S&S Headers Issue [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

PDA

View Full Version : S&S Headers Issue


G.I.Ceo
07-30-2010, 09:44 PM
I just bought a pair of long tubed S&S headers and it just dawned on me that the catalytic converter won't attach because it is to long and the end it not the same. Anyone ran into this problem or know what to do? Car is all apart and I can't reinstall my catalytic converter to my rear header now.

AleroB888
07-30-2010, 10:40 PM
I just bought a pair of long tubed S&S headers and it just dawned on me that the catalytic converter won't attach because it is to long and the end it not the same. Anyone ran into this problem or know what to do? Car is all apart and I can't reinstall my catalytic converter to my rear header now.

Which catalytic converter are you using?

G.I.Ceo
07-30-2010, 10:42 PM
Which catalytic converter are you using?
I am using the downpipe with cat from Milzy's Motorsports. I have the first one that he ever made and the ends are different and the new header is a whole lot longer.

iceman
07-30-2010, 10:49 PM
Sounds like a trip to the custom exhaust shop if you ask me

AleroB888
07-30-2010, 11:02 PM
I am using the downpipe with cat from Milzy's Motorsports. I had the first one that he ever made and the ends are different and the new header is a whole lot longer.

The CAT has to be mounted at the stock location to pass emissions. Other than that, the general rule is to go from smaller diameter tubing into larger tubing, but never back into a smaller diameter. So that downpipe w/cat was not made for a stock setup, apparently, since the S&S is....

stewartfn18
07-30-2010, 11:09 PM
if your headers dont have the dp with cat, you have to get a custom dp made

GA2000GTSpeed
07-31-2010, 02:20 AM
when you buy the S&S header new they come with a down pipe and high flow cat. if you don't have that one you will more then likely have to go to an exhaust shop to weld in the cat and flex tubing.

Mattyj724
07-31-2010, 08:55 AM
The SS headers wont match up to the stock downpide and cat??? ****

stewartfn18
07-31-2010, 09:17 AM
no they will not

stewartfn18
07-31-2010, 09:18 AM
when you buy the S&S header new they come with a down pipe and high flow cat. if you don't have that one you will more then likely have to go to an exhaust shop to weld in the cat and flex tubing.

actually you had an option when buying. you could either buy the headers with dp and cat, or your could buy just the headers with the flex and then a dp had to be custom made

AaronGTR
07-31-2010, 09:38 AM
I am using the downpipe with cat from Milzy's Motorsports. I have the first one that he ever made and the ends are different and the new header is a whole lot longer.

Yeah, that's your problem. The DP/cat from Milzy was designed as a replacement for the stock unit and bolts up to the stock manifolds way up by the engine. The rear header pipes are designed to basically replace all that. They are supposed to connect to the exhaust down by the floor of the car. You didn't research compatibility before you bought them?

The SS headers wont match up to the stock downpide and cat??? ****

Duh, no. The header outlet is 2.5" and the stock DP/cat/exhaust is 2.25". It's usually assumed that anyone dishing out the money for headers has already put a 2.5" exhaust on the car, or is going to do it at the same time.


OP... S&S had the option of buying a section with a high flow cat pre-made that bolted up to the headers. Without it you have to make your own. It's not hard. Just need a flange to bolt up to the headers, a short 30 degree bend, a piece of flex pipe, and a high flow cat. Then another short piece of straight pipe and flange to connect to the rest of your exhaust. And if you don't have a 2.5" exhaust, well.... you better think about getting one. Should have had it before buying headers. :nono:

G.I.Ceo
07-31-2010, 09:58 AM
I bought these from a guy that was selling the headers here on the forum. He did not have the cat just the headers. So I am going to take my cat from Milzy have it cut back and have a new flex flange welded on. Just wasn't something that dawned on me at the time. Gotta love projects.

