installing supercharger creates insane wiring problem! [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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2000GAGT
03-01-2010, 11:25 PM
does anyone have any idea what would do this...

So i mounted in a vortech v9-g but did not hook up any oil lines or connect it to the belt system due to time. The car ran fine for about 30 mins til i was driving home and all the gauges stopped working.

rpm, mph, temp, and fuel gauges all stopped working and the low fuel light came on. then the airbag light came on too.

The only things i changed was unplugging the fan on the drivers side of the radiator and relocated the battery in the trunk. I thought maybe it had something to do with the batteries ground and maybe causing something because when you turn the key to ACC everything works, then when turned to ON lights turn on but when you attempt START nothing happens, no clicks or nothing. Tried jumping it but same condidtion so i dont think it the battery.

Anyone every experience what could cause something like this condition? im wondering if when i put the charger in i smashed some wires and they got unplugged or maybe got to the close to the manifold and burned something.


any help greatly appreciated!!

2000GAGT
03-02-2010, 12:21 AM
i also noticed when using my turn signal for right turns its blinking fast but not for the left. could that be part of this wiring problem? anyone every seen something like this maybe any ideas on what else i should check or test?

XtremeGaGt00
03-02-2010, 05:44 AM
i think iif i remember correctly i had this problem too and it was a ground problem, try looking at the lil black box thats mounted on the driver side in the engine bay bolted to the body of the car by like where the airbox would be...

KhellendrosxS
03-02-2010, 05:53 AM
You have some sort of electrical gremlin. With your battery run to the trunk what gauge wire did you use and are you sure you hooked it up to the alternator?

I would upgrade your wiring to at least 4GA coming from the alternator and at least 1GA fused going to the battery.

I had a similar issue with my car when the fuseable link burned out and the alternator no longer was able to charge the battery. The resistance in the cables finally toasted it.


On an unrelated not, was this the beat up supercharger that went up on ebay last week? You need to leave that belt off until you have located a proper tuner and put the MAF back in the air stream or its going to go boom. The PCM you got is not tuned and just has the MAF function turned off to make the car run pig rich. Your transmission will also go banging into gear and eat itself in short order.

2000GAGT
03-02-2010, 09:12 AM
you are correct this is the charger from ebay last week! lol and yes im aware of the pcm tuning and the fact i need my MAF, thats why its not hooked up yet. I've already replaced my transmission once by myself and im not planning on doing it again any time soon.

i am running 1GA wire from the trunk strait to the original connectors under the hood for positive. I use to have the battery in the trunk years ago for about a year so i would hope its still ok this way. I was thinking it could be the ground wire because before i use to have it to a bolt i drilled going underneath the trunk above the muffler. Now its on a bolt i drilled that is underneath the carpet but it on a piece of metal not going to the outside world. And that ground wire is only like 8GA or something its a lot smaller than the power wire.

I thought if it was the ground wire causing this would i be able to diagnosis it by attempting to jump the car? I tried to last night but same results.

It seems like all the sensors have gone crazy and are not getting a signal. I have a jet module also hooked up but only the wire tapped into the TPS (i use to use it like 5 years ago but now i just like to watch the pretty light show for throttle %) and when i turn the key to ON all the car gauges don't work and this module has all the bars lighting up like im holding the throttle down! like its not getting a signal and not showing the voltage resistance or something.

Thats why i was thinking it was a big group of wires that something happened when i placed the charger in the car because it does kinda not fit the greatest and seems to rest against everything. but is it possible for these conditions if the battery is not supplying the correct power and a jump start will not correct it? its very strange to me

2000GAGT
03-02-2010, 09:19 AM
if it helps the battery/alt/starter were all replaced within the last two months so they are pretty new.

I have a questions, there are two ground wires screwed to the front drivers side of the frame right by the headlight close to the coolant hose by the radiator, the top one came from the original battery ground terminal, where does the bottom wire go?

burgett2103
03-02-2010, 10:01 AM
i mounted 2 batteries in my trunk a few months ago. if i remember correctly, i ran the battery negative all the way back, the alternator power all the way back, and the battery positive all the way back and grounded each battery in the trunk. i believe that other negative your talking about comes from your fuse box, which also needs to be connected to the battery.

