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Stefalicious
10-19-2010, 02:05 PM
Well my car has been running a lil hot for the past 2 months. I changed the thermostat and it ran at the perfect temp for a few weeks then started to run hot again. I had a hose that was getting really soft and it finally got a hole in it on Saturday, so on the way to work I had to stop 3 times in a 15 min drive to work because it kept red lining.

So on my lunch break I brought it to Mcgee for an oil change, for them to see why its overheating, why the ABS light is on, if the starter is going bad, blah....blah...blah. Anyways, they change the hole and the gasket around the hose, do an Engine flush then they get to the oil change and theres water in the oil pan :banghead, they call me and say that they think the intake manifold gasket is broken and there 99.9% sure that thats what it is, so I said fix it.

Then they call me back again and say that it may also be a blown head :rage:. They drive it around for a while and it wont overheat at all, so they think that it was overheating because of the hose (but the hose didnt leak till sat and it was overheating before that). They also said that since it wasnt overheating anymore that I shouldnt worry about the water in the oil pan for the moment because they dont know if its the head or the manifold gasket right now and they dont want me to waste my money paying them to take it appart for nothing. So they basically said to just drive it till something else happens making my car a ticking time bomb, and I dont like that.


SOOOOOOOOO what do you guys think may be the cause of water in the oil pan??? And if my car isnt overheating and running fine should I worry about it?? And if I leave it as is what can water in the oil pan over time do to the rest of the Engine???? :iconfused

AaronGTR
10-19-2010, 08:02 PM
If there was coolant in the oil pan I definitely wouldn't keep driving it around! That can screw up the lubrication in your engine and you could spin a rod bearing or worse... and instead of a gasket fix you could end up needing the entire engine replaced!

It doesn't really sound like a head gasket to me, but it's still possible. Usually though with a head gasket you get white smoke out the exhaust, and it will overheat quickly and pretty much every time you drive it. If it was just a leak somewhere (like the hose or the LIM gasket itself) then it could overheat because the cooling system wouldn't hold pressure like it's supposed to which lowers the boiling point. Once the coolant boils it will overheat.

I would get the LIM gasket replaced then change the oil.

350rs
10-19-2010, 08:50 PM
Generally AAronns diagnosis is correct. But something strange happened to me ( not calling him wrong, just another instance), my head gaskets were out and i never noticed any smoke or anything out back. OR irregular heating other than it was getting a bit warm. but not overly fast. Only reason i knew is because of my plugs fouling out on cylinders 1 and 3 at the exact same time. sister cylinders both going at once? not much room for coincidence. ya know?

IF you are doing this job yourself and you have the extra cash and time.. pull the heads. have them machined, and replace the gaskets and bolts. Its minimal extra work, but a fair amount of extra money. Cost me just under 650 for the gaskets and machine work ( grinding valves, new seals, milling, blah blah blah) and about a week of 4 or 5 hours a night after work in 3 million degree heat.

Either way.. stop driving and at least replace that LIM gasket.

Stefalicious
10-19-2010, 09:22 PM
If there was coolant in the oil pan I definitely wouldn't keep driving it around! That can screw up the lubrication in your engine and you could spin a rod bearing or worse... and instead of a gasket fix you could end up needing the entire engine replaced!

It doesn't really sound like a head gasket to me, but it's still possible. Usually though with a head gasket you get white smoke out the exhaust, and it will overheat quickly and pretty much every time you drive it. If it was just a leak somewhere (like the hose or the LIM gasket itself) then it could overheat because the cooling system wouldn't hold pressure like it's supposed to which lowers the boiling point. Once the coolant boils it will overheat.

I would get the LIM gasket replaced then change the oil.
Well there was never smoke comeing out of the muffler, but it does overheat pretty quick and its everytime I drive it. Does it matter that the head gasket and the LIM were just replaced in 2007, can all that go bad again in just 3 years??
Generally AAronns diagnosis is correct. But something strange happened to me ( not calling him wrong, just another instance), my head gaskets were out and i never noticed any smoke or anything out back. OR irregular heating other than it was getting a bit warm. but not overly fast. Only reason i knew is because of my plugs fouling out on cylinders 1 and 3 at the exact same time. sister cylinders both going at once? not much room for coincidence. ya know?

IF you are doing this job yourself and you have the extra cash and time.. pull the heads. have them machined, and replace the gaskets and bolts. Its minimal extra work, but a fair amount of extra money. Cost me just under 650 for the gaskets and machine work ( grinding valves, new seals, milling, blah blah blah) and about a week of 4 or 5 hours a night after work in 3 million degree heat.

Either way.. stop driving and at least replace that LIM gasket.

Im not going to drive it till I find out whats wrong with it, because if its just the LIM then thats a lot bettet then having to need a whole new Engine. I am bringing it to a friend of mines house tomorrow who is a mechanic and hes going to run a few tests on it himself to see which of the 2 problems it is. Although he did say that he thinks its the head not the LIM because he said that from the location of the LIM that water cant get into the oil pan, is that right??

01GPGT
10-20-2010, 12:19 AM
If there was coolant in the oil pan I definitely wouldn't keep driving it around! That can screw up the lubrication in your engine and you could spin a rod bearing or worse... and instead of a gasket fix you could end up needing the entire engine replaced!


i can speak from experiance that's how i got my car so cheap. found out the low compression is due to a warped head (keep getting compretion gasses in the coolant)


and yes it could go bad in just three years could of been installed incorrectly or damged at install

[ChaosweaveR]
10-20-2010, 09:58 AM
It's possible the LIM has gone bad again.

Question is, did you use the revised metal LIM gaskets or the cheap, dinky plastic ones when it was first replaced?

I'm with Aaron, it sounds like an LIM issue, and it's been going on for quite awhile if it's leaking into the oil already.

Stefalicious
10-20-2010, 11:56 AM
i can speak from experiance that's how i got my car so cheap. found out the low compression is due to a warped head (keep getting compretion gasses in the coolant)


and yes it could go bad in just three years could of been installed incorrectly or damged at install
So basically both of those reasons would be THEM ****ing it up when they put it on?? Of course I cant prove it and they only have a warranty for a yr.
;1140096']It's possible the LIM has gone bad again.

Question is, did you use the revised metal LIM gaskets or the cheap, dinky plastic ones when it was first replaced?

I'm with Aaron, it sounds like an LIM issue, and it's been going on for quite awhile if it's leaking into the oil already.

Idk what they used the 1st time. Idk, my friend thinks its the head, he said that the location of the LIM wont allow water to get into the oil pan.

[ChaosweaveR]
10-20-2010, 12:00 PM
Not always true, coolant finds it's way into the oil, it'll mix and circulate with the oil, so of course if there's enough it's going to pool up in the oil pan while it cools.

AaronGTR
10-20-2010, 05:54 PM
So basically both of those reasons would be THEM ****ing it up when they put it on?? Of course I cant prove it and they only have a warranty for a yr.


Idk what they used the 1st time. Idk, my friend thinks its the head, he said that the location of the LIM wont allow water to get into the oil pan.


Your friend would be incorrect this time. Coolant travels between the cylinder heads and the LIM through the LIM gasket. The place where the gasket usually fails is at the lower corner where it can leak outside the engine, but it can also fail on the inside corner where it would dump coolant out in the lifter valley which drains directly back to the oil pan. It is VERY possible for the LIM to allow coolant to get in the oil.

As for reason for the failure, it's not necessarily that they did a bad job, although that is possible too since I've seen many shoddy LIM gasket repair jobs. It's also possible that the heads and/or LIM are warped though, so even with new gaskets they would fail again eventually anyway.


Tom has a good point too. There are many different symptoms of a head gasket failure, and warped heads could explain the LIM failing faster than normal as well. It could possibly be a head gasket AND LIM gasket failure both. Ask your friend if he can check the spark plugs and do a compression test. If he finds some funky looking plugs and the comp is low on any cylinders... probably gonna need the heads milled and new head gaskets and bolts.

Stefalicious
10-21-2010, 12:42 PM
Your friend would be incorrect this time. Coolant travels between the cylinder heads and the LIM through the LIM gasket. The place where the gasket usually fails is at the lower corner where it can leak outside the engine, but it can also fail on the inside corner where it would dump coolant out in the lifter valley which drains directly back to the oil pan. It is VERY possible for the LIM to allow coolant to get in the oil.

As for reason for the failure, it's not necessarily that they did a bad job, although that is possible too since I've seen many shoddy LIM gasket repair jobs. It's also possible that the heads and/or LIM are warped though, so even with new gaskets they would fail again eventually anyway.


