What the Fu- Production Protege does 14's!

[jaketuff]

Okay, I read thru the latst issue of MT today and noticed a commercial for "MAZDASPEED." They talked about Turbos for cars and a T-25 Garrett ball bearing Turbo.

Well, I read on and found that they are GOING TO OFFER a MazdaSpeed Protege from the showroom witha warranty!!! Okay, so what, it ain't know EvoVIII, or Stii - well, the sucker is boosted from 140HP to 170HP, and it now does 0-60MPH in 6.5sec, and the quarter in 14.9 at 93MPH!!! Unbelieveable, even Mazda knows the deal, give it power and it will be bought!!!

They plan to offer 6,000 a year of these things...

Okay that is excitement! Now from GM the excitement is -
Ponti-who? Chevy-wha? Sat-heh? Olds-Oh yeah.... they don't believe in selling power... the beancounters make sure that the only things sold are 4wd Rolling Roadblocks, or 2wd Buick Roadblocks...

Hmph,

JOUT

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Ya know, when I saw the Mazdaspeed Protoge in Motor Trend with the 350Z on the cover, I immediately started laughing when I thought of this forum. I say this because like the day I bought the magazine, someone on this forum had gone to a Protoge forum where they were talkin smack about grand ams, so some grand am people from here went over and told them how slow their Protoges were.

The Protoge people immediately responded that their MP3 version handled much better by showing info that some magazine (Car and Driver maybe) had rated their car like the number 7 best handling car in the world, including supercars.

Now all I can think of is how now the GAGTs don't even have straight line performance better than the Mazdaspeed Protoge now lol after going to their forums and everything!

[MetaGTP1]

We have Pontiac excitement, but it comes by way of Magnason Products. I guess it's Eaton SC excitement. Now Mazda is finally backing up their commercials, ZOOM,ZOOM, ZOOM. PONTIAC, WHERE IS YOUR ZOOM? Ram Air, Yeah Right.:confused:

[Vintalage]

I personally think the Grand Am GT should have more power. A 5 hp jump from 170 and a 10 torqe jump from 195 is ridiculous. I don't think of Ram Air as anything significant. I think of it as a marketing tool to reel customers in. Not saying that it is bad. The GT should be pushing 200 or 215hp and 230 or 245 torque. And why didn't gm upgrade power for the 2003 "update?" Or come out with the supercharger, put it in the Grand Am, make other mods to the Grand Am to give it a somewhat substaintial increase in performance and name it GTP, SC/T, or Hot Wheels edition. With a decent price of course. Come on Gm.

[SlamminPontiac]

Why do you guys even have Grand AMs??:confused: Not to bash any side hear but... You should be alittle more ummmm... enthusiastic about the cars you drive. I mean you liked the car enough to buy it, then you got excited and found a web club about it... so I would think you would stick up for it just a bit more? Kinda odd I think for you too bash the cars you own on a web sight for people who are into it?

[WOLF]

If I remember right the car does 0-60 in 7 seconds and putters down the 1/4 in 15.4 not in 14 range. So for a car that weights over 300 lbs less and has about the same hp WITH a manual it really doesn't have that good of proformace numbers. Drop a manual in a GAGT and will do the same WITH an extra 300lbs on its back.

Please people, you have to remember that these are tiny spec "I can hardly fit in the back seat" cars not even close to the size and weight of a GA, so if you want to go faster than a Mazdaspeed Pro. just go Borla add a cone filter and some other add-on that will add about 5hp and you'll out run a Protoge. Plus the price of a that Protoge is basically the same as a nicely loaded GT. Hmmmmm, I think I'll take the GA for more room in every direction and the thought of only spending a extra grand to outrun one.

In other news, we can blast a Toyota MR2 with ease, 0-60 8.2 and 1/4 in 16.2 @ 86mph for 25+ grand. Ok, now try to figure that blunder out compared to dissing a GA over a incredibly smaller and lighter aftermarket tuned Protoge.


I'm starting to think that alot of you don't understand what cars the GA is going against and what cars to compare it with *read up people before comparing crap*.

[jaketuff]

Originally posted by WOLF
If I remember right the car does 0-60 in 7 seconds and putters down the 1/4 in 15.4 not in 14 range. So for a car that weights over 300 lbs less and has about the same hp WITH a manual it really doesn't have that good of proformace numbers. Drop a manual in a GAGT and will do the same WITH an extra 300lbs on its back.

No pal, not to flame, but YOU need to read. Take a look in MT. It has a story on this 14 sec Protege, it is 1 page and an ad for MazdaSpeed. We should be able to demolish these small cars as you say, that is what upsets me...

MazdaSpeed is like the SVT of Ford, the STI of Subaru, the Mugen of Honda, the R/T group at Chrysler... And the "yet to be named" section of GM.

I am one of the more hardcore Grand Am enthusiasts here, but call it like it is, other manufacturers are blowing us away now. I have a GAGT with a SC, and I am just a tenth faster than this special factory edition Mazda Protege!!! That is crazy... :( BUT I WILL BE FASTER!;)

If only there were a fuel system/PCM reprogram for the GAGTs that are SCed... Then we would be MUCH faster.:thumbs:

JOUT

[SlamminPontiac]

Dude listen to what you are saying!!!!! Our cars are a basic design. They havent been taken apart andput back together buy specialests at a sepret shop with highperformance race parts... Yet we still are a really good compeditar against any sooped up car out there! and priced under most of them out there! let alone the comfortzone is way nicer!!GIve it up for Pontiac!!Thell get to the point of after market power..but they need the money first! and witht he way the price there cars affordable it takes a while...

[WOLF]

I was going by Car and Drivers full report on the Protege, which seems sometimes to have more realistic #'s compared to motortrend. Anyway, Car and Driver report had the P. doing 0-60 in 6.9 seconds with a strangly slow 15.4 @ 91 1/4. Usually a car that will crack the 7 second barrer will have a faster 1/4 but eh, maybe its the motor or a bad clutch.

I do think people seem to get confused because the last gen. GA was the size of the current Sunfire and weighted only 2880 lbs in 1998 compared to 3120 lbs in the current 1999-up GA. The Protege weight wise and size wise should be compared against the Focus SVT, Civic Si, Sentra SE-R, and VW Golf 1.8T.

That makes a much better comparison, and the Protege comes out pretty much on top, only car better is the Golf and at the same price too. But then again, the compition is a good grand cheaper if you exclude the VW Golf.

What WILL be neat to see is the next gen. GA going against the 240hp accord, Camry *yawn, never have liked that car*, Altima, and some other mentionables. Will basically anything in the 19grand to 24grand range, still I have yet to hear how much the next GA will be and that will be really interesting to find out.

[WOLF]

We can atleast say that we can blow the doors off a Dodge Stratus R/T 0-60 in 8.5 seconds and the 1/4 in 16.6 @85mph and they want 24grand for one of those.:)

Also by the way Jake, with that 1/4 mile you have there, you can out-run a Mustang GT and those will set you back some 23000-27000 dollars. Sound cool to you? The avg. 1/4 mile for the 02 Stang GT is right at 15 seconds, just read the September 2002 Car and Driver and that should put a big grin on your face!

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Stang is nice, but I'd get a slightly used Z28. I don't care if people say the interior is outdated and cheap and the ride is bad, that 310 hp and 340 ft/lb of torque is soooo attractive for the price. I can just imagine throwing that baby into second from 50 mph now, and ride her up to 100+. MMMMM, the power :)

[gagtgrrl]

Originally posted by jaketuff
MazdaSpeed is like the SVT of Ford, the STI of Subaru, the Mugen of Honda, the R/T group at Chrysler... And the "yet to be named" section of GM.

a good analogy, showing the "performance" groups for these auto makers..but gm's IS the gt. the gt has always had the reputation of being "the faster series"
you must remember- our cars are grocery getters they are not high performance machines. i know this and full out admit, for what it is, it's quick, but i do drive a slow car compared to what is out there. stangs are way more horse for less cash..b/c our cars are grocery getters.
the way you're comparing our car to these is like comparing apples to oranges. compact vs. mid-size is quite the difference...it's like comparing a mini truck to a 4X4 and taking them both offroad.
my brother in law has the svt foca$$ and i will admit it's very close between us.
sure, the ones with the s/c SHOULD be able to beat these compacts, but sometimes there are things in life which throw you for a loop (b t w frank- nice vids from milan drag..the vortech s/c is the {better} one all the big boys use up here..heehee but we won't get into that will we?!?)
we were at the track a few months back and there was a 10 sec civic smoking a gtp. now, one would think it would be reverse, but with a few mods anything is possible.
i think i've made my point..but what do i know..i'm "just a grrl"
:D

[MetaGTP1]

Originally posted by jaketuff


No pal, not to flame, but YOU need to read. Take a look in MT. It has a story on this 14 sec Protege, it is 1 page and an ad for MazdaSpeed. We should be able to demolish these small cars as you say, that is what upsets me...

MazdaSpeed is like the SVT of Ford, the STI of Subaru, the Mugen of Honda, the R/T group at Chrysler... And the "yet to be named" section of GM.

I am one of the more hardcore Grand Am enthusiasts here, but call it like it is, other manufacturers are blowing us away now. I have a GAGT with a SC, and I am just a tenth faster than this special factory edition Mazda Protege!!! That is crazy... :( BUT I WILL BE FASTER!;)

If only there were a fuel system/PCM reprogram for the GAGTs that are SCed... Then we would be MUCH faster.:thumbs:

JOUT The GM group that will make souped-up versions of select GM car and trucks is named, drum roll please, GM PERFORMANCE DIVISION. Quite original, huh? :confused:

[black99gt]

Im not willing to to spend a huge amount of money to just knock TENTHS of my car! Thats just dumb i hate to say it.

If i was going to Drag Race my GA for competition, then i would spend the money.

The only other things im going to do to my car: New suspension, exhuast and the rest of the *** kit.

If that... I love my car dont get me wrong, but I could be putting my car payment each month towards a much better car.

In my opinion... GAs are not meant to be modified. I could take 3k and buy a sc for my car and drop .8 tenths off my time.

The guy next to me has a turbo car, spent 2k in mods and just dropped 2 SECONDS... And his car will probly outlive mine anyday.

Hands down... my next car will come from the factory WITH a Turbo.:rolleyes:

[MetaGTP1]

Or a RWD V-8 with a 6 speed manual.:thumbs:

[black99gt]

Originally posted by KmanGT1
Or a RWD V-8 with a 6 speed manual.:thumbs:


KMan If i had the insurance money for that... I would have a WS6 rite now :thumbs:

[MetaGTP1]

Originally posted by black99gt



KMan If i had the insurance money for that... I would have a WS6 rite now :thumbs: Yeah, the insurance costs are insane.:(

[Vintalage]

I'm not bashing on the GA nor GM. I like the GA and plan on getting one. I drive an Alero right now. For the money, the GA is a pretty decent car. I don't think of the GT as a groccery getter. The malibu is more for that. I just think the Grand Am needs a model to top the GT, like the Grand Prix has. The Grand prix has a supercharger, why can't the grand am get that from the factory? The Grand Prix has SE, GT, and GTP. The grand am should be the same. Just my opinion. Still, the ga is a great car.

[jaketuff]

Originally posted by KmanGT1
The GM group that will make souped-up versions of select GM car and trucks is named, drum roll please, GM PERFORMANCE DIVISION. Quite original, huh? :confused:

Glad to see that someone else knows!!!:D

www.gmpartsdirect.com A good source for the part offerings out of the catalog.

The thing is that they have never been at the forefront, only now with the Cavalier and the Ecotec are they finally awakening. OTW, it seems much of their concentration has been on the crate motors, and 8 cylinder rides.

I know that the GAGT is a sporty family car, but still, their is more potential in the performance side of it... I just think it is a shame that GM will not step up and at least add option packages that will give PERFORMANCE, not just looks. But at least they have started to work on the looks recently!!! :D Maybe soon they will step up the FWD performance options on more of the cars...

Pat

[WOLF]

Well the problem is why work on aftermarket parts right now for the current GA when a new one will be coming out soon in the first place. It's not going to have the same engine, lets just wait and see what GM has up thier sleeves because they DO want to gain some of thier market back by offering turned up rides for young people that want go-fast automobiles. THats one reason we are about to see some very interesting changes in the next 2-3 years if not less.

[Vintalage]

and i welcome the change with open arms. I just hope gm comes through.

[beyerch]

adapt and evade and you will survive.....

You guys do need some turbo action. [:)]

Its bad when teh mazda is gunning for you... grrrrrr

get a turbo and some calibration to make use of it and you are good to go.


jake can you pm me when you get a chance please.

thanks

[IrateSpeed6]

Originally posted by jaketuff
I know that the GAGT is a sporty family car, but still, their is more potential in the performance side of it... I just think it is a shame that GM will not step up and at least add option packages that will give PERFORMANCE, not just looks.
mmm, wouldn't we all love that? You just forget that the Grand Am is already an excellent seller. Isn't it #1 for GM as far a sedans go? Why the hell would they want to mess with it? (damn them! :nono: )

[Vintalage]

that "#1" brings up an interesting question. Do you mean #1 for SE? Cause i don't see too many GTs on the road, at least in my area. I see a lot of Se though.

[WOLF]

but they want to keep it that way, why do you think we are getting a major change in 05. Were also going to get a convertable too.

But then, why are we comparing a car like the mazda protege that is the size and weight of a Sunfire to a car like ours. The t/ced Dodge Neon is going to kick that cars a** anyway, and where one domestic company goes, the other two are sure to go.
Heck if you wanted to, buy a new Cav. or Sunfire and drop that GM supercharger in there, a K&N air filter, and exhuast and your hitting 1/4's in the high 13's- to low 14's. How do I know that, because I did just that with a stage 2 supercharger that had me making 250+hp in my 1999 Cav. Z24 with the old, heavier 2.4L I-4. Unfortunitly I totaled that car in the rain, but that thing was a wicked little car that to many people blew off and got burned because of it.

[SpawnSF]

:thumbs: Hey guys, whoever is hating on our cars...well they forget our grocery getter cars have a sleek cool lookin' design. I just got the ram air hood, and I get compliments for the car all the time, and that included even before I had the hoold. The back looks nice, esp. on the GT's with the stock ehaust tips. Dude someone is just mad out there, they're really jealous. These cars are dope!

[Tek]

Yea these cars are dope....but i, and i hate the say this....am going import for my next car...


Like someone said, i have to drop a **** LOAD of $ into a GA for MINOR performace (hell even exterior) mods, while Jonny Lee spent $3000 and is running a fast & furiuos show car geting into low 12s

[WOLF]

Surprise me,
I can spend 3grand total on a domestic car and have it runnig low 11's.

Like I said before, if you want a race or drag car, you can easily pick one up for real cheap and keep a GA as your daily driver.

Simple as that.

[romneym]

Dag nabit. Don't get me remembering the day when I actually daily drove my '67 Camaro with a 350 that was built and could turn 12's all day long. It had a painted mural on the back pannel that had two funny cars (one Camaro with teeth chasing a cartoon bug pulling in its butt) that read "I eat BUGS"

[jaketuff]

Originally posted by WOLF
Surprise me,
I can spend 3grand total on a domestic car and have it runnig low 11's.

Like I said before, if you want a race or drag car, you can easily pick one up for real cheap and keep a GA as your daily driver.

Simple as that.

Yah, but will it get more than 8MPG ?

JOUT

[romneym]

Well, you could literally see the gas gage going down as I floored it in the 1/4 mile, or getting on the freeway. I think I averaged 8-10, but usually when racing about, try 4.

[WOLF]

I think I said a drag car for cheap, not a daily driver for cheap. Yeah the guy with the 1980 Mali. that spent a total of 3500 will make around 12-14 highway and 8-10 street and hes running 10s right now in the 1/4 mile for just 500 bucks more than what I listed.

Note that the extra 500 bucks mainly went to a set of slicks and rims for them.

The best you can do is buy a stupid civic for 1000 and find a V-tec engine somewhere and will pretty much hit your 3500 mark. Don't forget the transmission to handle to extra power and all the aftermarket crud your going to need to run in the same time zone (if thats possible hehe) as the 80 Chevy Mali. with a 350 small block.

Also note that Mazda will only be making 2000 of these blown Protege's. Divide into 50 states and your looking at only having around 40 per state. Now campare that to any onther car you can buy a GT model or high performance model of. And since there is such a limited amount of those proteges that will mean there will probably be bidding wars at some places for this car.

Now in comparision, how many Cavailer's, Sunfire's and Pontaic Grand Ams were built in 2001, and count each car model seperately. Ok, now these are the cars that have the little I-4 you can mod to the hilt. I was making around 250hp with the old 2.4L and I've seen a few newer Sunfires run in the low 13's with the 2.2L and they only spent around 18thou on thier car on avg.
My point is why chase after a car that will only have a production run of 2000cars this year to a large group of car that GM makes that use the 2.2L I-4. I know the numbers over 350,000 cars total and half would be the lighter cheaper Cav.'s and Sunfires. I've seen people buying up the little Sunfires for as cheap as 12grand. Now you have about 8grand to toy with for stereo mods and aftermarket engine upgrades to rival the Protege. I'd 6grand on engine crud will have you running low14's to high 13's easy and about 2 grand for a better stereo that would be better than the Protege's of course.

[Mike Reyna]

Originally posted by WOLF
I was making around 250hp with the old 2.4L and I've seen a few newer Sunfires run in the low 13's with the 2.2L and they only spent around 18thou on thier car on avg.


May I ask what modifications you had on your LD9? Back in 96 I did a 2.3 HO swap in my 1995 Z-24. I spent over 10,000 dollars to have that engine blue printed & balanced. Since there were hardly any parts for the engine back then, most were made custom.....some newer parts were added later.

I had:
Crate GM 2.3 Quad 4 HO - blueprinted & balanced
JE pistons 11:1 compression
mantapart cam (w-41) & gears
stainless racing valves, lifters
ported intake & heads
60 mm throttle body
titanium rods & 2.3 HO crankshaft
underdrive pulley, dry sump oil pan
I also had a RK Sport free flow cat, custom headers, custom made intake w/k&n filter, cat back exhaust, higher flow RC injectors, lower mount, & custom OBD II ECU. ( I could also rev to 8K).

My dyno was 220 hp with 195 lbs torque.

[WOLF]

The 1999 Black Z24 had the 2.4 150hp engine.

I kept the exterior "sleeper" so you couldn't ell anything had been done to it *grins*, the only giveaway was the front airfilter that was stuck in the spot where the front linsence plate goes. That and a RKSport exhauast system that I toned down so it didn't make much more noise than stock.

The cherry on the cake was the turbo. I''l get the link to the site in a bit, but it was a stage 2 trubo package that cost me around 5grand including installation. Had it dynoed and I was making 253.4hp peak. The 1/4mile times ranged anywhere from low 14's to as good as mid 13's depending to track temp. and so on.

[Blackrider]

The Mazda Speed Proro will not do a 14.9 man they do a 16.6 with the NA 2.0 there is no way 35 HP will 1.7 seconds off the 1/4 mile time

[WOLF]

That's what I've been trying to say, it does it in 15.4 second range with all the other mags. Only motortrend has reported a time of 14.9 seconds.

I bet a ton of cash what they did was give the car a tightly geared manual to where it would have good accel. numbers but a low top speed. Yup, just looked it up, its a 4:11:1 final drive ratio. Put that in a current Z06 and it would drop the 0-60 and 1/4 times by atleast .30 seconds.

If you look at alot of the import cars, they all have this, the WRX STi will only top out around 145mph and the Lancer Evo will top around 150mph. If you spaced out the gears on those cars to where it had the top speed of a current Viper or Corvette they would be alot slower because your bumping the top speed up 20-30mph.

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by Blackrider
The Mazda Speed Proro will not do a 14.9 man they do a 16.6 with the NA 2.0 there is no way 35 HP will 1.7 seconds off the 1/4 mile time

Paying with numbers doesnt = magically telling performance.

Turbo is a serious power adder, and flattens out and beefs up the torque band when the boost kicks in. BTW the 16.6 is is with a ****s poor driver, I've seen as "fast" as 16.3, so 15.0 or so I can believe with the turbo. Then there is the fact that it is has a turbo factory, so if 15.0 isn't fast enough.. spend a few bucks in mods and watch those times DROP!!!

[Blackrider]

They must have been running some mods becasue i have never seen a Proto hit anything under a 16.5 also the Proto is geared so poorly for racing thats why they are so slow. The Mazda Speed proto that ran a 14.9 was running more boost than the production one will be. It will run a low 15 only becasue the tranny was regeared

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by Blackrider
They must have been running some mods becasue i have never seen a Proto hit anything under a 16.5 also the Proto is geared so poorly for racing thats why they are so slow. The Mazda Speed proto that ran a 14.9 was running more boost than the production one will be. It will run a low 15 only becasue the tranny was regeared

Can't find it on line anywhere but the 16.5 in the motor trend article was with the base car, I know I've seen 16.3 elsewhere, also in that article they have the Elantra running a 16.5 or 16.6... that's the absolute WORST I've ever seen it run http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2111.shtml same engine/trans/weight as this car http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt1922a.shtml

[Blackrider]

My buddy has a CAI and exhaust and he couldent brake a 16.5 this summer and i knows how to drive it lol

(p.s i'm not joking he is nuts!)

[Mike3800]

You are right.

Yep... this weekend my friend and I for fun tested a 2002 Protege ES 5-speed. I'm impressed that the car mag driver's got it to actually hit 16.5 in the 1/4.

It's a nice car and handles really well, impressive handling in fact, but is pretty slow IMHO.

[GrafxWerks]

Originally posted by jaketuff
I am one of the more hardcore Grand Am enthusiasts here, but call it like it is, other manufacturers are blowing us away now. I have a GAGT with a SC, and I am just a tenth faster than this special factory edition Mazda Protege!!!
Even crazier is that they'll be within a 10th for less money and have a full warranty :(


- Ryan

[WOLF]

There are only 2000 of them and they are the size of a Sunfire.

[Blackrider]

My buddy and his lowerd 2001 es gt rip it up at auto X they handle great

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by WOLF
There are only 2000 of them and they are the size of a Sunfire.

On the outside, but passanger room on the Mazda is, at least in my opinon, much better.

[WOLF]

That's why GM needs to bust their butt and redesign that car instead of making stupid SEMA show cars that will never see production and if they do see the light of day they are crappy watered down versions of a car that could have kicked some a**. aka Grand Prix G-Force 280hp>250hp productionO_o man SLP could do that with their hands tied behind their back.

Glad to see they are atleast starting to get in gear only years behind the compition. Sorry GM but I had to diss you like that. Thank God they are bringing back the GTO, making the CTS-V, and the Z06 kicks the comp. around right now.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

I love hearing Viper fans stating how nice the new viper is etc. etc. and the Z06 is very close in performance to it even with a 100 hp and 100 ft-lb handicap, and it is only 200 lbs lighter than the SRT-10. I'm satisfied with how the Corvette performs now, all GM needs to do is improve the interior apparently and the Z06 is the most well-rounded sports car in the world for under $100,000. I can't wait for the C6 Z06, w/ what should be a small block v8 pumpin' out as much or prolly more power than the big block V10 Viper engine N/A and a completely revised interior and even more advanced suspension, etc., it should kick ass.

I think GM needs to follow the radical direction they go with the Vette for all their cars. I think the other nice thing is that if the Vette price doesn't rise too much more, and the hp incrases a lot and performance increases, etc., they will have more of an argument for producing other cars with a lot of power, as one of the bigger arguments now is that they don't want performance of other cars to come near the Vette. I think that is one of the reasons the Syclones and Typhoons were dropped so fast, they actually would perform better than the Vette's of the time until the ZR-1's came out (at a huge premium though). Pickup truck and SUV 6 bangers (albeit turbo 6 bangers :)) beating Corvettes stock to stock, that's just weird.

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by WOLF
Thank God they are bringing back the GTO, making the CTS-V, and the Z06 kicks the comp. around right now.

If they bring back a car and call it GTO it BETTER kick some serious asss for real, not a weak 300HP watered down heavy piiss poor excuse for an F-body replacment.

People will become even more irate then when they killed the great American icon Camaro and Trans Am/Firebird if they label a weak car with the letters "GTO".

As far as those $40K+ cars (caddy and Z06)... It's nice but how about getting things back to the way they were. High performance for low dollars. Example, Camaro Z28 6-speed. A damn SUPERCAR for less than 26 grand!!!

They should do an emergency quick fix. Here's how I'd do it if I ran GM car line: :D


Drop the L67 in the N body GT along with the 4T65E..., (can't make computer changes for serial data etc?..OK fire the guy and hire someone that can.) Remove the 2.2 Ecotek from the N body line and make the base engine the 3.4.

Take the GTP grab a 3.0 pulley slap it on the supercharger tune it right, ditch the 4T65E and slap the 4T80 in there and be done with it. Put the old LS1 in the Bonneville as the top model engine and base engine the L67, the new improved L67.

Kill the Aztec.

Leave the Vibe as is for now.

Next, take the base J body engine and destroy every trace of evidence that it ever exsisted, every part crushed into very small fine particles. (fun huh?) Make the base engine for the J body the 2.2 Ecotek and drop the 3.4 in the J body for the "GT" model. Make a rule that no 3.4 or 3.1 is legally to be within 20 feet of any W body. Don't raise the price one penny, it's already more pricy than even imports. Then after all these emergency model changes have been done, then work on the new models with new engines and FWD manual transmissions that can handle torque etc..

[WOLF]

Well good ideas, but I would kill the crappy Vibe and its horrible toyota engine and just restyle the darn Aztek and drop a 240+hp V-6 in there with AWD.

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by WOLF
Well good ideas, but I would kill the crappy Vibe and its horrible toyota engine and just restyle the darn Aztek and drop a 240+hp V-6 in there with AWD.

nooooo waaaayyy. I can't belive you said that. Other way around buddy. Vibe be restyled and crappy Aztek killed. The vibe doesn't look that bad anyway, especially the Vibe GXP. And at least if offers Navigation and far better style, something butt ugly aztek does not. I do not see a future in the astek at all. It was one of the worst mistakes gm made. I don't feel the vibe is like that.

[WOLF]

I would restyle the Aztek, meaning it would look better. Plus, since there will be wagon version of the Malibu and the GA might get AWD, then what the point of having that little Vibe around. The Aztek has more compition and would likely sell alot more because of the SUV craze and being completely restyled. Case in point, I see alot more of the Buick version of the Aztek than I see of the Vibe and Matrix(sp?) put together. People would rather have a V-6 200+ hp wagon Malibu over a Vibe or Matrix anyway, and I'm willing to bet on it too.

[Vintalage]

the reason you haven't seen too many vibes or matrixs is becuase it just came out. They are 2003s. The Aztek and the Buick Rendeveous came out in 2001. They have been out longer. :rolleyes:

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by Vintalage


nooooo waaaayyy. I can't belive you said that. Other way around buddy. Vibe be restyled and crappy Aztek killed. The vibe doesn't look that bad anyway, especially the Vibe GXP. And at least if offers Navigation and far better style, something butt ugly aztek does not. I do not see a future in the astek at all. It was one of the worst mistakes gm made. I don't feel the vibe is like that.

I agree, the Vibe is a better starting point. If they lowered it some more, had the 180 hp 1.8 FWD as a base and a 2.2 Ecotec Turbo AWD as the upgrade (maybe 230 hp), put on bigger tires and rims, had a nicer body design and body options and the thing would sell like hotcakes.

BTW, the 1.8 VVTLi 180 hp engine is actually done by Yamaha I believe, and the 1.8 base is by Toyota.

[Sorry_Officer]

Originally posted by Tek
Yea these cars are dope....but i, and i hate the say this....am going import for my next car...


Like someone said, i have to drop a **** LOAD of $ into a GA for MINOR performace (hell even exterior) mods, while Jonny Lee spent $3000 and is running a fast & furiuos show car geting into low 12s

The only reason you can hook up a eclipse or a integra for much less and get more results is because................THEY HAVE A AFTERMARKET, and the aftermarket they have is so big everything is much cheaper. It's like we have mexican pesos and they have U.S. currency. We right here, right now are the aftermarket for the GA. We created this, this website and very few like it have created this aftermarket for this vehicle single handedly. I remember way back in the day waiting for K&N to release the K&N drop in for our cars on this very same website. But were we patient, nope. Someone decided to look for an alternative, hence the malibu drop-in, the civic CAI, us beating down doors for body kits, exhausts, chips, dash kits, down pipes, spark plug wire sets, machine work, bigger TB's, better MAF's, TPS sensors, and the list gos on........ and that was all because of us.:cheers:

Yeah true I have dumped a $hitload of money into my car to make it look good and go fast BUT you will not see another car like mine in the area. I have people in lexus's and benz's staring at my car, and most of them I can give a run for their money on the HWY with my engine mods. It just comes down to if you are willing to shell it out, go for it, if not don't complain..........our cars were designed pretty much before the berth of the modern day street racing scene, so GM can't really do anything about it until next GEN. Which in my opinion will probably be all on my ass in my new 2004 SRT-4 Neonlol

Yeah true that import companies threw turbos and supers on cars way before the modern day street racing scene and you can see those same cars revived nowadays ruling the street scene (rx7, 300z, 3000GT, supra). But did any of those companies have a fire breathing V8 that would smoke almost anything that stood in it's way stock vs. stock?? Nope. Rx7....vs. Vette, sorry try again. 300z vs. Vette, maybe next time. Supra vs. Vette, ehh wrong answer. Each one of those cars would basically get their ass handed to them on a silver platter vs. a same year vette. BUT vet we sit here and critique a company who gave us the Buick Grand National, the Typhoon, the Cyclone, the Vette, the Trans AM, the Camaro, the GTP. Did you realize the GA in 1989 you could get with a all wheel drive turbo version?? Gm just picked the wrong time to introduce the types of vehicles and hopfully get back to the same old stuff they used to do.

I am done. My fingers hurt;)

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by WOLF
Well good ideas, but I would kill the crappy Vibe and its horrible toyota engine and just restyle the darn Aztek and drop a 240+hp V-6 in there with AWD.



One more addition to the "if I ran GM" thing.


Bring the Camaro and TA/Firebird back as an 2003.5 model redesigned with classic retro lines aerodynamic but not overdone.
Price it nearly the same as before.
Make the base Camaro with the L67 to keep the car line alive and make people happy even if they bought the base model... (talk about getting in the compact tuner car race, hell, I'd buy the base!)
Make the Z28 Camaro with the old SS LS1 specs.
And once again slap Ford in the face as usual and for the SS Camaro and WS6 TA, slap a good old supercharger on the LS1, two can play that game
:thumbs:

Then for the Vette (since it can't be slower than Camaro) Make the base Vette with the Z06 engine and for the Z06 or whatever they want to call the top Corvette, twin turbo the Z06 engine, and make Lingenfelter have an even more hot rodded car to modify to begin with.

[WOLF]

I like the idea of dropping the toyota engine for the Vibe for a Ecotec, Ecotec has already proven to be a much better engine in the first place. base model can have the normal 140hp, with a supercharged model with 225-240hp. That would make me happy, The claim on the commercials for the Toyota modle that its a SUrocket, yeah right, a Chevy "base" TrailBlazer is faster than that thing:p

Now I do wish they did everything that Mike listed, I'm all for that, but its not going to happen unfortunatly. The GM has yet to get my attention with anything, but if they come through with the LS^ 405hp, CTS-V like rumored my jaw will drop and I'm willing to say they might have some great stuff coming out. Base hp for the next Vette will remain in the 370hp area. Not bad, but not great either. The GTO is cool, but they don't want the car getting charged with the stupid gas guzzlers tax that people hate, so the hp will remain under 350hp but since its the same LS1 you can mod that thing to the 900hp mark easily. Thats already been done with Camaro's and the current C-5. Man I want to see the Firebird/Trans-Am return BUT insurence companies and import tuners won't allow that to happen even though BMW found out what a I-4 could do 20 years ago and nobody has came close since.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Yeah if the Matrix had a supercharged 2.2L Ecotec that would be awesome cuz that I4 is torqeuy too. I think if you supercharged the 1.8 high revver you would probably get about 210-215 hp max out of it,, which is kinda pathetic considering that you pay more than $3,000 for a supercharger and it only boosts ur power by 30 horses. Although you never know because the right exhaust alone was giving those babies like 10 whp gains in import magazines I was reading.

[Mike3800]

Originally posted by WOLF

Now I do wish they did everything that Mike listed, I'm all for that, but its not going to happen unfortunatly.

True. Sad, because nothing I mentioned would take any kind of brilliant engineering etc... Just very simple fixes to waste the competition.

[WOLF]

Well, even if the Mattrix had more power with the current engine it still would be a pain in the butt to drive. Dorve one around with the 180hp motor and man do you ever have to rev it to hit the sweet spot and by the time you get there you have to shift the stupid thing and the shifter itself stinks a bit compared to other manual cars I've driven. Fix the manual a bit and replace with the Ecotec unless Toyota has a better I-4 around and I would be very happy indeed.



Stinks doesn't it Mike, you could come up with a ton of cool ideas and GM won't use 1 of them, of course there were cool cars back in the day (Grand National, V-6 turbo pick-up and SUV that would spank a 454SS to everyones surpise and dropped jaws) *not to mention all the cars from the late 60's and 70's* These are still cars and trucks that some people are madly after because of the proformance and I've noticed some of those cars in mint condition actually sell for about twice what they are worth because people want them so bad and there are so few of them. The V-6 turbo was a great engine to tune and have anything with that engine run 10's in the 1/4. Just one question, why are these cars popular now instead of then or atleast that what its seems because if you had a high demand for the car or truck that would justify selling more of them and keeping it in production. Thus maybe the GN and the GMC badboy toys might still be around.