SSRacer
03-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Sounds like it could just be a ground issue. A bad ground can do funny things to the electronics in cars these days.

Mattyj724
03-02-2010, 10:35 AM
to address the turn signal, that happens when one of your turn signal bulbs is out/ not recieving charge.. so turn the one that blinks fast on and look at the front and back, i bet one is not working. sounds like you have a wiring mess, i wouldn;t blame it on the SC though. i agree that it is a Ground issue, you said you used a different ground this time right?? with a smaller wire? i would start there. if you had you batt in the trunk before and it worked, then i would use that same setup with the bigger wire mounted to that same ground as before. thats your best bet, do what you know works instead of recreating the wheel. i would love to see some pics of the SC, iv been looking at the vortechs and wondered how they fit.

KhellendrosxS
03-02-2010, 10:37 AM
If you can get the car to start youll need to take a DMM to the posts on the battery and make sure the alternator is capable of charging it. I would suspect that your stock alternator wire is suffering from a voltage drop trying to get the charge to the trunk. Also, keep your ground wire short. Mine is 1GA behind the carpet on the drivers side beside the monsoon amp drilled straight into the sheet metal after removing the paint of course.

Remember that each time a battery is drained it looses about 10% of its capacity each time it is recharged. Do this enough and it wont hold a charge no matter what you do.

Youll also want to be sure its a sealed type of battery like an optima. You dont want the fumes from a non sealed battery getting in the car.

Lab Rat
03-02-2010, 10:58 AM
if it helps the battery/alt/starter were all replaced within the last two months so they are pretty new.

I have a questions, there are two ground wires screwed to the front drivers side of the frame right by the headlight close to the coolant hose by the radiator, the top one came from the original battery ground terminal, where does the bottom wire go?


That wire is connected to the motor block.

2000GAGT
03-02-2010, 11:08 AM
thanks everyone for the responses!

i'll try the battery ground first and use a bigger wire in a different spot. I guess and easy diagnosis would be when im attaching the negative to the battery and there is little or no spark, that means i have a weak enough connection and could lead to a retarded electrical system??
Does it also make sense then if im trying to jump my car and the battery has a bad negative connections, attempting to jump it wont make a difference?

I just thought it was weird after mounting the charger the car started and ran the first time but now nothing.

I did check the black box on the drivers side of the frame that is connected.

So that one wire by the drivers side headlight is a ground that connects the engine to the frame? I pulled on it and noticed the ring connector on the other end was not attached to anything! I did put in an LX9 3.5L engine last spring and this may have been disconnected since then but im curious where it goes and if it could be related.

thanks again everyone!

Mattyj724
03-02-2010, 04:47 PM
I did put in an LX9 3.5L engine last spring and this may have been disconnected since then but im curious where it goes and if it could be related.

thanks again everyone!

Should have mentioned that before, but i think your on the right track with the bigger Ground and shorter cable

2000GAGT
03-03-2010, 04:14 PM
sooo...

the ground wire was a 4GA, i relocated it to the old spot that goes through the trunk above the muffler. same results, every acc and light turns on but when it turn it to ON, no fuel pump engaging and no starter when turning to START. after pulling the key for a seconds you could hear a few quick clicks from around the fuse box.

went under the hood and found that one wire (the lower one) that connects to the frame by the headlight, thought maybe this need to be grounding so rested it against the threads on a bolt connecting the engine/tranny.

This time the ON position engages the fuel pump! so i think yes!, i go back under the hood and fully connect this wire to the bolt. Now when i attempt to start the car it doesnt as im holding the key you can hear a bunch of fast clicking sound coming from the fuse box (different pattern compared to the last attempts).

I think ok lets try to jump it again...this time it fires up!! i let it run for a little bit then turn it off and it does turn on again. im still going to test to make sure the ALT is working when i have time.

Does this make any sense based of the conditions? it doesnt make any sense to me maybe i just dont understand car electronics or they are that confusing.