Tom has a good point too. There are many different symptoms of a head gasket failure, and warped heads could explain the LIM failing faster than normal as well. It could possibly be a head gasket AND LIM gasket failure both. Ask your friend if he can check the spark plugs and do a compression test. If he finds some funky looking plugs and the comp is low on any cylinders... probably gonna need the heads milled and new head gaskets and bolts.

Hes going to do a compression test. But the guy at Mcgee said that after they replaced the hose they did a compression test and it held so idk. Jose is going to do another one though.

350rs
10-21-2010, 01:54 PM
If its holding compression then the head gaskets should be ok. Might get lucky and its only the LIM gasket.

Stefalicious
10-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Ya I think its deff the head. My friend is taking it apart now to be positive. :(

silverbulletO5
11-05-2010, 09:52 PM
These engines are known for having blown head gaskets, if your going to replace the LIM gaskets just take the two heads off and do the head gaskets while your at it! A little extra love will keep your girl happy for years to come.

AaronGTR
11-06-2010, 11:38 AM
^Actually, no it's not nearly as common as the LIM gasket problems.

lvemy3100
11-06-2010, 04:10 PM
And usually the heads only go after someone drives too long on a bad lim.

gearhead73
11-06-2010, 11:31 PM
that is true...same thing happend to my 73 Mustang(R.I.P.) and now to my 99 Ram

Stefalicious
11-09-2010, 08:47 PM
Well it eneded up being the LIM. Total cost for parts and labor only ran me about $170 so I got out pretty cheap. BUT they juss finished it last night and I have yet to drive it and see for myself how it is now.

GrandAmMe
11-09-2010, 10:03 PM
Well it eneded up being the LIM. Total cost for parts and labor only ran me about $170 so I got out pretty cheap. BUT they juss finished it last night and I have yet to drive it and see for myself how it is now.

$170? where is this garage? That has to be a typo. Most LIM jobs run 1000+

rocketfast123
11-09-2010, 10:40 PM
$170? where is this garage? That has to be a typo. Most LIM jobs run 1000+

$1000 i don't think so at most maybe $700.

[ChaosweaveR]
11-09-2010, 11:27 PM
$170? where is this garage? That has to be a typo. Most LIM jobs run 1000+

Had mine done for $250. ;)

01GPGT
11-09-2010, 11:32 PM
i need to check on the book time but i do not even think even at a dealer it would be 1,000

[ChaosweaveR]
11-09-2010, 11:53 PM
i need to check on the book time but i do not even think even at a dealer it would be 1,000

I called a local Pontiac dealer quoted me at $1,250 for an LIM repair when mine went bad. I lul'd heartily and hung up.

Jake
11-10-2010, 12:25 AM
;1141859']I called a local Pontiac dealer quoted me at $1,250 for an LIM repair when mine went bad. I lul'd heartily and hung up.

Well most dealerships are like $95-115 an hour labor and it is like an 8 hour job, so I can believe that.

;1141849']Had mine done for $250. ;)

This. When I had my LIM go on my old GA SE I had a backyard mechanic do it for $100 + parts of course. never leaked again.

01GPGT
11-10-2010, 01:29 AM
the hell??? at the ford dealer i work at we have changed LIM gaskets on 3400 GMs and never charged that much ever. we guessed at a book of 6.5 hrs.

we get them at action or trade then give a warrenty on them normaly a 30 day. we replace the LIM gasket before selling becuase of the known issues

Stefalicious
11-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Nope no typo. lol Parts cost me about $70 for everything and he only charged me $100 to do it. :) And he looked up the work time on it and he said it was 5.5 hours.

Stefalicious
11-12-2010, 10:42 AM
OHHHHHHHH and by the way where did you guys (if any of you) find the LIM gasket set in metal????? I went to Discount Auto Parts and asked for the metal set and they looked and looked and said they dont have anything in metal and never heard of it in metal. So I had to get that cheap ass plastic bullsh*t. :(

350rs
11-12-2010, 12:03 PM
Its Fel-Pro part number MS98003T. Seen here.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/FEL0/MS98003T.oap?year=2001&make=Pontiac&model=Grand%2BAM&vi=1374746&keyword=lower+intake+manifold+

Now i realize that Oreilly isnt everywhere ( use to work there..) but the part number should be the same throughout. Ive use it twice now. First time when the LIM gasket went out and second when i did the heads. I checked all over for ANY signs on failure on those gaskets when i tore the motor apart. They looked new still and had about 20k on them. Zero signs of any failure even thinking about starting up.

AaronGTR
11-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Yep, they are just the basic Fel-pro set. Better than factory though. Should be able to find them at a lot of places.

01GPGT
11-12-2010, 06:37 PM
that's the set i used

SharkAttack
11-13-2010, 05:33 AM
;1141849']Had mine done for $250. ;)

Had mine done for parts plus 2 24 packs of Miller Genuine Draft. :P My dad's friend is the head mechanic at the old pontiac shop.

Stefalicious
11-16-2010, 12:29 PM
So since I have been driving the car the temp guage has been at 220-230 at all times, its suppost to stay at 200. Well finally last night it overheated again so I had to stop. My friend came to look at it, as he opened the cap to the water reservoir the lower hose collapsed, so he thought that it was loosing water out of that hose causing it to overheat. So my friend Jose drove my car to his house while his brother Luis took me to the Discount and I bought another hose. Jose changed the hose, I started the car and began to pull out to go home and it overheated b4 I got out the driveway. SOOOOOOOOO now we have no clue whats wrong with it. The LIM was fixed, 2 bad hoses were changed and its STILLL overheating. The fans seem to be working fine, its holding water and the oil looks fine, WHAT COULD IT BE?? :(

Stefalicious
11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
Its Fel-Pro part number MS98003T. Seen here.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/FEL0/MS98003T.oap?year=2001&make=Pontiac&model=Grand%2BAM&vi=1374746&keyword=lower+intake+manifold+

Now i realize that Oreilly isnt everywhere ( use to work there..) but the part number should be the same throughout. Ive use it twice now. First time when the LIM gasket went out and second when i did the heads. I checked all over for ANY signs on failure on those gaskets when i tore the motor apart. They looked new still and had about 20k on them. Zero signs of any failure even thinking about starting up.

And thats a metal one, looks like the same exact pic they showed me at Discount auto parts but its plastic. :(

AaronGTR
11-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Well, technically the thermostat opens at 195 but that doesn't mean the temps are supposed to stay at 200. The coolant will only stay as cool as the radiator has capacity to keep it cool. If air temps are warm (as they tend to be here in FL) the car will run warmer than 200. The fans are not programmed to kick on until around 230 degrees, so anything between 200-230 is considered "normal".

If it was loosing coolant though, then there is still a problem of course. Possibly all the air did not get bled out of the system properly? That will cause it to overheat and boil easily. Also if the pressure cap on the coolant overflow tank is bad, or there is another place that is not holding pressure. The bottom hose collapsing probably just meant the coolant was low and when he opened the system and it cooled rapidly it created suction trying to pull coolant down into the system. I think it's probably one of the above problems, or the head gaskets really were bad and should have been replaced while doing everything else.

oldschoolguy
11-16-2010, 05:21 PM
so...since when did you become a mod? It's taken a long time for them to do that

AaronGTR
11-16-2010, 05:34 PM
Recently. Thanks for noticing. :) Just tryin' to help out around here.

Stefalicious
11-16-2010, 09:33 PM
Well, technically the thermostat opens at 195 but that doesn't mean the temps are supposed to stay at 200. The coolant will only stay as cool as the radiator has capacity to keep it cool. If air temps are warm (as they tend to be here in FL) the car will run warmer than 200. The fans are not programmed to kick on until around 230 degrees, so anything between 200-230 is considered "normal".

If it was loosing coolant though, then there is still a problem of course. Possibly all the air did not get bled out of the system properly? That will cause it to overheat and boil easily. Also if the pressure cap on the coolant overflow tank is bad, or there is another place that is not holding pressure. The bottom hose collapsing probably just meant the coolant was low and when he opened the system and it cooled rapidly it created suction trying to pull coolant down into the system. I think it's probably one of the above problems, or the head gaskets really were bad and should have been replaced while doing everything else.
Ya I think it may possibly be the air, I dont remember them bleeding it afterwards, but them again I was nit watching too closely. I was too busy trying not to throw up since my car JUST HAD to break down again in the middle of my stomach flu. :(
so...since when did you become a mod? It's taken a long time for them to do that
Because Aarons the bomb. :)

stonemason90
11-17-2010, 03:37 AM
i learned pretty quick that if you had popped the relief valve on the overflow cap it wont hold pressure and boil coolant out. since you overheated multiple times you might wanna throw the cap on just to be safe. their sealed systems meaning they rely on pressure. the open valve will allow the coolant to escape and not hold that pressure which will overheat the engine. as well as boil coolant off quickly. caps about $10- $15 something that if bleeding doesnt work to try.

oldschoolguy
11-17-2010, 10:31 AM
Recently. Thanks for noticing. :) Just tryin' to help out around here.