G.I.Ceo
07-31-2010, 11:26 AM
I am on my way to take my down pipe to a shop to be cut and re-welded with the right flange. Wish me luck.

Mattyj724
07-31-2010, 01:17 PM
I bought these from a guy that was selling the headers here on the forum. He did not have the cat just the headers. So I am going to take my cat from Milzy have it cut back and have a new flex flange welded on. Just wasn't something that dawned on me at the time. Gotta love projects.

in the same spot. bought the headers from a guy on here.. i have a 2.5 exhaust from cat back but didnt think about the downpipe and cat.. Thanks tho.

G.I.Ceo
07-31-2010, 02:00 PM
in the same spot. bought the headers from a guy on here.. i have a 2.5 exhaust from cat back but didnt think about the downpipe and cat.. Thanks tho.
I took mine to a custom exhaust shop and they are going to build to fit. He said it will cost me less then $75. I will have all back up and running in a hour or so Monday. I would just call around and tell them you situation and someone can take care of it.

Mattyj724
08-01-2010, 10:38 AM
did you put the headers on your self and then take it there to fit the DP and CAT?

G.I.Ceo
08-01-2010, 11:37 AM
did you put the headers on your self and then take it there to fit the DP and CAT?
Yeah I installed them myself and then I am taking it there tomorrow to have the pipe cut to fit. So right now it is straight headers until tomorrow. I will tell you when the guy at the shop seen the headers he about freaked and didn't think they would fit. But it's all done. Was not a easy project at all but well worth doing.

burgett2103
08-01-2010, 03:57 PM
good job in getting it all done, man.

G.I.Ceo
08-01-2010, 07:17 PM
good job in getting it all done, man.

Thanks. It sure was al ot of work but I like to do things on my own because it gives me pride in it.

G.I.Ceo
08-02-2010, 04:32 PM
So I get the headers done and the pipe cut to fit. Now the car bangs the exhaust when you put it into reverse. They made these headers too long and it now causes a problem. If I would have known all of this I probably never would have installed them.

Mac0083
08-02-2010, 04:37 PM
i dont know for sure what the bang is, but when i started tampering with my exhaust, i unknowingly pushed the pipe higher, and it was hitting a heat shield near the back, just in front of the rear axle crossover. it made a weird clanking metal on metal sound when i put it in gear or reverse.

it was an easy fix!

try to figure out where it's coming from. when the pipes are cool enough to touch, get under the car and shake the pipes, side to side, front to back...

might not be a big deal

G.I.Ceo
08-02-2010, 05:04 PM
i dont know for sure what the bang is, but when i started tampering with my exhaust, i unknowingly pushed the pipe higher, and it was hitting a heat shield near the back, just in front of the rear axle crossover. it made a weird clanking metal on metal sound when i put it in gear or reverse.

it was an easy fix!

try to figure out where it's coming from. when the pipes are cool enough to touch, get under the car and shake the pipes, side to side, front to back...

might not be a big deal

Did you have to tune your PCM when you installed the headers. Mine for some reason now is shifting funny but I was really low on coolant. Also when I put this in reverse is when I get the bang. The rear header flange when I installed it was touching the bottom of my car so I think it doesn't have enough room for the flex of the car. Also when the guy cut the DP to fit he did move it up some, so maybe he moved it up to much and is causing that rattle. That rattle is exactly were yours was at. Any suggestions on what to do? This was a lot of work and I can't think anymore.

AaronGTR
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
The headers aren't causing the problem. No one else has had that issue with them. It was probably the shop that connected it to the rest of your exhaust. They probably made it too long/short/high or whatever they did, they didn't check to see where it was positioning the rest of the exhaust and now it's hitting something when your engine shifts. Solution... get the length adjusted, get a stiffer engine mount, tie the exhaust up with some aluminum wire... whatever you wanna try. :thumbs: But it's not the headers fault...


Oh, and no the headers do not require a tune. You might gain a little more power from a tune, but it will run fine without it.

