how low should i drop my grand am? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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anthony00
11-24-2010, 06:51 PM
its at stock height rite now on 20 inch rims with low pro tires..trying to figure out where i should go,how low it should go,and price range?

speedfreak1
11-24-2010, 06:56 PM
air ride..lol Not to sure how low you can drop it with 20s. most if not all guys here with 19s or bigger use air ride.

AaronGTR
11-24-2010, 08:22 PM
Definitely wouldn't go lower than an inch. Besides the fact that more than that throws off the alignment enough that it can not be fully corrected with the stock adjustment range, I'd also be worried about fender clearance with those wheels. One reason I don't recommend larger than 19" wheels on these cars (among others).

Eibachs are the best to go with since they offer the smallest drop of the performance springs available, or get an air system.

2000 GT Coupe
11-25-2010, 05:18 AM
Aaron I respect your knowledge, this however is one area where I differ with you.
I have the springtech springs they claim a 1.75 drop but after settling I believe they drop 2" and I did an alignment after the initial drop and then after settling and while close the alignment is just barely within spec.
And with a taller rim you need more of a drop to make it look right and not like its a jacked up 4x4. Though do make sure there will be no rubbing issues.
And I also agree if its for show air ride is way way better. I am unsure of the performance ability of air ride though.

AaronGTR
11-25-2010, 07:00 AM
Well even with my Eibachs my original alignment tech was barely able to get my car within factory specs. Also dozens of people here have used lower springs and ended up with negative camber that was out of spec and uncorrectable without camber bolts. The numbers just don't agree with what you are saying.

Also take into account the fact that the more you lower a strut suspension car, it changes the roll center of the suspension geometry and increases positive camber gain on the outside wheel during cornering. Basically over lowering makes the car actually under steer worse, which our cars already under steer terribly! And no one makes a roll center correction kit for us.

Add to that the fact no one makes a shortened strut for us that is actually meant to work with drop springs or valved for that stiff a spring, and people with super low springs are always bouncing off the bumpstops. I've ridden in GA's with this problem, and they used springs other than eibach. That is why I always recommend the smallest drop possible. It ruins the handling otherwise.

anthony00
11-25-2010, 09:24 AM
ok well aaron since you live kinda by me is there any certain place you went to? because i dont mind the drive to tampa its like 25 mins if that i mean unless 1 day you could meet up with me?

zukiracer19
11-25-2010, 09:24 AM
tha whole way to the ground make that bitch draaaaaaaaaag

anthony00
11-25-2010, 09:36 AM
nahh not that low i just wanna get rid of the whole 4x4 look

zukiracer19
11-25-2010, 11:06 AM
well lift it and throw 38s on it wtf u thinking. yeah what size rims are those 19s?

AaronGTR
11-25-2010, 11:27 AM
well lift it and throw 38s on it wtf u thinking. yeah what size rims are those 19s?

His first post. ;)

its at stock height rite now on 20 inch rims with low pro tires..trying to figure out where i should go,how low it should go,and price range?



ok well aaron since you live kinda by me is there any certain place you went to? because i dont mind the drive to tampa its like 25 mins if that i mean unless 1 day you could meet up with me?

For install or alignment? I do my own installs. For alignments, I don't really have any special recommendations. For a car with a reasonable drop and stock body, pretty much any place should be able to do it. For my car, I don't put a lot of miles on it and last time I can recall having it aligned was back in MI. They had to take my splitter off and use 2x4's to even be able to get it on the alignment rack 'cause the ramps are too steep on most and my bumper is only 4" off the ground. lol

Next time I need an alignment I am going to a shop over by the Tampa airport called Vortex Motorsports. They have an alignment rack set flush in the ground for setting up lowered/race cars. That's just me though, wouldn't be necessary for everyone.

anthony00
11-25-2010, 02:44 PM
would you do an install for me?

alexmorrison06
11-25-2010, 03:02 PM
air ride..lol Not to sure how low you can drop it with 20s. most if not all guys here with 19s or bigger use air ride.
im runnin air on 20's and have absolutley no rubbin issues

zukiracer19
11-25-2010, 05:11 PM
haha aaron yeah i guess i should start reading before i post hahahhahah i just seen big ass wheels and and the title so figured 38s are the way to go with a lift

AaronGTR
11-25-2010, 06:46 PM
would you do an install for me?


I could, but I won't be able to until early spring sometime. I'm actually doing springs and struts on stewartfn18's car on sunday, but this is my last weekend to work on cars for a while. Having surgery on my hand on wednesday and can't do any heavy lifting for 2 months. :(

bricooper78
11-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Having surgery on my hand on wednesday and can't do any heavy lifting for 2 months. :(

you can borrow my grandpa's favorite line: i have NO clue how i'll go to the bathroom during that time..


anyways why you having it operated on dude?

anthony00
11-25-2010, 08:40 PM
damn bro alrite well if i dont have it done by then ill let you kno..im hopefully gettin exhaust on it this week coming up..but ya what happen bro?