Because Aarons the bomb. :)

It was long overdue. Aaron is one of the only real information-contributing members here.
:applause:

SikMindz
11-17-2010, 02:36 PM
It was long overdue. Aaron is one of the only real information-contributing members here.
:applause:

I'm hurt. You even have me quoted in your sig.

I'll keep this in mind when it comes time to send out GAGT Xmas cards this year. ;crap

oldschoolguy
11-17-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm hurt. You even have me quoted in your sig.

I'll keep this in mind when it comes time to send out GAGT Xmas cards this year. ;crap

Aaron contributes information. You contribute to the lulz.

-posted off blackberry

01GPGT
11-17-2010, 09:32 PM
bleeding should do it. if not a good way (and easy way) to check to see if you have a bad head gasket is start the car with the coolant cap off and check to see if there are any bubles in the surge tank. and not little bubbles but decent sized ones


hope it's just air trapped in it

Stefalicious
11-30-2010, 04:25 PM
bleeding should do it. if not a good way (and easy way) to check to see if you have a bad head gasket is start the car with the coolant cap off and check to see if there are any bubles in the surge tank. and not little bubbles but decent sized ones


hope it's just air trapped in it

ya, well now they think its the radiator because one side of it will be hot and the other will be cool, a shop did a flush a few weeks ago but I guess its time for a new one. :(

And by the way im also in the process of getting a daily driver, the GA is not reliable. But I put too much time, money, blood, sweat and tears into it to throw it away. So its gonna be my show car and nothing else.

AaronGTR
11-30-2010, 04:36 PM
It could be reliable. It just needs to have everything fixed properly. Engine wise it's not that heavily modified that it shouldn't be reliable. It is still an old car though and you could be better off with something newer with less miles. Should be able to find something with better gas mileage at least. :)

Stefalicious
12-07-2010, 02:27 PM
It could be reliable. It just needs to have everything fixed properly. Engine wise it's not that heavily modified that it shouldn't be reliable. It is still an old car though and you could be better off with something newer with less miles. Should be able to find something with better gas mileage at least. :)

Well idk what else to do to make it run better then to redo to whole motor. We have now dont the LIM, 2 hoses, and thermostat and its still overheating. I bought a new radiator that came in yesterday, hopefully that will solve everything with no other problems, but with this GA who knows what else. The fans and the water pump seem to be working fine, so once the radiator is in and the problem persists there nothing I can think of to do.


I think I may have found my new DD, its a 2000 Mitsubishi Mirage with about 130,000 miles on it. It seems to drive great and the former owner was a mechanic, so I would assume he took care of it. Do any of you know any known problems with this car??

rocketfast123
12-07-2010, 04:12 PM
I think I may have found my new DD, its a 2000 Mitsubishi Mirage with about 130,000 miles on it. It seems to drive great and the former owner was a mechanic, so I would assume he took care of it. Do any of you know any known problems with this car??

It's a Mitsubishi.

01GPGT
12-07-2010, 06:40 PM
it is just as old as the GA. if you are looking for a replacement look for something from at least 2007

AaronGTR
12-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Oh gawd!... do NOT buy a Mitsubishi if you want something reliable! Especially not a mirage that is just as old as your grand am. Those things are plagued with more problems than your Pontiac. If all you are really after is reliability, look for a 4-5 year old toyota or honda. Or better yet a hyundai, 'cause it will still have 5 years of warranty left. ;)

Stefalicious
12-11-2010, 07:05 PM
it is just as old as the GA. if you are looking for a replacement look for something from at least 2007

Ya with a budget of $4,000 or less??? I think NOT.

Stefalicious
12-11-2010, 07:06 PM
Oh gawd!... do NOT buy a Mitsubishi if you want something reliable! Especially not a mirage that is just as old as your grand am. Those things are plagued with more problems than your Pontiac. If all you are really after is reliability, look for a 4-5 year old toyota or honda. Or better yet a hyundai, 'cause it will still have 5 years of warranty left. ;)

I really want a Hyundai Tiberon that I found, but its a stick. :(

dlineownzu4life
12-11-2010, 08:41 PM
great time to learn how to drive a manual

AaronGTR
12-12-2010, 08:40 AM
^This. I would definitely take a Hyundai Tiberon over a Mitsubishi Mirage.

Malibu369258
12-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Tiburon...

Stefalicious
12-14-2010, 12:20 PM
^This. I would definitely take a Hyundai Tiberon over a Mitsubishi Mirage.

I really wanted the Tiburon, BUT its a 97 with 160 something thousand miles. And right off the bat ill have to buy 4 new tires (there all bald) and it doesnt even come with a radio. But I guess if I got enough from the bank for the car loan I could buy that stuff with it. idk. Im also looking at a 2005 Dodge Neon with only 78,000 miles. Its blue booked for $5,500 and the girl is only asking $3,400. Shes the only owner and works at a Dodge dealership so its been takin care of. Neons are ugly as hell but it seems like a really good deal, at least its Orange. lol


My radiator has been put in, all that needs to be done is antifreeze added and a flush. Hope that solves everything. :(

Stefalicious
12-15-2010, 08:08 PM
Well the radiator didnt fix the problem, I picked up my car yesterday after it was finished and started to drive to my house (like 7 min away) and 5 min later the car overheated and I had to pull over. So obviously the radiator was a problem but not the overheating problem. Another one of my friends Chris came over and he went straight for the water pump, and boom......right behind the water pump it was soaked with the water from last night. So i dont give a sh*t what Jose says I now think it was the water pump all along. My friend Chris went and bought me a water pump and said Marry Christmas. SOOOOO hopefully THIS will now be the REAL problem.

AaronGTR
12-15-2010, 10:10 PM
That's kinda weird. Usually when the water pump leaks it comes out a weep hole on the bottom behind the pulley and runs down the front of the engine. Anything behind the water pump housing (which is part of the front cover) would be coming from the cylinder head/lower intake manifold area. Hopefully it is just the pump, but also I hope they put your engine back together right when they replaced the LIM gaskets.

Stefalicious
12-17-2010, 07:35 PM
That's kinda weird. Usually when the water pump leaks it comes out a weep hole on the bottom behind the pulley and runs down the front of the engine. Anything behind the water pump housing (which is part of the front cover) would be coming from the cylinder head/lower intake manifold area. Hopefully it is just the pump, but also I hope they put your engine back together right when they replaced the LIM gaskets.

Well the guy is a mechanic, he better know better. And I was there when he put it all back together, it looked like it all went back together they way it should.

Stefalicious
01-10-2011, 05:18 PM
Well to my extreme relief I think we found the problem. It was the water pump (Jose was wrong and hes the damn mechanic). My friend Chris helped me do the water pump the other day, I took it out on the town last night and for the 1st time in months it didnt overheat and stayed perfect at 200 the whole time.