G.I.Ceo
08-02-2010, 08:30 PM
The headers aren't causing the problem. No one else has had that issue with them. It was probably the shop that connected it to the rest of your exhaust. They probably made it too long/short/high or whatever they did, they didn't check to see where it was positioning the rest of the exhaust and now it's hitting something when your engine shifts. Solution... get the length adjusted, get a stiffer engine mount, tie the exhaust up with some aluminum wire... whatever you wanna try. :thumbs: But it's not the headers fault...


Oh, and no the headers do not require a tune. You might gain a little more power from a tune, but it will run fine without it.I'm the one that installed the headers and I can only think that I tightened the connecting pipes next to the thermostat to tight. I am going to try and loosen them and see if it lowers the rear header. Other then that I don't know what else to do. As far as the rattle on the back I know what caused that and I think the shop made one of the pipes to tight to the rear flange to connect it to the cat. Also can having way to low of coolant cause my tranni to act funny? I did not have enough in the system after refilling it.

Mac0083
08-03-2010, 04:08 AM
i cant remember, do you have the borla cat back? i hink you do, so here is what i did. my borla has a sleeve type of connector near the back, a slip on fitting, where the piece with the resonator connects to the piece that goes over the rear axle. loosen that clamp, spray that joint with wd40, and wiggle it and it should lower the section that is making the rattle noise. it actually moved up and down quite easily.

i think that will solve the noise coming from the back, hitting the heat shield.

don't know what the problem is with your headers/downpipe/rear flange.

take pics, it's hard to understand.

G.I.Ceo
08-03-2010, 08:43 AM
i cant remember, do you have the borla cat back? i hink you do, so here is what i did. my borla has a sleeve type of connector near the back, a slip on fitting, where the piece with the resonator connects to the piece that goes over the rear axle. loosen that clamp, spray that joint with wd40, and wiggle it and it should lower the section that is making the rattle noise. it actually moved up and down quite easily.

i think that will solve the noise coming from the back, hitting the heat shield.

don't know what the problem is with your headers/downpipe/rear flange.

take pics, it's hard to understand.I'll do my best to try and get a pic up in the next couple of days. Right now I don't even feel like going to mess with that car after as many hours as I put into it. I am really upset that now I am having multiple problems for no reasons.

The cat back has no muffler and it is just the pipe but it is a 2.25. Now I know it should be a 2.5 and I am working on getting it built. The weird thing about all of this is that my car with stock headers and 2.5 down pipe was louder then it is now with the headers attached too. Figure that one out. Is it possible that the 2.25 is choking the exhaust flow off at the cat back pipe and that's why it's muffled and the pipe is shaking real bad?

Mac0083
08-03-2010, 10:49 AM
if you've got headers now, it should definitely be louder at least. if you have no muffler, then the only thing that could be hushing the exhaust would be the CAT. you did a high-flow cat, right? the 2.50 to 2.25 ain't great, but it's not going to quiet things.

and about the pipe shaking noise, is it only for a second or two when putting into gear, or is it constant? mine shook for a second when going into gear but then stopped, or if i hit a road bump to shake the pipe. it only made noise for a second.


i know how frustrating it all is. trust me!
but take it all in as a learning experience. how often do you get to change the sound of your car? even if it takes a few weeks to sort things out, you know deep down inside that it will be worth it. this is your chance to shine. enjoy it

G.I.Ceo
08-03-2010, 11:02 AM
if you've got headers now, it should definitely be louder at least. if you have no muffler, then the only thing that could be hushing the exhaust would be the CAT. you did a high-flow cat, right? the 2.50 to 2.25 ain't great, but it's not going to quiet things.

and about the pipe shaking noise, is it only for a second or two when putting into gear, or is it constant? mine shook for a second when going into gear but then stopped, or if i hit a road bump to shake the pipe. it only made noise for a second.


i know how frustrating it all is. trust me!
but take it all in as a learning experience. how often do you get to change the sound of your car? even if it takes a few weeks to sort things out, you know deep down inside that it will be worth it. this is your chance to shine. enjoy it Very true and this was all done by me and I am proud of my work. It's nice to have support and talk to people who have been threw the same stuff because not everyone knows how frustrating it is.

