tire slip on left turns (might have just never noticed it until I started looking for things though).

Fast forward about 3 weeks ago and I'm starting to get some very loud squealing from my wheels. I think it's coming from the right side, can't tell if front or back. It's not constant, it's usually when I'm just beginning to accelerate or when I'm braking, also whenever I turn the wheel to the right it squeals.

I haven't replaced my brake pads or rotors since I bought the car a year and a half ago, so they might be even older than that, which leads me to believe I just need new pads, and might as well replace rotors too. I can't figure out if the new squealing is just the hubs deteriorating further, or if its the wear indicators on my disc brakes.

Thanks, Amir

lone_wolf025
01-29-2009, 01:23 AM
I got the infamous SVS/ABS/TRAC lights on my dash about 5 months ago. At the time I figured it must be the hub assemblies, even though I couldn't hear any discernable noise or indications that the hubs were shot, i.e., I couldn't hear the "airplane" noise or the "squealing" noise. Car seemed to be performing normally except for some occasional tire slip on left turns (might have just never noticed it until I started looking for things though).

Fast forward about 3 weeks ago and I'm starting to get some very loud squealing from my wheels. I think it's coming from the right side, can't tell if front or back. It's not constant, it's usually when I'm just beginning to accelerate or when I'm braking, also whenever I turn the wheel to the right it squeals.

I haven't replaced my brake pads or rotors since I bought the car a year and a half ago, so they might be even older than that, which leads me to believe I just need new pads, and might as well replace rotors too. I can't figure out if the new squealing is just the hubs deteriorating further, or if its the wear indicators on my disc brakes.

Thanks, Amir

Easy way to figure that out. Jack up the car put your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock on the tire and see how much play you have. Should have very little if any. And definitely pop off the tires and check the brakes. If you can't do that, bring it to a shop like meinekie or however its spelled for a free brake inspection.

My money's on the hub. Brakes would start off gradually squealing only when applied. Plus the wear indicator would wear away itself as it scrapes against the rotor eventually fading and then becoming louder whenever the pedal is pressed again.

AaronGTR
01-29-2009, 08:24 AM
fyi, when the SVS/TRAC/ABS lights come on, it has NOTHING to do with the wheel bearings wearing out. ;) It's caused by a short in the wheel speed sensor that is integrated in the hub, and the reason why the hub needs to be replaced to correct the problem. Not because the bearings are worn.

As for the new squealing sound, yeah it's probably your brake pads. Jack the car up and take the wheels off and check 'em to see if the pad is worn down to the wear indicator tab. Typically you can go through two sets of brake pads for one set of rotors. If the rotors are smooth and don't have any grooves or too big a lip at the edges of the brake pad travel area, then they probably don't need to be replaced. If the opposite is true, then they probably need to be resurfaced or replaced. I recommend just replacing them, as resurfacing the rotors makes them thinner and more prone to warping which is already an issue for many people's stock brakes. :thumbs:

darkshines
01-31-2009, 06:00 PM
Easy way to figure that out. Jack up the car put your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock on the tire and see how much play you have. Should have very little if any. And definitely pop off the tires and check the brakes. If you can't do that, bring it to a shop like meinekie or however its spelled for a free brake inspection.

My money's on the hub. Brakes would start off gradually squealing only when applied. Plus the wear indicator would wear away itself as it scrapes against the rotor eventually fading and then becoming louder whenever the pedal is pressed again.

fyi, when the SVS/TRAC/ABS lights come on, it has NOTHING to do with the wheel bearings wearing out. ;) It's caused by a short in the wheel speed sensor that is integrated in the hub, and the reason why the hub needs to be replaced to correct the problem. Not because the bearings are worn.