I do have a question though, I have heard that if a belt is too tight that the tension on the pullys could possibly make the water pump go out and other things as well, I want to know if this is true??
The reason I ask is because while we were doing the water pump we had a hard time getting the belt on and off, a lot harder time then it should have been. After a little research we found out that the belt thats on there now is about 3 quarters of an inch shorter then the belt that is suppost to be on my car. I looked up some of my recent reciepts from the shop I usually get all my work done at (Tires Plus/McGee) and to my shock I never realised that both reciepts had totally different vehicles on them. One said it was a 99 Grand Prix SE 3.1L, and the other said it was a 99 Grand AM GT 2.4L DOHC (which are both TOTALLY wrong). I called them and asked what vehicle they had under my name in there records, they tell me a 99 Grand Prix SE. So now Im thinking that they put a belt on my car thats madde for another car and NOT MINE.
I think that I may have a case against them, I want them to replace my belt with the one thats for MY car, replace one of the pullys that is being worn down because the belt is too tight, AND (if it turns out that it can make the water pump go out) I think that they should compensate me for the price and labor of the water pump and also the LIM that I had to replace. The last time I went there I told them to find out what was makin my car overheat and I needed an oil change, they couldnt find out what was makin it overheat (which means they didnt even look at the water pump probably) and the oil change is how they found water in my oil. They refused to take appart my Engine to find the reason for the water in my oil and yet still charged me $30 for the oil change that was useless. THEN they checked my radiator and said it was fine, and decided to do an Engine flush. After the flush my radiator suddenly was blocked and I had to go buy another one for $120, (I think there flush is what pushed **** into the radiator to block it). So I also believe that they should reimburse my for the oil change and the flush ( the flush alone was $100).
Please tell me what yall think....do yall think I have a case, or a chance to get them to pay me back all the money I put into my car because of THERE mistake?

cutlsp
01-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Sadly places that do things like what happened to you tend to change hands far to often. which is why i never go to any places like that for maintance or repairs. They will most likely use the excuse of it was wear and tear on the vehicle and you didn't look at the receipts closely before signing off on the work. Honestly I hate to say it but I don't think you can get your money back from those guys. The better thing to do is to report them to the Better Business Bureau as well as leave a bad review of their shop on their website. As well as tell all your friends to never take their car's there. Your car is 12 years old or older sadly as cars get older they develop more problems. I hope you got your car fixed and do yourself a favor and don't take your car to shops like that again. The places like that are crooked well some aren't but most are.

Stefalicious
01-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Sadly places that do things like what happened to you tend to change hands far to often. which is why i never go to any places like that for maintance or repairs. They will most likely use the excuse of it was wear and tear on the vehicle and you didn't look at the receipts closely before signing off on the work. Honestly I hate to say it but I don't think you can get your money back from those guys. The better thing to do is to report them to the Better Business Bureau as well as leave a bad review of their shop on their website. As well as tell all your friends to never take their car's there. Your car is 12 years old or older sadly as cars get older they develop more problems. I hope you got your car fixed and do yourself a favor and don't take your car to shops like that again. The places like that are crooked well some aren't but most are.
As far as I know they have always had the same owner, there a big well known shop not a small family owned one. So I hope to get ahold of there corporate people and maybe ill get my way then, what gets me is I have been taking my car to them for 5 years and yet they STILL dont have my car in there system right, it makes no sence. I never blame people or try to get money/scam people for money but if they put the wrong belt on that lead to the water pump going out, which then made the car overheat, and then made my LIM Gasket bad they should have to pay for that. :(

rocketfast123
01-11-2011, 01:54 AM
I want them to replace my belt with the one thats for MY car,

Ok my ****head mood is coming on. :asshat

How about asking if you can buy your own parts and let them work on it. If you don't know a few good cuss words the belt is hard to get on a 3400. I cuss at my 2.4 and my moms 97 3100 (malibu same belt&route as a 3400) It can never be to tight because they have auto belt tensionerers.

I'm thinking they were showing off cuz you are a hot looking girl, with money, and a modded car that you don't know how to work on.

As for the Grand Prix thing, get over that, everybody use to call my car a grand prix.

That was just real talk, no means to piss you off. Just being real.

cutlsp
01-12-2011, 01:11 AM
As far as I know they have always had the same owner, there a big well known shop not a small family owned one. So I hope to get ahold of there corporate people and maybe ill get my way then, what gets me is I have been taking my car to them for 5 years and yet they STILL dont have my car in there system right, it makes no sence. I never blame people or try to get money/scam people for money but if they put the wrong belt on that lead to the water pump going out, which then made the car overheat, and then made my LIM Gasket bad they should have to pay for that. :(

I'm already telling you that they won't pay for the repairs you had to do on your car. Places like that while you may have taken your car there for 5 years. More then likely they had a kid fresh out of school working on your car. I mean sure they carry insurance for if their mechanics leave a drain plug loose or something like that. That is a safety concern. They however do try to get out of having to pay for wrong parts being put on cars. If you've never read the fine print at the bottom of the receipts you sign when you pick up your car. It basically says they are not responsible for anything else going wrong with your car and you accept the work they did. I've never worked in a shop where they didn't have you sign off on something before letting you take your car. My advice report it to the Better Business Bureau and find a new mechanic.

Stefalicious
01-12-2011, 07:07 PM
Ok my ****head mood is coming on. :asshat

How about asking if you can buy your own parts and let them work on it. If you don't know a few good cuss words the belt is hard to get on a 3400. I cuss at my 2.4 and my moms 97 3100 (malibu same belt&route as a 3400) It can never be to tight because they have auto belt tensionerers.

I'm thinking they were showing off cuz you are a hot looking girl, with money, and a modded car that you don't know how to work on.

As for the Grand Prix thing, get over that, everybody use to call my car a grand prix.

That was just real talk, no means to piss you off. Just being real.

Are you really serious right now, I dont give a damn what they think my car is, but if they put the wrong belt on my car because there blind and cant read that its a Grand AM not Prix then they better replace it with the right one AND they better also replace that one pulley thats damaged. At least that much. I have been taking my car there for 5 years, and if they dont have my right car in there system then theres a problem, its not some hillbilly backwoods shop, its a known big shop. After paying $350 for 2 pulleys and one belt I think I should expect them to have all the right parts. Sorry if u dont agree.

Stefalicious
01-12-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm already telling you that they won't pay for the repairs you had to do on your car. Places like that while you may have taken your car there for 5 years. More then likely they had a kid fresh out of school working on your car. I mean sure they carry insurance for if their mechanics leave a drain plug loose or something like that. That is a safety concern. They however do try to get out of having to pay for wrong parts being put on cars. If you've never read the fine print at the bottom of the receipts you sign when you pick up your car. It basically says they are not responsible for anything else going wrong with your car and you accept the work they did. I've never worked in a shop where they didn't have you sign off on something before letting you take your car. My advice report it to the Better Business Bureau and find a new mechanic.

Only fine print on the recipts say...and I quote " Total satisfaction beyond our customers expections is our goal". Well im not totally satisfied. lol. Well I will see what happens.

cutlsp
01-12-2011, 07:15 PM
well you might have some money coming to you then good luck.

rocketfast123
01-13-2011, 02:05 AM
1. Are you really serious right now

2.After paying $350 for 2 pulleys and one belt I think I should expect them to have all the right parts. Sorry if u dont agree.

1.Very

2. That's about almost what the dealer charged me to get my 2.4 back in timed

systdow666
01-13-2011, 06:33 AM
why is it every chevy v6 has gasket problem lol 3100 3400 3800 atleast the 4.3 is nice wish theyd throw that paperweight in a car !!!!

[ChaosweaveR]
01-13-2011, 08:24 AM
why is it every chevy v6 has gasket problem lol 3100 3400 3800 atleast the 4.3 is nice wish theyd throw that paperweight in a car !!!!

GM used a plastic LIM gasket design, obviously they never worked well. Use the updated metal Fel-Pro gaskets and you'll never have that issue again.

xxbackhillxx
01-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Sucks that your car has given you so much trouble. Glad to hear it's been taken care of for the most part. But ...

You assume too much.

(1) "He's a mechanic so he'll know how to _____." .... not everyone knows everything and half the "mechanics" I've ever spoken to knew very little. Case in point: When I bought my car I told them it pulled to the left and it needed an alignment before I took delivery. This is verbatim what the mechanic at the dealership said: "The alignment is that way to compensate for the crown of the road." It took everything I had not to laugh in his face.

(2) "They work at a dealer so the car was taken care of" ... I work at the world's largest technology services company and know d1ck about computers and technology. Plus the reader on my CD drive of my private computer has been broken for over a year now and I have no intention of repairing it.

(3) "He was a mechanic so the car was taken care of" ... It costs money to take care of a car. My uncle owns a collision shop and drives a rusted out van.


Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.

AaronGTR
01-13-2011, 04:45 PM
^ This.

That is why I learned how to fix my own cars. You can't trust anyone else to take care of your car as well as they would their own... unless you are Jay Leno and pay someone a butt load of money just to take care of your cars and that's ALL they do. lol Bottom line is, if it's not theirs they don't give a damn about it, even if you are paying them to fix it. And just because they have a mechanics certification doesn't mean they know anything. It just means they know how to take tests and paid the state for a license to fix cars.

stonemason90
01-13-2011, 11:13 PM
i just had a problem with a shop.... i took out the fuel tank and swapped out the sending unit tested it all made sure it worked right? well i took it to the shop they somehow broke the fuel pump and put 3 brand new fuel pumps in before they finally got it right. oh.... and they ripped a piece of trim off.... supposedly from scraping the snow off.... took them a month to do all this..... bottom line is do your own work cuz the shops dont care one bit about you or your car. these are the same guys that put a brand new motor in my car.

