Car will not start HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

PDA

View Full Version : Car will not start HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


thormxkid
06-28-2009, 09:35 PM
ok here's the run down...the car will not start without help of gas being sparyed into the TB.

i hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and it read the following

car in on position not running 60 psi. (which is good)
car running 53 psi. (3-10 drop....which is also good)
vaccum line removed from FPR while running 60 psi (which is good)

now heres where thing get tricky.....with car shut off after running for a while car should not loose anymore then 5 psi. within 5 minutes.

the car quickly drops from 53 to 0 psi. within 10 seconds.


now there many things it could be at this point :
leaky injectors, leaky fuel rail, leaky fuel lines, bad FPR, or bad check valve.


everything but FPR and check valve would be visable.( do to how quickly it leaks)

now my question is anyone have a good idea on what it is between the 2 options i have left or why i should not rule out 1 or more of the others?

and on a side note the car will start on it's own after being helped to start at the begin of the day night w/e as long as it has sat for a long period of time( more then 3 hours) but if its hot as hell out it can sit for longer periods and still start(6 hours)

thormxkid
06-29-2009, 08:55 AM
checked the fitting for the fuel pressure tester and tighten it a bit and now i get no pressure loss when i turn the car off...

now im really stumped!;crap

cks20
06-29-2009, 02:59 PM
When it does not start is the security light flashing? On some of these cars, the PASSLOCK system will disable the injectors when it starts to act up. But, this does not explain why the car will start (and continue to run I assume) after gas is sprayed into the TB.

thormxkid
06-29-2009, 05:16 PM
no problems with passlock at all

Lab Rat
06-30-2009, 05:32 AM
FPR most likely. My guess is the gasoline is puddling so the engine is flooded. After it sits for awhile it clears out and you start. It could also be the injectors. They can behave the same way but are much more $ to replace. I did change the FPR on my daughtors 3.1 Malibu. A little tight but pretty simple. Did you do the "suck test"?

thormxkid
03-14-2010, 10:02 AM
any one have a clue what this problem could be it still is a problem and hasn't been fixed. it's almost time to pull it out for spring but im not driving till it's fixed.

i've been thinking it could be map sensor, coolant temp sensor or??

KhellendrosxS
03-14-2010, 10:20 AM
FPR most likely.

Did you do the "suck test"?

^This.

The coolant sensor and MAP have nothing to do with your car not starting if youre loosing fuel pressure.

thormxkid
03-14-2010, 10:22 AM
yes and it's fine that way

thormxkid
03-14-2010, 04:27 PM
^This.

The coolant sensor and MAP have nothing to do with your car not starting if youre loosing fuel pressure.

but im not losing fuel pressure it was just the fitting on the rail wasnt tight and was seeping out there. when i tightend the fitting i got no pressure drops. tells me all fuel related systems are ok?!

bad pcm maybe not sending an injector pulse?

KhellendrosxS
03-14-2010, 07:25 PM
I see.

Take off all the connections to the throttle body and spray starting fluid into the UIM. If the car starts and tries to run you still have a fuel delivery problem to sort out.

That will include the FPR, injectors and pump. One of those three or a related circuit is at fault.

thormxkid
03-14-2010, 10:16 PM
little update i tried the crankshaft position sensor on the back of the motor and no luck

3POINT4
03-14-2010, 11:04 PM
I see.

Take off all the connections to the throttle body and spray starting fluid into the UIM. If the car starts and tries to run you still have a fuel delivery problem to sort out.

That will include the FPR, injectors and pump. One of those three or a related circuit is at fault.

did that and when we spray starting fluid it fires up and runs and will then fire up on its own unless it sits for 2 or 3 hours

its only on the first start or after long periods that this happens

KhellendrosxS
03-15-2010, 07:21 AM
I think both of you still need to do the suck test on the FPR to make sure the diaphragm has not ruptured.

The Crankcase Position Sensor plugging and unplugging wont do much. If it were faulty it would have set a P0336-P0343 code. Your check engine light is not on is it?

GrandAmMe
03-15-2010, 08:26 AM
I think both of you still need to do the suck test on the FPR to make sure the diaphragm has not ruptured.

The Crankcase Position Sensor plugging and unplugging wont do much. If it were faulty it would have set a P0336-P0343 code. Your check engine light is not on is it?

I agree with you for trying to check for codes.

thormxkid
03-15-2010, 04:17 PM
I think both of you still need to do the suck test on the FPR to make sure the diaphragm has not ruptured.

The Crankcase Position Sensor plugging and unplugging wont do much. If it were faulty it would have set a P0336-P0343 code. Your check engine light is not on is it?

i have tried that and it's fine i've also done everuthing the haynes manul said to try and presure tested the fuels system in all ways that would tell if anything that was wrong fuel wise..

and unplugging the crank sensor will not allow the car to start all at. so really it does alot

KhellendrosxS
03-15-2010, 07:24 PM
i have tried that and it's fine i've also done everuthing the haynes manul said to try and presure tested the fuels system in all ways that would tell if anything that was wrong fuel wise..

and unplugging the crank sensor will not allow the car to start all at. so really it does alot

I meant it wont do much in the way of diagnosing what seems to still be a fuel related issue.

thormxkid
03-15-2010, 07:46 PM
hmm well if the car has and holds fuel pressure...and the fpr is fine....and the car runs completely fine once started...and will start when warmer what would that leave for fuel

patrick1883
03-15-2010, 10:47 PM
Most likely cause is going to be the fpr. What happens is the diaphram inside the regulator leaks into the vacuum side. The fuel then goes into the intake and floods out the engine. You should perform the before mentioned "suck test", as he put it. To do this just apply vacuum from a hand vacuum pump to the regulator and it should hold 15 in. for at least 5 min. If you don't have a hand pump, try just leaving the vacuum line off and plug the line (i.e. with a screw or similar object). If your car starts and runs normally that way, then it is the fpr.

thormxkid
03-22-2010, 08:18 PM
well brought the car to a shop...now they don't knoe the fix ethier yet maybe someone will have a idea what i could be now...

when checking for fuel injector pluse on cold cranking there none...but i have spark....and reads passlock invald...

when i spray fuel into the intake it fires up and countunes running and now reads passlock valid...

any ideas

thormxkid
03-25-2010, 08:31 AM
the shops down to sayin it has tp be the pcm cause everything else checks out...now for a pcm can i get anyone that is a 2003 3400 or does it have to have matching numers?

patrick1883
03-28-2010, 09:23 PM
now it makes more sense...after you try and start the car, does it flash "security" on the ipc? if it does then it would make sense that you have a vehicle theft deterant problem. the vtd sensor is in part of the housing that the ignition lock cylinder is in. when you turn the key, it sends a specific voltage to the bcm and then pcm to enable the engine to start. if this voltage is out of range, then the pcm will not receive a fuel enable signal from the bcm. this will cut the injectors and give the problem you are describing. still possibly a pcm, but more likely it is the vtd sensor and/or the wiring. it is not hard to change the sensor yourself and relearn the vtd. if you would like, you can pm me and i can send you some detailed instructions on doing so.

another question...did the shop tell you if there were any codes stored in either the pcm or bcm? if there was a b2960 stored in the bcm, then the vtd sensor is the most likely culprit.

thormxkid
03-29-2010, 06:42 AM
no it doesn't flash secuity...so it's not a passlock issue...we've even done a relearn to make sure of that...

we replaced the pcm and still same isssue...and no there are not any code stored.

im goin to be headin to the shop soon to get some moe up to date info.

my thoughts are maybe i have a fuel injector shorted out? causing all of them to not pulse on startup? dono if that is right but will see what they say ?