As for the new squealing sound, yeah it's probably your brake pads. Jack the car up and take the wheels off and check 'em to see if the pad is worn down to the wear indicator tab. Typically you can go through two sets of brake pads for one set of rotors. If the rotors are smooth and don't have any grooves or too big a lip at the edges of the brake pad travel area, then they probably don't need to be replaced. If the opposite is true, then they probably need to be resurfaced or replaced. I recommend just replacing them, as resurfacing the rotors makes them thinner and more prone to warping which is already an issue for many people's stock brakes. :thumbs:


I just bought a jack and stands, so I'll give that a shot right away.

I honestly now believe its the brakes and the hubs lol. Come to think of it I've given it some pretty hard braking since I bought the car, and although the rotors look pretty clean where the pad makes contact, on the outer and inner edge there's about a 1/4 inch ring of rust.

So I figure I'll just buy some solid or slotted rotors and some new brake pads, then of course I'll get my hubs replaced. Any idea how much a shop will charge per hub if I provide the parts?

Thanks

Mike Jung
01-31-2009, 06:13 PM
...So I figure I'll just buy some solid or slotted rotors and some new brake pads, then of course I'll get my hubs replaced. Any idea how much a shop will charge per hub if I provide the parts?

Thanks
I had my RF wheel hub/bearing done last Monday.

The labour billing was for 1.20-hours at $99.90/hour = $118.80

darkshines
02-01-2009, 03:41 PM
Easy way to figure that out. Jack up the car put your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock on the tire and see how much play you have. Should have very little if any. And definitely pop off the tires and check the brakes. If you can't do that, bring it to a shop like meinekie or however its spelled for a free brake inspection.

My money's on the hub. Brakes would start off gradually squealing only when applied. Plus the wear indicator would wear away itself as it scrapes against the rotor eventually fading and then becoming louder whenever the pedal is pressed again.

There was zero play in the wheel when I did what you suggested. When I span my front driver wheel, it span perfectly and noise-free.

But when I spun my front passenger wheel, it sounded like a squealing sound. Kind of like the brake pad was contacting the rotor even though the brakes weren't depressed?

I had my RF wheel hub/bearing done last Monday.

The labour billing was for 1.20-hours at $99.90/hour = $118.80

Hmm, so I guess probably about $150 a side CND. That's not too bad.

Another question, When I jacked up the front of my car, I had it in park, and I engaged the emergency brake. My front tires span freely; I was under the impression since it was in park, they shouldn't have been moving at all. Is this normal?

lone_wolf025
02-01-2009, 05:23 PM
There was zero play in the wheel when I did what you suggested. When I span my front driver wheel, it span perfectly and noise-free.

But when I spun my front passenger wheel, it sounded like a squealing sound. Kind of like the brake pad was contacting the rotor even though the brakes weren't depressed?



Hmm, so I guess probably about $150 a side CND. That's not too bad.

Another question, When I jacked up the front of my car, I had it in park, and I engaged the emergency brake. My front tires span freely; I was under the impression since it was in park, they shouldn't have been moving at all. Is this normal?

If zero play then the hub is mechanically sound. However, as Aaron pointed out if you've got the lights on, the sensor could be bad and if that's the case the whole hub will be replaced as the sensor is built into the hub.

You really need to remove the wheels and stick your head in there and look at those pads. The rotor surface where the brakes make contact will always be clean looking and the brakes don't make contact on 100% of the rotor surface. So the rust rings are normal on the far outer and far inner edge.

As for the squealing, again pull off the wheels and check it. And yes the wheels will move even while the car is in park. All park does is keep the trans from moving when the car is on the ground and the trans disengaged from the engine.

Oh yea and Mike's figures were already in CDN ;)

AaronGTR
02-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Yeah, even if the car is in park that just keeps the trans from letting both wheels turn in the same direction. Your trans has an open differential though, so if the front is off the ground you will still be able to turn the front wheels, they will just turn in opposite directions. ;)

darkshines
02-02-2009, 02:29 AM
If zero play then the hub is mechanically sound. However, as Aaron pointed out if you've got the lights on, the sensor could be bad and if that's the case the whole hub will be replaced as the sensor is built into the hub.