Stefalicious
01-14-2011, 02:43 PM
;1147643']GM used a plastic LIM gasket design, obviously they never worked well. Use the updated metal Fel-Pro gaskets and you'll never have that issue again.
What site do I go to to buy the metal one?? When I bought m last one Discount Auto said it was a metal one but it was the plastic one, next time I want to be sure to have the metal one.
Sucks that your car has given you so much trouble. Glad to hear it's been taken care of for the most part. But ...

You assume too much.

(1) "He's a mechanic so he'll know how to _____." .... not everyone knows everything and half the "mechanics" I've ever spoken to knew very little. Case in point: When I bought my car I told them it pulled to the left and it needed an alignment before I took delivery. This is verbatim what the mechanic at the dealership said: "The alignment is that way to compensate for the crown of the road." It took everything I had not to laugh in his face.

(2) "They work at a dealer so the car was taken care of" ... I work at the world's largest technology services company and know d1ck about computers and technology. Plus the reader on my CD drive of my private computer has been broken for over a year now and I have no intention of repairing it.

(3) "He was a mechanic so the car was taken care of" ... It costs money to take care of a car. My uncle owns a collision shop and drives a rusted out van.


Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
Ya I know, mechanics are known for not being trusted. I just hate feeling like I got screwed because they didnt pay attention. :(
^ This.

That is why I learned how to fix my own cars. You can't trust anyone else to take care of your car as well as they would their own... unless you are Jay Leno and pay someone a butt load of money just to take care of your cars and that's ALL they do. lol Bottom line is, if it's not theirs they don't give a damn about it, even if you are paying them to fix it. And just because they have a mechanics certification doesn't mean they know anything. It just means they know how to take tests and paid the state for a license to fix cars.
Well thats obvious to me now, I had a "mechanic" doing all the work (LIM, radiator, thermostat, and hoses) but he swore up and down that it wasnt the water pump. Then my friend Chris (who is not a so called mechanic or anything close) says its my water pump, changes it for me and it ended up being the water pump). I guess some mechanics dont even know the basics.
i just had a problem with a shop.... i took out the fuel tank and swapped out the sending unit tested it all made sure it worked right? well i took it to the shop they somehow broke the fuel pump and put 3 brand new fuel pumps in before they finally got it right. oh.... and they ripped a piece of trim off.... supposedly from scraping the snow off.... took them a month to do all this..... bottom line is do your own work cuz the shops dont care one bit about you or your car. these are the same guys that put a brand new motor in my car.
I wish that I didnt bring it to Mcgee for the pulleys and belt. One of my good friends said he would do it all for me, only problem is it would have taking him a few days to do it because parts had to be ordered and he had to go to work too. But I knew Mcgee would have it done within hours, and I needed it by the end of that day.

rocketfast123
01-14-2011, 03:55 PM
One of my good friends said he would do it all for me, only problem is it would have taking him a few days to do it because parts had to be ordered and he had to go to work too. But I knew Mcgee would have it done within hours, and I needed it by the end of that day.

Order? All parts are at the local part house, autozone, advance, and oreilly. And takes less than a hour to install.

Unless they were getting over price stuff like a friend of mine who spent $80 on a mishimoto thermostat. :duh:

AaronGTR
01-14-2011, 04:09 PM
Could always do overnight parts from Japan... spoon engine, and a motec exhaust. lol

Stefalicious
01-16-2011, 06:39 PM
Order? All parts are at the local part house, autozone, advance, and oreilly. And takes less than a hour to install.

Unless they were getting over price stuff like a friend of mine who spent $80 on a mishimoto thermostat. :duh:

We called an Advanced Auto parts and the pulley we needed they would have had to ordered.

01GPGT
01-16-2011, 09:50 PM
most mechanics drive vary beat up POS that barely run.


after you get paid flat rate you would understand why lol

i hate my job some times

cutlsp
01-17-2011, 01:23 PM
Hmmm my Grand am is the best car i've ever owned and its in very good condition. I am an ASE certified mechanic but i can say its true about mechanics owning and driving pos cars and trucks. I used to drive a 1983 chevy silverado suburban its power windows barely work then engine is on its last leg. The A/c i've fixed countless times but it never stays fixed. That truck has countless problems with it i honestly have a love hate relationship with the truck at times.

Stefalicious
01-18-2011, 02:17 PM
most mechanics drive vary beat up POS that barely run.


after you get paid flat rate you would understand why lol

i hate my job some times
And thats sad, I was looking into buying a Mitsubish Mirage a month ago and it had to be the biggest pos. I was younger then my car and it had coultless dents (in really strange places), it was completely scratched from bumper to bumper, the interior made me wanna puke, and the engine was knocking. A mechanic was the previous owner. lol
Hmmm my Grand am is the best car i've ever owned and its in very good condition..

I wish I could say the same. :( great condition, ****ty engine.

cutlsp
01-18-2011, 03:29 PM
lol You should see what I drove before my grand am lol It looks like its a pos but it runs and growls louder then the grand am can ever hope to do and sound mean. I didn't see a point in fixing up the body. Its straight just needs paint but I couldn't ever just park the car long enough to strip it and paint it. I have the grand am now but I'm too lazy to get out there and paint it lol Someday when I'm not beat from working on cars i'll start working on painting it lol

01GPGT
01-18-2011, 08:23 PM
looks are over rated it will just get gented or scratched lol

Stefalicious
01-22-2011, 08:18 PM
I took it to another mechanic, he looked over it for hours and re checked the thermostat and water pump tp make sure they were working right and they were. He did a pressure test and it held. Both fans seem to be working fine. He said that he thinks there is a crack between my cylinders or something like that. He said he cant find anything wrong with my car and he has had similar situations with outher 3.4L motors in the past and on the others it came out to be the same problem in the long run. So his professional opinion is to get another Engine or rebuild mine. Opinions??

speedfreak1
01-22-2011, 08:23 PM
how can you rebuild the block? if there is a crack between cylinders the block is junk. did he pressure test it with the engine at running temp?

01GPGT
01-23-2011, 01:32 AM
so it's STILL over heating? or is the guage just saying it's over heating?

really at this point i would almost think the sensor was suspect and use an info red thermo reader and see what the real temp was when the guage says it's over temp

xxbackhillxx
01-23-2011, 06:53 AM
Between a rebuild and a swap ... it would be hands down cheaper to swap in a lower mileage motor in, both initially and in the long run.

AaronGTR
01-23-2011, 08:29 AM
A crack in an iron block 3400 would be extremely rare. I've never seen or heard of it, although it is possible. Did anyone ever pull the heads and do the head gaskets? I don't remember you saying that anyone did. If you take the heads off, you should be able to check and see pretty easily if there is a crack. It should be visible to the eye, and there is a special dye you can use that makes tiny cracks show up also. But anyway, if there was a crack, it can be repaired sometimes on iron blocks by welding, depending on where the crack is, but really it's not worth trying. You'd just be better off with a new engine.

Actually at this point you might just want to look seriously into a 3500 swap. You'd get a newer more reliable motor with less miles and more HP, and it would drive like a brand new car. You would just have to get a few sensors and the 7x external crank sensor from WOT tech, and swap over some parts from your old engine, but basically it's a direct swap. I could give you a hand with it as well and take care of any PCM issues (doing a CASE learn etc). Something to think about...

Stefalicious
01-23-2011, 09:09 PM
how can you rebuild the block? if there is a crack between cylinders the block is junk. did he pressure test it with the engine at running temp?
Well not rebuild the block, but meaning replace anything thats not fixable and rebuilding the rest of the engine.
so it's STILL over heating? or is the guage just saying it's over heating?

really at this point i would almost think the sensor was suspect and use an info red thermo reader and see what the real temp was when the guage says it's over temp
Yes, its still over heating, it looses all the water and I can smell how hot it is so its deff not a sensor.
Between a rebuild and a swap ... it would be hands down cheaper to swap in a lower mileage motor in, both initially and in the long run.
Ya thats what Im thinking, I just want to start out from new and not both with an MORE problems, because I have had it with this engine.
A crack in an iron block 3400 would be extremely rare. I've never seen or heard of it, although it is possible. Did anyone ever pull the heads and do the head gaskets? I don't remember you saying that anyone did. If you take the heads off, you should be able to check and see pretty easily if there is a crack. It should be visible to the eye, and there is a special dye you can use that makes tiny cracks show up also. But anyway, if there was a crack, it can be repaired sometimes on iron blocks by welding, depending on where the crack is, but really it's not worth trying. You'd just be better off with a new engine.

Actually at this point you might just want to look seriously into a 3500 swap. You'd get a newer more reliable motor with less miles and more HP, and it would drive like a brand new car. You would just have to get a few sensors and the 7x external crank sensor from WOT tech, and swap over some parts from your old engine, but basically it's a direct swap. I could give you a hand with it as well and take care of any PCM issues (doing a CASE learn etc). Something to think about...
I asked the last mechanic if I could go bigger because I really dont wanna get another 3.4 and have the same problems 10years dow the road. He said nothing else will work with mine unless I get all new computers and something else. But if you know it will work id rather go that route. And I would apreciate ANY help, especially from you, I trust and respect your openion and you KNOW what you are talking about. I dont really care about more HP (although its a plus) but Id love a more reliable Engine. As far as getting a 3500, rebuilt are they around the same price as the 3.4 rebuilt or more?? And the other parts like the sensors, 7x external crank and whatever else I will need, how much does most of that stuff run??

If you could I could meet you somewhere where theres free WiFI and I can bring my laptop and you could help me look up everything and school me a bit. :)

As far as the crack, the guy said he has had 2 3.4s in the past (not on a GA) but on other cars with the same engine thats had the same symptoms and again he couldnt find anyting wrong with them till he took them appart and there was a crack in there that couldnt be detected by any test. He did do the pressure test and it held so he doesnt think its in the heads but it is somewhere. No one has takin the heads off or dont the had gaskets since 07 we have only done the LIM 2 months ago.

AaronGTR
01-23-2011, 09:38 PM
Well this is the external crank trigger from WOT-tech. http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/external-crank-trigger/prod_42.html It runs $155, and is required to run a 3500 in a car that originally had a 3400 because the internal crank position sensor ring on the crank shaft is different between the two. If you have this piece, then you can run the 3500 with no new computers or any of that garbage.

Surprisingly I just looked at the WOT tech home page as well, and it looks like Ben just moved to Pompano Beach, FL! lol I had no idea, now he's in FL too. I might have to go over there some day. Anyway...

It's a bit of a read, but there is a good thread on 60v6.com about 3500 swaps. http://www.60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/36647-3500-swap-questions
Basically you will need the timing cover (on the front of the engine) off your 3400 and bolt that onto the 3500. The 3500 doesn't use a 24x crank sensor on the crank pulley like your 3400 and doesn't have mounting holes for it. Using the 3400 front cover lets you mount that sensor, as well as re-use all your accessories like alternator, PS pump, water pump, etc. Also you can use the 3500 UIM, but it requires more modifications so it's easier to just use the 3400 UIM. You'll also re-use your fuel rail, injectors, throttle body, and you need an adapter for the throttle body (also from WOT-tech). Coolant sensor is also in the cylinder head so you have to extend some wires. That is almost everything I think (all the major stuff for sure). Everything pretty much bolts up to the 3500.

Rebuilding a 3500 shouldn't cost any more then a 3400, but you should be able to find a low miles 3500 pretty cheap out of a wrecked G6 or something, so it shouldn't need rebuilding. You just need the engine. Might even want the trans while you're at it, if the price is right. A low miles '05+ 4T45E tranny will shift a lot better than a '99. That depends on your budget though of course. Heck, I'd offer to do the swap for you myself, but I have two cars to fix right now myself. I'm also getting ready to move in the next couple months and things are getting pretty crazy round here. lol I'll help ya out as much as I can though. :thumbs:

01GPGT
01-24-2011, 12:08 AM
yeah at this point switching to a 3500 seems to be the best.

odd it's loosing coolant but holds pressure when being tested

rocketfast123
01-24-2011, 02:14 PM
I would like to know where. I'm thinking that metal hose that runs from the water pump housing to the heater core. It has a quick disconnect on it. It could be driping on the exhaust and burning off before it hits the ground. A "crack between cylinders" I don't buy that.

So no coolant in the oil, and its not blowing white smoke?

Stefalicious
01-24-2011, 02:58 PM
Well this is the external crank trigger from WOT-tech. http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/external-crank-trigger/prod_42.html It runs $155, and is required to run a 3500 in a car that originally had a 3400 because the internal crank position sensor ring on the crank shaft is different between the two. If you have this piece, then you can run the 3500 with no new computers or any of that garbage.

Surprisingly I just looked at the WOT tech home page as well, and it looks like Ben just moved to Pompano Beach, FL! lol I had no idea, now he's in FL too. I might have to go over there some day. Anyway...

It's a bit of a read, but there is a good thread on 60v6.com about 3500 swaps. http://www.60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/36647-3500-swap-questions
Basically you will need the timing cover (on the front of the engine) off your 3400 and bolt that onto the 3500. The 3500 doesn't use a 24x crank sensor on the crank pulley like your 3400 and doesn't have mounting holes for it. Using the 3400 front cover lets you mount that sensor, as well as re-use all your accessories like alternator, PS pump, water pump, etc. Also you can use the 3500 UIM, but it requires more modifications so it's easier to just use the 3400 UIM. You'll also re-use your fuel rail, injectors, throttle body, and you need an adapter for the throttle body (also from WOT-tech). Coolant sensor is also in the cylinder head so you have to extend some wires. That is almost everything I think (all the major stuff for sure). Everything pretty much bolts up to the 3500.

Rebuilding a 3500 shouldn't cost any more then a 3400, but you should be able to find a low miles 3500 pretty cheap out of a wrecked G6 or something, so it shouldn't need rebuilding. You just need the engine. Might even want the trans while you're at it, if the price is right. A low miles '05+ 4T45E tranny will shift a lot better than a '99. That depends on your budget though of course. Heck, I'd offer to do the swap for you myself, but I have two cars to fix right now myself. I'm also getting ready to move in the next couple months and things are getting pretty crazy round here. lol I'll help ya out as much as I can though. :thumbs:
Well thank you for all the advice. I would like to get a rebuilt or new 3500 with 0 miles on it if possible though. Do you have any auggestions on a wedsite that has motors for sale?? A few people have told me to get a Jasper Motor but they only have a 3 yr warranty and they are way more expensive. Other sites im finding have 5 or 7 year warrantys.
yeah at this point switching to a 3500 seems to be the best.

odd it's loosing coolant but holds pressure when being tested
I dont think the coolant is leaking from anywhere, I just think that its gettin so hot that its boiling out of the overflow hose on the water tank.
I would like to know where. I'm thinking that metal hose that runs from the water pump housing to the heater core. It has a quick disconnect on it. It could be driping on the exhaust and burning off before it hits the ground. A "crack between cylinders" I don't buy that.

So no coolant in the oil, and its not blowing white smoke?

No coolant in the oil and no smoke.

Stefalicious
01-24-2011, 03:22 PM
Does this include EVERYTHING I wouls need to do the 3500 swap??


http://www.milzymotorsports.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MMS&Product_Code=3500swap

cutlsp
01-24-2011, 04:11 PM
I think you have to ship the car to them to let them install it.....

Stefalicious
01-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Heres a cheap 3500 engine. But the trans is really expensive. But both of those together are less then the price of a 3.4 by itself.

http://www.engineandtransmissionworld.com/getquote.php
http://www.engineandtransmissionworld.com/getquote.php



Well those links arnt working, but if u go to search and type in 06 Pontiac G6 and then put the 3.5L engine in it comes up with a 3500 Engine with only
12k miles and its $995 with free shipping. Thats a great deal I think.

And there are 2 diff trans options, would it take the 3.29 ratio or the 3.05 ratio. They have both for the same price but one has a lot less miles on it then the other.

Stefalicious
01-24-2011, 04:12 PM
I think you have to ship the car to them to let them install it.....

O wow really. Thats not gonna happen. lol

AaronGTR
01-24-2011, 05:12 PM
Does this include EVERYTHING I wouls need to do the 3500 swap??


http://www.milzymotorsports.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MMS&Product_Code=3500swap


That's pretty much everything, but yeah.... that's including an engine. Kinda far to ship it from Ohio. Also he has a few parts in there you wouldn't need.

It was late last night and I wasn't thinking... I forgot if you re-use the 3400 upper intake manifold, then you don't need the throttle body adapter. You also don't need a MAP adapter or coil pack adapter. It will all bolt on like normal. That's really the easiest way to go.

Also I don't know why you want an engine with zero miles that bad. A 3500 with less and 30-40k on it out of a stock car will basically be a brand new engine. Heck, it will barely be broken in. lol You'd get a lot more out of the updated 4T45E transmission with less miles on it than the one in your car. Save the money on an engine rebuild and use it to try and get the newer tranny as well. That's what I would do!

cutlsp
01-24-2011, 06:19 PM
I agree with Aaron on the using the 3400 top end on a 3500 and the same transmission from the car that it comes from. Your car would perform basically like a brand new car. However if you plan to use that method make sure you get the heads rebuilt and milled by a good shop. I'm sure Aaron might know a good shop in Florida.

Stefalicious
01-24-2011, 07:57 PM
That's pretty much everything, but yeah.... that's including an engine. Kinda far to ship it from Ohio. Also he has a few parts in there you wouldn't need.

It was late last night and I wasn't thinking... I forgot if you re-use the 3400 upper intake manifold, then you don't need the throttle body adapter. You also don't need a MAP adapter or coil pack adapter. It will all bolt on like normal. That's really the easiest way to go.

Also I don't know why you want an engine with zero miles that bad. A 3500 with less and 30-40k on it out of a stock car will basically be a brand new engine. Heck, it will barely be broken in. lol You'd get a lot more out of the updated 4T45E transmission with less miles on it than the one in your car. Save the money on an engine rebuild and use it to try and get the newer tranny as well. That's what I would do!
Idk because I only drove my car 36k in 5 years, so that means if i get one ith o miles on it then I can drive it for the next 15 years without havnt te same problems again, and if it already had 30-40k on it then thats 5-6 years less I have to drive it without problems again. lol (thats if i get another 3.4) But I realllllyyyy want a 3500 now. :)

But what do you think about the one from the other site I put up?? They have a 3500 with only 12k miles and its $995 with free shipping and the tranny has 11k miles on it and its $560 with free shipping and both have a 3 yr warranty. :D
I agree with Aaron on the using the 3400 top end on a 3500 and the same transmission from the car that it comes from. Your car would perform basically like a brand new car. However if you plan to use that method make sure you get the heads rebuilt and milled by a good shop. I'm sure Aaron might know a good shop in Florida.
Well If i go through all the work of putting a 3500 in i would want it to show (i could use that as another huge plus at car shows). As far as getting the heads re done are you talking about the heads that are on mine now or the heads that are gonna be on my new engine??

cutlsp
01-24-2011, 08:18 PM
Well that was if you were putting the 3400 top end on the 3500 you buy. From what I have read you have to put the 3400 top end on the 3500 to make it work but I could be wrong.

AaronGTR
01-24-2011, 10:13 PM
You only need the 3400 upper intake manifold. That's it. The heads and lower intake would still be the 3500, which have a significant flow improvement over stock 3400 heads. No need to take them off and rebuild them either if they are low miles and nothing wrong with the engine.


Steph... I think that price is good on both those with that low a miles. Especially with free shipping! I'd go for it.

cutlsp
01-24-2011, 10:33 PM
Ah well I was getting confused with the various things I was reading but if both of those are that price with free shipping she should buy them. Just do the felpro metal gasket set on it before putting it in the car.

Stefalicious
01-25-2011, 11:11 AM
You only need the 3400 upper intake manifold. That's it. The heads and lower intake would still be the 3500, which have a significant flow improvement over stock 3400 heads. No need to take them off and rebuild them either if they are low miles and nothing wrong with the engine.


Steph... I think that price is good on both those with that low a miles. Especially with free shipping! I'd go for it.
I really wanna buy them so bad but the only problem is buying them then not finding anyone thats willing to do that much work. :(
Ah well I was getting confused with the various things I was reading but if both of those are that price with free shipping she should buy them. Just do the felpro metal gasket set on it before putting it in the car.

Id like to do that, but that just that much more labor I gotta pay someone to take it back appart. :(

WidbyJ
01-25-2011, 11:52 AM
Too bad you're in FL, I'd do a swap like that over a weekend with a little help. With an engine out of the car doing mani gaskets would be no big deal and the rest is really just remove and replace. There should be enough interested parties near you to do this as a 'forum fun' event...

AaronGTR
01-25-2011, 04:41 PM
Well, like I said I would do it but I wouldn't be able to do it for a while. 1) I don't have an engine hoist right now, and 2) I don't think my roommate would appreciate me doing something like that in his garage. Once I move, and (if) I have my own garage with enough room, then I could do it... but that won't be for a few months yet and I don't know how long you can wait to get it running. Plus it would be kinda expensive to tow it all the way here from Lakeland too. lol I'm assuming it won't make the trip itself if it's overheating that much. I would have to charge something to do it as well. I can't afford to do that much work for someone for free.

Stefalicious
01-25-2011, 05:09 PM
Too bad you're in FL, I'd do a swap like that over a weekend with a little help. With an engine out of the car doing mani gaskets would be no big deal and the rest is really just remove and replace. There should be enough interested parties near you to do this as a 'forum fun' event...
Ya theres really not too many people in my area from the Forum, and other then Aaron (who cant do it right now) i dont think anyone that is around here would know how to do it or help me with it anyways. :( I wish more of you were in Fl. lol
Well, like I said I would do it but I wouldn't be able to do it for a while. 1) I don't have an engine hoist right now, and 2) I don't think my roommate would appreciate me doing something like that in his garage. Once I move, and (if) I have my own garage with enough room, then I could do it... but that won't be for a few months yet and I don't know how long you can wait to get it running. Plus it would be kinda expensive to tow it all the way here from Lakeland too. lol I'm assuming it won't make the trip itself if it's overheating that much. I would have to charge something to do it as well. I can't afford to do that much work for someone for free.
Ya it deff wouldnt make it out of Lakeland much less to Tampa. lol I appreciate that you would be willing to help but I deff cant wait much longer. I havn been driving it now for about 4-5 months, I have been using my moms car sice she is on a LOA at work, but she will be going back soon and then I will be out of a ride. I was planning on buying another car for a DD but now everything I saved for a car has to go to a new Engine. :( Oh and I would deff pay you for labor, that is wayyyyy too much work for free. :)

cutlsp
01-25-2011, 07:42 PM
If only i lived closer i'd help you but sadly i can't afford to make a road trip like that. Try to find an engine out of a car that was bought more by older people. With how many 3400s were made I don't see a point in paying for a rebuild on the engine that costs more then say getting one from a junk yard. Just make sure they do at least the intake gaskets on it with the metal felpro ones.

Stefalicious
01-26-2011, 08:19 PM
If only i lived closer i'd help you but sadly i can't afford to make a road trip like that. Try to find an engine out of a car that was bought more by older people. With how many 3400s were made I don't see a point in paying for a rebuild on the engine that costs more then say getting one from a junk yard. Just make sure they do at least the intake gaskets on it with the metal felpro ones.
Thats sucks. :( lol But id want one rebuilt because if I get one with 0 miles then I can drive the car for the next 15-20 years till it has the same problem again, If I get one used with say 60-70k miles already one it then Ill only be able to drive it for about 5-8 years. Id rather pay the extra 600-700 and get the extra 10 years out of it. lol

Stefalicious
03-15-2011, 07:10 PM
Well I havnt been on lately but heres an update. Long story short I put in a rebuilt motor with 0 miles and a 3 yr warranty. I test drove it for the 1st time today with the new Engine and it seemed fine to me. But the mechanic is saying that the water isnt circulating right and thats its not holding pressure, which is causing it to still too hot (according to him). When I drove it today it stayed at a constant 200-208 even sitting at a light with or without the air on (which the air was working fine for cold and heat). He is insisting that that is still too high, BUT in the 5 years I have had the car 200-205 is normal for it. He thinks it needs to be under 200 like around 190-195 when driving and ONLY 200 at most when sitting. So my question is, what do all of your GAs temps run at or what do yall consider "normal", 200-205 seems about normal to me???

stewartfn18
03-15-2011, 07:13 PM
200-210 is normal

Stefalicious
03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
200-210 is normal

See thats what I thought, but this damn dude wants to argue with me sayin it shouldnt go over 200. Ok I feel better now. Thank you. :)

cutlsp
03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
200-210 is normal

yes mine runs at 210 constantly in the summer but then again mine is black lol

Trevor865
03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
mine sits at about 200 - 208, been like that everyday since ive had it for the past 3 years. maybe the dude doesnt know too much about G.A's.

Stefalicious
03-15-2011, 07:32 PM
mine sits at about 200 - 208, been like that everyday since ive had it for the past 3 years. maybe the dude doesnt know too much about G.A's.
Ya mine too, has been like that in the 5 years I have had mine. Hes now trying to blame my front bumper, sayin it doesnt let enough air flow through or some ****.
yes mine runs at 210 constantly in the summer but then again mine is black lol

What u tryin to say?? Balck is HAWT?? lol j/k

cutlsp
03-15-2011, 07:44 PM
lol at least it doesn't have leather in it yet but it will soon enough lol I might get a remote start alarm system put in it first though. I think its time to find a new mechanic lol your car sounds like its running at operating temps lol

AaronGTR
03-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Well I havnt been on lately but heres an update. Long story short I put in a rebuilt motor with 0 miles and a 3 yr warranty. I test drove it for the 1st time today with the new Engine and it seemed fine to me. But the mechanic is saying that the water isnt circulating right and thats its not holding pressure, which is causing it to still too hot (according to him). When I drove it today it stayed at a constant 200-208 even sitting at a light with or without the air on (which the air was working fine for cold and heat). He is insisting that that is still too high, BUT in the 5 years I have had the car 200-205 is normal for it. He thinks it needs to be under 200 like around 190-195 when driving and ONLY 200 at most when sitting. So my question is, what do all of your GAs temps run at or what do yall consider "normal", 200-205 seems about normal to me???


lol you need to stop talking to these so called "mechanics" when you have a question about your grand am and just call me. This guy has NO IDEA what he is talking about. The stock thermostat is a 195 degree and doesn't even fully open until 198-200. The low speed fans aren't even programmed to come on until 210 (unless the A/C is on) and the high speed fans don't come on until 230. Anything between 195-220 is totally normal for these cars. They are designed to run hot for emissions reasons. If you start hitting 230 and above on a regular basis, then you should worry.

[ChaosweaveR]
03-15-2011, 10:49 PM
Steph, where the hell do you find these idiots? lol

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 04:48 PM
lol at least it doesn't have leather in it yet but it will soon enough lol I might get a remote start alarm system put in it first though. I think its time to find a new mechanic lol your car sounds like its running at operating temps lol
lol thats sounds like a good plan you got there. :) Ya Im so over this mechanic.
lol you need to stop talking to these so called "mechanics" when you have a question about your grand am and just call me. This guy has NO IDEA what he is talking about. The stock thermostat is a 195 degree and doesn't even fully open until 198-200. The low speed fans aren't even programmed to come on until 210 (unless the A/C is on) and the high speed fans don't come on until 230. Anything between 195-220 is totally normal for these cars. They are designed to run hot for emissions reasons. If you start hitting 230 and above on a regular basis, then you should worry.
THANK YOU, I was waiting for ou to respond. Ill believe anything you say. lol. The mechanic has driving it home at night a few times to see hoiw its running since he put the new Engine in it, he said that even at night it will get up to 220. But I drove it yesterday in the middle of the day when it was hot and the highest it got was 210 sitting at a light. But mostly the whole time it stayed at 205. This guy keeps insisting that it should never hit 200 and should always run at 195 and only 200 at the most when sitting. And then another douch said that my heads can start warping at 220. Im juss looking at them and laughing in there face and they keep wanting to argue with me. So im picking it up tomorrow. They have replaced everything there it to replace the whole engine, the radiator, water pump, water tank, thermostat and hoses. So Its gotta be a normal temp. And now that they have replaced everything there sayin that its running "too hot" (at 205) because of my body kit bumper, well theres more hole in this front bumper then the stock one. lol And now there also saying that I dont have a air damn or something and thats the reason.
;1152530']Steph, where the hell do you find these idiots? lol

haha, well yall kept telling me to bring it to an actual shop and that these little shots are just as good as the big expensive ones.....so thats where I went. Its called Gary Thomsons Auto Repair. The owner (Gary) is the one thats been working on my car and hes the one that says 200-210 is still too hot. But hes a Ford guy so he dont know ****. But another guy there named Kevin used to work for GM and hes trying to say its too hot too. so idk

oldschoolguy
03-16-2011, 04:56 PM
I don't know what temp it runs at, but the gauge is always point straight up

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 05:05 PM
I don't know what temp it runs at, but the gauge is always point straight up

Thats right on 200, mine is usually on the next line thats 205.

AaronGTR
03-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Well, there is an air dam under the car (flat piece of plastic right under the radiator) and there is a plastic shroud that goes from behind the bumper at the top of the opening up to the top of the radiator. Those both help direct air to the radiator at speed and when the fans are running. If either one of those is missing it can have a marginal effect, but with a stock motor and all new cooling system it's not going to make it overheat. The temps you are running is fine.


I don't have the shroud in mine, because I wasn't able to retain it with the extra oil coolers I am using as well as my front bumper. However with thermostat and fan-on temps I have programmed it still runs at normal temps.

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Well, there is an air dam under the car (flat piece of plastic right under the radiator) and there is a plastic shroud that goes from behind the bumper at the top of the opening up to the top of the radiator. Those both help direct air to the radiator at speed and when the fans are running. If either one of those is missing it can have a marginal effect, but with a stock motor and all new cooling system it's not going to make it overheat. The temps you are running is fine.


I don't have the shroud in mine, because I wasn't able to retain it with the extra oil coolers I am using as well as my front bumper. However with thermostat and fan-on temps I have programmed it still runs at normal temps.
Im not sure what the shroud is, but I know for a fact that my air dam, I took that off when we changed my bumpers, I hated it because it stuck out like a sore thumb and it would scrape on everything. But what If I dont have the air dam or the shroud?? If I dont have either of the 2 will that make a huge difference??

Jake
03-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Mine never once when over 200, it is normal though.

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 05:30 PM
Oh and also I forgot to mention that they also were saying that the water wasnt circulating and that it also wasnt holding pressure and couldnt figure out y.

AaronGTR
03-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Im not sure what the shroud is, but I know for a fact that my air dam, I took that off when we changed my bumpers, I hated it because it stuck out like a sore thumb and it would scrape on everything. But what If I dont have the air dam or the shroud?? If I dont have either of the 2 will that make a huge difference??

Not a huge difference, but a little bit yes. The air dam creates pressure that forces air from under the car upward and the shroud helps direct it into the radiator. It does this most when the car is moving, like 40mph and up to freeway speeds. That is why the PCM is programmed not to run the fans at all if the car is going over a certain speed, unless the temps go above the high turn on point.


Oh and also I forgot to mention that they also were saying that the water wasnt circulating and that it also wasnt holding pressure and couldnt figure out y.

And they know this how? lol If the coolant wasn't circulating at all and the system wasn't holding pressure, two things would be happening. One, you would be venting coolant out the overflow bottle and your coolant would be getting low all the time. And two, the coolant would boil at a lower temperature, and with no circulation it would boil quite quickly so your car would overheat fast and the temp gauge would go through the roof.

Trust me, if your temp gauge is working normally and you aren't loosing coolant, then everything is working fine. I think they are just trying to get more money out of you. Here's an easy way to tell. When the temp gauge gets up to 200 go in the engine bay and lightly touch the radiator hose on the drivers side coming from the water neck on top of the engine. That is the side where the thermostat is and it doesn't open until 195. If that hose is hot, it means coolant is circulating. :thumbs:

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 05:34 PM
Mine never once when over 200, it is normal though.

Wow and mine has never run under 200. lol

Stefalicious
03-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Not a huge difference, but a little bit yes. The air dam creates pressure that forces air from under the car upward and the shroud helps direct it into the radiator. It does this most when the car is moving, like 40mph and up to freeway speeds. That is why the PCM is programmed not to run the fans at all if the car is going over a certain speed, unless the temps go above the high turn on point.

Well I need to find out what/where this shroud thing is and what it looks like so I can see if I have it. Id like to have at least one of them. lol

xxbackhillxx
03-17-2011, 08:24 AM
It's the black plastic attached to the bottom of the front bumper. A piece of it sticks down about 1.5 inches

Stefalicious
03-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Well i picked the car up today and everything is perfect. It was in the middle of the hot day in tons of traffic and a million lights, but it didnt go over 206 the whole time...I bout cried. :D Juss got done givin her a bath, she was green. lol

bricooper78
03-17-2011, 07:12 PM
woooo hoooo!!!

Stefalicious
03-22-2011, 02:16 PM
It's the black plastic attached to the bottom of the front bumper. A piece of it sticks down about 1.5 inches

Ummmm I think thats the air dam not the shroud. I know i dont have the air dam, at the time I changed bumpers I didnt know its purpose and i took it off because it was ugly and scraped on everything. lol