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alocaurd
09-05-2009, 11:50 AM
ok so,

i just got a message from my friend at the junkyard saying they just got a 5spd 2000 grand am in with the 4cyl in it. everything works fine except the actual tranny. i have a 2000 grand am se with the 3400 in it and i was wondering what parts i should strip off this junker for a 5 speed swap ex. clutch pedal assembly, center console etc.

thanks!

alocaurd
09-06-2009, 11:23 AM
yeah but what does everything include..

AaronGTR
09-06-2009, 01:26 PM
You'll need most of the same stuff as in this thread. http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73212

Make a list and then grab anything while you're in there that looks like it might be specific to the manual GA or might be otherwise useful. I can count the number of people with manual converted 6cyl grand ams on one hand, so you are kinda on your own here. You need to have good mechanical knowledge and a thorough understanding of what needs to be done. This is an advanced procedure. Not an easy install.

CraiGT
09-06-2009, 01:41 PM
Yeah grab everything. Except the transmission itself. It wont bolt up.

alocaurd
09-06-2009, 02:29 PM
i was trying to avoid buying the whole car if possible but it looks like it may be the best bet just in case. i saw a list somewhere else but i cant find it of trans that would work, i seem to remember a beretta trans would work?

AaronGTR
09-06-2009, 06:02 PM
Yeah grab everything. Except the transmission itself. It wont bolt up.


Uh, wrong. It will bolt up, but it wouldn't do any good since in his first post he said the tranny itself was messed up. He just needs the other parts from it.

People have done the actual swaps with that transmission, with earlier 5 speeds, and with the 6 speed from the G6 GTP. They all use the same bolt pattern. The grand am 4 cyl came with either a 5spd or a 4T40E automatic. The 4T40 uses the same trans case as the 4t45 which is with the 3400... therefore the 5spd from the 4cyl car WILL bolt to a 3400 block. ;)

The 3800 and 4T60/4T65 trans uses the same bolt pattern as well because there were W body cars you could get with 3100/3400 engines and 4T65's, and earlier GA models had 3100 engines and 4T60's. Basically there are like 6 different engines and 6 different transmissions you could use in a grand am with the right parts and enough work. Of course, only certain combo's make any sense to use.

CraiGT
09-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Uh, wrong. It will bolt up, but it wouldn't do any good since in his first post he said the tranny itself was messed up. He just needs the other parts from it.

People have done the actual swaps with that transmission, with earlier 5 speeds, and with the 6 speed from the G6 GTP. They all use the same bolt pattern. The grand am 4 cyl came with either a 5spd or a 4T40E automatic. The 4T40 uses the same trans case as the 4t45 which is with the 3400... therefore the 5spd from the 4cyl car WILL bolt to a 3400 block. ;)

Good luck with that. When he tries to bolt it up and finds out it doesnt work, Ill point the finger at you.

The LD9/Ecotec from the 99+ GrandAms are the only models that could come 5 speed. And guess what, they only fit their specific engine. It WILL NOT bolt up to a 3400. Not even the 3100, the 3800, none of those.

What WILL bolt up to the 3400 is the Cavalier/Sunfire 2.2 trans. And yes, the G6 trans from the 3900. And yes, trans from the older V6 model vehicles, but no 99+ GrandAm 5speed will bolt up to the 3400.

AaronGTR
09-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Good luck with that. When he tries to bolt it up and finds out it doesnt work, Ill point the finger at you.

The LD9/Ecotec from the 99+ GrandAms are the only models that could come 5 speed. And guess what, they only fit their specific engine. It WILL NOT bolt up to a 3400. Not even the 3100, the 3800, none of those.

What WILL bolt up to the 3400 is the Cavalier/Sunfire 2.2 trans. And yes, the G6 trans from the 3900. And yes, trans from the older V6 model vehicles, but no 99+ GrandAm 5speed will bolt up to the 3400.


Whatever. We all know the 4 cyl cars were the only ones that came from the factory with the manual... DUH. That doesn't mean they won't bolt up. :rolleyes: I guess those people who have done 5spd swaps didn't know what they were talking about then. And GM obviously doesn't either... since they used basically the SAME AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION on the 4 cylinder cars as the 6 cylinder cars... which means they will bolt to the same block. It also uses the same case bolt pattern as the earlier 282/284 trans, which was used in earlier J/N body platforms and W body platforms... which ALL used engines with the same bolt pattern! And they didn't even offer the ecotec in '99 either. They had the 2.4 until 2002 and switched to the 2.2 ecotec in 2003. You obviously haven't been around much and have no idea what you are talking about.


PS. Have you tried this yourself? If you're so sure it won't work, why don't you post up some pics or more detailed info?

O1GAGT
09-07-2009, 10:59 AM
Whatever. We all know the 4 cyl cars were the only ones that came from the factory with the manual... DUH. That doesn't mean they won't bolt up. :rolleyes: I guess those people who have done 5spd swaps didn't know what they were talking about then. And GM obviously doesn't either... since they used basically the SAME AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION on the 4 cylinder cars as the 6 cylinder cars... which means they will bolt to the same block. It also uses the same case bolt pattern as the earlier 282/284 trans, which was used in earlier J/N body platforms and W body platforms... which ALL used engines with the same bolt pattern! And they didn't even offer the ecotec in '99 either. They had the 2.4 until 2002 and switched to the 2.2 ecotec in 2003. You obviously haven't been around much and have no idea what you are talking about.


PS. Have you tried this yourself? If you're so sure it won't work, why don't you post up some pics or more detailed info?

Aaron, I hate to inform you, but Craig is correct.

The 5 speed trans out of the 2000 even if it was a working transmission would not bolt to the 3400 block as the 2.4L and Ecotec use different bell housings. A 4t40e from a 2.4L is basically the same as the 4t45e and will bolt in, but the bell housing on the 2.4L is different than a 3400 and therefore would prove to be useless if trying to mate it to the 3400 engine.

The 2.2L OHV manual trans from a cavalier would work well or a 282/284 with the V6 bell housing.

Craig never said the Ecotec was available in 99, he indicated "The LD9/Ecotec from the 99+ grand am are the only models that could come 5 speed" Meaning that in the 99+ grand am, the 5 speed was never offered with the 3400.

alocaurd
09-07-2009, 07:52 PM
now assuming i get a trans from a 2.2 cav, would the gear ratios not be off? i.e 70mph=3000rpm? the 5spd seems like it is much more cost effective but if it is going to kill fuel milage than the extra money and work for the 6spd seems more appealing

AaronGTR
09-07-2009, 08:47 PM
The 5 speed trans out of the 2000 even if it was a working transmission would not bolt to the 3400 block as the 2.4L and Ecotec use different bell housings. A 4t40e from a 2.4L is basically the same as the 4t45e and will bolt in, but the bell housing on the 2.4L is different than a 3400 and therefore would prove to be useless if trying to mate it to the 3400 engine.

How do you figure that? Since they used the automatic and the manual on the same 4 cylinder engine, and the auto is the same case as our auto, the bolt holes are in the same place so there is no reason why that manual should not bolt to our block. It should have the same holes, unless GM used a different 2.4L engine block for use with the manual, which I can't see them doing.


now assuming i get a trans from a 2.2 cav, would the gear ratios not be off? i.e 70mph=3000rpm? the 5spd seems like it is much more cost effective but if it is going to kill fuel milage than the extra money and work for the 6spd seems more appealing

Getrag F23 M86 5spd
First: 3.58
Second: 2.02
Third: 1.35
Fourth: 0.98
Fifth: 0.69
Reverse: 3.31
final drive: 3.94

Hydromatic 4T45E automatic
First: 2.957
Second: 1.623
Third: 1.000
Fourth: 0.683
Reverse: 2.143
final drive: 3.29

Those are the gear ratios. You would have quite a bit better acceleration with the manual, but yes you would be turning more engine rpm at freeway speed. Fifth gear is slightly higher than our fourth and it has a higher final drive. You might be able to change the final drive ratio though.

O1GAGT
09-07-2009, 09:07 PM
How do you figure that? Since they used the automatic and the manual on the same 4 cylinder engine, and the auto is the same case as our auto, the bolt holes are in the same place so there is no reason why that manual should not bolt to our block. It should have the same holes, unless GM used a different 2.4L engine block for use with the manual, which I can't see them doing.

How do I figure.... I know because I have done research on it in the past.
The 2.4L LD9 uses a different bell housing than the 3400 plain and simple.