You really need to remove the wheels and stick your head in there and look at those pads. The rotor surface where the brakes make contact will always be clean looking and the brakes don't make contact on 100% of the rotor surface. So the rust rings are normal on the far outer and far inner edge.

As for the squealing, again pull off the wheels and check it. And yes the wheels will move even while the car is in park. All park does is keep the trans from moving when the car is on the ground and the trans disengaged from the engine.

Oh yea and Mike's figures were already in CDN ;)

Alright, tomorrow when I change my oil (speaking of which, I swear my oil pan bolt isn't 15mm, the socket was way too big for the bolt), I'll take the wheels off and check out the brakes. And phew, I thought something went wrong with my transmission! :)

Yeah, even if the car is in park that just keeps the trans from letting both wheels turn in the same direction. Your trans has an open differential though, so if the front is off the ground you will still be able to turn the front wheels, they will just turn in opposite directions. ;)

Ok, see that makes more sense. When I read lone_wolf's reply, I was like "well then why doesn't my car roll down a hill when it's in park". Considering the wheels spin opposite directions, it makes sense now.

edit - How much did your LSD cost? And how much for the labor, if you didn't install it yourself?

Thanks guys,
Amir

AaronGTR
02-02-2009, 07:17 AM
Ok, see that makes more sense. When I read lone_wolf's reply, I was like "well then why doesn't my car roll down a hill when it's in park". Considering the wheels spin opposite directions, it makes sense now.

edit - How much did your LSD cost? And how much for the labor, if you didn't install it yourself?

Thanks guys,
Amir


Mine was like $800 and some change since I got the race version. I went directly through Engineered Performance though. Mark at MP Racing was trying to organize a group buy with a better price last year but I don't know what ever happened with that. Thread is here LSD group buy (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70029&highlight=LSD).

As for labor, that could vary widely depending on what shop you use and if you take the transmission out for them or have them remove it. The whole trans basically has to come apart to install it so it has to come out of the car. Also as long as it's coming apart it's best if you go ahead and beef up the rest of the internals like the clutches and accumulator pistons. If you are planning on making enough power to really need the LSD then you'll want the rest of the trans built too, and that's going to add to the cost. I'd say somewhere in the $2500-3000 range for a full build including parts and labor. Mine was significantly less, but only because I had it rebuilt by the trans guy at the car dealership my Dad worked at so I got hooked up.

darkshines
02-02-2009, 01:06 PM
Mine was like $800 and some change since I got the race version. I went directly through Engineered Performance though. Mark at MP Racing was trying to organize a group buy with a better price last year but I don't know what ever happened with that. Thread is here LSD group buy (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70029&highlight=LSD).

As for labor, that could vary widely depending on what shop you use and if you take the transmission out for them or have them remove it. The whole trans basically has to come apart to install it so it has to come out of the car. Also as long as it's coming apart it's best if you go ahead and beef up the rest of the internals like the clutches and accumulator pistons. If you are planning on making enough power to really need the LSD then you'll want the rest of the trans built too, and that's going to add to the cost. I'd say somewhere in the $2500-3000 range for a full build including parts and labor. Mine was significantly less, but only because I had it rebuilt by the trans guy at the car dealership my Dad worked at so I got hooked up.

So you're suggesting if my tranny ever goes and I need a rebuild, I might as well build it up?

AaronGTR
02-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Well not exactly. You wanted to know how much the LSD and install was. What I was getting at is that you don't really need the LSD if you are close to stock HP and the cost of installing the LSD wouldn't be worth it if that was all you were doing. If you plan on making over 200 HP at the wheels though the stock clutches are kind of weak and will eventually burn out at that power level and with stock transmission programming. At that point you would want to build up the transmission so it would be more worth while doing the LSD along with the clutches and everything all at once. :thumbs: