DHP won't do a crank relearn. [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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G.I.Ceo
12-11-2010, 12:12 PM
So I am new to this DHP and have looked everywhere for this answer with no luck. I know that I am reaching for a answer to this question on this forum but I know you guys have DHP's still. So I tried to do a crank relearn procedure but it won't let me do it. I keep getting a message that says something like faulty diagnostics and then quits. Any idea on how to get this to work or what that message means?

AaronGTR
12-11-2010, 12:40 PM
Can you type out the exact message?

Only time it won't do a CASE learn for me is when the it's already been done and the crank position data is already in the PCM memory. Then it just comes up with a message saying it's not required. Never had any other issues with it.

Does everything else work? It's connecting to the PCM properly and you can read the PCM info and connect with the scanner and everything?

G.I.Ceo
12-13-2010, 04:45 PM
Can you type out the exact message?

Only time it won't do a CASE learn for me is when the it's already been done and the crank position data is already in the PCM memory. Then it just comes up with a message saying it's not required. Never had any other issues with it.

Does everything else work? It's connecting to the PCM properly and you can read the PCM info and connect with the scanner and everything?This is the message I get when I try to do the relearn:
Starting CASE Learn Test.
Vehicle = User reports Engine running.
E-brake = User Engaged.
Brake Pedal = User Depressed
A/C = User Disabled.
Send PCM CASE Enabled Command = Test Failed, Exceeded Limits.
Reason : Reason : Diagnostic faults are currently active.

AaronGTR
12-13-2010, 04:48 PM
Ah ok, I think it's trying to tell you that you have some DTC codes set in the PCM. It probably won't do the CASE learn until they are cleared. Better check out those codes first.

G.I.Ceo
12-13-2010, 04:51 PM
Well one code is the X24 sensor itself and the other is oil pressure. The oil pressure is because I have a oil cap filter so I will reinstall the oil cap and try and do the relearn again. Is there a way to shut the code off for the oil cap filter? The code is 1189. I even tried clearing the codes and doing the relearn again but it won't let me.

AaronGTR
12-13-2010, 05:01 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about by "oil cap filter". I do know grandm ams don't actually have an oil pressure sensor. They only have a switch that grounds out if the pressure drops below 5psi while the engine is running. Usually it just turns on a dummy light on the gauge cluster. Some cars it will set a code too. For instance, my PCM doesn't even have code 1189 in it and it's not in my service manual either, but I've seen it set in other later model GA's. It should not set if the engine hasn't been started but sometimes it does... no idea why but you should be able to just clear it. The crank sensor code... well, that shouldn't set unless there is a problem with the sensor. It needs the reading from both crank sensors to perform the CASE learn, so if you clear it and it keeps coming back, I guess you need to diagnose the problem. ;)

G.I.Ceo
12-13-2010, 05:08 PM
The oil cap filter is a big filter made to go in place of the oil cap. You have to have them custom made. The x24 sensor does keep coming back even after I reset it. So I probably need to replace the x24 sensor before I do a case relearn then? If you remember reading one of my threads I installed a UDP and I have had a issue with that code ever since. I know I installed the sensor ring in it wrong and thats why I am trying to do the relearn. I know your going to say just to go back to stock on that pulley and I might just do that. Well I will take another stab at it and if I can't get it to do a relearn then I guess I am pulling the UDP and checking to see if I damaged that sensor.

AaronGTR
12-13-2010, 05:32 PM
Yep, yooooouuuu got it. :thumbs: Problem is the pulley and the sensor ring. If that is messed up and/or the sensor is damaged, then it won't read properly and it won't do a case learn. And it won't idle as well. And replacing your oil cap with a filter won't help either and is really really dumb. Get rid of that sh!t and put a normal oil cap on and make sure the rest of the PCV system is setup as stock. I'll bet it instantly runs better! ;)


And ditch the UDP and put the OEM harmonic damper back on while you're at it. It's there f or a reason and it will run better with it.

Malaclypse
12-13-2010, 05:33 PM
The oil cap filter is a big filter made to go in place of the oil cap. You have to have them custom made. The x24 sensor does keep coming back even after I reset it. So I probably need to replace the x24 sensor before I do a case relearn then? If you remember reading one of my threads I installed a UDP and I have had a issue with that code ever since. I know I installed the sensor ring in it wrong and thats why I am trying to do the relearn. I know your going to say just to go back to stock on that pulley and I might just do that. Well I will take another stab at it and if I can't get it to do a relearn then I guess I am pulling the UDP and checking to see if I damaged that sensor.

As for the filter you're taling about? Waste of money. These engines have two breather hoses on them. One to manifold vacuum from the PCV valve, the other to the intake ducting.

The 1189 for the oil pressure switch won't affect a CASE learn.

As for the UDP install... its possible you bent the reluctor ring or damage the sensor. Pull it off and check. You won't be able to perform a CASE learn if the 24x sensor reports to be faulty.

G.I.Ceo
12-13-2010, 06:59 PM
Yep, yooooouuuu got it. :thumbs: Problem is the pulley and the sensor ring. If that is messed up and/or the sensor is damaged, then it won't read properly and it won't do a case learn. And it won't idle as well. And replacing your oil cap with a filter won't help either and is really really dumb. Get rid of that sh!t and put a normal oil cap on and make sure the rest of the PCV system is setup as stock. I'll bet it instantly runs better! ;)


And ditch the UDP and put the OEM harmonic damper back on while you're at it. It's there f or a reason and it will run better with it. know your right but I hate to give it up. I thought about sending the pulley back to stock because of the issues I have had. I did get it to do a case relearn but then it timed out. Is the there a good stable version of the DHP software? Right now I am running 1_2_3D I think it is. I was told different versions of this do have a light bit of some issues. What version do you run?

As for the filter you're taling about? Waste of money. These engines have two breather hoses on them. One to manifold vacuum from the PCV valve, the other to the intake ducting.

The 1189 for the oil pressure switch won't affect a CASE learn.

As for the UDP install... its possible you bent the reluctor ring or damage the sensor. Pull it off and check. You won't be able to perform a CASE learn if the 24x sensor reports to be faulty.
I will check it out. I would do it tonight but it's winter in Ohio now and it's 8 degrees outside so I won't be going out as much. Boy I hate Ohio in the winter time. My wife and I plan on moving out of here in the next 2-3 years at most. I will keep you guys informed on the progress.

AaronGTR
12-14-2010, 08:58 AM
What version software you are running will not make a difference. I'm using the same version. The problem is your crank pulley/reluctor ring is F**Ked up and you can't get a sensor signal. it needs to be fixed for it to work. That's all there is too it, sorry.

G.I.Ceo
12-14-2010, 11:52 AM
What version software you are running will not make a difference. I'm using the same version. The problem is your crank pulley/reluctor ring is F**Ked up and you can't get a sensor signal. it needs to be fixed for it to work. That's all there is too it, sorry.

It's cool your just being honest and that's what I would hope for. I kind of figured that was the problem so I guess I will have to take a shot at pulling that out out again and redoing it. Not hard to do but it's like 10 degrees here right now.

AaronGTR
12-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Got any friends with a heated garage? Or a space you can rent? Worst comes to worst, might just have to have a shop do it. I know all about working in the cold... it sucks. But yeah, I think fixing that is the only way it's gonna work and run right.

G.I.Ceo
12-14-2010, 02:35 PM
I have a nice garage but I never insulated it and I don't have a salamander either. I think in the next week or two I am going to go pick one up so I can get some work done out there without freezing. I will plug away at it and see how it goes.

AaronGTR
12-14-2010, 05:39 PM
forced air kerosene heater (http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/mr-heater-portable-kerosene-forced-air-heater-p-32872.html?ref=42) :D

These things are awesome! They'll heat up a garage in a hurry. I have an old old model of those (brand isn't even made anymore). It doesn't have a thermostat and it's noisy, but still works.

G.I.Ceo
12-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Yeah that's what I am talking about the one I seen conects to a propane tank but works the same way. Thanks for that link because that is what I am looking for.

AaronGTR
12-14-2010, 05:53 PM
They have something similar at lowes for $199.

G.I.Ceo
12-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Hey do you by chance have any modded bin files I can get from you to work off of? Also the DTC code is 336. I might have damaged the sensor when I installed the pulley. Would a damaged ring also throw this code? I am going to take it apart and inspect the sensor.

AaronGTR
12-15-2010, 04:14 PM
Nope, none of my bin files would do you any good. But anyway...

DTC P0336 is crank position sensor performance. The PCM monitors the sensor signal and compares it to the 3X crank position and cam position signal. If the pulses don't match up it sets the code. The timing ring must have precise spacing and must be the correct distance from the sensor in order for the sensor to read correctly because it is a hall effect sensor, which basically means it is just a magnetic switch that opens and closes when iron goes by it.

So if the sensor ring is not seated properly or bent/damaged at all, yes that will definitely screw up the sensor operation. Of course the sensor itself can also go bad. I just had to replace the one on my grand prix and it had no visible damage on it. It just had 170k miles and went bad. If the sensor looks good, you can always try just putting a new harmonic damper with a new timing ring on it and see if that fixes the problem, but if it doesn't you'll have to pull it off again to replace the sensor. It's only $35-50 for a new sensor, so if it has high miles on it you might as well just get a new one.

G.I.Ceo
12-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Well I figured it was worth asking.

So I am going to pull out the sensor and probably the UDP. I hate to do it but it's the only way to fix it. When I installed the UDP pulley I wasnt even sure how far down I was suppose to tighten it either. SO maybe the ring and the sensor are not lined up close enough at all. I do have the Gm service manuals and even in those they werre not that clear on the deep of it.

I do have another harmonic balancer with a ring still attatched so I could try that and see if the code shuts off. I figured from the minute I installed it that I was probably going to have a issue because I did not know how far down to tighten the pulley. In the next fews days I will go take a crack at it and see what the issue is.

Thanks for the advice and help. Like I said you got to start some where and no one touches this car but me unless it's someone I can really trust.

AaronGTR
12-15-2010, 09:05 PM
Well, that could be a problem right there too. You are supposed to tighten the pulley down until it stops and the crank bolt bottoms out... IE it won't go down any further. ;) There is no set depth to stop at. Anyway I'd still put the stock harmonic damper back on and just avoid more problems down the road.

G.I.Ceo
12-15-2010, 09:19 PM
Well then I know its not all the way down. I am going to pick up a forced air heater so I can work in the horribly cold weather and start getting stuff cranked out over winter so I am ready for spring. Know I just have to get used to this DHP tuner so I can start tuning it too. I will let you know how it goes.