2000 GT Coupe
11-25-2010, 08:52 PM
anthony you got the tools, or place to do the work I am in jax might be able to help.

2000 GT Coupe
11-25-2010, 09:06 PM
Well even with my Eibachs my original alignment tech was barely able to get my car within factory specs. Also dozens of people here have used lower springs and ended up with negative camber that was out of spec and uncorrectable without camber bolts. The numbers just don't agree with what you are saying.

Also take into account the fact that the more you lower a strut suspension car, it changes the roll center of the suspension geometry and increases positive camber gain on the outside wheel during cornering. Basically over lowering makes the car actually under steer worse, which our cars already under steer terribly! And no one makes a roll center correction kit for us.

Add to that the fact no one makes a shortened strut for us that is actually meant to work with drop springs or valved for that stiff a spring, and people with super low springs are always bouncing off the bumpstops. I've ridden in GA's with this problem, and they used springs other than eibach. That is why I always recommend the smallest drop possible. It ruins the handling otherwise.

I can not speak for any other cars, I only know this one the first alignment I did there was lots of room for adjustment, the second one the right rear is maxed out as far as adjustment to bring it into spec. The others are close to maxed. Though it is within factory specs. As to understeer I have always felt this car has had terrible understeer, I do not think its any worse though only the trusty butt dyno to testify to that.

I am running the KYB GR2's I do wish there was a better option as you state, normal driving does not have a rough feel to it though.
Its actually smoother then many other cars I have ridden in or drove. Actually it is only a little behind my brothers 02 bmw 330ci with stock sport suspension.

I would have to ride with someone with the eibach's to compare it.

AaronGTR
11-25-2010, 11:00 PM
you can borrow my grandpa's favorite line: i have NO clue how i'll go to the bathroom during that time..


anyways why you having it operated on dude?



Continuing problems from a work injury over a year ago. This will be the 5th surgery. ;crap One more to go after that and hopefully they will be done. They are taking another bone graft out of my wrist and fusing the joint on the end of my ring finger, so since there will be bone healing.... yeah, no heavy manual labor so no working on cars.

edit: here's the old thread if you really wanna know what happened. As the title states though, don't check it out if you have a weak stomach. lol http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79891&highlight=squemish


Anyway about the understeer issue, it's not something most people would notice since they aren't normally driving at the limit.It would definitely show up during an autocross or track day. You can mask the problem somewhat with stickier tires, stiffer sway bars and springs, etc... once the cornering load increases enough to overcome those and make the car roll though, then it will show up. I've managed to tune mine to be fairly neutral in high speed corners, but tight low speed corners the front still slides. I'd love to try and get a roll center correction kit made someday but no idea how hard it would be. It would be something similar to what Whiteline Racing has for Subaru's, which basically amounts to a ball joint with a taller shaft on the end of the control arm. This relocates the control arm downward to the original angle it was at prior to lowering. Strut suspensions gain positive camber when compressed, and moving the control arm back down changes it's position in the arc of travel thereby lowering the camber gain under compression. You need some measurements and calculations though to figure out how tall to make the ball joint, and it depends on how far the car is dropped.

anthony00
11-26-2010, 09:39 AM
anthony you got the tools, or place to do the work I am in jax might be able to help.

what tools would you need? and i would have to still buy the springs i just dont kno which ones to go with and where to buy them..

2000 GT Coupe
11-26-2010, 10:46 AM
what tools would you need? and i would have to still buy the springs i just dont kno which ones to go with and where to buy them..

obviously a jack and stands, spring compressor misc wrenches and sockets, I have an electric impact and std impact sockets, metric impact sockets would be a plus.
I have a travel set of misc wrenches and sockets that is usually complete enough. though it is missing 16-17mm and it only goes up to 21mm I think.
I have a very nice low profile hydro floor jack and jack stands however I only have a drive way to do the work in.

anthony00
11-26-2010, 07:12 PM
oh ok well i have a jack and stands and if u did come down here i have my garage but its however you want to do it..i mean im still trying 2 figure out where to get the springs and struts where did you get yours?

AaronGTR
11-27-2010, 09:29 AM
Can't go wrong with partsforyoucar.com. That's where I got mine from originally. You can find them on Ebay too, but the cost difference after shipping and everything is only $5-15 on average, and at least with PFYC you know you will get good customer service and fast shipping. Plus it's nice to support our site sponsors. ;)

2000 GT Coupe
11-27-2010, 02:01 PM
oh ok well i have a jack and stands and if u did come down here i have my garage but its however you want to do it..i mean im still trying 2 figure out where to get the springs and struts where did you get yours?