See the links below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alero-Grand-Am-Malibu-2-4L-auto-transmission-31K-97-01_W0QQitemZ390019045783QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_ Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5acef25997&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-Pontiac-Grand-Am-SE-3-4L-Auto-Transmission-48K-OE_W0QQitemZ390090945231QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_ Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5ad33b72cf&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

mfuller
09-07-2009, 09:56 PM
The ratios for the F23 5-speed aren't bad at all, but the final drive is pretty steep. I think the numerically lower 3.61 FDR would be the hot ticket for the 3400.
70MPH highway cruise in 5th gear would be roughly 2300rpm.

CraiGT
09-08-2009, 01:55 AM
Damn Aaron. Over 6000 posts I thought you would have known better lol.

Although its the same auto trans for the LD9 and the 3400, the tranny case itself is a different bell housing.

Just like the 00-02 GAs with the LD9 5speed getrag trans. Same 5speed trans as the ecotecs getrag trans, but the bell housings are indeed different, and only fit their specific motor.

But dont listen to me... the n00b I guess, lmao.

AaronGTR
09-08-2009, 11:19 AM
Damn Aaron. Over 6000 posts I thought you would have known better lol.

Although its the same auto trans for the LD9 and the 3400, the tranny case itself is a different bell housing.

Just like the 00-02 GAs with the LD9 5speed getrag trans. Same 5speed trans as the ecotecs getrag trans, but the bell housings are indeed different, and only fit their specific motor.

But dont listen to me... the n00b I guess, lmao.


Well, yeah you are a noob. lol And you aren't offering any kind of evidence to corroborate your claims so... what do you expect? We'll just take what you say at face value when we have no idea if you know what you are talking about?

O1GAGT
09-08-2009, 04:55 PM
Well, yeah you are a noob. lol And you aren't offering any kind of evidence to corroborate your claims so... what do you expect? We'll just take what you say at face value when we have no idea if you know what you are talking about?

See my post above, what more evidence do you need.
Face it, Craig is correct..... admit it and move on.

CraiGT
09-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Moderator note:
Alright - no need to rub it in.

AaronGTR
09-09-2009, 11:30 AM
See my post above, what more evidence do you need.
Face it, Craig is correct..... admit it and move on.

Well if you guys want to be pissy about it... you're both still technically wrong because you can make an adapter plate for the bell housing and a spacer for the flywheel and it will work. I've seen it done on other cars so I know it can be done. It's just that in this case it's cheaper and easier to just use one of the other transmissions.

CraiGT
09-09-2009, 12:07 PM
Well if you guys want to be pissy about it... you're both still technically wrong because you can make an adapter plate for the bell housing and a spacer for the flywheel and it will work. I've seen it done on other cars so I know it can be done. It's just that in this case it's cheaper and easier to just use one of the other transmissions.

Are you kidding me? You just defined a prime example of something NOT bolting up. Stop trying to feel like you were not wrong.

Oh and a note to mfuller for editing my post. I didnt mean for it to be taken literal. I meant it as a joke otherwise I wouldnt have called myself n00b. Maybe I should have clarified better. My bad.

I would just like Aaron to ADMIT he learned something new. :slayer

AaronGTR
09-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Are you kidding me? You just defined a prime example of something NOT bolting up. Stop trying to feel like you were not wrong.

Oh and a note to mfuller for editing my post. I didnt mean for it to be taken literal. I meant it as a joke otherwise I wouldnt have called myself n00b. Maybe I should have clarified better. My bad.

I would just like Aaron to ADMIT he learned something new. :slayer


:rolleyes: ghey... ok I learned something new.

O1GAGT
09-09-2009, 07:47 PM
Well if you guys want to be pissy about it... you're both still technically wrong because you can make an adapter plate for the bell housing and a spacer for the flywheel and it will work. I've seen it done on other cars so I know it can be done. It's just that in this case it's cheaper and easier to just use one of the other transmissions.

No one ever said an adapter plate couldn't be made, so where did that come from. The point is a 2.4L has a different bell housing than a 3.4L. :horse:

Why is it that in every post where someone questions your thinking or even shows you that you are incorrect, you dig a bigger hole to attempt to make yourself look like you are right.

:rolleyes: ghey... ok I learned something new.
Despite the smiles, I am glad you are willing to admit that you learned something new. Seriously, let down your guard and try to look at things from a different perspective and try to learn something new every day. If you did, I think you would have a whole new perspective on things.