I did find the rattle and it the pipe that is going over my rear suspension so I know how to fix that so hopefully soon the problem will be solved.

Now if I can get the shifting thing under control. I am going to try a crank relearn and see it that does it because of the amount of sensors I unplugged and the amount of stuff I took off the car.

Wish me luck.

MMGT1
08-03-2010, 12:04 PM
I have the S&S in as well, and have a custom 2.5" exhaust going to a SLP SS Camaro Loudmouth. I had all kinds of problems getting the "over the control arm" ironed out. I ended up having to remove a small piece of metal from the bumper, under the cover, so I could raise the pipe enough coming over the control arm to not rattle. This was a 3 year affair to get mine to stop the rattle, so hope you get this one fixed quick. I know all too well how nasty this problem is.
Side note: Your exhaust touching the body at any point, allowing a rattle or excessive vibration to travel through the exhaust, can effect timing as well. The VCM can pick up "false knock" under these circumstances and it will pull timing, having a negative effect on your HP and tq!

G.I.Ceo
08-03-2010, 12:32 PM
I have the S&S in as well, and have a custom 2.5" exhaust going to a SLP SS Camaro Loudmouth. I had all kinds of problems getting the "over the control arm" ironed out. I ended up having to remove a small piece of metal from the bumper, under the cover, so I could raise the pipe enough coming over the control arm to not rattle. This was a 3 year affair to get mine to stop the rattle, so hope you get this one fixed quick. I know all too well how nasty this problem is.
Side note: Your exhaust touching the body at any point, allowing a rattle or excessive vibration to travel through the exhaust, can effect timing as well. The VCM can pick up "false knock" under these circumstances and it will pull timing, having a negative effect on your HP and tq!So any idea how to get the header flange from not touching the body of my car? That's exactly the problem I have too.

AaronGTR
08-03-2010, 03:22 PM
I have the S&S in as well, and have a custom 2.5" exhaust going to a SLP SS Camaro Loudmouth. I had all kinds of problems getting the "over the control arm" ironed out. I ended up having to remove a small piece of metal from the bumper, under the cover, so I could raise the pipe enough coming over the control arm to not rattle. This was a 3 year affair to get mine to stop the rattle, so hope you get this one fixed quick. I know all too well how nasty this problem is.
Side note: Your exhaust touching the body at any point, allowing a rattle or excessive vibration to travel through the exhaust, can effect timing as well. The VCM can pick up "false knock" under these circumstances and it will pull timing, having a negative effect on your HP and tq!


That is not true. There is a flex pipe attachment on the headers that would absorb anything like that, but more importantly the headers would not transmit the same frequency as knock nor at a high enough level to activate the knock sensor. The knock sensor is screwed in to the engine block and only looks for a specific frequency caused by detonation. It won't be set off by any regular little old bang or vibration.

G.I.Ceo
08-04-2010, 02:06 PM
So I am still having problem with when my car shifts it slams into gear hard. It never did this before I installed the headers. It did it when I drove it to the shop too with it just the straight headers and no exhaust attached to it at all. Is it possible that the engine mount is so weak that I just noticed it when I changed the headers or possibly tranni mount as well? I am lost on what to do. I am going to try and post pictures of how close it is to my bottom of my car tomorrow. I have the rattle figured out but when you put it into park or reverse it slams the tranni, especially big time when put into drive.

MMGT1
08-04-2010, 02:41 PM
Check the MAF. It may not be pluged in or may have pinched a wire causing SD mode

G.I.Ceo
08-04-2010, 02:49 PM
Check the MAF. It may not be pluged in or may have pinched a wire causing SD modeWhat about the sensor that is attached to the UIM? The one that looks like a black rectangle box.