Can't go wrong with partsforyoucar.com. That's where I got mine from originally. You can find them on Ebay too, but the cost difference after shipping and everything is only $5-15 on average, and at least with PFYC you know you will get good customer service and fast shipping. Plus it's nice to support our site sponsors. ;)

I agree with Aaron, I got mine from canuc racing, but i am using the very low springs, for struts I got from mp racing another site sponser.

You tell me a time when you can do it and make sure you have the tools and I will let you know if it works for me. Its not a difficult job I think the most difficult is if the nuts and bolts are rusted.
Aaron I dont have a spring compressor for this what is the easiest one you know of.

AaronGTR
11-27-2010, 06:31 PM
To do it really in a decent time frame, I'd say you need an air impact. Makes it a lot easier. All the nuts/bolts are metric too so you need a metric socket set. Big hammer and a pin to knock out the lower strut bolts. Once the whole assembly is out of the car you can use outside spring compressors. I have a craftsmen set I use. You might be able to rent some from advance auto or another parts store, not sure what they have. I've rented other tools from them before.

It's easier to use the spring compressors with an impact too. You can do it by hand with a rachet but you'll get tired really fast doing four of them. heh ;) Then it's just a matter of taking them apart, transferring over any hardware you are going to re-use, putting the new ones together, and putting them back in the car. I'll clock myself tomorrow and see how long it takes to do David's car.

Like I said, I have no idea what your time frame is for getting them and getting them installed. Maybe you guys could use my garage if you need to, even if I'm unable to help yet. It is a bit of a drive though just FYI... about 3 1/4 hours from Jacksonville to Springhill and another 45 minutes to here according to mapquest.

2000 GT Coupe
11-27-2010, 07:03 PM
To do it really in a decent time frame, I'd say you need an air impact. Makes it a lot easier. All the nuts/bolts are metric too so you need a metric socket set. Big hammer and a pin to knock out the lower strut bolts. Once the whole assembly is out of the car you can use outside spring compressors. I have a craftsmen set I use. You might be able to rent some from advance auto or another parts store, not sure what they have. I've rented other tools from them before.

It's easier to use the spring compressors with an impact too. You can do it by hand with a rachet but you'll get tired really fast doing four of them. heh ;) Then it's just a matter of taking them apart, transferring over any hardware you are going to re-use, putting the new ones together, and putting them back in the car. I'll clock myself tomorrow and see how long it takes to do David's car.

Like I said, I have no idea what your time frame is for getting them and getting them installed. Maybe you guys could use my garage if you need to, even if I'm unable to help yet. It is a bit of a drive though just FYI... about 3 1/4 hours from Jacksonville to Springhill and another 45 minutes to here according to mapquest.
The drive does not bother me, maybe a bit for gas would be nice thats not really a problem
I have an electric impact, very handy if air is not available mine is just about as strong as the better air ones out there. I agree metric impacts sockets necessary
I agree about using the impact for the spring compressor too.:applause:

Jake
11-27-2010, 08:25 PM
2 da flo'

anthony00
11-29-2010, 11:13 AM
To do it really in a decent time frame, I'd say you need an air impact. Makes it a lot easier. All the nuts/bolts are metric too so you need a metric socket set. Big hammer and a pin to knock out the lower strut bolts. Once the whole assembly is out of the car you can use outside spring compressors. I have a craftsmen set I use. You might be able to rent some from advance auto or another parts store, not sure what they have. I've rented other tools from them before.

It's easier to use the spring compressors with an impact too. You can do it by hand with a rachet but you'll get tired really fast doing four of them. heh ;) Then it's just a matter of taking them apart, transferring over any hardware you are going to re-use, putting the new ones together, and putting them back in the car. I'll clock myself tomorrow and see how long it takes to do David's car.

Like I said, I have no idea what your time frame is for getting them and getting them installed. Maybe you guys could use my garage if you need to, even if I'm unable to help yet. It is a bit of a drive though just FYI... about 3 1/4 hours from Jacksonville to Springhill and another 45 minutes to here according to mapquest.

the drive isnt going to bother me either i just have to order the springs and struts and whenever your free after i get them in then it will be fine with me so im going to look at the site sponsors

AaronGTR
11-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Finished David's spring/strut install sunday and everything went smooth. Took a little under 6 hours but we also had to get some new front strut mounts and fixed a few problems with his rear STB and his horn too, so those added some time. Probably a 3-4 hour job for just the drop.

gtjoshua1
12-01-2010, 08:56 PM
Look bro if you got the money bag it then.

AaronGTR
12-02-2010, 06:26 AM
Look bro if you got the money bag it then.

That depends on what he wants. It's a good option if he just wants to be able to drop it for car shows and raise it for driving. Air ride doesn't handle as good though, so if he's looking for performance he'll want proper drop springs. Right parts for the right use. ;)