Anything else i just test since i got it to start?

2000GAGT
03-09-2010, 06:10 PM
Everything has been working fine now, I just had a unique ground condition after an engine swap after removing the original battery grounds. But it's good to know from expirence a bad ground connection can cause so many random electrical conditions. This was Also responsible for the fast blinking turn signal which was not a blow bulb like expected.

Mattyj724
03-09-2010, 06:22 PM
well im glad you got that straighted out. did you have to make special mounts for the V-9 S/C?? iv been emailing vortech about what systems will fit our car.. but nothing back. maybe a stupid question

2000GAGT
03-10-2010, 01:46 AM
No I did not have to make special mounts for the s/c but I did have to use some washers to get the belt to line up. Your right about vortech, I don't think they list anything about grand ams on their website. I looked once and found nothing so not sure if they make the mounting brackets or if someone else does. I just remember this charger is designed for "compact and gm fwd"

Mattyj724
03-10-2010, 09:42 AM
Thanks,

2000GAGT
04-10-2010, 11:30 PM
Finally got this thing in and running. Seems to be pretty loud; does anyone know if these things are normally quite loud or would something be wrong? It's got a loud whistle at idle but sounds really strong like an old muscle car with a blower

ganut
04-11-2010, 09:08 AM
does it sound like a pissed off weasel? lol

WHen I had the s/c on the 4cyl it was pretty loud at idle. I miss that sound actually. I've been looking into putting a vortech on my hemi charger.

I wanna see pics though.

2000GAGT
04-11-2010, 09:16 AM
Yes it does sound like a pissed off weasel lol i'm an optimisic peson but it makes me want to thong there is something seriously wrong and no oil flow or something messed up inside

O1GAGT
04-11-2010, 11:41 AM
Yes it does sound like a pissed off weasel lol i'm an optimisic peson but it makes me want to thong there is something seriously wrong and no oil flow or something messed up inside

I would keep an eye on the driveshaft.... every one of those kits that I have seen has had a driveshaft failure.

When you add everything up you will see why the RSM/Z-Spec kit will fail:

The biggest problem is that the bearing is not pressed onto the drive shaft and the shaft spins inside the bearing. The other major flaw is that RSM only utilizes one 1630 series bearing, which is rated at a max of 6,000 RPM. When you do the math to determine how fast the pulley is spinning you will see that the supercharger pulley is spinning nearly two and a half times faster than the speed rating of the bearing.

Mathematical Calculations:
Crank pulley = 6.5"
RSM supercharger pulley = 2.5"
Shift Point = 5,600 RPM

5600 RPM X 6.5 =36,400
36,400 / 2.5 = 14,560

14,560 RPM is the speed that the supercharger pulley is spinning when the engine is at 5,600 RPM... remember the bearing is rated to 6,000 RPM! This combined with the fact that there is no flex coupling on the drive shaft, and the shaft is not balanced gives cause for catastrophic failure.

2000GAGT
04-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Yay. Plus my cars shift point is at 6k so that can't be good. Well I was curious to what these things normally sound like because it sounds pissed off. It's got a loud whistle and just sounds anger. I get lots of stares, it really sounds like a 60s car with a loud whistling charger but i didn't think this would be so loud. Anyone out there ever have these and know what I mean

2000GAGT
06-23-2010, 03:05 PM
so just an update,

i've put about 1.5k miles on the supercharger with no problems. im going to get a new bearing just in case and a smaller pulley. At the moment i can rev it from neutral and hit 8 psi, boost 6 psi in second, and hit about 4 psi in third gear.

solutions_auto
06-23-2010, 04:30 PM
8psi in neutral????? you shouldnt build boost in neutral

2000GAGT
06-25-2010, 05:45 PM
Oh no sorry I meant if I rev it in neutral.

2000GAGT
06-25-2010, 05:50 PM
I've decided to go with an intercooler before a smaller pulley. Did some data logging today and maxed 162 degrees for the in coming air. Cooled off to about 115 coasting and sits at about 90 degrees at a stop light. Can anyone tell me if that sounds average or too high with boost?