MMGT1
08-04-2010, 02:54 PM
at the side just behind the TB or the one on the in front of your coil packs? I am pretty sure the one beside the TB is do do with PCV and the one on the back is your MAP sensor... Aaron?? The one beside the TB... ?

G.I.Ceo
08-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Yheat the side just behind the TB or the one on the in front of your coil packs? I am pretty sure the one beside the TB is do do with PCV and the one on the back is your MAP sensor... Aaron?? The one beside the TB... ?

Yeah its the one between the manifold and coil pack. I am going to get this scanned because it is throwing my SES light and I can't get it shut off. It did give me that when I put the dp on but I could get the SES light reset. Now it just stays on all the time. Never thought about checking for a code problem. Could a code problem/sensor problem cause the tranni to slam into gear?

Grandamgtblk99
08-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes, a couple sensors can cause that. The MAF was already mentioned and the intake air temp sensor can too. Just take it to Auto Zone and get the code read, instead of guessing what your problem is.

AaronGTR
08-04-2010, 07:25 PM
Yhe

Yeah its the one between the manifold and coil pack. I am going to get this scanned because it is throwing my SES light and I can't get it shut off. It did give me that when I put the dp on but I could get the SES light reset. Now it just stays on all the time. Never thought about checking for a code problem. Could a code problem/sensor problem cause the tranni to slam into gear?

The sensor you are talking about is the MAP sensor. That will not cause the tranny to shift hard, but a MAF sensor problem will. The PCM uses the MAF to determine engine load as well as fuel enrichment. If you are getting a check engine light, then obviously you need to get the code checked. That will tell you a lot more than us just throwing out guesses.

G.I.Ceo
08-04-2010, 08:11 PM
The sensor you are talking about is the MAP sensor. That will not cause the tranny to shift hard, but a MAF sensor problem will. The PCM uses the MAF to determine engine load as well as fuel enrichment. If you are getting a check engine light, then obviously you need to get the code checked. That will tell you a lot more than us just throwing out guesses.
You know what that totally makes sense. When I had that taken off my car a got something on the sensor and told myself that might cause a problem. I am going to take it off and try to clean it if possible. If that doesn't work then I will go have the code read and go from there.

Thank you all for giving me ideas and helping me troubleshoot this thing.

AleroB888
08-04-2010, 09:42 PM
That is not true. There is a flex pipe attachment on the headers that would absorb anything like that, but more importantly the headers would not transmit the same frequency as knock nor at a high enough level to activate the knock sensor. The knock sensor is screwed in to the engine block and only looks for a specific frequency caused by detonation. It won't be set off by any regular little old bang or vibration.

I'm not so sure about that, I got a lot of false knock going, between having the TOG's (which aren't sealed all that good on mine) and the Magnuson forming a little echo chamber in there. I believe the sensitivity on those devices is higher than it needs to be, even for stock...

just my $.02

G.I.Ceo
08-05-2010, 02:53 PM
Well I got my code off when I cleaned my MAF sensor and i am still having the tranni slam when I put it into drive.

When I installed the header's I took off the UIM, fuel rail, injectors, injector harness, CAI, throttle body, EGR valve etc...

I just can't stop the tranni from slamming when I put it into drive and it never did that before I installed the headers. Is it possible something is not wired right, not plugged in right? I did have a problem with my fuel rail leaking fuel but I think I got that figured out.

GA2000GTSpeed
08-05-2010, 03:27 PM
So have you ever had your codes ran? it still sounds like the MAF still isn't working or isn't working right. every time my trans has shifted really hard if from the MAF sensor either being bad or not plugged in.

AaronGTR
08-05-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm not so sure about that, I got a lot of false knock going, between having the TOG's (which aren't sealed all that good on mine) and the Magnuson forming a little echo chamber in there. I believe the sensitivity on those devices is higher than it needs to be, even for stock...

just my $.02

Well, I'm pretty sure about it. I've read up on the operation of the knock sensor online and in the manual so I know how it works, and I've tested it myself. I've gotten knock while driving so I know it's functioning, then tried banging on the exhaust, headers, and the engine itself with all kinds of tools while someone watched the knock sensor.... and it never reacted AT ALL. ;)

G.I.Ceo
08-05-2010, 03:43 PM
So have you ever had your codes ran? it still sounds like the MAF still isn't working or isn't working right. every time my trans has shifted really hard if from the MAF sensor either being bad or not plugged in. Well it's plugged in and I cleaned it last night and plugged it back in and same result. Can you scan a code without the SES light on? And no I have not had it scanned yet.

AaronGTR
08-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Yeah, just unplugging the pcm to clear the code isn't really helping anything. You need to know what that code is to have some idea where the problem is coming from. Take it to an auto parts store and ask them if they have a code scanner you can use. Most will do it for free. Even if the code has been cleared and the SES light is off, it usually still saves the code in the history for a while.

G.I.Ceo
08-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Yeah, just unplugging the pcm to clear the code isn't really helping anything. You need to know what that code is to have some idea where the problem is coming from. Take it to an auto parts store and ask them if they have a code scanner you can use. Most will do it for free. Even if the code has been cleared and the SES light is off, it usually still saves the code in the history for a while.O.k cool I will do that tomorrow.

AleroB888
08-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure about it. I've read up on the operation of the knock sensor online and in the manual so I know how it works, and I've tested it myself. I've gotten knock while driving so I know it's functioning, then tried banging on the exhaust, headers, and the engine itself with all kinds of tools while someone watched the knock sensor.... and it never reacted AT ALL. ;)

And in my case, if I don't make a certain "modification" to the knock sensor circuit/setup, the thing will go to max KR for anything above 2500 rpm @ WOT, and put out almost lower power than stock.....

Probably applies only to my car, but what I'm saying is, don't rule it out.

G.I.Ceo
09-01-2010, 04:10 PM
O.K I forgot to post what I found out. The car threw the code P0107 which was a low voltage MAP sensor. I have yet tried to rewire this or to see if I pulled a wire when I was reinstalling it. Is it possible I may have a pulled wire or a dead sensor?

stewartfn18
09-01-2010, 07:16 PM
O.K I forgot to post what I found out. The car threw the code P0107 which was a low voltage MAP sensor. I have yet tried to rewire this or to see if I pulled a wire when I was reinstalling it. Is it possible I may have a pulled wire or a dead sensor?

loose wire

G.I.Ceo
09-01-2010, 07:39 PM
loose wire Well I will pull the intake off tomorrow to get at it. I had to do that anyways to fix a small leak on the fuel rail. I just hope it doesn't turn in to a huge thing again. I have but a ton of work into it and have yet to be able to drive it because of that sensor.

G.I.Ceo
09-12-2010, 12:34 PM
Well I got the issue fixed. The problem was the map sensor had a short in the harness and was messing everything up.

roadie
03-22-2011, 01:48 PM
what did you have to do to fix the short you were having? just plug it in more carefully? or?

G.I.Ceo
03-22-2011, 02:10 PM
I pulled a wire out of the harness. I cut out the short and soldered a new wire in were I pulled it apart and it fixed it right away.

roadie
03-31-2011, 03:13 PM
thought it might have been something like that. I am having a similar problem with the wire harness on my MAF, sometimes it's making good contact and sometimes it isn't and I think it might be one of the wires in the harness not making a solid connection all the time anymore and I have to be careful when I touch it, but if you wiggle the wires and get them in the right spot it will work just fine again.

G.I.Ceo
03-31-2011, 03:43 PM
Yeah that sounds to me like you either have a pinched wire or or possibly one that is cut.